AEW Scouting Report

[Technico Support]

16 hours ago, christopher.annino said:

Luchasaurus is the anti-Keith Lee. Lee is a big dude who can do small dude shit extremely well, and yet is apparently being told, "No you should work like a monster." LS is a big dude who should be wrestling like a monster but is instead doing small dude shit he's not great at and apparently the bookers think that's just fine. 

Yeah, this.  I've said it before, but Luchasaurus needs to work more like Sid and less like an even lighter, more convoluted version of Stan Lane.  I don't need one of the biggest guys on the roster doing slow karate.

Miro, this guy, that  guy, whoever.  You know what's cool about AEW?  They feel no need at all to put every single guy on TV every week.  Because of that, we don't get meaningless matches filled with 50/50 booking and they can heat guys up as needed.  The flip side of that is we have guys who come across like they're treading water sometimes, as angles are developing far more slowly than we're used to, I guess.  But I'd rather see a guy like Miro come up slowly than some WWE shit where we run through steps A-Z of an angle in two weeks.

[Goodear]

MJF

A real heavy prospect to be the torch bearer for the promotion like Adam Page, MJF has a world of potential and a lot of skills already down that can positively impact his career. He's in good wrestler shape being thick and broad without being massive or even impressive. He doesn't need to look like he can actually fight since his character is based so much on being a rich scumbag. The scarf being so tied to his presentation is solid, I just wish he used it more ala the towel in the Hollywood Blondes sense to choke people when the referee isn't looking as a heat seeking measure. With it being cold outside in Florida, it seems almost timely to do so.  MJF is a good talker although I think sometimes he leans to much on Roddy Piper type jokes which can come off as inauthentic. He's at his best being more genuine than trying to be quotable or funny. 

I don't really understand how he chose the Fujiwara armbar as a finish as nothing about MJF says that he should be a submission guy. To me, he should be a bit more oily than tough so having him make people tap out is somewhat counter intuitive. Stealing the cross roads and redubbing the double cross was a good step but he's phased that out once the feud with Cody ended. If it was me, I'd have him use the pedigree as it's a fine finish, it's meta in that AEW crowds would hate it, and it works with his character with a long set up that can be countered a number of ways. 

Booking wise, MJF had a real strong start being in the weeds before the turn on Cody (despite everyone seeing it coming) and the subsequent feud. Going from that to a break to woring Moxley wasn't bad either but the campaign stuff was dumb and they stacked the odds against the heel rather than putting Moxley in an underdog position due to MJF stacking the deck against him using chicanery. After that, we moved to this Inner Circle thing which I think we've covered enough in the Jericho write up. I really think MJF would do his best work in personal feuds and angles and this Inner Circle thing just doesn't have that.

[Goodear]

17 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

Yeah, this.  I've said it before, but Luchasaurus needs to work more like Sid and less like an even lighter, more convoluted version of Stan Lane.  I don't need one of the biggest guys on the roster doing slow karate.

Miro, this guy, that  guy, whoever.  You know what's cool about AEW?  They feel no need at all to put every single guy on TV every week.  Because of that, we don't get meaningless matches filled with 50/50 booking and they can heat guys up as needed.  The flip side of that is we have guys who come across like they're treading water sometimes, as angles are developing far more slowly than we're used to, I guess.  But I'd rather see a guy like Miro come up slowly than some WWE shit where we run through steps A-Z of an angle in two weeks.

I get that they have a guy who can do some impressive kicks and they want to let him. But instead of just kicking people, he's put these longer sequences together like "one guy ducks and the guy next to him gets kicked" and the aforementioned 'block low, kick high' spot. It would behoove him just to kick people with no counter spots.

AEW's booking pace can be glacial at times with long periods with no development. And while its not so fast that our necks are breaking, it is so slow that I lose interest. For example, I would say the follow angles were/are too slow in developing.

Colt Cabana/Tay Conti joining the Dark Order or Not

Allie being QT Marshall's girlfriend

Kenny Omega's heel turn (not the aftermath, the set up to the turn)

MJF-Inner Circle Angle

 

[Goodear]

Marko Stunt

Yes he's small. Duh.

The issue for he isn't that he's small. It's that he's completely unlikable. If he could build sympathy like a Mikey Whipwreck, it would mean more to us as an audience when he finally did something worth cheering. Instead, I look forward to him getting smashed because he carries himself like he does. I watched him kick a job guy out of the ring on Dark one week after a Jurassic Express match and I just couldn't believe it. His mannerisms just scream annoying to me when I assume that's not what they've been going for. People love an underdog, but they don't love an underdog who pesters the shit out of them. And Stunt is a pest.

Skill wise, I equate working Marko Stunt to working the blow up doll in Japan. People having to do stuff to themselves to have believable offense. Nothing Stunt does looks like it would actually hurt a person. So people have to flip themselves around the guy to sell for him. I will reiterate that this could work as an underdog face but Stunt is portrayed as being better than that. If I was booking (and I'm sure everyone is glad I'm not) Marko would have been doing jobs with no offense for a month before he shocked the world with one good move (he does a pretty impressive tilt a whirl codebreaker from what I remember) and an upset over someone like say, Shawn Spears. Then you do the old Razor Ramon-Waltman angle and off you go. But they just gave away Marko's first win on Dark against Silver and Reynolds before they were even in the Dark Order to no fanfare.

Stunt does no favors to the Jurassic Express since he's such a putz. So you think less of Jungle Boy and Luchasaurus just for hanging out with him. They were fine without him and I don't think he adds anything to the team. Jungle Boy is small enough to draw heat on his own and is out the bat more likable without having to actually do anything.

 

[Hustler of Culture]

I've hated how they have booked MJF.  Starting him off as a quasi-babyface under Cody's tutelage and have him turn heel could have worked if he had continued to prove fans wrong that he would turn on Cody and then built up the trust of the fans.  Once that trust would have been built up, then have him turn on Cody because that's what effective heel turns are about...burning the fans.

Instead, they never built up that trust and had no real good explanation as to why MJF turned on Cody...or at the very least that Cody should have seen it coming and it made Cody look weak.  And then for him to become friends with Jericho and the Inner Circle after just recently having actually fought them.  

And then all of the stuff with Jericho has fallen flat on me.  It's typical sports entertainment bullshit instead of a real alternative.  Too much attempts to be funny instead of believing in him being a spoiled, rich kid who is a prick.  

The feel I get is that MJF is supposed to be the next in line great heel, but I think Sammy Guevara has far more heat than he does. Mainly because it's pretty easy to anticipate what MJF is going to say and too much ha-ha leads fans to liking him.  Guevara just oozes this douchy, ass kisser that has a Tully Blanchard punchable face.  

In the ring I've been impressed with his work.  He comes more from the Boris Malenko school of the heel not giving the face an inch and taking advantage of situations.  

The problem is I just haven't seen a lot of him on Dynamite.  When I see him in the ring, it may be another month before I see him again.  Usually that's reserved for wrestlers that climb their way up to being a superstar.  But in AEW they do so many things ass backwards.

I'm not a fan of the scarf.  It comes off too much like early 90's WWF or WCW.  Too much of a gimmick and for the love of God, he should be hailed as being from The Hamptons or The Upper East Side instead of Plainview. 

He really needs to get away from the Inner Circle stuff, get more TV time whether it be matches or just pre-recorded promos.  I think he could get nuclear heat if he made fun of the modern wrestling style and made the fans think he was actually refusing to participate in letting their favorite wrestlers do their flippy spots and then have him cut promos alluding to him refusing to do that and mocking those fans.  When fans start to question what is a shoot and what is a work, that draws.  But this stuff with Jericho they have no doubt in their mind that he is trying to play the heel role and they just become nonplussed over it.

 

 

 

HoC

[AxB]

58 minutes ago, Goodear said:

I think HoC makes a good point that too much of a heavy hand stifles creativity but too much freedom can lead to a bunch of people who won't challenge each other creatively to make the best product.

 

Why do people have this obsession with the idea that an antagonistic environment is more conducive to creative inspiration than a friendly environment is? Have you never been in a band?

Bands who get on well discuss ideas positively, inspire one another creatively, and do their best work. Bands who don't get on well argue about everything, blame each other, develop individual persecution complexes, and get nothing done.

Kevin Nash's advice to young wrestlers was always to be having fun in the ring, because the fans can tell whether you're enjoying yourself or not. And generally if you're having fun doing something, the fans will be having fun watching it. 

[Hustler of Culture]

Stunt just isn't good.  And the comparisons to Lyger and Mysterio (made by Meltzer of all people) are ridiculous.  They were far better workers, far better athletes and had far better physiques than Stunt.  The more close comparison is really Darby Allin, who isn't much bigger than Stunt.  But if people were saying that because of Darby's size he isn't 'believable', then the comparison to Lyger and Mysterio would work because Allin is on their level in terms of athleticism, quickness and working ability.  I can believe in Darby Allin working a match against somebody like Cody (and it was a great match).  I can't believe Stunt working against 90% of the roster.

The other issue with Stunt is he takes away the underdog babyface heat from Jungle Boy.  Jungle Boy is a very small guy, but a great athlete who has a ton of potential and you hope as the years progress he gets bigger and has more of an elite athlete's type of physique and by showing heat and determination he can make himself into a superstar.  But putting Stunt alongside the Lucha Express now takes away that underdog heat from Jungle Boy because there's an even smaller guy who is willing to get involved in their matches alongside them.  As Jim Cornette likes to say...it's a hat on a hat.  Unfortunately it's more like a raggidy trucker's hat on top of a Vivienne Westwood hat.

He just screams amateur hour to me.  While I appreciate him having a lot of heart to do this, wrestlers like Jungle Boy and Allin have plenty of heart and they come off more as professional or potentially professional to me.  And they don't miss their cues nearly as much as Stunt does. 

If feels like because Stunt is small and became friends with the execs and is willing to do all of the silly shit they love they are willing to look past the fact that he's just not very good and a detriment to the show.

 

 

 

HoC

[Guest Jimbo_Tsuruta]

10 minutes ago, Hustler of Culture said:

And then all of the stuff with Jericho has fallen flat on me.  It's typical sports entertainment bullshit instead of a real alternative.  Too much attempts to be funny instead of believing in him being a spoiled, rich kid who is a prick.  
 

Same for me. The Inner Circle comes off as a clownish. I'd rather MJF just stuck with Wardlow without getting tangled up in any factions.

[Hustler of Culture]

9 minutes ago, AxB said:

Why do people have this obsession with the idea that an antagonistic environment is more conducive to creative inspiration than a friendly environment is? Have you never been in a band?

Bands who get on well discuss ideas positively, inspire one another creatively, and do their best work. Bands who don't get on well argue about everything, blame each other, develop individual persecution complexes, and get nothing done.

Kevin Nash's advice to young wrestlers was always to be having fun in the ring, because the fans can tell whether you're enjoying yourself or not. And generally if you're having fun doing something, the fans will be having fun watching it. 

Nobody is saying that an antagonistic environment is the way to go.  In fact, Goodear's post specifically points out there is a happy medium.  As I mentioned with ECW, it wasn't an antagonistic environment, but it certainly wasn't an environment where everybody was buddy-buddy with each other.  Many wrestlers did not like Taz.  Sabu & RVD looked down up much of the roster.  Raven wasn't easy to get along with.  But they respected what they brought to the table and it also instilled some competitiveness with each other.

 

As far as bands go, The Rolling Stones, GNR, Metallica, Oasis, The Eagles, Van Halen etc. were quite successful despite being at each others throats for extended periods of time.  And quoting Kevin Nash on how to work in the ring, probably not the best idea.



HoC

[Goodear]

44 minutes ago, AxB said:

Why do people have this obsession with the idea that an antagonistic environment is more conducive to creative inspiration than a friendly environment is? Have you never been in a band?

Bands who get on well discuss ideas positively, inspire one another creatively, and do their best work. Bands who don't get on well argue about everything, blame each other, develop individual persecution complexes, and get nothing done.

Looking at your band example, if every member just went their own way during a song and there was no cohesion that wouldn't make for a good performance. Professionals take feedback and decide what will work and what will not. Collaboration does not mean "I do what I want" just like it doesn't mean "I do what I'm told."

EDIT: Let me expand on this. 

You have three bands working with three producers.

One producer wants to change everything about their band.

Second producer loves everything their band does and has nothing they can possibly add to make the band better.

Third producer gives meaningful critiques to the band in a way to help them improve.

 

Edited December 21, 2020 by Goodear

[AxB]

Best GnR album: Appetite, written when they were friends. 

Best Metallica album: Ride the Lightning, written when they were friends.

Best Stones album: Probably one of the early ones.

Best Oasis album: None they're all shit.

Fuck the Eagles. 

And Nash was talking about angles and promos, not bell to bell shit. That's the only part of wrestling he never quite got the hang of, the actual wrestling part. Every aspect of Pro wrestling that wasn't the matches, he understands. Although admittedly he failed as WCW head booker (which was arguably a job that it was impossible to succeed at, at that time).

[Coletti]

I think Marko Stunt would be great as a shitty little heel manager behind a team like Bear Country, sneaking in once in awhile to cheat, running away from pissed off babyfaces and hiding behind a big mean dude. I mean, that's basically what he does now but he's supposed to be a good guy? Yeah I don't fucking get it either... 

[Godfrey]

Criticisms of AEW's management style are one thing and a totally valid point, catastrophizing Miro or anyone else's career because you don't like their gimmick is another. People act like everyone shows up to Dynamite to fuck around and have fun and aren't worried about making the show or themselves a success. You really think somebody signed to a deal like Miro's is going to be allowed to fail until his contracts up and they don't resign him? No, they want to get the most out of their investment. Dude is full of charisma and has a great look, he's already turned away from video games and more towards a psycho who wrecks fools, the Kip/Penelope wedding angle is almost over and nobody knows where he will go from there. I fully agree that some wrangling needs to happen backstage but give Miro at least 6 months before we call his run a disaster.

[Technico Support]

Miro probably needs a lot more ring time in this new, more worker-friendly and open environment as well.  The guy has been in the WWE system forever and needs to work bad WWE in-ring habits out of his system.  What is the wrestling equivalent of a cult deprogrammer? 

[Goodear]

27 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

Miro probably needs a lot more ring time in this new, more worker-friendly and open environment as well.  The guy has been in the WWE system forever and needs to work bad WWE in-ring habits out of his system.  What is the wrestling equivalent of a cult deprogrammer? 

I don't think Miro's been bad in ring. I think he was too giving in his debut against Janela and Kiss.  He should have let Sabian work the body of the match before coming in and just dominating for the finish.

[Gordi the former AEW fan]

1 hour ago, Hustler of Culture said:

 Many wrestlers did not like Taz. 

Yeah, it's a real shame that AEW's buddy-buddy locker room prevents them from ever bringing in a guy like Taz. That's the price you have to pay, I guess 

[The Green Meanie]

Re: MJF

He is sooooooo good at being a bad guy. It's not forced, you can tell dude isn't acting (and is having fun whilst doing it.) My wife haaaaaaaaaates him for his snobbish, sexist persona. I'm actually a fan since he pulls it off so well, it's impressive. We both frequently have said "that's some good quality heelin'."

One thing I don't get - I started watching right at the whole Cody turn/Inner Circle stadium brawl/"Who wears a scarf?" dealie...why exactly was MJF with Cody anyways? That pairing makes no sense.

[AxB]

"I knew he was an asshole, I just thought he could be my asshole".

Cody's messiah complex playing up early. He always wanted to be Sting and he thought MJF could be his Luger.

[Hustler of Culture]

2 hours ago, El Gran Gordi said:

Yeah, it's a real shame that AEW's buddy-buddy locker room prevents them from ever bringing in a guy like Taz. That's the price you have to pay, I guess 

AEW would not have brought in 1990's Taz into their locker room because he wasn't going to be their buddy and was too into character.  Yet, he was over in ECW, sold a lot of merch and also designed merch behind the scenes that sold extremely well.

Modern day Taz is nothing like the Taz from 20+ years ago.  This isn't hard to figure out unless you feel the need to blindly stooge for AEW.

 

 

 

HoC

[Hustler of Culture]

1 hour ago, The Green Meanie said:

Re: MJF

He is sooooooo good at being a bad guy. It's not forced, you can tell dude isn't acting (and is having fun whilst doing it.) My wife haaaaaaaaaates him for his snobbish, sexist persona. I'm actually a fan since he pulls it off so well, it's impressive. We both frequently have said "that's some good quality heelin'."

One thing I don't get - I started watching right at the whole Cody turn/Inner Circle stadium brawl/"Who wears a scarf?" dealie...why exactly was MJF with Cody anyways? That pairing makes no sense.

To my knowledge Cody looked at MJF as a potential superstar and took MJF under his wing.

It would have been a new twist to your typical pro wrestling booking.  Typically the booking is that the mentor is the heel and the student is the face who gets fed up with the mentor and finally breaks away.  Or they may be both faces or both heels and the student makes the turn.  This scenario was different, but still something they could have written to make a compelling angle.

I would have booked MJF was a heel to everybody else but Cody.  And then I would have booked it as such where every time the fans and announcers say that MJF is going to turn on Cody...have MJF prove them wrong and be there for Cody.  Then when the sentiment turns to 'MJF may be an asshole, but he's always there for Cody'...that is when you turn him and it has a greater effect.  Instead they rushed it because Tony Khan can't book and doesn't understand the concept of booking momentum and staying one step ahead of the fans.  Thus the MJF heel turn got minimal effect because it was more or less expected to happen.

 

 

 

HoC

[AxB]

That's exactly what they did. MJF was doing the 'super nice when Cody is in the room and a complete nightmare when he's not' thing for MONTHS. He tried to poison Pharoah ffs.

[Technico Support]

Speaking of "wrestlers who don't like other wrestlers," as it relates to AEW (sort of), what's the issue between Eddie Kingston and Chris Hero?  And is it one of those things where it's an old issue, there's no real heat anymore, and they're just sort of joking about it now?

Because I'd love to see Hero show up in AEW eventually.

[The Green Meanie]

3 hours ago, Hustler of Culture said:

To my knowledge Cody looked at MJF as a potential superstar and took MJF under his wing.

It would have been a new twist to your typical pro wrestling booking.  Typically the booking is that the mentor is the heel and the student is the face who gets fed up with the mentor and finally breaks away. 

I always thought the typical dynamic was mentor is face and student is heel, a la Sammartino/Zbyszko

[Hustler of Culture]

3 hours ago, The Green Meanie said:

I always thought the typical dynamic was mentor is face and student is heel, a la Sammartino/Zbyszko

Mr. Wrestling II was heel and Magnum TA was face.  The Grappler was a heel and Carl Styles was a face.  It could very well be mentor as the face and student as the heel, but in order to get the full effect of the heel turn the student has to gain the fans' sympathy and then betray their trust which is what Zbyszko did.

 

 

 

HoC

[Casey]

8 hours ago, AxB said:

That's exactly what they did. MJF was doing the 'super nice when Cody is in the room and a complete nightmare when he's not' thing for MONTHS. He tried to poison Pharoah ffs.

Yeah, that started sometime before Double or Nothing 2019 and the angle wasn’t payed off until Full Gear 2019. That’s almost a year.

but, hey, Tony Khan can’t book!