Elsalvajeloco

2017 Non-Event General MMA Talk Thread

547 posts in this topic

This thread is for:

- General opinions

- Fight and event cancellations (NOT events that have a thread and are cancelled/ppd.)

- Videos (anything not under the official UFC, Bellator, WSOF, Invicta, & Glory YouTube/social media accounts or closely affiliated accounts is PROHIBITED. Anything below the AXS or NBC Sports level (local regional MMA) is fine until further notice. Non-North American content is fine depending on the promotion. Non-North American content of events that are going at that moment (meaning live or just occurred) should be posted in the Bellator, AXS TV, RIZIN and Invicta thread. Any post asking for official content of the aforementioned promotions through illegal means, torrents, or streaming links will be immediately deleted w/o hesitation.)

- Fights being made

- Announcements and happenings that don't really need or have their own thread

- News for Bellator and UFC events that don't have a thread yet

- Signings

- Miscellaneous stuff that doesn't fit into any other pinned thread

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Currently working on the superlatives for 2016. Here is a rough draft of the nominees:

Them's Fightin' Words Awards: Worst Fight of the Year  

  1. Ferguson (aka Kimbo Slice) vs. Harris (aka Dada 5000)
  2. Moroz vs. Taylor
  3. Carvalho vs. Manhoef
  4. Moraga vs. Nicolau Pereira
  5. Gabi Garcia vs. Yumiko Hotta
  6. TBD

Them's Fightin' Words Awards: Breakout Fighter of the Year 

  1. Misha Cirkunov
  2. Jared Cannonier
  3. Vicente Luque
  4. Jason Knight
  5. Francis Ngannou
  6. Megan Anderson

Them's Fightin' Words Awards: Kick/Boxing Fighter of the Year 

  1. Carl Frampton
  2. Terence Crawford
  3. Jermall Charlo
  4. Rico Verhoeven
  5. Sitthichai Sitsongpeenong
  6. Jason Wilnis

Them's Fightin' Words Awards: Comeback Fighter of the Year 

  1. Angela Hill
  2. Khabib Nurmagomedov
  3. Cub Swanson
  4. Dominick Cruz
  5. Cezar Ferreira
  6. Gegard Mousasi

On the Bubble: Jessica Andrade, Alexa Grasso

 Them's Fightin' Words Awards: Robbery of the Year 

  1. Carvalho vs. Manhoef
  2. Evans-Smith vs. Reneau
  3. Volkov vs. Johnson
  4. Morono vs. Noke
  5. Barzola vs. Bochniak
  6. TBD

Them's Fightin' Words Awards: Event of the Year 

  1. UFN 81: Dillashaw vs. Cruz
  2. UFC 198
  3. UFC 199
  4. UFC 202
  5. UFC 205
  6. UFC 206

Them's Fightin' Words Awards: Submission of the Year

  1. Barnett vs. Rothwell
  2. McGregor vs. Diaz I
  3. Holm vs. Tate
  4. Chiesa vs. Dariush
  5. Felder vs. Cruickshank
  6. Maia vs. Condit

Them's Fightin' Words Awards: Knockout of the Year

  1. Vannata/Makdessi
  2. Werdum/Miocic
  3. Rodriguez/Fili
  4. Rockhold/Bisping
  5. Weidman/Romero
  6. Johnson/Teixeira

On the Bubble: Hunt vs. Mir, Lawler vs. Woodley

Them's Fightin' Words Awards: Fight of the Year

  1. Lawler vs. Condit
  2. Choi vs. Swanson
  3. Maestro Kim vs. Reyes
  4. Dillashaw vs. Cruz
  5. Diaz vs. McGregor II
  6. Silva vs. Bisping

On the Bubble: Ferguson vs. Vannata, Jędrzejczyk vs. Gadelha II

Them's Fightin' Words Awards: Fighter of the Year

  1. Cody Garbrandt
  2. Conor McGregor
  3. Amanda Nunes
  4. Stipe Miocic
  5. Michael Bisping
  6. Donald Cerrone

The potential nominees in the italics are the ones I am very flexible on. This isn't for who you'll vote for specifically, but for who should be in each category. Anything that needs to be in or out? Fight, KO, and Submission of the Year are probably going to be more contentious so I wouldn't mind opinions on those. 

Addendum: I'm trying to stay away from having two picks from the same show. For example, Barzola/Bochniak was my pick for Robbery of the Year over Lauzon/Miller, which happened later that night.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So it looks like the replacement for Goldberg in the UFC is Todd Grisham.  At least for 4 matches to see if he can do it.   While he was really pretty awful calling matches in the WWE he has gotten better at ESPN.  

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got to meet and speak with Grisham in person when I did get to cover UFC events, and he seemed like a nice enough guy.  However, I was never a fan of his play-by-play work in WWE.  I just can't picture him doing UFC.  Now maybe he could surprise us.  But if you are going to replace Mike Goldberg as the voice of the UFC, this choice is extremely weird.  

Then again, I'm not a regular ESPN viewer, so I have no idea if he's been calling professional sports regularly and knows his shit and has improved exponentially.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He was fine doing Glory and hosting FNF (when it was still a thing). If they want someone who is professional, doesn't fall apart on camera, and to fill in where Goldberg left off, I don't see this as a weird choice at all. I didn't mind Goldberg (even if he did make like 75 gaffes per event), but anyone they choose is going to be a lateral move at worst except for Todd Harris. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

 

Add Mirsad Bektic vs. Darren Elkins to that as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Elsalvajeloco. You’ve done a good job. My MMA suggestions:

Argument for Dominick Cruz as a Comeback Fighter of the Year nominee despite losing his last fight. To comeback from those bad injuries and regain the UFC Bantamweight Championship he had to vacate because of them.

Submission of the Year: Demian Maia tapping Carlos Condit out quickly.

Knockout of the Year: Stipe Miocic on Fabricio Werdum, Dan Henderson Head kick/standing elbow to Hector Lombard. Mark Hunt’s to Frank Mir and Cowboy’s to Rick Story and Matt Brown.

Fight of the Year: A big one I’d say you’re missing is Michael Bisping vs. Anderson Silva. You said one pick per show so either Nate Diaz vs. Conor McGregor I or Miesha Tate vs. Holly Holm. I’d throw Dominick Cruz vs. TJ Dillashaw, McGregor vs. Diaz II and Cody Garbant vs. Cruz into the Octagon.

Fighter of the Year. I understand why Notorious is there even though he lost a fight, same for the Dominator? Donald Cerrone moved up to Welterweight: 4 wins, 4 finishes and 2 stopped by strikes for the first time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, The Natural said:

@Elsalvajeloco. You’ve done a good job. My MMA suggestions:

Argument for Dominick Cruz as a Comeback Fighter of the Year nominee despite losing his last fight. To comeback from those bad injuries and regain the UFC Bantamweight Championship he had to vacate because of them.

Submission of the Year: Demian Maia tapping Carlos Condit out quickly.

Knockout of the Year: Stipe Miocic on Fabricio Werdum, Dan Henderson Head kick/standing elbow to Hector Lombard. Mark Hunt’s to Frank Mir and Cowboy’s to Rick Story and Matt Brown.

Fight of the Year: A big one I’d say you’re missing is Michael Bisping vs. Anderson Silva. You said one pick per show so either Nate Diaz vs. Conor McGregor I or Miesha Tate vs. Holly Holm. I’d throw Dominick Cruz vs. TJ Dillashaw, McGregor vs. Diaz II and Cody Garbant vs. Cruz into the Octagon.

Fighter of the Year. I understand why Notorious is there even though he lost a fight, same for the Dominator? Donald Cerrone moved up to Welterweight: 4 wins, 4 finishes and 2 stopped by strikes for the first time.

Right now, I feel more compelled about adding Cruz to Comeback Fighter of the Year than Fighter of the Year. I think if Conor didn't move up and defeat Alvarez the way he did, I doubt he is a nominee unless he had a comparative win to cap the year.

Yeah, Maia vs. Condit makes sense to be added to the Submissions category.

Hendo/Lombard would be on the KO list if I didn't have Rockhold/Bisping II. I was debating on Werdum/Miocic and wanted someone to either support it or not just because IMO it may be a more a comical one than a legitimate one. However, it seems to be an award darling so far so it's hard to deny it now. I am going to remove MVP/Cyborg and add that. I would pick Vannata/Makdessi over Cerrone/Brown from the 206 choices. The same with Rumble/Teixeira over Cerrone/Story. However, to make up for now adding Cerrone for either finish, I can definitely add him to the Fighter of the Year. I think if Hunt vs. Mir had bigger contendership ramifications, I would add it and remove one of the other nominees that didn't have those ramifications.

If Swanson/DHC wasn't an epic fight, I would add Cruz vs. Garbrandt. Out of the choices you listed, I would add Silva vs. Bisping, Cruz vs. Dillashaw, and Diaz vs. McGregor II (out of the two fights).

Also, I am adding UFC 206 to the event of the year nominees.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Right now, I feel more compelled about adding Cruz to Comeback Fighter of the Year than Fighter of the Year. I think if Conor didn't move up and defeat Alvarez the way he did, I doubt he is a nominee unless he had a comparative win to cap the year.

Yeah, Maia vs. Condit makes sense to be added to the Submissions category.

Hendo/Lombard would be on the KO list if I didn't have Rockhold/Bisping II. I was debating on Werdum/Miocic and wanted someone to either support it or not just because IMO it may be a more a comical one than a legitimate one. However, it seems to be an award darling so far so it's hard to deny it now. I am going to remove MVP/Cyborg and add that. I would pick Vannata/Makdessi over Cerrone/Brown from the 206 choices. The same with Rumble/Teixeira over Cerrone/Story. However, to make up for now adding Cerrone for either finish, I can definitely add him to the Fighter of the Year. I think if Hunt vs. Mir had bigger contendership ramifications, I would add it and remove one of the other nominees that didn't have those ramifications.

If Swanson/DHC wasn't an epic fight, I would add Cruz vs. Garbrandt. Out of the choices you listed, I would add Silva vs. Bisping, Cruz vs. Dillashaw, and Diaz vs. McGregor II (out of the two fights).

Also, I am adding UFC 206 to the event of the year nominees.

Thank you for listening to my recommendations, @Elsalvajeloco.

I agree with you Dominick Cruz is better for Comeback Fighter of the Year than Fighter of the Year. For me it's the best MMA comeback ever for the adversity he had to go through and how he relies on movement/his style unique to him. I also agree Conor only makes Fighter of the Year for becoming the first fighter to hold two UFC titles at once, he's a miss otherwise.

I forgot Hendo/Lombard was on the same show as Rockhold/Bisping II, ditto for the UFC 206 KO choices and Rumble/Teixeira over Cerrone/Story. You went with the right ones for all three. Miocic KO on Werdum appealed for the reasons you say, comical and legitimate plus shutting the hometown crowd up as well! I picked Hunt vs. Mir as I don't like Frank, it was another walkoff KO for Hunt and seeing Mir having no clue where he was ; ).

Good seeing Cowboy as a Fighter of the Year nominee now. Cheers for adding Silva vs. Bisping, Cruz vs. Dillashaw and Diaz vs. McGregor II to Fight of the Year choices and Maia subbing Condit to Submission of the Year.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, The Natural said:

Thank you for listening to my recommendations, @Elsalvajeloco.

I agree with you Dominick Cruz is better for Comeback Fighter of the Year than Fighter of the Year. For me it's the best MMA comeback ever for the adversity he had to go through and how he relies on movement/his style unique to him. I also agree Conor only makes Fighter of the Year for becoming the first fighter to hold two UFC titles at once, he's a miss otherwise.

I forgot Hendo/Lombard was on the same show as Rockhold/Bisping II, ditto for the UFC 206 KO choices and Rumble/Teixeira over Cerrone/Story. You went with the right ones for all three. Miocic KO on Werdum appealed for the reasons you say, comical and legitimate plus shutting the hometown crowd up as well! I picked Hunt vs. Mir as I don't like Frank, it was another walkoff KO for Hunt and seeing Mir having no clue where he was ; ).

Good seeing Cowboy as a Fighter of the Year nominee now. Cheers for adding Silva vs. Bisping, Cruz vs. Dillashaw and Diaz vs. McGregor II to Fight of the Year choices and Maia subbing Condit to Submission of the Year.

BTW, I added Hunt vs. Mir to the on the bubble/honorable mentions. If it garners some more support in the next 2-3 days, I am open to adding it to the final nominees list somehow. Same goes for the other "on the bubble" nominees for the categories that have already been filled.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, it looks like Hunt vs. Overeem is indeed on for UFC 209. Hunt gave up on the clause thing for now at least.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Worst fight of the year nominee Garcia vs. Hotta maybe Fitch vs. Shields

Best fight of the year nominees Joanna vs. Gadelha and Hill vs. Souza

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

willing to bet both Bader and Larkin stay put in the UFC. i would hope the UFC wouldn't let them go easily anyway

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, twiztor said:

willing to bet both Bader and Larkin stay put in the UFC. i would hope the UFC wouldn't let them go easily anyway

With Bader...I dunno. Phil Davis isn't exactly lighting Bellator up as far as the ratings go and he's in supposedly one of their marquee divisions as champ. In a division where you can possibly throw him in there with a King Mo or Chael Sonnen to get close to a half decent rating, it makes sense for Bellator. Their depth problems are a serious issue.

I think it would have made sense for Bellator to bring in Larkin as you can use in multiple weight classes in needed. The problem is the compensation. A dude like Larkin, who is basically stuck in the middle of the pack in a loaded division, is going to struggle to get the money he wants. The Magny win was good and damn impressive considering how good Magny has gotten, but it's Neil Magny. Bellator looks for people who have wins over either recent champs or current champs. That win over Lawler was so long ago in MMA time, and then Lawler got knocked off the top of the division. So it's hard to parade that victory around. Larkin also isn't a star and didn't main event a UFC card. So what utility does Bellator receive from him other than the possibility of exciting fights? They're a company stuck in a rut, and they're looking for serious starpower to build up their brand. If they had to pick one of those two fighters in free agency, they would go after Bader way before Larkin. So it makes sense he's getting an offer, and Larkin is getting the Aljamain Sterling treatment. When you're desperate, anything resembling daylight is looks delightful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Bader's got a better shot at signing with Bellator then Larkin.

Bader vs. Davis 2 he we come.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That will be a sloppy, wild brawl. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What about Mackenzie Dern's omoplata/RNC on Montana Stewart at Legacy FC 61 for submission of the year?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, WholeFnMachine said:

What about Mackenzie Dern's omoplata/RNC on Montana Stewart at Legacy FC 61 for submission of the year?

If Dern had done that on someone notable, it would certainly be on the list.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Added Megan Anderson to the Breakout Fighter nominee list.

Still need one more good Worst Fight and Robbery nominee.

Any self proclaimed kickboxing (or boxing) gurus have a good candidate for that category? Boxing was a bit strange in 2016 because I don't feel like there was an outright leader. There are like five or six people I could've used for the on the bubble list.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Three news bits:

Raquel Pennington is out for at least 6-9 months after surgery to repair a torn bicep (and other injuries).

Looks like Jacare is fighting Tim Boetsch on the UFC 208 card.

Khabib Nurmagomedov has moved on from the Ferguson fight, but is still set on fighting at UFC 209. Michael Chiesa is a possible opponent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Added Megan Anderson to the Breakout Fighter nominee list.

Still need one more good Worst Fight and Robbery nominee.

Any self proclaimed kickboxing (or boxing) gurus have a good candidate for that category? Boxing was a bit strange in 2016 because I don't feel like there was an outright leader. There are like five or six people I could've used for the on the bubble list.

Robbery of the Year  Bethe vs. Eye in the crowds mind and Taylor vs. Seo Hee Ham

You could also add Taylor vs. Ham to worst fight of the year if it's the one I'm thinking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agree on the latter. 

I strongly disagree on Gabi/Hotta's inclusion on any worst list. It should be the honorary spectacle of the year. It completely succeeded in its goal to further establish Garcia and bring the wackiness. And boy did it bring the wackiness! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Oyaji said:

Agree on the latter. 

I strongly disagree on Gabi/Hotta's inclusion on any worst list. It should be the honorary spectacle of the year. It completely succeeded in its goal to further establish Garcia and bring the wackiness. And boy did it bring the wackiness! 

The reason I didn't initially include that is I'm not really about putting obvious gimmick/comedy matches on the worst fight list. Now while Garcia/Lei'd Tapa was one, they were BOTH trying to legit compete and it was still sub-Tough Woman contest levels of horrendous. Garcia/Hotta would be something that would fit right in on like a HUSTLE show from years ago.

Still debating on whether or not to include it, but there aren't a ton of options off the top of mind. There were several pedestrian fights between UFC, Bellator, WSOF, but not too many outright bad ones. Lewis/Abdurakhimov would be on the list if it didn't have the finish.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now