IT'S STILL THE NFL PRESEASON

[dogwelder]

3 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Jags got rid of him.  Then the 49ers tried him last season and he didn't do anything. Now he's back "competing" for the job again this year.  Kaepernick has only had one bad stretch of games and is barely seeing the field. His resume shits on Gabbert's career but he's not even being given a proper second chance.

Ok, I see what you mean.  Why is this happening?  Who the hell knows.  We've seen, though, that Chip Kelly doesn't have a good handle on personnel most of the time.  And based on how 49ers management dealt with Harbaugh, who knows what they're thinking.

[Kevin Wilson]

I think what people are saying is that Kaep's resume isn't the point, he has gotten injured since his better seasons and defenses figured him out. What he did three years ago isn't really a factor. In 2015, Gabbert had a better rating and completion percentage than Kaep, and what happened last season is more relevant to San Fran than what happened in the years prior.

[Niners Fan in CT]

It's clear that @evilwaldo does not watch 49ers games or at least hasn't since before 2012.  Please stop replying to me with your nonsense. Kaep hasn't been given a second opportunity at all.

[evilwaldo]

1 minute ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

It's clear that @evilwaldo does not watch 49ers games or at least hasn't since before 2012.  Please stop replying to me with your nonsense. Kaep hasn't been given a second opportunity at all.

No.  Keep trying to create a false flag.

This is not a racial issue.  This is an issue over talent. 

[dogwelder]

2 minutes ago, Kevin Wilson said:

I think what people are saying is that Kaep's resume isn't the point, he has gotten injured since his better seasons and defenses figured him out. What he did three years ago isn't really a factor. In 2015, Gabbert had a better rating and completion percentage than Kaep, and what happened last season is more relevant to San Fran than what happened in the years prior.

Gabbert had a marginally better passer rating and completion percentage than Kaep.  And, really, there were a whole ton of problems with that team once they got rid of Harbaugh and everyone on the defense started retiring.

We've seen what Gabbert can do, and it's not pretty.

(And before people point out that it's just like what happened with the Skins last year, I will say that unlike Gabbert, the Skins really didn't know what Cousins could do in an extended run as the starter.)

[Kevin Wilson]

I think the argument can be made that it isn't fair to judge Gabbert for his two full-ish seasons on a really bad Jaguars team four years ago, where he was thrown to the wolves. I don't think he is great but he hasn't had many chances in his career either to QB a good team. Gabbert hasn't had a full season as a starter since 2012, and a different offense/coaches can do wonders. That doesn't mean I am drafting him in FFL, but he isn't someone like Cassel or Flynn that has gotten chances in a lot of different situations without much success.

[Niners Fan in CT]

14 minutes ago, Kevin Wilson said:

I In 2015, Gabbert had a better rating and completion percentage than Kaep, and what happened last season is more relevant to San Fran than what happened in the years prior.

He was atrocious and is on his third opportunity. I didn't say Kaep didn't deserve to be benched but what has Gabbert done to deserve all these opportunities besides look the part? We know he's awful and he's never shown to be anything more than that. Where is Kaep's second chance?  This has been going on since at least the 80s. How many QBs were turned into WRs before ever having an opportunity to show what they can do at the position?

[Wyld Samurai]

As someone who lived in the bay area:

Kaepernick started to regress in 2013. We all saw it and figured working with the QB guru that is Harbaugh would fix things in the offseason. What we got instead in 2014 was a complete regression that saw everyone blamed for Kaepernick not improvung. Mark Roman was blamed for the play calling, Harbaugh was blamed for losing the team, and Kaepernick was partially blamed for not being a leader. 

Out goes Harbaugh and Co after 2014 and in comes Plumber Jim. The 49ers window was sealed shut with the retirements of Willis, Cowboy, and the rookie. 

This does not excuse the 49ers for completely falling apart as they have because it all falls on "Super Dave" Baalke and The Boy Wonder who let their egos get in the way of success. That 49er squad was built by McClonough  (sp?) And fine tuned by Harbaugh. Baalke open to use those draft hauls he had for projects and injured players that all cropped out. 

[Kevin Wilson]

1 minute ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

He was atrocious and is on his third opportunity. I didn't say Kaep didn't deserve to be benched but what has Gabbert done to deserve all these opportunities besides look the part? We know he's awful and he's never shown to be anything more than that.

I know you're a big Kaep fan so you're passionate about it, but Gabbert hasn't had a ton of opportunities in his career, this is only this second team and he had a 86 rating last year in his first chance to start with San Fran which is average. I don't actually know he is awful, I think he is just bland and mediocre. As far as what he has done to deserve it, I don't watch their practices but I am assuming that he is out-playing Kaep or it is at least close enough that they are going with the cheaper player.

[dogwelder]

FWIW, I will point out that Kaep had a better QBR than Gabbert.  So, what does this all mean?  I have no idea.

[Wyld Samurai]

There's more to getting a second chance than getting on the field. You have to earn that shot at getting on the field, and Kaepernick's apathetic behavior and lack of leadership is a big reason why he opted for season ending surgery last season instead of waiting for Gabbert to fall on his face. 

He quit on the team and they haven't forgotten that. 

[Niners Fan in CT]

1 minute ago, Kevin Wilson said:

I know you're a big Kaep fan so you're passionate about it, but Gabbert hasn't had a ton of opportunities in his career, this is only this second team and he had a 86 rating last year in his first chance to start with San Fran which is average. I don't actually know he is awful, I think he is just bland and mediocre. As far as what he has done to deserve it, I don't watch their practices but I am assuming that he is out-playing Kaep or it is at least close enough that they are going with the cheaper player.

If we remove Kaep and Gabbert from the discussion there are still QBs being turned into WRs without being given any type of opportunity to show they can play in the league. It's been going on since forever. And how many black head coaches are in the league?  It seems like there's still an issue with that as well. Some would say those are small problems and that the NFL is "just a game" but it happens everywhere from the NFL to local businesses.

[evilwaldo]

3 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

If we remove Kaep and Gabbert from the discussion there are still QBs being turned into WRs without being given any type of opportunity to show they can play in the league. It's been going on since forever. And how many black head coaches are in the league?  It seems like there's still an issue with that as well. Some would say those are small problems and that the NFL is "just a game" but it happens everywhere from the NFL to local businesses.

Please list all of the QB's being turned into WR's over the past 10 years.

Please stop creating false flags to support your points.

You are trying to make an issue about talent into an issue about race.  

[Kevin Wilson]

8 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

If we remove Kaep and Gabbert from the discussion there are still QBs being turned into WRs without being given any type of opportunity to show they can play in the league. It's been going on since forever. And how many black head coaches are in the league?  It seems like there's still an issue with that as well. Some would say those are small problems and that the NFL is "just a game" but it happens everywhere from the NFL to local businesses.

I wasn't looking to turn it into a race issue, I am just comparing two football players. I don't think who starts for San Fran this year has anything to do with how many black head coaches there are, two separate issues. Its clear you aren't really interested in discussing the actual situation so I am not sure why you posted on a message board that typically implies wanting a discussion. There are better QBs than Kaep that got benched in more surprising situations at the time, I don't see any controversy here, him not standing for the National Anthem has become a thing but he was already benched before that, they aren't connected. I'm sorry one of your favorite players got benched for Gabbert of all people but I am not sure if lashing out on a message board with unrelated arguments is the best way of coping.

Did you feel this strongly when Alex Smith (with very solid numbers) got benched for the virtually unknown Kaep? These things happen in the NFL.

[Niners Fan in CT]

3 minutes ago, Kevin Wilson said:

I wasn't looking to turn it into a race issue, I am just comparing two football players. I don't think who starts for San Fran this year has anything to do with how many black head coaches there are, two separate issues. Its clear you aren't really interested in discussing the actual situation so I am not sure why you posted on a message board that typically implies wanting a discussion. There are better QBs than Kaep that got benched in more surprising situations at the time, I don't see any controversy here, him not standing for the National Anthem has become a thing but he was already benched before that, they aren't connected. I'm sorry one of your favorite players got benched for Gabbert of all people but I am not sure if lashing out on a message board with unrelated arguments is the best way of coping.

Did you feel this strongly when Alex Smith (with very solid numbers) got benched for the virtually unknown Kaep? These things happen in the NFL.

It is related.  I supported Alex Smith for years he was given like six seasons to show what he can do and I was extremely patient because the team was a mess and he had many different coordinators but he reached his peak. He played well but we saw his ceiling. He was terrible against the Giants in the championship game and he was terrible against the Giants the following season. So they tried Kaep and he took them to the Super Bowl.  Alex Smith wasn't pushed out of the league either. He did get yet another opportunity in KC.  Point is, he was given several years to try to figure it out. Something that Kaep is not getting,  and it's a different situation because Kaep at the time was an unkown quantity. Gabbert is known. We know Gabbert, we know what he can and cannot do.

My comments in here were never simply Gabbert vs. Kaepernick. I was also speaking on how black QBs have a much shorter leash than white QBs and this was another example of that. 

[EdA]

15 minutes ago, evilwaldo said:

Please list all of the QB's being turned into WR's over the past 10 years.

Please stop creating false flags to support your points.

You are trying to make an issue about talent into an issue about race.  

Well, Terrelle Pryor for one.  But as a Raider fan, I can tell you, he was not suited to be an NFL QB since throwing is involved.  

Denard Robinson was moved from QB to Slash guy when he was drafted - also not a good QB.  

Kordell Stewart is the poster boy but he was reverted back to a bad QB and got plenty of chances - this was more than 10 years ago, of course.

And to kill the race card there is Matt Jones (who was also a terrible QB - and even worse WR [This is the Arkansas QB/Jags flameout not the Slurs RB]) and Julian Edelman.   There was also tons of talk about people wanting to make Tim Tebow a TE. 

Sometimes teams see stuff in athletic college QB's who are not very good passers.  I'm not sure what this has to do with Kaepernick since I personally heard nothing about moving him to WR.  But whatever.

[Kevin Wilson]

Have we talked about Stork yet? A player going from 'to be waived' to 'to be traded' to 'going to retire' to 'traded' to 'failed physical' is quite a week for someone.

[Niners Fan in CT]

Earlier said he didn't respect Kaepernick's motivation but now is saying his misspoke.

 

[evilwaldo]

Niners is grasping for straws in his comments.  In each of your cases the QB's were not good passers and teams going into the draft wanted them for their athletic ability and potential to play other positions.  

He wants Kaep to keep starting but when a new coach is brought in with a seven-figure salary he does what he thinks is best for the team.  If you are not a fit you move on.  

Ironically, Chip Kelly ran a read option in Oregon and to a lesser extent in Philly.  If there was a perfect offense for Kaep is would be Kelly's.  Since he is not starting that should tell you something.  Chip needs more than a running QB.  You have to run the offense at breakneck speed which means quick decisions and a willingness to throw the ball away.  If a play is not working out dump the ball and get ready for the next play fifteen seconds later.

Kelly's offense is predicated on running plays every fifteen seconds.  A QB has to read a defense, make quick decisions, and be ready to immediately run the next play.

Mariota is a read option QB.  Kaep not winning the job here should scream volumes about Kaep.

[dogwelder]

3 minutes ago, Kevin Wilson said:

Have we talked about Stork yet? A player going from 'to be waived' to 'to be traded' to 'going to retire' to 'traded' to 'failed physical' is quite a week for someone.

Well, it's pretty obvious why the Pats were going to get rid of him and why he failed the physical.  And it's easy to see why the Skins would have made the trade if Stork was healthy.  I guess there isn't anything in the CBA about teams trading knowingly injured players, but morally...yeah.

[Kevin Wilson]

26 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

It is related.  I supported Alex Smith for years he was given like six seasons to show what he can do and I was extremely patient because the team was a mess and he had many different coordinators but he reached his peak. He played well but we saw his ceiling. He was terrible against the Giants in the championship game and he was terrible against the Giants the following season. So they tried Kaep and he took them to the Super Bowl.  Alex Smith wasn't pushed out of the league either. He did get yet another opportunity in KC.  Point is, he was given several years to try to figure it out. Something that Kaep is not getting,  and it's a different situation because Kaep at the time was an unkown quantity. Gabbert is known. We know Gabbert, we know what he can and cannot do.

My comments in here were never simply Gabbert vs. Kaepernick. I was also speaking on how black QBs have a much shorter leash than white QBs and this was another example of that. 

Agree to disagree, I have more important things to worry about than if one in-denial Kaep fan on one message board thinks this particular situation is a race issue and not the more obvious "Kaep sucks" issue. Too busy praying that Tyrod doesn't hurt himself running around to worry about San Fran, even though I am glad he got the starting job last year over Cassel, who is.... well never mind.

[Niners Fan in CT]

The same Cassel who has been given plenty of chances in this league. Yes, that guy. You just proved the point.

[dogwelder]

Can we at least all agree that there are way too many retread QBs in the NFL?  When Matt Schaub can still get a backup job versus signing an undrafted rookie...

[Niners Fan in CT]

Eh, I'm done with the discussion. I don't think Kaepernick was benched because he's black. He was benched for poor play. But I do believe (and always have) that black QBs have a MUCH shorter leash than white QBs and this situation is an example of that.  Kaepernick has accomplished much more in his career than Gabbert.  He had one stretch of poor play and now he's not receiving a fair opportunity to regain his position.  Gabbert arguably shouldn't be in the league.  And yes, the list of black QBs in college who were forced into other positions is not new news so I'm surprised some here and even disputing that fact.  Deadspin did an entire write up on it two years ago.  Go read about it.

That's all.  @Kevin Wilson @dogwelder  I have no issue with either of you.  Moving on..

[Lawful Metal]

Hey, Brock Osweiler hasn't totally shit the bed yet!  And Will Fuller V is fast!  And Braxton Miller is a competent QB turned WR!  And JJ Watt is coming back for Week 1!

And I just figured this out recently.  (Brock Osweiler - Osweiler) + (Will Fuller (V=5) - Will - uller) = Brock F-5.  Superb Owl here we come!