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Robert

General Lucha Libre Comments

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16 minutes ago, Robert said:

It's hard for me to accept that Tatsu was trying to tell any kind of story when I was flat out told he hated Mexico, doesn't wanna come back & his performance may or may not have been purposely to make sure nobody from CMLL asked him to return. I understand art is subjective and all that but I didn't see Tatsu honing any gimmick. I saw a guy being as unprofessional as a possible in order to express his displeasure with his overseas assignment from the home company.

The crowd left unhappy. A bit happy because Volador won but generally unhappy because they knew that was a bad match. Whether you wanted to see a typical Volador match or not, they wanted to see it. This is a fact I feel like you often miss when discussing Volador but that's for another discussion. He would have happily obliged if not for an unwilling opponent who showed up purposely looking to sabatoge a match. I understand wrestling is art, art is subjective, blah blah... but this is a factual data point: There was no logic in the match. There was Tatsu trying to annoy everyone involved and deliver the worst performance possible. If you enjoyed it, all the more power to you. But I assure you whatever story you think you saw was all in your own head.

"This is a factual data point." 

The factual data point would be the actual list of moves/reactions/crowd interactions done and the order they were done in, which if you put together, gives you logic. If you want to believe logic doesn't exist for contextual reasons instead of factual reasons, that's fine, just like I painted a different contexual story, but you can list the moves together on paper and come up with a narrative. In fact, I think it's easier to do that than to dismiss the narrative. 

If we're just talking about factual data points, there's logic. Again, I didn't think it was a good match, but I laid out how it wasn't nearly as bad as it was getting portrayed as, or at least, how it was maybe only bad along certain lines and not others. It's just that those lines are the ones that most people look to first, which is generally something I disagree with.

Also, I get that Volador's giving the crowd what they often want, just like I get that Niebla's giving the crowd what they want with the spit move or that Ultimo Guerrero is giving the crowd what they want with his ritualistic third fall. I appreciate that. It doesn't mean I think his matches are good. I understand why you and  others think that they are good. I read your stuff. It's a small community. I just look for different things in wrestling. It also doesn't mean that I think they're good comparatively, even with other people who are also giving the crowd what they want. Like you said, it's subjective. I have pretty consistent views if you look at my stuff over time, and there are plenty of CMLL matches I absolutely love, even some that you love too, even if it's often for only barely overlapping reasons.

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MasLucha put up the full LA Park/Rush match from last night. You'll probably enjoy it if you liked their wild Arena Mexico match last year. Just be forewarned it's an LA Park singles match so viewer beware! I thought it was pretty great. These guys have awesome chemistry & the crowd really wants to see them murder each other. Hopefully I didn't miss the contextual logic.

 

 

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Dude, this smokes their epic brawl from last summer and that was one of the most enjoyable matches all year. All of the stars. Neither man has anything left at the end. The fat man plancha hit Rush high and hard. The beer bottle usage was nasty. The chair shots from both guys were flat out horrific. The spear cut off by Park was Goldberg-esque. The ref involvement fucking killed me (THE FACE RUSH MAKES AFTER HITTING THE SENTON!). Second best match of the year and I think some people will have it at the top of their lists come December.

Edit: does anybody know if Cubsfan is going to do a 2017 MOTY list on his blog? Not that it's too difficult to go through his reviews for recommendations, but it's handy having it all organized on one page.

Edited by Oyaji

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That spear was RI-FUCKING-DICULOUS! I popped so loud. Perfectly timed. Also loved Rush doing the Parka strut at one point. LOL

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Whatever happened to ZSJ coming to Lucha Memes? Did that fall through? 

Park vs. Rush was really fucking great, BTW. Everyone should check it out.

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Maybe it has something to do with his signing for NJPW? Was that announced before or after he came to an agreement with New Japan?

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Google tells me it was announced in January. They could be saving him for some anniversary show, but it could also be something both parties forgot about already. 

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I think the idea is to get CMLL to use him as well so it's cheaper since they'll cover half the costs if not more. The problem is CMLL is very slow to react on these things & the people who make decisions probably don't even know who Zach Sabre Jr. is. It would be up to New Japan to send him and CMLL will just take whoever New Japan sends. It's a weird deal.

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MasLucha put this one up today - Skyman vs Saturno from the recent CaraLucha show. I thought it was pretty great, combining hatred with some really reckless flying spots.

 

 

Edited by Robert

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Next Chairo show on 3/26:

black terry / negro navarro vs hechicero / virus for Arena Coliseo tag belts

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On 3/14/2017 at 8:43 PM, Robert said:

MasLucha put this one up today - Skyman vs Saturno from the recent CaraLucha show. I thought it was pretty great, combining hatred with some really reckless flying spots.

I've never seen either of those guys before; that was really something. Some completely ridiculous dives in there, and yeah, a little random uncooperative-looking brawling, really fun stuff and highly recommended.

The LA Park/Rush match is, of course, glorious as well.

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On 3/24/2017 at 5:22 PM, odessasteps said:

New pod talking with Lucha Memes/Chairo promoter Daniel Ledesma about working with CMLL and this weekend's shows including Chairo 9.

http://tinyurl.com/winter58

I'm biased but I thought this was a really good interview. Indy Lucha (Especially one working with a big company like CMLL) is really interesting and Ledesma came off as very likable.

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So I watched CMLL's Lucha Azteca program (just discovered I get TV Azteca, gotta love the southwest). The langue barrier didn't make it too difficult to keep up. As a first time viewer I enjoyed it. Rush vs Bobby Lashly, Xtreme Tiger vs "Mascara Dorada" and La Mascara, Ultimo Guerrero and Volador Jr vs Atlantis, "Mistico" and Caristico were the matches. The trios Main Event was alot of fun and given alot of time. I enjoyed the presentation and I didn't find Lucha was hard to understand on a first time viewing. After a brief search I read that CMLL is the more conservative Lucha promotion so maybe that's why I felt I could pick up the basic Lucha structure right from the beginning. CMLL is the more accessible Lucha promotion perhaps? I don't know. 

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That show is actually ELITE's Lucha Azteca show. It doesn't make a whole lot of difference right now - it looks like they're repeating their one season again, so the CMLL guys will be on their for months before Things Happen - but they do a good job of making it easier to adjust for non-lucha fans. You'll get two singles matches each week, usually among big stars guys, and the first few weeks has some really great stuff.

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CMLL is usually available 3 times a week online, 2 times on their youtube channel and once on Claro Sports. Plus, whichever shows are on various cable channels now. And of course whatever is uploaded from folks like cubsfan or rob or fredo, among others. 

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Caught a few minutes of the Monday night CMLL youtube streamed-show. 

That show has two really cute ring girls. The poor things look so bored with doing that same little dance over and over and over. 

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4 hours ago, Kronos said:

Caught a few minutes of the Monday night CMLL youtube streamed-show. 

That show has two really cute ring girls. The poor things look so bored with doing that same little dance over and over and over. 

Whats funny is the regular CMLL edecanes have dacnces they use for specific workers/music styles. The Puebla edecanes pretty do the same thing every match. They still havent figured out how to clap along with We Will Rock You when Ultimo Guerrero comes out. 

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4 hours ago, Kronos said:

Caught a few minutes of the Monday night CMLL youtube streamed-show. 

That show has two really cute ring girls. The poor things look so bored with doing that same little dance over and over and over. 

That's a storyline thing. Their fathers sold the souls of their firstborns to Satanico in 1992 in exchange for a short taste of glory as the Arena Puebla trios champions.

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5 hours ago, Matt D said:

That's a storyline thing. Their fathers sold the souls of their firstborns to Satanico in 1992 in exchange for a short taste of glory as the Arena Puebla trios champions.

Don't be ribbin' me, Matthew. :o

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6 hours ago, odessasteps said:

Whats funny is the regular CMLL edecanes have dacnces they use for specific workers/music styles. The Puebla edecanes pretty do the same thing every match. They still havent figured out how to clap along with We Will Rock You when Ultimo Guerrero comes out. 

LUCHA LIBRE MARTES DE NUEVOS VALORES EN LA ARENA MEXICO 28 DE MARZO DEL 2017 is streaming right now. It has different -- and more -- dancing girls. 

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7 minutes ago, Kronos said:

LUCHA LIBRE MARTES DE NUEVOS VALORES EN LA ARENA MEXICO 28 DE MARZO DEL 2017 is streaming right now. It has different -- and more -- dancing girls. 

More importantly(?), you get to see Virus do matwork.

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22 minutes ago, Matt D said:

More importantly(?), you get to see Virus do matwork.

I'm not actually watching the program. I'm watching some eighties WWF. But I saw they were streaming, and I was curious about the ring girls. (I have my priorities.)

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What an odd match between titan and bobby. Selling/not selling? Worked injury/shoot injury?

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6 hours ago, Matt D said:

That's a storyline thing. Their fathers sold the souls of their firstborns to Satanico in 1992 in exchange for a short taste of glory as the Arena Puebla trios champions.

If anyone from Lucha Underground is reading this thread...Hello, I think you're going to use that story in Season 4.

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