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2021 Puroresu General Discussion


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2 hours ago, Control said:

I don’t watch NJPW, so tell me, to regular viewers, does this belt stuff seem super dumb? 

It's super dumb, and catering to Western Fans that somehow think changing belts or title names is equal to the Fingerpoke of Doom.

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12 hours ago, Control said:

I don’t watch NJPW, so tell me, to regular viewers, does this belt stuff seem super dumb? 

It's even dumber than you think, probably. I tried to get back into watching NJPW over the last few weeks but even compared to my usual quibbles with NJPW's anti-hoss title scene, the multiple belts and long distance title shenanigans with Ospreay make the whole product feel illegitimate by association. Shingo on top has been on paper the best booking decision Gedo has made since Omega lost the belt and he's effectively sabotaged his own top guy by having him compete for status with two other dudes carrying fake titles around. 

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How am I just now finding out the old vets group in GLEAT of CIMA, Hayashi & Tanaka are called Coelacanths? That'd extremely good.

Watched some more All Japan (totally failed to upload that Runaway SUPLEX vs Evolution Match because YouTube wants me to verify my account (thanks for telling me that after I'd spent all afternoon uploading it) & I'm pretty sure I lost my phone number because I haven't used it as a phone for 18 months, will try again on Daily Motion), the 31/10 show from Korakuen.

Overall a real decent show with the worst match still being ***. Stand outs are the GAORA TV Title clash between Ishikawa & Irie, his GAORA reign seems to have rejuvenated Ishikawa slightly, the All Asia Tag Title battle between Lindaman & T-Hawk and the Aoyagi Brothers, Kento Miyahara vs Ryuki Honda in Honda's trial series 6th match, and a 6 man Tag with Dan Tamura teaming with Runaway SUPLEX against Koji Iwamoto, Jun Saito & Kaz Hayashi in his first All Japan match since the Wrestle-1 split 8 years ago.

I am very buoyant on AJPW right now, their group of young guys have a lot of potential, after some early concerns when Akiyama left the booking has been largely good, Suwama & Ishikawa look less broken than they had been in 2020, there's a lack of depth in the main event still but Yuma Aoyagi is growing into the upper midcard.

Still hate that they didn't put Astronauts in Real World Tag League though. 

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9 hours ago, Belgian_Waffle said:

It's even dumber than you think, probably. I tried to get back into watching NJPW over the last few weeks but even compared to my usual quibbles with NJPW's anti-hoss title scene, the multiple belts and long distance title shenanigans with Ospreay make the whole product feel illegitimate by association. Shingo on top has been on paper the best booking decision Gedo has made since Omega lost the belt and he's effectively sabotaged his own top guy by having him compete for status with two other dudes carrying fake titles around. 

Ospreay and Okada are more important than Shingo so its not surprising to me at all. Lets not forget why Shingo is the champ in the first place.

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48 minutes ago, Archibald said:

Ospreay and Okada are more important than Shingo so its not surprising to me at all. Lets not forget why Shingo is the champ in the first place.

Right so why reinforce that by making him a kayfabe placeholder champion? And long-term Shingo is a much more reliable ace than the other two given that he's much less injury-battered (and, in the case of Ospreay, in an entirely different league in terms of his work but that part is subjective)...so why lean into the idea that he's just running around with a fake belt until Okada, Ospreay and Ibushi are back again? 

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1 hour ago, Belgian_Waffle said:

Right so why reinforce that by making him a kayfabe placeholder champion? And long-term Shingo is a much more reliable ace than the other two given that he's much less injury-battered (and, in the case of Ospreay, in an entirely different league in terms of his work but that part is subjective)...so why lean into the idea that he's just running around with a fake belt until Okada, Ospreay and Ibushi are back again? 

I was thinking at one point that maybe they should give G1 to Shingo to make him look "real", but since that didn't happen then I feel like there is no point in pretending that Shingo is anything, but placeholder.

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On 11/8/2021 at 3:11 PM, Control said:

I don’t watch NJPW, so tell me, to regular viewers, does this belt stuff seem super dumb? 

 

22 hours ago, D.Z said:

It's just ceremonial in retiring. Still doesn't mean Shingo goal will happen. Okada and Kota have their own goals.

People in or from Japan either don't mind whats going on with the titles or want it done away with already. Western people think the IWGP HW will be restored, but Okada said it basically won't in his own ways. The 4th gen IWGP HW belt is just being used for both the G 1 championship and certificate.

 

12 hours ago, Belgian_Waffle said:

It's even dumber than you think, probably. I tried to get back into watching NJPW over the last few weeks but even compared to my usual quibbles with NJPW's anti-hoss title scene, the multiple belts and long distance title shenanigans with Ospreay make the whole product feel illegitimate by association. Shingo on top has been on paper the best booking decision Gedo has made since Omega lost the belt and he's effectively sabotaged his own top guy by having him compete for status with two other dudes carrying fake titles around. 

If it was up to me I'd scrap the IWGP World Heavyweight Championship, retcon this year and reinstate the IWGP Heavyweight Championship V4 as the world title. The IWGP World Heavyweight Championship as a secondary world title like the World Heavyweight Championship/WWE Universal Championship usually is to the WWE Championship. It's cursed and get rid.

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Okada seems to me is planning to become double crown. IWGP World HW and G 1 Champion, no unification though..he would be carrying both belts if he wins.

Anyway Kota probably could end up winning all 3 titles instead. Or Will. It's too early to really know.

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It's not that fucking hard.  Shingo is the World Champ, he's main eventing shows.  Okada made up a belt that looks like the old belt that's a throwback to the old IWGP Tournys when the winner got a belt (while Inoki was the real main champ with the NWF Belt).  Ospreay isn't even on NJPW shows, he's just running around with an old belt in the US.

Anything beyond is just real shitty fantasy booking and whining because your belt fetish isn't being satisfied.  

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The Greatest 18 Club belt, used the Martial Arts Championship. Okada is using the 4th Gen HW as the unsanctioned G1 championship. Repurposing.

DSC_1580.jpg

Anyway Inoki nominated Fujita as the first gen IWGP HW champion in 2001, and Fujita fought Norton for the IWGP HW ( it was the second gen crown design at that time) and won both belts. IWGP "New and Old Belt Unification Battle". Ceremonial thing.

CtP9GUyVMAAvnxP.jpg

Edited by D.Z
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6 hours ago, Raziel said:

It's not that fucking hard.  Shingo is the World Champ, he's main eventing shows.  Okada made up a belt that looks like the old belt that's a throwback to the old IWGP Tournys when the winner got a belt (while Inoki was the real main champ with the NWF Belt).  Ospreay isn't even on NJPW shows, he's just running around with an old belt in the US.

Anything beyond is just real shitty fantasy booking and whining because your belt fetish isn't being satisfied.  

I didn’t say it was complicated. I asked if it was dumb.

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8 hours ago, Raziel said:

It's not that fucking hard.  Shingo is the World Champ, he's main eventing shows.  Okada made up a belt that looks like the old belt that's a throwback to the old IWGP Tournys when the winner got a belt (while Inoki was the real main champ with the NWF Belt).  Ospreay isn't even on NJPW shows, he's just running around with an old belt in the US.

Anything beyond is just real shitty fantasy booking and whining because your belt fetish isn't being satisfied.  

I dunno if you're being sarcastic or not but this synopsis in and of itself is pretty friggin convoluted. 

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He is not being sarcastic. I suggest you check out the English translation of the press conference where Okada goes full pepe silva in explaining what the purpose of him having a belt is. 

I assume at some point Sugabayashi said "fine, I'll let the fucking weirdo have his belt."

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8 hours ago, Belgian_Waffle said:

I dunno if you're being sarcastic or not but this synopsis in and of itself is pretty friggin convoluted. 

If you think Okada's standard issue "I'm I'm whack job without the belt" is convoluted, then being regaled with the NJPW Title scene from 1972-1987 might be hard to follow.

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