Elsalvajeloco Posted March 2, 2017 Author Share Posted March 2, 2017 19 minutes ago, TheVileOne said: I doubt either guy is celebrating in the streets they've been blatantly passed over here. But that has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. Why the fuck would anyone want to fight Bisping if he lost a non title fight to GSP, someone who is a much bigger draw than Bisping, at 185? Yeah, I finally get my title shot but I'm going to forego potentially making more than I ever made to fight someone who just lost a fight for the money I was going to make anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVileOne Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 10 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said: But that has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. Why the fuck would anyone want to fight Bisping if he lost a non title fight to GSP, someone who is a much bigger draw than Bisping, at 185? Yeah, I finally get my title shot but I'm going to forego potentially making more than I ever made to fight someone who just lost a fight for the money I was going to make anyway. They aren't getting PPV points if they fight GSP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
username Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 My thought, beyond how much this sucks for all the top fighters at middleweight, is what happens if GSP wins which I think is a legit possibility. Him moving up to fight Bisping, who is a weight class bigger and champ but has traditionally been about the #7-10 guy in the division, is one thing. Him having to fight any of the other top four guys in the division is something else entirely. What does he even do against say Jacare? I'm not entirely sure he sticks up at 185 for that in which case chaos. I get the whole money fight mentality and won't argue against it from a business perspective, but I'd be lying if I said I don't miss the days when the titles were less subject to the whims of them. 145, 155 and now 185 are just looking like messes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted March 2, 2017 Author Share Posted March 2, 2017 20 minutes ago, TheVileOne said: They aren't getting PPV points if they fight GSP. Who said anything about PPV points? You realize how many folks have raised a stink about money since last summer? We almost didn't have Khabib and Ferguson THIS WEEKEND over money. Any manager worth his weight especially now isn't going to let you fight GSP on your current deal as is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 17 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said: My guess would be August or September, but that might be the International Fight Week headliner. I think they would want to see how Cormier/Rumble II goes before trying to see if they can have the winner fight JBJ. The fight is in early to mid April, but that's pushing it in terms of trying to promote a fight that might not happen for various reasons. Waiting for Logan to start yesterday, I boobed online on my phone and let an ooh out at the announcement. GSP's first fight since November 2013 moving up in weight for Michael Bisping's UFC Middleweight Championship. GSP, Conor, Brock and Ronda the big draws. Hope I've not missed an obvious one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxB Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 8 hours ago, TheVileOne said: I kind of feel like it should be a non-title fight, but whatever. Champions should only do non-title fights if they're off weight. If you're the Champion at 185, and someone beats you at 185, you're not the Champion, are you? Besides which, if it's not happening for six months and then it's not for the title, you're basically giving it most/all of a year without the belt being defended (unless Bisping does defend it in the Summer, before he fights GSP). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Randy Couture vs. Tim Sylvia 10 year anniversary tomorrow. One of my favourite ever fights as Randy Couture comes out of retirement regaining the UFC Heavyweight Championship winning every round. THAT opening 20 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted March 2, 2017 Author Share Posted March 2, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 11 hours ago, username said: My thought, beyond how much this sucks for all the top fighters at middleweight, is what happens if GSP wins which I think is a legit possibility. Him moving up to fight Bisping, who is a weight class bigger and champ but has traditionally been about the #7-10 guy in the division, is one thing. Him having to fight any of the other top four guys in the division is something else entirely. What does he even do against say Jacare? I'm not entirely sure he sticks up at 185 for that in which case chaos. Jacare is someone I think GSP could beat on his best day, but I have no idea how he fights someone like Yoel Romero. Romero is bigger, stronger, a better wrestler, and someone with one shot knockout power. GSP would not have a single advantage in that fight on paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted March 2, 2017 Author Share Posted March 2, 2017 2 minutes ago, supremebve said: Jacare is someone I think GSP could beat on his best day, but I have no idea how he fights someone like Yoel Romero. Romero is bigger, stronger, a better wrestler, and someone with one shot knockout power. GSP would not have a single advantage in that fight on paper. Personally, I think Jacare houses GSP. With Romero, you can't count on how active he will be. I think it's a bad matchup for Georges, but he can steal rounds possibly based on inactivity. Against Jacare, I don't think Georges would survive 3 minutes on the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 1 minute ago, Elsalvajeloco said: Personally, I think Jacare houses GSP. With Romero, you can't count on how active he will be. I think it's a bad matchup for Georges, but he can steal rounds possibly based on inactivity. Against Jacare, I don't think Georges would survive 3 minutes on the ground. I think GSP's takedown defense is good enough to keep the fight standing and he's a better striker than Jacare. Jacare is a decent striker, but his striking isn't tricky or diverse enough to really give someone with GSP's defensive skills that much trouble. I don't know who would actually win the fight, but he has ways to win that fight. Romero, Weidman, Rockholt, etc. are nightmare matchups for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted March 2, 2017 Author Share Posted March 2, 2017 7 minutes ago, supremebve said: I think GSP's takedown defense is good enough to keep the fight standing Yeah, I'm gonna have to disagree with that. Jacare is insanely strong, and more importantly, has diverse ways to get a fight down to the ground. The guy is a converted judoka who became a world class, elite BJJ player. Moreover, coming in as the bigger man, he has fought and taken down fighters much bigger than GSP. If you have no trouble running through fighters who show up between 210-220 lbs on fight night and stand between 6'0" to 6'3", why would you have trouble doing that against someone 5'9" or 5'10" and 190-195 pounds? He's going to get him down eventually, and if GSP doesn't get up immediately, he is fucked. Since he begam working with Rogerio Camoes, Jacare's functional strength has stellar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 1 minute ago, Elsalvajeloco said: Yeah, I'm gonna have to disagree with that. Jacare is insanely strong, and more importantly, has diverse ways to get a fight down to the ground. The guy is a converted judoka who became a world class, elite BJJ player. Moreover, coming in as the bigger man, he has fought and taken down fighters much bigger than GSP. If you have no trouble running through fighters who show up between 210-220 lbs on fight night and stand between 6'0" to 6'3", why would you have trouble doing that against someone 5'9" or 5'10" and 190-195 pounds? He's going to get him down eventually, and if GSP doesn't get up immediately, he is fucked. I'm not denying the validity of any of that. I'd argue that Jacare is the best middleweight in the world, he just happens to be the one who has the style that GSP matches up with the best. GSP vs. Bisping is a stupid fucking fight to make. Michael Bisping is a really good fighter, but I don't think there is a person outside of the Bisping household who believes he's the best middleweight in the world. He won the championship fair and square, but if he fought Rockhold 100 times I'd pick Rockhold every single time. He's essentially Matt Serra, a guy who has been around for a long time, who made the best out of his championship opportunity. If GSP is anywhere close to what he was when he left, I think he beats Bisping. If GSP wins, the division is going to be even crazier. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted March 2, 2017 Author Share Posted March 2, 2017 20 hours ago, supremebve said: I'm not denying the validity of any of that. I'd argue that Jacare is the best middleweight in the world, he just happens to be the one who has the style that GSP matches up with the best. I'm just at the opposite end of the spectrum on that because Jacare's grappling IMO is the only known quantity. GSP was a great striker, but we don't know how good that's going to be 4 years older. Moreover, with his grappling, that's an unknown because part of what made it great was he was bigger and stronger than everyone else when he went to train with Jonathan Chaimberg. Part of what makes Chaimberg good at his job is what made him problematic w/ almost everyone else: he runs people ragged with killer workouts. I think that Ann Wolfe type approach might have done more damage to GSP long term that I dunno if a long layoff could help him recover from a decade of wear and tear. So against guys who are comparable in size, I would feel more confident Georges would do well. Maybe not pristine, prime GSP, but well enough to win fights. To do it against Jacare, Romero, Weidman, Mousasi, Rockhold, and even Bisping is a whole different task altogether. He isn't fighting wrestlers who are showing up around or below his own weight. He's fighting guys who are also well rounded who are much bigger than him. 20 hours ago, supremebve said: GSP vs. Bisping is a stupid fucking fight to make. Michael Bisping is a really good fighter, but I don't think there is a person outside of the Bisping household who believes he's the best middleweight in the world. He won the championship fair and square, but if he fought Rockhold 100 times I'd pick Rockhold every single time. He's essentially Matt Serra, a guy who has been around for a long time, who made the best out of his championship opportunity. If GSP is anywhere close to what he was when he left, I think he beats Bisping. If GSP wins, the division is going to be even crazier. In terms of legacy and legitimacy, I like the fight because Bisping is the champ and I always wanted to see what GSP could do at 185. I wouldn't go as far as say Mike is another Serra because Rockhold was losing that second fight PRIOR to getting knocked smooth out. Bisping has always been a legitimate middleweight. He was no worse than a top 15 fighter for most of his career, but getting with Parillo, he transformed into a legitimate top 10 or even a top 5 middleweight. He was more confident and showed more ability than he did when he was at Wolfslair and not listening to his trainers. I think Serra was a decent to good fighter, but the guy was an alright lightweight fighting at welterweight. Serra managed to win a reality show and basically catch GSP slipping when MMA was still transitioning as a sport and GSP hadn't even really became GSP. I would compare it to Lennox Lewis pre McCall I and post McCall I when he got with Emanuel Steward. Serra fought GSP pre Jackson/Danaher/Nurse/etc. Michael Bisping beat Luke Rockhold in Rockhold's physical prime and was winning the fight prior to KO'ing Rockhold. GSP/Serra I, in hindsight, proved that GSP wasn't all there yet. Rockhold/Bisping II proved that this ain't Silva's MW division from 06-10. You can't take any nights off and just do stuff against top fighters. You will lose. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted March 2, 2017 Author Share Posted March 2, 2017 Also, Renato Moicano is fighting Jeremy Stephens on the KC card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiji Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 I can't even imagine the stanky legg Struve would've been doing in there with Ngannou. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted March 2, 2017 Author Share Posted March 2, 2017 At this point, it's one of those fights I'm not exactly mad with someone using the "Yeah, I'm kinda hurt" line for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
username Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Yeah, with Romero he's the guy with all the gifts who doesn't quite show up throughout the duration of his fights. When he's dialed in he may murder GSP but I could see GSP combining movement and a jab (regardless of reach issues) and Romero passively letting him do so for too long. Jacare would likely just maul him in a brutal fashion, and I think everyone involved knows this. That is why I'm kinda cautious about what the fallout will be should GSP win as would they allow that fight to be made even if he ends up being the legit top contender? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted March 3, 2017 Author Share Posted March 3, 2017 Just now, username said: Yeah, with Romero he's the guy with all the gifts who doesn't quite show up throughout the duration of his fights. When he's dialed in he may murder GSP but I could see GSP combining movement and a jab (regardless of reach issues) and Romero passively letting him do so for too long. Jacare would likely just maul him in a brutal fashion, and I think everyone involved knows this. That is why I'm kinda cautious about what the fallout will be should GSP win as would they allow that fight to be made even if he ends up being the legit top contender? It would ultimately fall on GSP and how that fight went. I think GSP vs. Romero/Jacare would do good on PPV if he doesn't have to rematch Bisping. However, either fight wouldn't do the business of fighting Anderson Silva after years of it not happening or some weird catchweight fight with McGregor. At 35, every fight is going to be extremely risky but winning provides high rewards. I would think they would want to make Romero or Jacare the immediate next person to challenge for MW title, but if a door opens wide, they're going to walk through it. That's something that should be pretty obvious by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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