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AEW Scouting Report


Goodear

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Mel

Not sure what if anything the plans are for Mel since she's been off television including Dark for ages. I can see using her to put over someone like KiLynn King in the future but I don't know how much value Mel has to even do that since she's been MIA for so long and I don't know that anyone has missed her since she disappeared into the (to use a particular word with no other context) vortex. She's okay in the same way Tamina is okay. She's biggish and not a complete embarrassment but she's not going to sell a ticket for you.

These are some short write ups today. I'm sure tomorrows will be bigger. Who is next alphabetically anyway?

 

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50 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

I don't want anybody rapping to the ring. And I love a lot of hip hop. 

Luchasaurus actually looked good in the ring last night for once besides the standing moonsault. All he needs to do is run over guys and throw Stunt around. It's not that hard.

Stunt needs to be thrown around early and often.

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2 hours ago, Curt McGirt said:

I don't want anybody rapping to the ring. And I love a lot of hip hop. 

Luchasaurus actually looked good in the ring last night for once besides the standing moonsault. All he needs to do is run over guys and throw Stunt around. It's not that hard.

I think it works for The Acclaimed to come with lame battle raps and use that as a heel.   It generates legit heat.  So far I have liked what I've seen out The Acclaimed.

 

 

 

HoC

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I think AEW needs to stay away from the Santino type gimmicks.  Even though I don't like the Orange Cassidy gimmick and I think it has negative consequences, he has at least shown to move the ratings needle at times.  And if you bring in more comedy gimmicks, not only does it not separate the AEW product from the WWE product, but it makes somebody like Orange Cassidy less special.  It's very much like the old saying 'if every wrestler in your promotion is a giant, then you have no giants.'

 

Nokazawa is 45 years old, he's not going to help the promotion...he can only hurt the promotion.  Again, it's the issue that modern wrestlers and fans of modern wrestlers don't quite understand...the people that don't watch wrestling that used to aren't against comedy in wrestling, but to use comedy (which doesn't sell anywhere near as well as they think it does) at the expense of compelling drama and character credibility is bad.

 

Shows like the Sopranos used comedy and were often hilarious at times, but they didn't use it so it made their main characters look weaker or make the show and storylines look not believable.  They were careful about how satire was used.  But if they had no satire, I don't think that would have caused fans to stop watching the show.  So when I see a guy using baby oil to escape a hold or any of the other shenanigans, it just makes the opponent look like a buffoon and I've had my fill of that from watching Vince McMahon's product over the past several decades.

 

 

 

HoC

 

 

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1 hour ago, Hustler of Culture said:

Care to point to examples?

Sure. Please bear in mind that this will be far from comprehensive. 

SPOILER WARNING for a TV show that's been off the air for 13+ years.

  • When Tony came back to Satriale's for the first time after a health problem (I think it was post-gunshot), there were shots humourously depicting his jealously of others' physical fitness or of Bobby's level of activity playing basketball in the parking lot.
  • In one episode Tony was humourously depicted removing his shoes and pants to get a more favourable reading on a bathroom scale.
  • Tony had a panic attack and passed out in a way that was depicted humourously because his daughter brought home a black man and he was too bigoted and mentally weak to handle it. Time and again, the show is humourously presenting the mental and phsyical weakness of its lead character.
  • Junior, one of the chief antagonists of the series' first season, is presented as being in rapid cognitive decline over the course of the series. His weakening mental health is played for laughs more times than would be worth listing.
  • Following the premiere of Christopher's movie, Tony is humourously presented as so dull and oblivious that he couldn't see that Christopher was airing their dirty laundry until it was explicitly pointed out to him the next day.
  • One of the most memorable episodes of the series has two of Tony's top guys humourously botching a job, finding themselves stranded in the woods starving and bickering over ketchup packets and tick-tacks, making Tony's whole operation look weak.

There are innumerable other examples. I feel I've listed enough to make my point. If you'd like to split hairs about the humourous intent of any particular example, you're welcome to but you'll be engaging in that exercise by yourself. 

Now you could also credibly say that all of these things were played in a genuine and believable way and had more serious ramifications. They were and they did. Junior's cognitive decline led to him shooting his nephew. Christopher's humourous, exposing movie contributed to the already-strained relationship between him and his uncle. The story of Tony returning to Satriale's ended in a violent fight where an emasculated Tony tried to recapture his virility and status. All of that is true. But the show had a habit of making the mental and physical weaknesses of its characters a punchline while at the same time taking them seriously.

How applicable that is to a wrestling setting, you're welcome to your opinion on. I haven't seen Nakazawa in a while but I expect he's doing something closer to pratfall comedy, so this is really comparing apples to shark fin soup. Just saying, that show had no problem making a joke of its main characters' weaknesses.

Edited by Andy in Kansas
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And none of those instances you pointed out exposed what they were doing as 'fake' nor did they diminish any of the characters.

They weren't breaking the 4th wall or having a fight scene where Tony gets beat up by Carmine Lupertazzi who has his hands in his pockets.
 

The Pine Barrens episode had some very funny humor, but Paulie and Christopher got involved in a skirmish with Valery, a large Russian with deep ties to the Russian mob and was a member of the notorious KGB and the Russian military.  It was believable that Paulie and Christopher could get involved in this mess and that Valery could have given them trouble given his size and what they alluded to about his background.  Then Paulie shot Valery in the head anyway.

Most of the humor had to deal with Paulie and Christopher trying to survive in the south Jersey woods without any supplies which they were never equipped to do and didn't diminish their characters because none of the other gangsters were equipped to survive in those woods either.

Part of Paulie's humor in general was that he was a prima donna who complained a lot, but that didn't diminish him from being a guy that you didn't want to mess with and again...didn't expose the fact that Paulie Gualtieri was actually Tony Sirico playing the part of a mobster and that he wasn't really beating up guys or killing guys that killed the compelling drama.

 

 

 

HoC

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12 hours ago, Hustler of Culture said:

I think AEW needs to stay away from the Santino type gimmicks.  Even though I don't like the Orange Cassidy gimmick and I think it has negative consequences, he has at least shown to move the ratings needle at times.  And if you bring in more comedy gimmicks, not only does it not separate the AEW product from the WWE product, but it makes somebody like Orange Cassidy less special.  It's very much like the old saying 'if every wrestler in your promotion is a giant, then you have no giants.'

 

Nokazawa is 45 years old, he's not going to help the promotion...he can only hurt the promotion.  Again, it's the issue that modern wrestlers and fans of modern wrestlers don't quite understand...the people that don't watch wrestling that used to aren't against comedy in wrestling, but to use comedy (which doesn't sell anywhere near as well as they think it does) at the expense of compelling drama and character credibility is bad.

 

Shows like the Sopranos used comedy and were often hilarious at times, but they didn't use it so it made their main characters look weaker or make the show and storylines look not believable.  They were careful about how satire was used.  But if they had no satire, I don't think that would have caused fans to stop watching the show.  So when I see a guy using baby oil to escape a hold or any of the other shenanigans, it just makes the opponent look like a buffoon and I've had my fill of that from watching Vince McMahon's product over the past several decades.

 

 

 

HoC

 

 

 

Nakazawa's value is that he's a jobber with some personality , and he's a translator for Japanese talent (which isn't very useful right now obviously- but they didn't know that at the time).

 

As for Orange Cassidy.  I think he's being used mostly right.  He's AEW's version of Yano effectively.   A guy who can beat anyone or lose to anyone, and has character-driven matches that shouldn't need a lot of bumps outside of PPV.   It pops the crowd too, even if he's not going to bring folks in- he helps make folks happy they came, which is important for repeat business.

 

Besides, with Trent now being out for a few months (torn pec), I suspect Orange is going to take Trent's place for a bit.

 

You're right in that there's a limit to how many comedy guys you can have, I think AEW is at the limit, but not over it.  That said, every promotion needs a Yano.

 

Edited by alstein
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22 hours ago, Goodear said:

Michael Nakazawa

Nakasawa is a strange case in that I don't think he's very good and his baby oil gimmick has overstayed its welcome and the thong claw is the worst thing I've ever seen but I still see a road for him I would want to see AEW pursue.

i read this part and couldn't imagine what you could possibly think up for Nak. i was ready to completely disagree.

then i read your suggestion, which, if used sparingly, could definitely work. keeping those revenge matches on Dark would give a reason for them to happen while not taking away from the "serious" side of things on Dynamite. good call out.

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Nyla Rose

Nyla doesn't get the booking protection she needs to really come off as the monster of the AEW women's division where she should find her largest success. Really they should have let her take Awesome Kong out to pass the mantel but they let Mel have that with no expectation that Mel was going to step into that role. They should really clear up Nyla's motivations as we don't seem to know much about Nyla the person and she's been around since the start of the promotion. Nyla has good offense but can look lost now and again (although not to the extent many of the women on Dark have this issue). She her top rope knee to a hanging opponent looks really good as does her powerbomb. She has a tendency to do too much to her opponents and have them kick out rather than having them avoid the moves entirely. Sometimes, you need to protect yourself when you're a monster that your best moves don't become devalued as it will hurt you more than it will an average sized competitor.

I'm really don't think Vickie Guerrero adds a lot to the presentation. Much like Jake Roberts, it seems like the managers talk to the audience while their client stands there. In ye olden days, it seemed like even mute guys like the Powers of Pain at least nodded along or something to indicate that they were grooving with what was being said. Nyla and Archer seem to be off in their own little worlds sometimes. Vickie in theory should be more of a heat magnet for Nyla but they don't mesh well enough for it to work. They don't seem to play off each other well enough for them to feel like a team. They feel like two individuals who stand next to each other. I also don't like the "Native beast" nickname as it comes too close to noble savage imagery and its better off avoided.

Nyla's in an odd position as she's already been champion and lost it before she had a chance to build any momentum before the loss to Shida. So you have to wonder if they will ever go back to her as the monster heel of the division when they've already blown the aura of invincibility with the quick change. I don't really see signs that AEW plans to do that in terms of having her doing anything important. But who is doing anything important in the women's division at all?

If anyone wants my opinion, they should handle Nyla's trans status the way they have been, by ignoring it completely.

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Orange Cassidy

Somewhere between a sloth and The Fonz is Orange Cassidy. And depending on who you ask or the story you are telling, Cassidy is either so cool he can't be bothered to move or so lazy he can't or some combination of the two that has lead to putting his hands in his pockets. Whatever the case may be, we can all agree that such a concept can work and I think was at its best when Cassidy would just appear in random places like the bathroom and people would react. I'm not as thrilled with the hands in the pockets thing as it fails the 'why has no one figured out what to do yet?' test when he does it as often as he does. Having everyone go for a clothesline so they can get into a rope running spot stretches believability to me. I'm okay with some wrestlers having jokey parts of their repertoire but I've never liked having to force people to react in a certain way for the spots to work and Cassidy does that too much for my taste.

Finish wise, I much prefer the Orange punch to the Mouse Trap. I've never really been a fan of pinning combination finishes going back to Tim Horner's bridging O'Connor roll. I think its fine to bust it out in bigger matches as a finish assuming that the guy can actually touch their toes. Cassidy's ability to sell in AEW is really hard to judge because its hard to tell from his character if he's hurt or bored or what he's doing. 

Booking wise, Orange should be riding high after winning a feud with Chris Jericho but I'm not sure he actually was able to get the rub out of it. Either Chris is unable to give the rub anymore or Cassidy couldn't carry it to the following feud with Miro. Cassidy feels no bigger than he was and that's not a good forecast for him going forward. If he's going to be the same regardless of the push, what's the point of pushing him?

 

 

 

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Ortiz

Proud and Powerful have been a bit of a let down since getting to AEW as far as I'm concerned with the initial prospect being that they would be the counter punch to the Young Bucks in the Inner Circle - Elite feud. But they never really let Santana and Ortiz really establish a dominant presence and they've been sort of floundering about every since including their feud with the Best Friends. Not that the matches weren't good, but that the faces went over when Ortiz and Santana needed a bit of a heat up.

Whenever I think about Ortiz, I think about his desire to do comedy with the plank splash and the tiger claw stuff and it really just doesn't help their presentation. Santana looks legitimately pissed off a lot which is great so to have his partner being so light creates a tonal disparity. If I was Ortiz, I would be watching tons and tons of Rick Steiner and try to capture that kind of energy where he (as a character) has fun but what he thinks is fun is terrible for other people. Ortiz can still be smiling while he's trying to maim someone and I think that's a better counterpoint to Santana than being strait goofy.

I like Ortiz's look with the overalls and boots. I think that's a keeper. I really wish AEW would let them do more as they've really taken a back seat for a while now and there is no real reason they couldn't be in the same conversations as FTR and The Bucks at the top of the tag ranks.

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On 12/25/2020 at 2:30 AM, alstein said:

 

Nakazawa's value is that he's a jobber with some personality , and he's a translator for Japanese talent (which isn't very useful right now obviously- but they didn't know that at the time).

 

As for Orange Cassidy.  I think he's being used mostly right.  He's AEW's version of Yano effectively.   A guy who can beat anyone or lose to anyone, and has character-driven matches that shouldn't need a lot of bumps outside of PPV.   It pops the crowd too, even if he's not going to bring folks in- he helps make folks happy they came, which is important for repeat business.

 

Besides, with Trent now being out for a few months (torn pec), I suspect Orange is going to take Trent's place for a bit.

 

You're right in that there's a limit to how many comedy guys you can have, I think AEW is at the limit, but not over it.  That said, every promotion needs a Yano.

 

I'm not a fan of Orange Cassidy, but I can see using him in lower level stuff because at this time the gimmick is a bit of a draw for AEW.  And as goofy as it is, it's a bit different from WWE's sense of humor.  And that's the key for AEW...avoid being too similar to WWE because it will either come off as bush league WWE and/or the fans that have left wrestling don't want to see it because they saw it with WWE and didn't like it.

I would also be afraid that the joke will get old really quick.  And if they invest a lot of money into OC and the joke gets old, now you just wasted a lot of money and resources for a guy that has go home heat.  

His main event run with Jericho didn't work very well as they had the lowest rated segment at one point.  Before that, the match with PAC diminished PAC.

But that's not so much a problem with OC as it was with AEW's main event stars who weren't as over as a gimmick wrestler.  I think they're better off having him at the top of the hour at 10 o'clock and announcing that he's going to be involved in the show when the show opens.  Keep his matche to a minimum and have him get over on talent that nobody cares about.

 

 

HoC

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Nyla Rose has a lot of potential, but the AEW women's division is filled with poorly trained and inexperienced talent and the overrated Joshi gals who don't understand westernized psychology and how work in front of a camera. Cornette brought up the possible transgender angle which I thought was interesting, but in today's climate I wouldn't touch that with a 100-foot pole.  

Rose has an established moveset that combines Rose's power and agility nicely. But Rose has geared it towards a moveset of a power wrestler who happens to be agile instead of Miro whose moveset looks like he's doing a Kyle O'Reilly impression.  Vader and Bigelow were such great examples of how to do this.  Vader had his moonsaults and the Vader bomb, but he moves were focused on power with the powerbomb, chokeslam, short arm lariat, samoan slam, etc.  This made Vader seemingly impossible to beat which is what you want from a monster.

Having the match they did with Rose and Riho was bordering horrendous outside of the great pop that Riho got when she won.  But at the same time it diminished Rose as not being a monster and she took a lot of steps backward into getting over as the monster and eventually a superstar.

Personally, I'd have Rose beat Kong as a changing of the guards and then make Rose this monster with Shida as her only true competitor until they get better talent.

 

 

 

HoC

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Pac

Pac is an example of a guy with lots and lots of positives who may be at his ceiling due to a perceived lack of personality. His relative lack of size in WWE is much less important in AEW where he looks on par in size with main eventers like Omega and bigger than some of the stars like Orange or Darby. He is a bit of a mush mouth when he has to speak into a live microphone, but let's be honest, he doesn't have to talk a ton in AEW where even their World champion is a very suspect promo. Gear, haircut and physique really work well together in putting together the package. I don't really like Pac as a name and I think he'd be better off with a regular first and last name rather than one syllable. 

Skill wise, Pac is really fucking good. He's strong, fast, agile and everything he does looks really good. Even for someone who does something as fancy as the Black Arrow, he is sure to milk it with a slow rise and steadying moment on the top tope. He also has a talent for hitting high flying moves with venom behind them as though he's adding in flips purely for the added impact and not for the spectacle. This was noted by several people all the way back in NXT when he has a match with Kevin Owens just after Owens turned on Zayn the first time. Angry 450s are a thing and Pac throws them. The Brutalizer was a good addition as a submission finish as well. If I were to rank people by ring skill on AEW, Pac might be at the very top above Omega for those who care about that.

I feel like the association with The Death Triangle and the subsequent feud with Eddie Kingston are missteps to be honest. I liked the idea that Pac was the heel version of Jon Moxley where he walked alone because he was too miserable for anyone to stand. So creating yet another faction felt like a default decision rather than one that came naturally. The feud with Kingston was cast oddly with the faces being given a talent advantage in terms of booking and then a numbers advantage in terms of adding Archer to the mix when they did not need him in there. The whole thing felt like Eddie was starting to be a dick to Fenix and Penta just to set up Pac's return when there was no sign of such treatment prior.

I want to see Pac higher on the card personally. I think he'd be a great TNT Champion and would be someone who could conceivably be put up as a challenger for a face World champion somewhere down the line. I think he's best cast as an aggressive heel. AEW could be doing more with him in my opinion.

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Penelope Ford

I had a lot more interest in Ford when she was interfering in Kip Sabian matches than now when she's a full time competitor. I don't know if she was more confident the guys were going to catch her so she flung herself around with more reckless abandon or what but she's admittedly more sold but also less interesting. I feel like her personality has really been put on the back burner since becoming an active competitor and trying to be more serious. AEW doesn't seem to be rewarding this either as she's not involved in much of anything (including her own wedding angle). 

Her wrestling is a mixed bag of being okay and trying to be spectacular and failing. She should never do the lethal injection again (to be fair... no one should) but the fisherman's suplex is pretty good if a bit under powered for 2020 AEW. Her everything in between is pretty inoffensive but she has most of the bad habits the AEW women do... bad lock ups, walking into strikes with their hands down, trying to do complicated things they aren't ready to do. I thought Penelope has potential to do something when she first started as a second but she's been mostly a let down.

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27 minutes ago, Goodear said:

I don't know if she was more confident the guys were going to catch her so she flung herself around with more reckless abandon

It really is just that. Women that tend to work with men on the indie scene just go all out like their 90’s Rey Mysterio. It becomes too habitual for them, so when they work with people who aren’t 10 times stronger than the men they tend to work with, they end up becoming completely different people in the ring. 

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@Goodear

It's interesting that you've taken down your Brodie Lee write-up. All things considered, that was probably the right choice.

Please allow me to make a gentle, Thumper-from-Bambi type suggestion: All of the pro wrestlers you are writing about here are human beings. They all, even Dr Luther and Joey Janella, have people who love and care about them.

Maybe, if there are things you want to say about them that you wouldn't stand behind if you were suddenly shocked into a reconsideration of their humanity... Maybe try phrasing those things with a bit more kindness and humility.

Edited by El Gran Gordi
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Here’s the thing. You can’t know when life is going to step up and slap you in the mouth. I can’t predict the future and have no way of knowing when tragedy will strike. I’ve been careful not to say anything about anyone as a human being but in retrospect speaking about Huber being injury prone would be in poor taste, especially knowing what we know now. A criticism of someone as a wrestler is not a personal assault by any stretch but someone dying changes matters substantially.

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It's not like anyone on the AEW roster ever looked at *this board* and saw a negative post about themself, and was emotionally hurt by it, is it?

Well, except that one time we know about, and that doesn't count. The guy who wrote it made them an EVP later.

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Just now, AxB said:

It's not like anyone on the AEW roster ever looked at *this board* and saw a negative post about themself, and was emotionally hurt by it, is it?

Well, except that one time we know about, and that doesn't count. The guy who wrote it made them an EVP later.

I still feel bad about the missile dropkick thing. 

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I would argue that there might be some real value in looking at people, including professional wrestlers, with more generous eyes - giving people the benefit of the doubt, trying to understand what they bring to the table, looking for the good in what they do,... - while they are still alive. 

EDIT: Of course, this doesn't mean that we can never criticize anyone. I just think that looking for the good and trying to understand people  is a better jumping-off point than going after the obvious flaws. We all have flaws. Most of us also have some good points. I think it's generally much better, for us and for them, to focus on the latter.

Edited by El Gran Gordi
just to head off the inevitable strawman
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