Greatest Horror of All Time - where to begin?

[RIPPA]

Okay - I want to get this and the documentary countdown onto people's radars.

Documentary will have an earlier deadline. The only thing I know for certain is that ballots should be due in Sept and the countdown done in October.

The two big questions around Horror

1) How are we defining Horror? 

2) Length of Ballot

I will expand on these in two separate posts that follow (So you can quote them if you want)

Once we hammer out details I will make another formal post

[RIPPA]

1) Definition of Horror

This list was posted in the Horror Thread 1000 Greatest Horror Movies of All Time

It basically takes a giant batch of best of lists and mashes them together (read the intro - it explains)

My gut feeling is that if you think something is Horror you can vote for it but know that if it is borderline - you better make sure to pimp it as to remind people otherwise your low vote won't make much difference

As per usual - I am assuming where the blurred lines will occur is the usual Horror/Suspense/Thriller area

I guess for an example: I would have never considered Silence of the Lambs "horror" but there it is at #29 on that List so now I am like "Well I guess I can vote for it then"

Or Shaun of the Dead (also on that list) - where I guess zombies automatically equals horror?

Anyway - you get what I am trying to say and I figured would should try to nail down at least some basic guidelines

[RIPPA]

2) Ballot Length

I figured for this I would use what I used for the earlier decades polls

Mix Length - 50

Max Length - 100

Maybe to just make life easier say 75 as a mid point

So turn in either a ballot with 50 movies, 75 movies or 100 movies

Thoughts???

[S.K.o.S.]

2 hours ago, RIPPA said:

1) Definition of Horror

If there's an argument as to whether something is horror, IMDB and Rotten Tomatoes would be good to refer to.  They both have genre classifications.

For the record, IMDB does not have Silence of the Lambs as horror, but RT does.

[odessasteps]

Horror comedy? Yea or nay?

 

[RIPPA]

2 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

Horror comedy? Yea or nay?

That was kinda my question with Shaun of the Dead

In general - I lean towards over inclusion but I don't want to make it overwhelming for folks

[odessasteps]

My first thought was Young Frankenstein. 

[RIPPA]

I would never consider Young Frankenstein horror

[odessasteps]

28 minutes ago, RIPPA said:

I would never consider Young Frankenstein horror

No, but its an amazing pastiche of Universal horror films. 

What about Bud and Lou meet Monster X? 

But then there's Student Bodies, which is a humorous horror movie.

[(BP)]

Abbott and Costello's monster movies were closer to Shaun of the Dead than Young Frankenstein. The monsters were always taken seriously, they just happened to be terrorizing nitwits who were funny. 

[piranesi]

56 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

But then there's Student Bodies, which is a humorous horror movie.

 

Like hell it is!

It's the Hugh Morris of humor and the Bill Demott of being scary.

[odessasteps]

If i recall correctly, 12 year old me liked the movie just fine. *cough* boobs *cough* 

[piranesi]

The most important decision that needs to be made is what is the cover story is going to be for banning Fowler from the board for the extent of this process.

 

Because he is terrible.

 

[J.T.]

On face value, Mark's questions look pretty crazy, but he does have a valid point. 

As you have said, Rippa, there will have to be a little pimping done to address all of the genre bending stuff that may or may not fit. 

Are Alien and Ex Machina horror movies or are they sci-fi?  Why can't they be both?  Are they sci-fi movies with horror elements (whatever the fuck that means) or are they horror movies masquerading as sci-fi movies?

Is Silence of the Lambs a horror movie or a psychological thriller.  Is A Snake Of June a suspenseful thriller, a love story, or is it erotica?

It will pain me to have to make arguments for some of my picks as my personal definition of horror is fluid yet restrictive, but the answer of "Is it?" should still be self evident.

Is Gojira? Yes.  Is Godzilla vs. Megalon? No. Is Shin Godzilla? Yes.

Is Red Dragon?  Maybe.  Is Manhunter? Not really. How can I draw those conclusions when they're both drawn from the same source material?  Easily.

Young Frankenstein and Student Bodies are parodies at best, Mark.  That should be fucking obvious.

I'd have given you a bit more credit on your horror comedy issue if you'd have tried to make the argument that something like Shaun Of The Dead or Get Out should be considered. (YES~!)

If it feels like a horror movie to you, put it on your ballot.  Chances are that someone else will have voted for it too.

 

[odessasteps]

Now wondering if i could come up with 25 or 50 horror comedies. 

Honestly, if i did a list, it would be val lewton, Argento, Phibes/theatre of blood/conqueror worm, wicker man and Ken Russell's Gothic. (Not sure how to work in Hitch)

[J.T.]

Psycho and The Birds should be easy calls. (Fuck yeah!). 

I don't think anyone will make the argument that something like Vertigo or Rear Window is a horror film.

I sincerely hope that Jingus casts a shadow balliot for this thing.

Let's definitely get the Documentaries project off of the ground before we tackle horror movies.

[S.K.o.S.]

The goings-on in the documentary thread inspire me to ask: Can we put documentaries on our horror list?

J.T. mentioned Why Horror? and His Name Was Jason.  The Nightmare and Never Sleep Again also come to mind for me.  Does a documentary about something scary, or a documentary about horror movies, count as a horror movie itself?

 

[RIPPA]

I am fine with that but I am going say right now I highly doubt it would make the final countdown

Of course - it also depends on how many folks vote, etc...

So just as an example - it might only take you and JT voting for it to make it (but it would be unlikely)

Long answer short - I allowed docs on the GOAT of all time so I would allow them here

[OSJ]

Let's make it easy from someone who does the scary stuff for a living... (I hate playing the pro horror writer card, but it may save us a lot of time.) Here are a couple of definitions (neither of them mine originally), that I think can pretty well cover things: "Horror is an emotional reaction to something." I agree, and by that definition a documentary on the Killing Fields unsettles me far more than a million Freddy vs. Jasons. 

Definition two: Terror is when you see something awful happening or about to happen to someone else. "Horror" is when you realize that the something awful is likely to happen to you.

To address JT's point re SOTL and Manhunter, Manhunter is an excellent suspense film with maybe one horrific sequence in it. SOTL invokes that visceral reaction from almost the first scene. One is definitely a horror film, the other is not (unless one has a really weak stomach.) 

Red Dragon and Manhunter are an excellent example of how one can go in two different directions from the same source material. I like both, for different reasons, but wouldn't consider either to be "horror" as I understand it.

Anyone that thinks Shaun of the Dead or Young Frankenstein is a horror film needs to read one of my books.

[RIPPA]

1 minute ago, OSJ said:

Anyone that thinks Shaun of the Dead or Young Frankenstein is a horror film needs to read one of my books.

While I am not disagreeing with your general point - Shaun of the Dead is coded as Horror on both IMDB and RT and appears on many "best of" lists and is eligible here

I think I am leaning towards that being the standard: If either IMDB or RT puts a movie in the "horror" genre it counts

[OSJ]

Just now, RIPPA said:

While I am not disagreeing with your general point - Shaun of the Dead is coded as Horror on both IMDB and RT and appears on many "best of" lists and is eligible here

I think I am leaning towards that being the standard: If either IMDB or RT puts a movie in the "horror" genre it counts

That's fair. Just don't blame me when Killer Clowns from Outer Space makes the top five.

[RIPPA]

God I hated that movie when I was a child and was a big reason I loathe clowns now (most of that is IT but still)

That is something I am going to need to consider when voting.

If something scared the beejesus out of me but wasn't necessarily good - isn't it still doing its job and deserve to be on my list?

[OSJ]

8 minutes ago, RIPPA said:

God I hated that movie when I was a child and was a big reason I loathe clowns now (most of that is IT but still)

That is something I am going to need to consider when voting.

If something scared the beejesus out of me but wasn't necessarily good - isn't it still doing its job and deserve to be on my list?

I would say "yes". As an example, Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer disturbed the shit out of me and Kathy when it first came out. I don't think it has held up particularly well, but damn it was incredible back in the day. Pretty sure it will be on my ballot somewhere.

[Curt McGirt]

I'm drawing the line on horror comedy at The Return of the Living Dead, Dead Alive, and Bad Taste. Shaun isn't gonna be on mine. It's just not dark enough. 

And contrary to Jodie Foster, the studio, and unfortunately Rippa's opinion, The Silence of the Lambs is definitely a horror film. Manhunter I can make a go for just because it's so dark and so good. Red Dragon might've been gorier but it didn't have the emotional resonance of Manhunter. 

Really overall, my opinion is make it a free-for-all, and be prepared to be mocked and argue over why you inserted 'X' into your list. 

EDIT: Side note, speaking of dark, you'd be surprised how much darker and more 'horror' Young Frankenstein feels watching it on the big screen.

[S.K.o.S.]

1 hour ago, Curt McGirt said:

Really overall, my opinion is make it a free-for-all, and be prepared to be mocked and argue over why you inserted 'X' into your list. 

This is strangely appealing.