BEN! Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 It's not just the angle. I thought his ringwork took a dive. He was taking way too much of the offense and just eating guys up and those gifs of him daintily prancing around a ladder and a table illustrated his selling pretty well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LooseCannon Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Sabin is at least a talented wrestler, and his offensive charisma is at least white-bread-boring instead of Miz's garbage-heap-in-the-sun obnoxious. So I don't see where people get off throwing Sabin under the guy who might be the worst talent on the WWE roster. Especially when Sabin just won it. As for how awful Bully was with the title, I think that can be chalked up to how God awful the Crazy Eights storyline has been and how directionless the overall show is. Bully's reign was 130 days. Cena is currently at 111, and he had a lengthly feud with Ryback, a monster-of-the-week with Mark Henry, and is gearing up for a feud with Danielson. What notable obstacles has Bully overcome? One match with Sting? Bully probably deserves less blame for how lousy he's been than TNA creative does.A TLC match against Hardy and the No DQ match against Sting were his only Title defenses before losing it to Sabin. But in all fairness to Bully, eversince TNA dropped the monthly PPVs they have not being doing many Title matches. TNA has usually been pretty stingy about handing out matches for their main title. At one point during the monthly PPV era, it seemed like they scheduled title matches for every other PPV. You can interpret that as protecting the belt or as making it easier to stretch out a Jarrett title reign because they acknowledge there is a limit to how many title matches they can end with a guitar shot or run-in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxB Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Miz is awful, but still much more credible than Sabin. No, because Sabin is a guy who dedicated his life to Wrestling, and didn't let people telling him he was too small stop him, didn't let career threatening injuries stop him, overcame the odds at every turn, et cetera. Miz is a guy who was a geek on the Real World, and made it to WWE because Vince marks out for mainstream exposure. The only advantage he has over Sabin is height. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MORELOCK Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Miz is awful, but still much more credible than Sabin. No, because Sabin is a guy who dedicated his life to Wrestling, and didn't let people telling him he was too small stop him, didn't let career threatening injuries stop him, overcame the odds at every turn, et cetera. Miz is a guy who was a geek on the Real World, and made it to WWE because Vince marks out for mainstream exposure. The only advantage he has over Sabin is height. And look and charisma and mic skills. This is like Evan Bourne coming back all of the sudden and winning the WHC - yeah, he's decent enough, but he's been gone so long all his momentum is gone, and shouldn't World Champions be in a class of their own? The reasons the titles meant more 20 years ago is they didn't pass them around to every worker who might have had a couple of good matches. Sabin's "dedicated life to wrestling" story is the rule, not the exception - the same story could be told with nearly everyone on the roster. Nothing stands out about Sabin at all. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 And look and charisma and mic skills. Miz has none of those. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MORELOCK Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 And look and charisma and mic skills.Miz has none of those. I don't think he has enough to be a World champion, but he certainly seems to have more than Sabin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overly Critical Man Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Chris Sabin has much better hair than The Miz, so the look argument is out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewar Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 They really should have left the belt on Aries after he won the X-Title wearing the Suicide suit. Aries beats Bully to become champ, fans love him again, Sabin attacks Aries for stealing the X-title from him, and you have a program between the two ready to go. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamBroken Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Agreed, I would've preferred Aries winning it again. Aries/Styles as a 'first time ever in TNA' match could've been a stellar BFG main event too 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooker Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Chris Sabin has much better hair than The Miz, so the look argument is out. Seriously, Sabin's hair is amazing. I think Sabin also embodies the idea of American men (not the reality, just the idea - and I say this as a Canadian). It's an idea TNA would probably be wise to build upon subtly. Miz, if he has any archetypal quality at all, is your obnoxious friend that you don't invite to parties but somehow always winds up at them anyway. EDIT: I will also point out that Sabin has been a stand-out in the X-Division since he came to TNA while Miz is dogshit in the ring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MORELOCK Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Seriously, Sabin's hair is amazing. I think Sabin also embodies the idea of American men (not the reality, just the idea - and I say this as a Canadian). Could you explain what you mean by this? Because to me he embodies a cardboard cutout. EDIT: I will also point out that Sabin has been a stand-out in the X-Division since he came to TNA while Miz is dogshit in the ring. Would you make anyone that has stood out in the X Division a World champion? They're relegated to that division for a reason. Billy Kidman was a standout Cruiserweight in WCW and it would have been a disaster if he'd won the World title. ETA: I also feel that because his character is so overexposed and irritating that people underrate Miz's ring work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overly Critical Man Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 No one underrates how terrible Miz's figure-four looks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooker Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 AJ Styles, Christopher Daniels, Austin Aries, and arguably Samoa Joe all came through the X Division. As for Sabin, archetypes are, by nature, hard to pin down. I just feel that the idea that America tries to present of young American men is captured pretty well in Sabin. Handsome, fit, humble, proud-without-being-ostentatious, hard working, and other things I could think of if I spent more time on it. Maybe others will disagree, but I think, more than anyone else on the roster, Sabin fits the archetype. Note that this is not how Americans actually are, or how the rest of the world sees Americans, or anything like that. Just how American men like to view themselves. There are similar archetypes for every nationality. Canadian men, of which I am, have a very similar one (typically, more outdoorish, more rugged, and less individualistic - but otherwise in large part the same). Also please note that I am not holding Sabin up as a star or anything of the sort. His charisma is non-existent, he looks tiny when he's hanging around the ring with Hogan, Bully, Sting, etc., he didn't have any momentum behind him before his win. I'm just saying that he's not that bad and certainly well above the low, low bar that is the fucking Miz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mco543 Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Jesus Christ. If Sabin embodies the idea of an American man we're completely and utterly fucked. He's shitty at his job, hasn't progressed or improved since he was wrestling on Impact at 20 (if anything he completely regressed when he was dragging Shelley down to the abyss), and he looks like a Muppet version of Mark Knopfler. Maybe his character is the archetype? I don't really know but i personally don't see it. But I'm biased I think Sabin as a pro wrestler is utter garbage, I think as lowly of him as some people do the Miz on this board, if not lower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MORELOCK Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 There's just nothing there. He's just "generic X-Division dude" like so many indie wrestlers over the past decade. Out of the 10+ years of TNA's X-Division, you named *four* workers that broke out into the main event. Out of how many that have wrestled in the X-Division? Hundreds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooker Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 You're arguing with someone that's not me. I'm not saying Sabin is a star or anything close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overly Critical Man Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 You act like main event breakout stars grow on trees or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MORELOCK Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 They don't - and neither do credible World champions. I demand Sabin vs. Miz for 1st Round of March Madness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LooseCannon Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 If you view Sabin as playing the role of Ron Garvin-esque placeholder champion where Bully is going to get it back in a rematch before Bound for Glory, is there someone better suited to that role? Is there someone who would be hurt by being put into that role? It seems like a reasonable reward for a long-time company guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MORELOCK Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Styles, Aries, Storm, Angle, Park, Samoa Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LooseCannon Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Styles, Aries, Storm, Angle, Park, Samoa Joe I think you need an X Division wrestler who is not in the BFG Series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MORELOCK Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 I think you need an X Division wrestler who is not in the BFG Series.Only if you want to book a meaningless one-week title reign via the Destination X stips, which really isn't necessary to do. There isn't going to be an X Division wrestler each year that deserves to be elevated to that level.But even if you had to have an X Division guy beat Bully, the Aries/Suicide angle was right there, and shockingly well done. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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