Go2Sleep Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Has WWE always used the same archetypes for their wrestlers and I never noticed? Rollins = Edge the opportunist who only wins when the odds are stacked super high in his favor Reigns = Cena, the superman who almost never loses Wyatt = Undertaker, the supernatural creepy dude who doesn't care about titles Ambrose = Foley, the unstable wildman who is strangely loveable but loses more then he wins Bryan = Steamboat, the superb technical wrestler who is just outside the top title picture Those are all pretty basic character models that have been around forever. If you take any given year, you can probably find guys occupying those roles, or ones that are similar. In the last 10-15 years or so, several guys have been each role (also don't forget another common one, the monster). Opportunist/Sleazebag: Rollins, Punk, Edge, JBL, HHH (early) Superman: Cena, HHH (later), Lesnar, Rock, Austin Supernatural: Wyatt, Kane, Taker, Boogeyman Unstable: Ambrose, Jeff Hardy, Orton, Flair, Foley Technical: Bryan, Michaels, Mysterio, Angle, Guerrero, Benoit Monster: Lesnar, Show, Henry, Kane, Umaga, Khali It's not just WWE either, you could probably pick any year out of the hat for any promotion and fill in the blanks, like let's say 1995 WCW Opportunist/Sleazebag: Flair, DDP Superman: Hogan, Sting Supernatural: Sullivan and friends Unstable: Savage, Pillman Technical: Anderson, Guerrero Monster: Vader, Giant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristobal Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Has WWE always used the same archetypes for their wrestlers and I never noticed? Rollins = Edge the opportunist who only wins when the odds are stacked super high in his favor = Heel Savage = Piper etc. Reigns = Cena, the superman who almost never loses Hogan, Warrior, Diesel Wyatt = Undertaker, the supernatural creepy dude who doesn't care about titles You could maybe throw in Papa Shango as a precursor, but really Taker's in kind of a class by himself, there. Ambrose = Foley, the unstable wildman who is strangely loveable but loses more then he wins Face Piper, Snuka... Bryan = Steamboat, the superb technical wrestler who is just outside the top title picture Backlund, Zbyzsko. Nothing new under the sun. EDIT: Beat me by seconds, you bastard. I find it funny that the only example we had in common was Hogan-as-superman, but yeah, that further proves the point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.K.o.S. Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 A match between two wrestlers is supposed to prove which of those two is the better wrestler. We were going to see a Lesnar-Reigns match, and after that finish, we still don't know who would win a Lesnar-Reigns match. That's why someone would have a problem with it IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glfpunk Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 I thought the purpose of it was to entertain me and Rollins running in and cleverly stealing the title was highly entertaining. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go2Sleep Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 A match between two wrestlers is supposed to prove which of those two is the better wrestler. We were going to see a Lesnar-Reigns match, and after that finish, we still don't know who would win a Lesnar-Reigns match. That's why someone would have a problem with it IMO. That's why it's so brilliant. You split one match no one was really excited about into at least two matches that have intrigue down the road. And all the heat for the delay falls on the top heel(s) in the company, as it should. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bink_winkleman Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Bray should have went over for reasons that have little to do with Bray (even though I still love him). Why? What are the reasons? I'm only recently back into this but Bray doesn't seem that interesting to me. And his matches don't seem to flow that well either for me personally. I don't think Bray should have won because I don't know what the plan for Taker is at 32 (though I would have loved a "losing streak at Mania" angle), but Bray could have gone over in a different way. The whole thing was amped as a Bray taking the mantle of head honcho supernatural wrestler dude from Taker. He could have lost the match and then, say, handed Bray the urn or drawn the symbol on Bray's foreheard with dust from it. Or done some really silly shit where for Taker to beat him, he had to somehow give over to Bray the ability to, uh...walk really slow to the ring and occasionally summon lightning by kneeling before the rocking chair. Or something. It wasn't a very good match, and I don't think it would have hurt the quality of it too much if a little hammy comic book stuff was thrown in at the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristobal Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 A match between two wrestlers is supposed to prove which of those two is the better wrestler. We were going to see a Lesnar-Reigns match, and after that finish, we still don't know who would win a Lesnar-Reigns match. That's why someone would have a problem with it IMO. That's why it's so brilliant. You split one match no one was really excited about into at least two matches that have intrigue down the road. And all the heat for the delay falls on the top heel(s) in the company, as it should. This. If the match "proved Reigns was the better wrestler", everyone would reject said proof and boo the shit out of it. If Lesnar won, then that big push for Reigns was at least half-wasted. Rollins cashing in was a much better option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 No dude because run-ins are terrible or something. Obviously being sarcastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.K.o.S. Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Sure, it puts them in a better spot for long-term booking, but it made that match worse. Agree to disagree, I guess. The replies sound like people weren't interested in the match or thought it was such a lose-lose situation that they wished it wasn't happening. If the idea of the match turned you off, then I can understand why you'd be fine with that finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsey Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Bray should have went over for reasons that have little to do with Bray (even though I still love him). Why? What are the reasons? I'm only recently back into this but Bray doesn't seem that interesting to me. And his matches don't seem to flow that well either for me personally. Because I love his promos and I love his matches. No reason to overcomplicate things. Though they fucked up big time by getting rid of the Family. I feel like Big Fresh and I are a serious minority around these parts. I dig the shit out of Bray. I think the issues I've had with him have been more the fault of the booking and less some sort of deficiency on his part. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgundy LaRue Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Sure, it puts them in a better spot for long-term booking, but it made that match worse. Agree to disagree, I guess. The replies sound like people weren't interested in the match or thought it was such a lose-lose situation that they wished it wasn't happening. If the idea of the match turned you off, then I can understand why you'd be fine with that finish. That's what it comes down to. Many assumed it would be a bad match, that Lesnar and Reigns wouldn't find a way to build it and add the right amount of psychology. Several tried to say that the match would likely be very good as long both men stuck to their strengths. But the naysayers weren't having it. Well, what do we know--it wasn't just a good match. It was a great match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristobal Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 I think there's a case that Bray's biggest problems have been booking, but they certainly aren't the only ones. I don't think he's brought it in the ring on a consistent basis, and his promos are getting old to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristobal Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Sure, it puts them in a better spot for long-term booking, but it made that match worse. Agree to disagree, I guess. The replies sound like people weren't interested in the match or thought it was such a lose-lose situation that they wished it wasn't happening. If the idea of the match turned you off, then I can understand why you'd be fine with that finish. That's what it comes down to. Many assumed it would be a bad match, that Lesnar and Reigns wouldn't find a way to build it and add the right amount of psychology. Several tried to say that the match would likely be very good as long both men stuck to their strengths. But the naysayers weren't having it. Well, what do we know--it wasn't just a good match. It was a great match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgundy LaRue Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 A crown and throne will do just fine. Put them in the mail. I'll expect them by Tuesday. And ice cream. And a kitty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristobal Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 I stopped paying attention and ate the cookie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorman Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Speaking of Bray, I absolutely loved the zombie scarecrow entrance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyWhioux Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Speaking of Bray, I absolutely loved the zombie scarecrow entrance. All other entrances were destined to be overshadowed by Rusev on a motherfucking TANK~! but yeah I really liked it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nice Guy Eddie Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Speaking of Bray, I absolutely loved the zombie scarecrow entrance. Harper and Rowan needed to be two of the scarecrows, then attack Taker. How hard would that have been to get right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 I'd like to see the Tank fight the Terminators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Sure, it puts them in a better spot for long-term booking, but it made that match worse. Agree to disagree, I guess. The replies sound like people weren't interested in the match or thought it was such a lose-lose situation that they wished it wasn't happening. If the idea of the match turned you off, then I can understand why you'd be fine with that finish. That's what it comes down to. Many assumed it would be a bad match, that Lesnar and Reigns wouldn't find a way to build it and add the right amount of psychology. Several tried to say that the match would likely be very good as long both men stuck to their strengths. But the naysayers weren't having it. Well, what do we know--it wasn't just a good match. It was a great match. yes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 If Brock had 5'ed and pinned Rollins, it would be the best finish ever. As it is that was a really stupid plan. He could have easily been crushed by Brock or Reigns and lost his shot. I think Rollins is more Peggy Hill than Edge. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenalysis Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 The idea I think was to win the title without having to pin Brock. Makes sense in that regard. Also, there's the whole time limit on the briefcase and Brock not showing up much, which was even mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nate Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 I think this highlighted for me the need for Cena to get another finisher. The AA nee FU was a response to Brock fucking MC Cena up, what, 10 years ago or some shit, and Cena coming back with a move similar to the F-5, that he named after a rap lyric? I miss heel rapper Cena. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristobal Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 ...uh, "FU" was not a rap lyric... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCM Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 They went into this show with a chance to make Rusev, Bray, and Reigns. They came out of the show having made none of those guys, and only Lesnar feeling like a bigger deal than he was before. Rollins got a chicken shit win, had his credibility buried by Heyman on Raw, and is surrounded by people with go away heat. The Rollins cash in was just a get out of jail free card for the booking because they didn't want Reigns or Brock suffering a clean loss. The second match on Mania is now a ppv main event? lol Taking Lana away from Rusev and jobbing him to Cena kills him dead. Bray could've been fully rehabbed with a win over Taker, but now I'm not sure it can ever be done. I won't even get into what they did to Sting, and booking Reigns right back to the stuff people hated before Mania. Coming out of this show we have HHH, Big Show, Orton, Cena, Taker all looking strong yeah that makes me real fucking excited for the future. Oh and Bryan won a belt they don't give a shit about, but temporarily pretended they did to try and appease his fans. Just look at how Bryan is elevating the title losing by count out in his second match as champ. Best show ever lol 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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