bink_winkleman Posted March 7, 2014 Posted March 7, 2014 Petey is 100% correct... I don't mean to get all Masked Man there, but it seems like wrestling is a little more hipster nerd than it used to be. I mean, shit...half the bartenders here in town look like Daniel Bryan or CM Punk. I agree with all of this. My college students are more plugged into this stuff then they were just three or four years ago. Wrestling has definitely been folded into the comic book/video game demographic, where MMA's target audience is more of the jock/tough guy crowd. Hell, you could maybe argue that the reason no one gives a shit about Orton/Batista is because most of the kinds of people that find them interesting are watching MMA, where your Bryan/Punk contingent are the trendy nerd crowd watching wrestling. At least with maybe the 16+ crowd - kids are a different thing entirely.
T.Rex-n-effeckx Posted March 7, 2014 Posted March 7, 2014 On an otherwise unremarkable day-to-day basis? Of course. But a 10% jump in a single session? Unlikely. International Fight League 1
odessasteps Posted March 7, 2014 Author Posted March 7, 2014 Petey is 100% correct From my purely empirical experience, people have a lot more awareness of what's going on with wrestling than they did, like, the mid-2000s. Stuff like the Rock coming, the somewhat Internet/nerd pop-culture crossover of guys like Punk/Jericho/Cena, the increasing ubiquity of the WWE-brand all over things...I'm not saying a boon period is imminent but there's definitely more awareness of what's going on, I think. A really interesting question is is this the first time that wrestling has been folded into nerd pop-culture? In the 80s it was little kids, the 90s was that more testosterone-driven teen male jock thing (basically, the idea was mean-spirited dumb males), now, it seems, that being a hardcore wrestling fan is seen as being akin to like really being into Walking Dead, or Game of Thrones or any sort of accepted nerd-fandom. I mean, I was at Pensacon here in town a few weeks back and along with all the comic book guys and Star Wars dudes, there was a pretty big line for Honky Tonk, the Hammer and the Barber. I don't mean to get all Masked Man there, but it seems like wrestling is a little more hipster nerd than it used to be. I mean, shit...half the bartenders here in town look like Daniel Bryan or CM Punk. A lot of the Chikara audience seems to fit the "hipster" stereotype, based on the crowds: horn rim glasses, flannel shirts, ironic t-shirts... I would say the middle-age fan that left with the end of Wcw/ecw era in early 2000s should be a target for the network.
BEN! Posted March 8, 2014 Posted March 8, 2014 I would think the media acting as pseudo-hype men for WWE when covering their new tv deal and the Network has affected the stock price more than neckbeards becoming more prevalent.
Elsalvajeloco Posted March 8, 2014 Posted March 8, 2014 Petey is 100% correct... I don't mean to get all Masked Man there, but it seems like wrestling is a little more hipster nerd than it used to be. I mean, shit...half the bartenders here in town look like Daniel Bryan or CM Punk. I agree with all of this. My college students are more plugged into this stuff then they were just three or four years ago. Wrestling has definitely been folded into the comic book/video game demographic, where MMA's target audience is more of the jock/tough guy crowd. Hell, you could maybe argue that the reason no one gives a shit about Orton/Batista is because most of the kinds of people that find them interesting are watching MMA, where your Bryan/Punk contingent are the trendy nerd crowd watching wrestling. At least with maybe the 16+ crowd - kids are a different thing entirely. Yeah, about this... That just isn't true. I follow just about every major MMA and boxing personality (from the age of 20 to Meltzer's age) except for a few guys who are just unbearable. Roughly 80% of them tweet about pro wrestling (WWE at least) in some shape or form. And guess what? There is probably about three identifiable muscles combined on all of them. The ONLY reason, other than Observer radio and following the DVDVR account on Twitter, I know what's going on in current WWE programs is through those guys. I've seen more tweets on the network than Fight Pass. Guys like Jeremy Botter are "live" blogging WrestleWar 92 and watching other stuff back-to-back-to-back. These ain't jocks or tough guys in any sense of the word. The people who watch MMA are more likely to watch pro wrestling (if they ever stopped completely in the first place) and not stick and ball sports. They just stopped buying the PPVs that WWE put out. The WWE network, from what I've heard on different MMA podcasts and from social media, is more applicable to their taste than spending more money on PPVs. On an otherwise unremarkable day-to-day basis? Of course. But a 10% jump in a single session? Unlikely. International Fight League Dude, they had Jazze Pha. Jazze Pha. Need I say more?
Tromatagon Posted March 8, 2014 Posted March 8, 2014 PWG fans are more like hipsters. Chikara fans are mostly nerds I mean I say this with love but come on Hipsters aren't going to look for two thousand page hidden PDFs inside a secretly beached whale's dickhole
Antacular Posted March 8, 2014 Posted March 8, 2014 I would think the media acting as pseudo-hype men for WWE when covering their new tv deal and the Network has affected the stock price more than neckbeards becoming more prevalent. I've already made the Network subscribers numbers argument already, but even if they double what they need to break even (2M subscribers), it would only affect the bottom line marginally. The stocks rise is almost entirely due to TV contracts. But at close to $30, it's approaching Twitter-level valuations (AKA absurd). Basically they'd need to increase fees around 400-500% to bring its price back into reality. Don't see that happening, no matter how DVR-proof the programming is.
Fallacy! Posted March 8, 2014 Posted March 8, 2014 I don't know about this "WWE infiltrating the hipster lifestyle" thing. Did "hipsters" even exist 10 years ago? I think it's more likely that teens who started watching during the Attitude era are now mid-20's "hipsters" who still follow it from time to time. I wouldn't rack my brain trying to figure out who does and doesn't follow WWE. I know this much from my tiny sample size - I teach at a high school and coach the basketball team. Some of the guys on the team would talk about wrestling when The Rock came back, but you almost never hear a peep about it outside of that from them or any students. Only time in my four years there that a student on campus has worn a wrestling t-shirt was some dude randomly wearing an nWo shirt like two years ago. 1
EricR Posted March 8, 2014 Posted March 8, 2014 Hipsters have existed for longer than 10 years. Much longer. What's broadened is the definition of what a hipster is. Years ago it was listening to Nick Drake pre-Volkswagen ad or owning krautrock LPs. Now any nearsighted guy with black glasses gets called a hipster. 1
MORELOCK Posted March 8, 2014 Posted March 8, 2014 Kramer was called a "hipster doofus" on Seinfeld in 1993. No one knew what it meant then, and no one knows what it means now.
Ryan Posted March 8, 2014 Posted March 8, 2014 It's whatever you want your hatred to be directed at in the youth of modern times.
GoOnAndWalkItOut Posted March 8, 2014 Posted March 8, 2014 Hipster=Steve Urkle without the comedic timing and just a hint of irony.
Bustronaut Posted March 8, 2014 Posted March 8, 2014 Jesus, nerds. Hipsters have been around forever. The d-bags that people are currently labeling "hipsters" are actually one level removed from the true hipsters, who have moved on from the stupid bullshit that is now filtering into the mainstream.
Buy Me a Burrito Posted March 8, 2014 Posted March 8, 2014 Ever watch Girls on HBO? Those fucking people. 3
odessasteps Posted March 8, 2014 Author Posted March 8, 2014 Ever watch Girls on HBO? Those fucking people. Or Portlandia, which admittedly is, i think, a parody.
Tromatagon Posted March 8, 2014 Posted March 8, 2014 If it's a parody, that's completely lost on their hipster audience Give me five minutes of me taking you to one of the areas if LA they've gentrified and you people will know what a hipster is
piranesi Posted March 8, 2014 Posted March 8, 2014 The concept of hip has been around for a long-ass time. The term itself was coined back in like the 20s or 30s and meant basically the same thing already that it does now. And it has always had the same contradiction/problem. Which is that it begins as a distancing of oneself from mainstream culture, of looking for ways "out," of being an "outsider" but at some point becomes a means to get credibility itself and becoming an "insider." And so a subculture that begins from a real desire to undo the shallow habits and tropes of mass-market culture quickly turns into its own set of shallow habits and tropes. It's no worse now than it was in the 30s or the 50s or the 80s. It may be that the habits and tropes of hipness back then seem cooler to us now because...like, the past. But they were just as shallow in their own day. Unless you want to claim, as a friend of mine likes to when this comes up, that for the first time in modern US history, there is no counterculture at all. My reply to that is that if there is, we're probably too old to see it or recognize it. 2
Niners Fan in CT Posted March 8, 2014 Posted March 8, 2014 Can we just stop labeling people? Instead watch what stores they walk into at the mall. If they walk into Hot Topic then you know its someone you don't want anything to do with.
Niners Fan in CT Posted March 8, 2014 Posted March 8, 2014 I had no idea what Torrid was but it turns out Adrian Adonis shopped there.
Brian Fowler Posted March 8, 2014 Posted March 8, 2014 Dude, malls are dying. Hip people don't go to them.
Hollywood Cibernetico Posted March 8, 2014 Posted March 8, 2014 I invested in WWE when it was at 15. I tossed in more money when it went to 20. Why? Because I know that when company's are about to launch something huge that doesn't sound like a total dud and I KNOW FOR A FACT people will eat it up...I buy in. Plain and simple. WWE Network is a big deal for a ton of reason and its all been covered before so I am not going to go into any of it in this post. However, something else I considered was the fact that there have been rumblings for the last year or so about Zuffa wanting out of the UFC and looking for shoppers. Again, I don't know how much of that is rooted in fact but it got me thinking. With Vince and Dana being 'cool', I wouldn't be surprised if WWE put in a bid and Zuffa accepted. In my fantasy scenario the WWE network in 5 years would include: UFC, Strikeforce, Pride, WEC, WWE, ECW, WCW, and tons of other miscellaneous offerings (WCCW, SMW, WWE's movies, etc.) thus making it THE PRIMER FIGHT PACKAGE for any fight fan whether fictitious or otherwise. Again, just me over-thinking things and wishing for that awesomeness to happen and seeing that it could potentially happen (as UFC Pass is sucking ass and will have a long road ahead to overcome the security breach) it would yield big returns. So yeah, the network was a big thing for me and I guess for a lot of people. Also, Forbes releasing the information that WWE is worth 2.8 billion dollars and that Vince himself is worth 1.8 definitely got some eyes on the emerging stock. Any stock that goes from 10 dollars to 25 in the span of 6 months is something to start paying attention to.
Charlie M. Posted March 8, 2014 Posted March 8, 2014 Dude, malls are dying. Hip people don't go to them. Malls are retro. To paraphrase Stephen Colbert, one day people will be amazed that there will be a place where they can go and actually see the things they want to buy. It will astonish them. 1
Antacular Posted March 8, 2014 Posted March 8, 2014 I invested in WWE when it was at 15. I tossed in more money when it went to 20. Why? Because I know that when company's are about to launch something huge that doesn't sound like a total dud and I KNOW FOR A FACT people will eat it up...I buy in. Plain and simple. WWE Network is a big deal for a ton of reason and its all been covered before so I am not going to go into any of it in this post. However, something else I considered was the fact that there have been rumblings for the last year or so about Zuffa wanting out of the UFC and looking for shoppers. Again, I don't know how much of that is rooted in fact but it got me thinking. With Vince and Dana being 'cool', I wouldn't be surprised if WWE put in a bid and Zuffa accepted. In my fantasy scenario the WWE network in 5 years would include: UFC, Strikeforce, Pride, WEC, WWE, ECW, WCW, and tons of other miscellaneous offerings (WCCW, SMW, WWE's movies, etc.) thus making it THE PRIMER FIGHT PACKAGE for any fight fan whether fictitious or otherwise. I'm not even going to get into all the reasons why WWE buying UFC would suck so fucking much (aside from the historical precedents of the WBF to XFL which demonstrate that anything Vince has his hand on that isn't scripted generally blows [and even then, WWE Films much?]), but from a purely financial standpoint, WWE doesn't have the money. They have about $110M in cash and equivalents on the balance sheet, and assuming the UFC would sell for a slightly higher price than the WWE market value (Currently $2.2B), around $3B, that means that WWE would have to either finance the purchase by issuing more equity or via debt. Neither option is particularly viable, as WWE has had a shrinking equity base since 2006 (From 385M to 265M today), which means lenders would charge a particularly harsh interest rate on a loan of the size required to purchase UFC on top of the fact that they only average around $50Mish in free cash per year (or roughly 1.6% of the total purchase price, not exactly solid debt coverage) , and by issuing more shares for the purchase at $3Bish, it would pretty much dilute current equity holders by over HALF. Of course, at its current astronomical valuation, issuing more WWE stock for whatever reason would probably be a solid move, but to double the share count would send the stock plunging. Now, should Vince decide to basically sell his stake in WWE or use all of his shares as collateral for a personal loan to buy it, that's another story entirely. But regardless, it would suck. So it better not happen. 2
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