Horror Franchise Thread

[Reggie20x6]

I hated 4.

 

I also think all teenagers are awful.

 

These things might be related.

[Brian Fowler]

I guess it depends.  I mean, I happen to love slasher films on a whole, and thus own an absurd amount of them.  But Scream 3 is in the bottom 1/3 of all slashers I have ever seen.  4 isn't good by any stretch, but I maintain what I already said, that it's a damn sight better than 3, and more or less on a level with 2.

 

Which still leaves it a good long way from the better films in the subgenre, like Friday Part 2, or The Burning, or Nightmare, or Nightmare 3, or New Nightmare, or Halloween 4, or, of course, HALLOWEEN.

 

And if you want good modern slashers that have that tongue in cheek thing, but don't suck, then Hatchet and Behind The Mask: The Rise of Leslie Vernon are both right there.

[Burgundy LaRue]

In all this talk, we haven't said anything about Ginger Snaps, which may be the best take on the troubles of being a teenage girl ever.  The first one was great, and the second one was good.  I haven't seen the third one yet.

[Newb82]

SCREAM 2 is easily the weakest of the series. The "life is theatre" idea could have been good subtext, but they didn't trust the audience to get it, so they have Sidney make possibly the most illogical move in slasher movie history to set up the ending that hits you over the head with it.

Laurie Metcalf after her reveal is not going on a highlight reel of her career.

Because I feel it is the weakest, it makes me hate when I have to defend 7it from the stupid "Olyphant was only in it for 10 seconds" talking point that people who really don't like it always seem to bring up.

I've only seen a bit from GINGER SNAPS 2 (I think). I am intrigued that the girl who played young Beverly in IT is in it.

[J.T.]

In all this talk, we haven't said anything about Ginger Snaps, which may be the best take on the troubles of being a teenage girl ever.  The first one was great, and the second one was good.  I haven't seen the third one yet.

 

I enjoyed the first two Ginger Snaps movies, although it bothered me somewhat philosophically. Of all of the monsters you could pick, why a coming of age movie featuring a female werewolf?  Irony?  Poor metaphor?

 

I will stop now before I start ranting.

[Tromatagon]

Probably a huge bush enthusiast

[Burgundy LaRue]

There were only two routes to go with the monster used:  vampire or wereworlf.  And the vampire angle was too easy.  Equating puberty to lycanthropy is a decent metaphor.  A bit obvious maybe, but handled well in this case.

[Tromatagon]

I'd equate it more to a mokele mbembe personally

[Newb82]

With the renewed horror franchise talk in the movie comments thread, I started thinkg about the HALLOWEEN, NIGHTMARE, & FRIDAY franchises, and where I'd rank each franchise's movies against the others comparables (i.e. originals vs originals, part 2s vs part 2s, etc.). Since the original NIGHTMARE series only has 7 movies (not counting FvJ), I'm only doing the first 7.

The scoring system will be 2-1-0.

ORIGINALS:

1. Halloween

2. NOES

3. Friday

I struggled with the top 2, but gave the nod to HALLOWEEN because, IMO, the ending stretch of Laurie VS Michael is much more intense than Freddy going through Nancy's fun house. Plus the NIGHTMARE ending completely fucks up the "rules" of the series.

PART 2:

1. Halloween II

2. Freddy's Revenge

3. Friday the 13th Part 2

Gave the edge to HALLOWEEN again, because I like that it picks off where the original ends, and we get to see the people in Haddonfield reacting to the whole thing as it happens. I don't hate FREDDY'S REVENGE as much as some others, and the gay "subtext" with the makers' professed obliviousness to it is hilarious. Ft13th II is a slicker-looking version of the original. To try to rationalize the opening, I've convinced myself it's an urban legend that's told around the Crystal Lake area because Alice smartly vanished off the face of the earth. In my mind, she's out there somewhere under a different name.

PART 3:

1. Dream Warriors

2. Ft13th 3-D

3. Season of the Witch

This one was pretty easy. NOES 3 is clearly better than 3-D, which is clearly better than SotW.

PART 4:

1. The Final Chapter

2. The Dream Master

3. Return of Michael Myers

The toughest grouping, because I like all 3. Ft13th gets the nod because Crispin Glover amuses me to no end, and the idea of little Corey Feldman killing Jason is tremendous. I had to knock TDM down a notch because this is where Freddy becomes too jokey, and Rick's death may be the lamest out of the series. RETURN is a decent horror sequel, but the shotgun death still annoys me.

PART 5:

1. A NEW BEGINNING

2. DREAM CHILD

3. REVENGE OF MICHAEL MYERS

ANB wins a battle of shit movies through attrition, because as I've posted a few times, it's essentially a Scooby-Doo episode with tits and a body count. DREAM CHILD takes the second spot because of some nice visuals.

PART 6:

1. JASON LIVES

2. FREDDY'S DEAD

3. CURSE OF MICHAEL MYERS

I will always maintain that JASON LIVES is a legit good movie. FREDDY'S DEAD has enough ideas that interest me (even if they're waisted) to put it above CURSE, which I still like more than others. If the "Producer's Cut" of CURSE was the final version, it probably would have leapfrogged over FD.

PART 7:

1. NEW NIGHTMARE

2. H20

3. NEW BLOOD

Ft13th gets screwed here because the one producer was a bitch, and because the other two movies were meant to be more than just another sequel. I really like H20 despite some goofiness, but NEW NIGHTMARE is brilliant.

FINAL TALLY:

1. NIGHTMARE ON ELM STREET-9

2. FRIDAY THE 13TH-7

3. HALLOWEEN-5

So, judging by this matrix, I actually like the NOES series more, despite what I said in the other thread.

I wonder how much this would change if I just did a LISTMANIA of all the movies jumbled together. It might be different.

[Brian Fowler]

Return of Michael Myers is way, way better than Nightmare or F13 4.

 

The only one I could see putting the F13 above the Nightmare entry is 2.  Because F13 2 is easily the best directed of the original Friday movies, despite not having any better production, acting, or scripting.

[Newb82]

I know it's not fair, but for some reason, Halloween V takes a little of the shine off IV for me, plus there's just something about Ft13th IV that charms me.

JASON LIVES is infinitely better than FREDDY'S DEAD, as a horror movie or a comedy.

[piranesi]

I've posted this before on the old board, but it's worth revisiting.  A really nice review of FIV: THE FINAL CHAPTER, where the guy makes a case for it being both the best made film in the franchise and also the cruelest and most nihilistic in terms of the gruesomeness and coldness of the slaughter.

 

http://www.horrordvds.com/viewarticle.php?articleid=745

 

 

Now, I love Joseph Zito. He is the man. But my one criticism for the film is just how ruthless he lets it become. The other films always had a sort of fun in counting down the campers. The first makes for a playful guessing game during the Ten Little Indians countdown. Part 2 always has a sense of humour, whether it’s the Muffin to a grill of hot dogs jump cut to the whole dress as Mrs. Voorhees finale. Part 3 is probably most jokey of all, what with all those self-referential 3D gags and those hijinx with the bikers. The Final Chapter, though, is just nasty. Jason rips each camper to shit, courtesy of Mr. Savini’s immaculate gore effects. These aren’t just mindless teenagers getting it, either. It’s Crispin Glover the second after he gets laid. It’s camper Rob well before he gets any chance at vindication for his sister’s death. Hell, the virginal pseudo-Final Girl gets killed (in a cleansing shower, no less) before she even has sex! At least in the previous films the campers did something deviant to at least partially validate their deaths, whether it was pot smoking with Kevin Bacon, or all those silly pranks from Larry Zerner. Here, it’s as if Zito has a field day punishing teenagers without merit, just tearing them any any notion of teen innocence to shreds.

 

I really like that last line...

[piranesi]

My awesome wife just came back from the store with this:

 

 

In the background Arsenal are losing getting fucked by a bald cunt referee.

 

[Newb82]

Nice!

[Burgundy LaRue]

My awesome wife just came back from the store with this:

 

 

 

My mother has been eating candy corn for the past two weeks.  That's not right.  How is it even on the shelves before Labor Day?  It's not supposed to be available while peaches and fresh corn can still be bought.

[Brian Fowler]

I will say, in defense of Part IV, that Crispin Glover gives what is easily the most interesting and compelling performance from any of the "exist only to be killed" teens in the entire F13 franchise, and quite possibly in the entirety of the slasher subgenre.

[Niners Fan in CT]

I like Jason Goes to Hell. The opening scene is pretty damn cool when *Spoiler Alert* a SWAT team lures him into an opening and unleashes hell... eventually blowing him to pieces. What follows after is the spirit of Jason traveling from host to host until he is eventually reborn. I like the idea that "you can blow Jason to bits but you can never truly get rid of him".

 

Call me crazy. I understand people want hockey mask Jason all up in there slicin' fools and doing his thing but this wasn't a terrible idea to me..  The kills were pretty gruesome also.

[Newb82]

You are dead to me. DEAD!

[piranesi]

Yeah.  It's pretty bad.  I saw it in the theater and was super pissed at how bad it was.  It didn't help that in my movie-going that year, it was right in there with some pretty amazing stuff. Offhand from that summer, fall I remember seeing THE FUGITIVE, JURRASIC PARK, and SCHINDLER'S LIST. 

 

Now, why I was expecting a F13th movie to hang with those maybe says more about my lack of perspective back then...but, man, 1993 was a pretty amazing year for movies.  I think it was the last year I went to the movies to see something multiple times (both JP and SCHINDLER'S LIST).

 

Then a few years ago it was on cable and I thought, "You know, I'm a different guy now.  I revel in junk for the sake of nostalgia...I post loving rambles on movies like ZOMBIE HIGH...For God's sake, let's give it another gnope.  nope. nope. aaaaaaaaaaaaand   no."

 

The commercial looked amazing, though.  I remember that.

[Newb82]

FUN FACT: Nine-year-old me chose seeing ROBIN HOOD: MEN IN TIGHTS in a theatre over JURASSIC PARK.

[Niners Fan in CT]

Jurassic Park was fucking unbelievable. I remember maybe it was McDonalds that had the collector cups and I got all of them. I was all in on Jurassic Park.

 

Back to Jason Goes to Hell if we can.. I'm willing to admit that in a lot of ways the execution was poor but I still liked the ideas. It's much better than Jason X. I despise Jason X. Jason in a low budget sci-fi movie with a terrible space suit was all kinds of trash to me. I hate the cast too. I don't always want to cheer for Jason but here I had no choice..

[Jingus]

I'd never defend Jason X as a good movie, but it had its moments.  The entire opening scene was pretty good, the frozen-face bit was possibly the single best kill in the entire series, I loved the fembot kicking Jason's ass, the badass Not-Tony-Todd dude was awesome and hilarious, and that one scene in the holodeck was a better snarky commentary on slasher movies than the entire Scream quadrilogy combined.  It had a sense of humor and self-awareness that Jason Goes To Hell completely lacked.  Of course it did many many MANY things very very VERY wrong (the Aliens ripoff scene with the teenybopper "commandos" was just embarrassing) but I think this one and part 8 both get way too much hate just because they took Jason out of his usual sylvan setting.  

 

Meanwhile, what the fuck did Jason Goes to Hell do RIGHT?  Okay, the opening massacre was grand, we all agree on that.  But everything else was easily the very worst shit in the entire series; and when we're talking about this series, jesus, that's really saying something.  The acting was possibly overall the worst in the entire series, and so were the inexplicably weird characters.  Even the music, which is sometimes the only saving grace of these damn things, was this chintzy Casio-keyboard bullshit.  I mean, Harry Manfredini farting through a trombone would've sounded better than THIS goddamn music.  And that's not even getting into the ludicrous retconning it does to the Jason mythos, which was shabby enough already, but in part 9 it actually gets legitimately offensive with how blatantly it's telling us fans to go fuck ourselves and how much our opinions don't matter.  

[piranesi]

The thing I like about JASON X is that there is a way in which it actually is the most "true to the series" thing to do.  From a realistic perspective, whatever else the series was, it was an drive-in exploitation franchise, of movies made on the cheap to feed off of teenagers.

 

And what are the absolute most natural things for a true sleazy b-movie series to do once it starts to get long in the tooth?

 

1) Take 'em to New York City!

2) Take 'em to Space!

 

I like that no matter how much money the series made, and how much horror nerds would wax poetic about it, to the people in charge, it was always and always will be a pure exploitation series.  And JASON X is sort of the proof of that.

[Newb82]

If nothing else, JASON X has Jason rising from the dead literally because he senses two of the kids are about to bone.

[Newb82]

If you like the Friday/Jason series, I highly recommend the CRYSTAL LAKE MEMORIES book, even if it physically is ungodly huge. It covers everytthing through FVJ, including the TV series.

I know the guys that did NEVER SLEEP AGAIN and HIS NAME WAS JASON are taking another shot at a Ft13th doc, this time done by themselves like NSA. I honestly don't know how much more ground they can cover that CLM didn't though, aside from the remake.