Jump to content
DVDVR Message Board
Elsalvajeloco

2016 Non-Event General MMA Talk Thread

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, hammerva said:

I agree that they need to build their roster but it is amazing that not only are they building their roster with past their prime guys it is past their prime guys who can't fight in the major MMA states in this country. That is why Bellator only fights in Indian casino or states like Texas that don't give a fuck about fighters.  

I mean seriously is the MMA farm system/minor leagues/developmentals that awful right now or is just laziness from Coker. 

 

I think it's all part of a much bigger issue between available options and the business interests of Viacom.

Bellator has a variety of problems and concerns (matchmaking being my biggest concern personally), but I don't think the lack of talent outside of the UFC is one of them. For as many roster filler guys and gals you get in the UFC, you get a very good number of young talent and/or worthwhile prospects. They don't come out of thin air. I think it's the relationship you have with those promotions. Although Bellator is using ex/current Legacy fighters on the prelim card for their show tonight, UFC can still basically poach anyone worthwhile from Legacy FC they want. Same with RFA, CES MMA, and several other promotions. I mean Legacy FC's promoter just got signed or is on the verge of becoming a UFC matchmaker. That tells you everything you need to know right there.

On the other hand, Bellator has relationships with local promotions but even smaller ones like Shamrock FC. Even though they have used a few people from those promotions on TV, most of them are used to filled the prelim card and to sell tickets for whenever they go to that town. So for St. Louis shows, you get a lot of Missouri people. In Houston or close by like tonight's show, you get some local Texas fodder like Rey Trujillo. Same goes for Kansas, Mohegan, and the California cards. I think it's much harder to apply the Strikeforce formula in today's MMA world because people have gotten so accustomed to depth. Because Strikeforce only did so many cards, it could get away with that because you had enough healthy fighters to hide that depth issue. When Coker came in and wanted to go back to that, I think he thought that it was sure bet that since a lot of the cards from the tournament era didn't fall apart that it would be a cinch that he could pull that off. The problem with that is you need a roster that's extremely top heavy so you can get away with using the young fighters underneath. There aren't enough stars to make that roster top heavy because the standards of what a MMA star is has changed greatly. You can't promise the old days without a Ronda Rousey, a Fedor Emelianenko, a Dan Henderson, or a Nick Diaz. Save for Rousey, all those people became stars over several years. Since MMA fandom demands people be stars, conduct themselves as stars, and actually know how to fight on top of that, you need to figure out a way to create them and fast. Now, you have a roster that even with less shows just underscores their depth problem. That leads to another problem: the star making process or the incoherence of Bellator's methods.

I think the whole thing with Will Brooks underscored a major issue with Bellator that I don't think people readily realized. If Brooks didn't want to fight for them, I can understand that and the decision to part ways with him. I, however, do not understand the infatuation that Bellator has with making poster boys and girls just because the UFC has that. For as much BS as the UFC throws at you, for whatever they do, they still have the tag of legitimacy that makes people tune in. Maybe not in great numbers every time, but they can still be very much profitable because people still find to be legitimate enough to at least give them a casual glance. Here is where those Viacom interests come in. There is a severe disconnect between who Bellator/Viacom wants to present and who they need to put out there that the fans need to see. When Brooks beat Chandler the second time and they didn't jump off the Chandler bandwagon immediately, I knew that was a wrap for Bellator right then and there. I am not saying Chandler isn't a good fighter and/or therefore he shouldn't be allowed to do Dave & Buster's ads. He's a hell of a local draw when they go to STL so he deserves some of the treatment he receives. I am saying part of fight promotion at the highest level is rolling with the winner no matter how much you didn't or don't want to. Look at how much fans were so invested in Holm/Tate at 196 even though they didn't really do anything in the leadup to compel you to watch that fight. The UFC knew they had to move on from Rousey at least momentarily. That is what comes with fight promotion. For everything to happen in the last year to two years and Michael Chandler end up lightweight champion says a lot. Moreover, for Will Brooks and Marcin Held to be on the UFC roster less than 10 months removed from fighting for the Bellator title says even more. When they started hyping up Matt Mitrione and Oli Thompson like only moments after Mitrione had probably been concussed, I saw that Bellator hadn't really learned their lesson at all. You have to let things naturally coalesce in MMA. Between those examples and like Chandler/Thomson and Koscheck/Daley, Bellator is a like a flowchart that always leads to only one box no matter if you get a bunch of different answers. They refuse to abandon their plans even when those plans keep blowing up in their face or are not at all what the fans wanted in the first place. When the UFC can basically slip and fall into a great fight like Ferguson/Vannata on some meaningless card in context to their bigger plans and Bellator is putting on shitshows like Carvalho/Manhoef (that is suppose to be meaningful as a title fight) seemingly every few months, why would viewers invest in the Bellator product in a significant way that helps them build momentum?

The whole WWE thing of trying to find attractive ladies with gaudy records from Brazil and Eastern European is just moronic because it undercuts talent development and how you even got someone like Ronda Rousey in the first place. First off, plenty of those ladies ain't that good. In the case of Brazil especially, female MMA is really spotty and that's why you really need to research who you sign when it comes to talent. Second, if you signed every woman with a pretty face and none of them can actually fight (or fight good enough for people to care), then you just have a bunch of women who served no purpose other than clogging up a roster when every spot needs to serve some value. Ronda Rousey worked in Strikeforce because you would have to be a fool not to put her out there. Since there is a no obvious answer, Bellator's method is to get everyone who looks like they would have a ton of male Instagram followers. That doesn't work especially when you have set an unrealistic expectation. When you have Invicta now in the absence of the notable Strikeforce women's matchups, there is someone already filling that niche. If it's not happening the UFC, it's most likely happening in Invicta. That's the one-two punch combo everyone expects with some bouts falling outside of that on AXS and Fight Pass w/ like Damm-Faria III on last Friday's Titan FC show. Every now and then, promotions like XFC Brazil or KSW will do a decent or more than watchable fight. There isn't like this shortage of female MMA or female MMA with attractive women who can fight. This isn't 2007 where people were looking forward to Gina Carano teep kicking folks. The standard is so much higher now, and you have plenty of places to watch. Moreover, the female talent is becoming more diverse. So when the demand is to either watch high quality or bust, you have to provide in a big way. Bellator has done anything but that on multiple fronts.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Woodley vs. Wonderboy has been finalized for UFC 205. Alvarez-McGregor, Weidman-Romero, and Edgar-Stephens are still being worked on.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alexander Gustafsson vs. Antonio Rogerio Nogueira has been made for the Fight Night card in Sao Paulo on 11/19.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Heard about that on Saturday night, but didn't see the reason.

I wonder if Michael Johnson replaces him, and we get another ATT vs. Blackzilians fight. At least there is a built-in storyline.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Heard about that on Saturday night, but didn't see the reason.

I wonder if Michael Johnson replaces him, and we get another ATT vs. Blackzilians fight. At least there is a built-in storyline.

Wait?  How the hell is Thiago Alves going to make lightweight?  Did he lose a leg since he fought last?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, supremebve said:

Wait?  How the hell is Thiago Alves going to make lightweight?  Did he lose a leg since he fought last?  

What weight did you think the Iaquinta fight was scheduled to be at? He wanted to moved to LW last summer and then said he was officially moving to LW in March/April this year. They were suppose to fight at 202. Alves hasn't fought since last May so he has had time to lose the weight. 

If you look on his IG, he is much smaller FWIW.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

What weight did you think the Iaquinta fight was scheduled to be at? He wanted to moved to LW last summer and then said he was officially moving to LW in March/April this year. They were suppose to fight at 202. Alves hasn't fought since last May so he has had time to lose the weight. 

If you look on his IG, he is much smaller FWIW.

I didn't realize that is who Ianquinta was fighting until I clicked the link about why he pulled out of the fight.  Alves was a huge welterweight during his prime, and had no idea he was making this move.  He's had a shitload of injuries lately so maybe he thinks carrying less weight would help.  That or somehow he lost a lot of weight after the USADA testing started.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, supremebve said:

I didn't realize that is who Ianquinta was fighting until I clicked the link about why he pulled out of the fight.  Alves was a huge welterweight during his prime, and had no idea he was making this move.  He's had a shitload of injuries lately so maybe he thinks carrying less weight would help.  That or somehow he lost a lot of weight after the USADA testing started.

He more or less looks like what he did early in his UFC run (around the Derrick Noble fight). His torso and legs look a bit smaller, but his arms are still muscular. From the eye test, he's probably between 175-185 pounds as opposed to near 200 pounds in between fights years ago or on fight night.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/14/2016 at 6:00 PM, Elsalvajeloco said:
There is a rumor going around that UFC has hired Legacy FC promoter Mick Maynard as a matchmaker.

Update: According to Ed Soares, RFA and Legacy are merging into Legacy Fighting Alliance. So yeah, Maynard is heading to the UFC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Speaking of Mick Maynard and Legacy...

Thank god Mick found this man because MMA would be incomplete without him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some news notes:

Ben Saunders is back in the UFC. 

Ian McCall will hopefully fight Neil Seery on the Belfast card. Hopefully.

Robert Whittaker, Jake Matthews, and Dan Kelly are all scheduled to be on the Rockhold-Jacare 2 card.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

According to Globo, Dana has indicated Rousey will indeed return to fight Amanda Nunes later this year.

From what I've gathered, I would put my bet on UFC 207.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can see where he's coming from with that though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Marquardt has a fight coming up on Fight Pass, and Fight Pass is trying to promote it.  That's why the tweet was posted.  Woodley has to stop acting like the world is out to get him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

 Woodley has to stop acting like the world is out to get him.

It worked for Nick Diaz the last 10 years. Made him millions of dollars. Even though I vociferously agree with the principle that you're going to be on the wrong side of a highlight reel at some point (whether it was a devastating finish or just some random thing ala Glover Teixeira's one good punch landed on JBJ), Woodley clearly wants in on that schtick.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks like Alvarez vs. Khabib will be on the UFC 206 card.

The full UFC 205 card will be announced on Tuesday at the MSG theater.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

It worked for Nick Diaz the last 10 years. Made him millions of dollars. Even though I vociferously agree with the principle that you're going to be on the wrong side of a highlight reel at some point (whether it was a devastating finish or just some random thing ala Glover Teixeira's one good punch landed on JBJ), Woodley clearly wants in on that schtick.

It's also lost him millions as well.  I don't think Woodley is doing the same schtick.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...