AEW Scouting Report

[Technico Support]

The Bucks work the way they're supposed to work for the place they're working.  Tag team spotfests are the AEW house style.  If you don't like that style and you watch a Young Bucks match in AEW, you're going to have a bad time.  You can say you've never watched their Japan stuff (where they were expected to work more well-rounded, psychology-based matches and did -- a whole bunch of them, as a matter of fact) and that's your prerogative.  But you can't just put your fingers in your ears and pretend they didn't happen because it doesn't support your argument.  Brad Pitt just won an Oscar.  Are you going to say "I never saw the movie he won for but I saw True Romance and that dude is only good at playing stoners!" 

[Goodear]

Respectfully, I never said they were incapable of working with selling and psychology or that they've never done it. I said they didn't in AEW which you seem to be agreeing with, stating that they are doing tag team spot fests. And considering they help run the promotion, they are the ones who get to set the house style. Yes, that is not the style I prefer so generally I suggest moving away from that. 

From your acting example, if I were to say The Rock plays a lot of action star roles and you brought up Be Cool, it does not change the fact that The Rock mostly does do action movies. The Young Bucks mostly do spot fests and pointing to a match or even run doesn't change the trend. I'm not intending this to be a historical retelling of anyone in AEW, its supposed to be about right now. 

Edited December 23, 2020 by Goodear

[Technico Support]

That's cool.  And I was really replying more to Hustler of Culture's more ridiculous criticism than yours, which was more valid and measured.  I feel like everyone piled on him (with good reason!) but you took offense to the collateral shit flinging.

[Godfrey]

The Bucks have so much fat in their matches they may as well go full keto. It's their style, it's visually impressive and sometimes meaningless and it works for a large portion of the audience even if it doesn't do much for me. It's to their credit that they still put on matches I highly enjoy working the way they do, although they tend to work a lot smarter in bigger matches and build towards their highspots in a way that makes more sense.

Re: the discussion in this thread, I've been really enjoying it but when rampant speculation and subjective opinion are treated as fact and then we're pre-insulted for daring to have a different take, it does make it less fun. 

[NikoBaltimore]

42 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

That's cool.  And I was really replying more to Hustler of Culture's more ridiculous criticism than yours, which was more valid and measured.  I feel like everyone piled on him (with good reason!) but you took offense to the collateral shit flinging.

When HoC made a dumb comment about Japanese women in another thread I realized he's not somebody worth paying attention to.  I just put him on ignore and he's the one person I don't feel bad doing that for.  Which works as it makes reading this thread much easier for me.

As for the Bucks it's funny how I thought Cody or even Kenny would garner pages of discussion yet it was Matt Jackson of all people that triggered this.  I at first was going to defend them but at this point feel it's maybe best to move on to somebody else.  All I'll say is a lot of the times they're on it leads to a positive ratings change.  So for those that care about that right or wrong it appears what they're doing is working.

And while Goodear might not need my two cents on the thread I've enjoyed reading it a lot.  I know it was tough for me at first to not go all "But what about BTE?" or something else but it also made me think about what others feel who's only exposure to these wrestlers is just Dynamite.  Some of my friends don't fully get the big deal about some of the wrestlers so it's interesting to see their first impressions of somebody compared to when I first saw them.  But there's some very valid criticisms to go with the positives pointed out which make for a good read.

Edited December 23, 2020 by NikoBaltimore

[Craig H]

My comment was also not necessarily detected at Gooddear. I honestly couldn't care less about what he has to say. It was directed at HoC who, if you guys haven't figured out who they are, then I really can't help you.

Anyway, the wrestlingopinionz4u stuff is dull and boring. It's presenting your opinions as fact because you can manage to articulate them in some kind of intellectual way. You're fucking talking about dudes who are Mexican ghost ninjas, wrestling dinosaurs, a wrestling dentist role model, etc. Some of this is interesting from a let's just have something to talk about perspective, but the problem is that you start feeling yourself, feeling like you have an audience, and then it turns from conversation starter to here's my wrestling factz and fuckuifudisagree.

My bar for wrestling is is it fun, was the match fun, did the match try to cut down on stupid shit that bugs me, and do I find the storylines engaging or interesting more than 50% of the time. It's admittedly not a very high bar, but in WWE they can't clear this bar, NJPW does it pretty consistently up until this year and they still did so for most of their operating year (let's just pretend EVIL was never IWGP champion), and AEW does it pretty consistently. RoH and Impact are hard to watch right now because their presentation is so cavernous and poor. Beyond that, my analysis for most AEW wrestlers is do they fit or not. Like, Brian Cage kinda stinks and would be better off learning at the PC of all places. So he doesn't fit. Top Flight? They totally fit. 

[EVA]

I periodically check in on Goodear’s Safe Space for Kvetching About a Promotion He Hates, and I’ll just say that him taking the opportunity to lose his shit at everybody (despite everybody clearly talking about/to Hustler of Culture’s dumb ass) kinda tells you everything you need to know about what type of dialogue he was hoping to have when he started this thread in the first place.  It’s always been about getting attention on his Very Special Opinions and trying to provoke shit.  He’s just upset right now because Hustler of Culture swooped in and stole all his heat.

Edited December 23, 2020 by EVA

[OSJ]

1 hour ago, Craig H said:

My comment was also not necessarily detected at Gooddear. I honestly couldn't care less about what he has to say. It was directed at HoC who, if you guys haven't figured out who they are, then I really can't help you.

Anyway, the wrestlingopinionz4u stuff is dull and boring. It's presenting your opinions as fact because you can manage to articulate them in some kind of intellectual way. You're fucking talking about dudes who are Mexican ghost ninjas, wrestling dinosaurs, a wrestling dentist role model, etc. Some of this is interesting from a let's just have something to talk about perspective, but the problem is that you start feeling yourself, feeling like you have an audience, and then it turns from conversation starter to here's my wrestling factz and fuckuifudisagree.

My bar for wrestling is is it fun, was the match fun, did the match try to cut down on stupid shit that bugs me, and do I find the storylines engaging or interesting more than 50% of the time. It's admittedly not a very high bar, but in WWE they can't clear this bar, NJPW does it pretty consistently up until this year and they still did so for most of their operating year (let's just pretend EVIL was never IWGP champion), and AEW does it pretty consistently. RoH and Impact are hard to watch right now because their presentation is so cavernous and poor. Beyond that, my analysis for most AEW wrestlers is do they fit or not. Like, Brian Cage kinda stinks and would be better off learning at the PC of all places. So he doesn't fit. Top Flight? They totally fit. 

There needs to be a place in wrestling for ghost ninjas, dinosaurs, and wrestling dentists. Isaac Yankem never got his rightful run with the belt, damnit!

[Goodear]

1 hour ago, NikoBaltimore said:

And while Goodear might not need my two cents on the thread I've enjoyed reading it a lot.  I know it was tough for me at first to not go all "But what about BTE?" or something else but it also made me think about what others feel who's only exposure to these wrestlers is just Dynamite.  Some of my friends don't fully get the big deal about some of the wrestlers so it's interesting to see their first impressions of somebody compared to when I first saw them.  But there's some very valid criticisms to go with the positives pointed out which make for a good read.

I've kind of shied away from talking about BTE as it's really hard for me to tie it to Dynamite. It makes AEW like the Muppet Show where the wacky wrestlers are running around backstage in effect putting on a second show about the first show. The continuity worm hole is deep on that one. They almost have a second continuity going on BTE and I try to treat it as such.

[Goodear]

2 hours ago, Technico Support said:

That's cool.  And I was really replying more to Hustler of Culture's more ridiculous criticism than yours, which was more valid and measured.  I feel like everyone piled on him (with good reason!) but you took offense to the collateral shit flinging.

From my perspective, HoC was replying to the topic on topic and a bunch of people jumped in to say how dumb the conversation was for being too long, old or how much they don't like the person.  

[Goodear]

1 hour ago, EVA said:

I periodically check in on Goodear’s Safe Space for Kvetching About a Promotion He Hates, and I’ll just say that him taking the opportunity to lose his shit at everybody (despite everybody clearly talking about/to Hustler of Culture’s dumb ass) kinda tells you everything you need to know about what type of dialogue he was hoping to have when he started this thread in the first place.  It’s always been about getting attention on his Very Special Opinions and trying to provoke shit.  He’s just upset right now because Hustler of Culture swooped in and stole all his heat.

So let's examine this idea. You think I wrote nearly 50 posts in over the course of a month about the AEW roster in order to "get heat". If that is the case, please point me to the post in that 50 that said anything approaching inflammatory for the sake of it. It shouldn't be too hard since I'm clearly just looking to bitch in my safe space (that has literally no barriers to entry).

[Goodear]

Hey how about that Matt Sydal 

Matt is probably the one person I would most look to and say that AEW signed him really just to sign him. I would suggest that based on having no angles outside the getting back at Michael Nakazawa for the slippery ropes which was obviously a retcon. I don't know if they just threw their hands in the air after he botched his introduction spot in the battle royal but that doesn't seem like AEW's style. So he lacks a clear purpose and motivation for being around so his matches tend to be a bit empty emotionally because of the lack of investment. His gimmick of pointing to his forehead doesn't really tell us enough about him to have an opinion. 

I've got mostly positives to say about Sydal's look or skills outside of his finishes. I love his standing backflip into a twisting senton thing and wish he leaned a bit more on the aerial stuff even though he's good as most everything. I liked the idea of the grounded cobra clutch as a finish in concept but I don't know if the execution was there as there isn't enough torque with a leg grapevine. Maybe if he was in more of a crippler crossface position it would look better. I also don't like his other finish even though he executes it well. It's like seeing a really well executed "play of the day" and recognizing although its well executed, that its still a little goofy just because of the mechanics involved.

Sydal kind of looks like a dirty hippy and that's about where he wants to be until they decide on a direction for him. He can clean up or get more oily with ease and not go too far off initial concept. It wouldn't be a wild departure either way. Matt just needs to be pointed in one direction or the other.  On tweeners: To me tweeners work when you have a character with a really big aura who you either love or hate based on who they are doing stuff to. It commonly works best for forces of nature who don't care about your family like Samoa Joe or Meng. It works less well for someone like Sydal who doesn't have that sort of personality. He needs a direction to take his character or he won't get a great reaction.

[NikoBaltimore]

Agreed on Sydal though FWIW the pointing to his forehead is him bringing up seeing with ones third eye.  In Impact he did that all the time and would heel it up saying that because of his third eye it allows him to be better than everybody.  But it's based off of a time where he went to Peru and had Ayahuasca.  The experience led to him in his words having Spiderman-like reflexes and the story he tells is quite something.  I think he told it on Cabana's podcast.

Now that said there has been no reference whatsoever to that on AEW.  The latter reason you maybe can't say but it would be nice to get a promo so he can mention the third eye.  Now whether that ends up being any good kind of depends on if he gets any kind of push.  Considering he's signed for all we know he could be on a holding pattern unless he's strictly in a gatekeeper type role.

[Goodear]

Max Caster

Now that we've seen more of Caster and Bowens than way back in the A's, I feel a bit more comfortable giving a stronger opinion on the Acclaimed. That being said, I am still not completely sold on the rapper gimmick for Caster if only because his cadence is very much like Cena's from back in the day and that is going to bring unfortunate comparisons. Caster's look is pretty good with an appropriately slapable face. If anything, he needs to be a bit more of a ham and let Bowens be the Terry Gordy to his Michael Hayes. As Bowens is more physical and Caster more charismatic, they should lean into those positions in the team. They actually meld well for guys who haven't been teamed that long. Caster's rubbing people's hands on his face at the pinfall is suitably weird and wrong to draw heat. His top rope elbow finish is not great, he often lands on people's shoulders instead of their chest or neck. The Acclaimed have some moves that don't work well with the sunset flip-neckbreaker-lung blower thing being the most obvious. They also have some green habits like repeating botched spots. They'll learn in time. I look at them as guys who will be a much bigger deal in 2-3 years of flavoring.

[Goodear]

7 minutes ago, NikoBaltimore said:

Agreed on Sydal though FWIW the pointing to his forehead is him bringing up seeing with ones third eye.  In Impact he did that all the time and would heel it up saying that because of his third eye it allows him to be better than everybody.  But it's based off of a time where he went to Peru and had Ayahuasca.  The experience led to him in his words having Spiderman-like reflexes and the story he tells is quite something.  I think he told it on Cabana's podcast.

Yeah sorry, I knew it was the third eye deal but I lost it in the edits. What I was trying to get across is that they haven't established the third eye as a positive as an authentic religious experience or a negative as some white dude culturally appropriating or thinking it makes him above normal people. 

[Unnatural]

Rapping the same cadence as Cena may have to do with the "yelling at clouds/get off my lawn" crowd, aka if he were to speed it up and just blaze through the lyrics the grogs would be more grumpy and complain that "he needs to slow it down, I can't understand what he's saying!"* aka the "in my day, those hip hoppers would let everything breathe and have room, it wasn't a jumbled mess of trying to get everything in all at once like these lazy bums nowadays" type of complaints

 

*imho as always

[Goodear]

Yeah its a tough spot in that Caster also wants to pause so he can get the reaction pop (which is a logical choice). I'd just be concerned that it would be looked at as too derivative. Maybe they should lean more into the extravagant lifestyle rather than the actual rap performance.

[Godfrey]

34 minutes ago, NikoBaltimore said:

Agreed on Sydal though FWIW the pointing to his forehead is him bringing up seeing with ones third eye.  In Impact he did that all the time and would heel it up saying that because of his third eye it allows him to be better than everybody.  But it's based off of a time where he went to Peru and had Ayahuasca.  The experience led to him in his words having Spiderman-like reflexes and the story he tells is quite something.  I think he told it on Cabana's podcast.

Now that said there has been no reference whatsoever to that on AEW.  The latter reason you maybe can't say but it would be nice to get a promo so he can mention the third eye.  Now whether that ends up being any good kind of depends on if he gets any kind of push.  Considering he's signed for all we know he could be on a holding pattern unless he's strictly in a gatekeeper type role.

The ayahuasca story was on Colt's podcast and I believe Sydal claimed that time worked differently for him after the trip. It led to a great obnoxious heel character, one of those annoying stoners always talking about freeing your mind, man. I think if he can harness that energy again he could make more of a go as a singles wrestler, as a happy go lucky face he's very much lost in the shuffle.

[NikoBaltimore]

9 minutes ago, Godfrey said:

The ayahuasca story was on Colt's podcast and I believe Sydal claimed that time worked differently for him after the trip. It led to a great obnoxious heel character, one of those annoying stoners always talking about freeing your mind, man. I think if he can harness that energy again he could make more of a go as a singles wrestler, as a happy go lucky face he's very much lost in the shuffle.

I would love that.  If people saw his Impact run it would seem as a retread but considering how many watch I don't think that'd be an issue.  And that's not a slight on Impact but more basing it off ratings alone.  It all just depends on the role they want him in.  At this point in career I still think he was brought in a gatekeeper so there might not be any real plans for a good while if at all.  And whether he botched the SSP or not wouldn't have made much of a difference.  But I did like that he was a good sport about it to do the angle with Nakazawa.  It was mainly a BTE storyline but I was highly amused by it anyway.

[The Green Meanie]

I was big on Caster's look/gimmick when he first debuted (pre-rapping, pre-Acclaimed) I like the rapping gimmick, but I don't know (yet) if that's the right fit for him. I like The Acclaimed overall, though.

[DreamBroken]

the commentary during Late Night Dynamite back in September, cracking each other up going on about Sydal's "Shamantic Experience" was hilarious.  I was a big fan of his Impact run so I'd like to see him do more on Dynamite.

[Jenalysis]

14 hours ago, Goodear said:

Hey how about that Matt Sydal 

Matt is probably the one person I would most look to and say that AEW signed him really just to sign him. I would suggest that based on having no angles outside the getting back at Michael Nakazawa for the slippery ropes which was obviously a retcon. I don't know if they just threw their hands in the air after he botched his introduction spot in the battle royal but that doesn't seem like AEW's style. So he lacks a clear purpose and motivation for being around so his matches tend to be a bit empty emotionally because of the lack of investment. His gimmick of pointing to his forehead doesn't really tell us enough about him to have an opinion. 

I've got mostly positives to say about Sydal's look or skills outside of his finishes. I love his standing backflip into a twisting senton thing and wish he leaned a bit more on the aerial stuff even though he's good as most everything. I liked the idea of the grounded cobra clutch as a finish in concept but I don't know if the execution was there as there isn't enough torque with a leg grapevine. Maybe if he was in more of a crippler crossface position it would look better. I also don't like his other finish even though he executes it well. It's like seeing a really well executed "play of the day" and recognizing although its well executed, that its still a little goofy just because of the mechanics involved.

Sydal kind of looks like a dirty hippy and that's about where he wants to be until they decide on a direction for him. He can clean up or get more oily with ease and not go too far off initial concept. It wouldn't be a wild departure either way. Matt just needs to be pointed in one direction or the other.  On tweeners: To me tweeners work when you have a character with a really big aura who you either love or hate based on who they are doing stuff to. It commonly works best for forces of nature who don't care about your family like Samoa Joe or Meng. It works less well for someone like Sydal who doesn't have that sort of personality. He needs a direction to take his character or he won't get a great reaction.

 

I'd like to see Sydal paired up with Chaos Project.   None of them have a whole lot to do, and the gimmicks would make sense together,  Could lead to some interesting 6-mans.  There's not a lot of ceiling on Sydal, he's a good hand- can be counted on to have good JTTS matches, and that's the proper role for him.  Having guys like that in your promotion isn't a bad thing.   

 

As for Max Caster and the Bucks- we got a good example of both of them in the main tonight.  I think it showed that Max is pretty green still (but I still think the Acclaimed have more potential than crappy Private Party, the Acclaimed at least manage to be annoying and put out decent diss tracks, even if I'd so much rather see Injustice in their slot).  also the Bucks showed they could work smart with a mostly-nothing team and generate a solid match out of it (about the most you were going to get out of the Acclaimed right now, a solid match with solid heat- but that's still pretty good!)

 

 

[Hustler of Culture]

On 12/23/2020 at 9:23 AM, Technico Support said:

That's cool.  And I was really replying more to Hustler of Culture's more ridiculous criticism than yours, which was more valid and measured.  I feel like everyone piled on him (with good reason!) but you took offense to the collateral shit flinging.

I have watched their work in Japan and they weren't as over as people make them out to be.  At the PWG shows I've been to, they were mega-over, but you're talking about a promotion that draws 5,000 fans per year.  And they are far less compelling to watch when they are not working a tornado style tag match or a TLC style match.  That's why they had to go to a TLC type match against the Lucha Bros in only the third match of their feud...it would have gotten boring and a tough sell to fans to buy the PPV.

Last night's match against The Acclaimed was a good example.  It started off really well.  It was filled with great spots early on, but in a traditional tag rules match and the spots were plausible with the overall story being that that the Young Bucks were a little quicker and tagging in and out better.  But then they do a 'dive into the quails' spot and too many big moves weren't finishing guys off and then they started to get into the 'one partner is on the floor for an extended period of time and comes from out of nowhere' spot along with all of these 1 guy beats 2 guys spots and they generally shit all over the referee.

It's not like I'm never entertained by a YB match, but it's likely not happening if it's a traditional match.  They really could have easily ended the match last night with the double starpshooter spot and it would have been a fine match.  Instead they went and did way too much and it made it look like a typical YB match that lost its psychology.  It's like the guy who can play the guitar and harmonica at the same time really well, but then decides to put symbols taped to his leg and clumsily clap them together.  Just because you can do it, doesn't mean you should.  And stick to the stuff you do well and stay away from the stuff you don't do well.

 

 

 

HoC

Edited December 24, 2020 by Hustler of Culture

[Goodear]

Michael Nakazawa

Nakasawa is a strange case in that I don't think he's very good and his baby oil gimmick has overstayed its welcome and the thong claw is the worst thing I've ever seen but I still see a road for him I would want to see AEW pursue. And that is as the source of every slip, fall and botch that takes place. The notion that every time someone flubs a spot that AEW provides retcon footage of Nakasawa setting it up tickles me to an unexplainable degree. This then leads to Nakasawa getting his face pushed in and I'm down with that. I have almost zero interest in Nakasawa working competitive matches but working a Santino type character where he just gets slaughtered every week? I would at least try that in the hopes that every botch would lead to Nakasawa chants because I have a bizarre sense of humor.

[Curt McGirt]

I don't want anybody rapping to the ring. And I love a lot of hip hop. 

Luchasaurus actually looked good in the ring last night for once besides the standing moonsault. All he needs to do is run over guys and throw Stunt around. It's not that hard.