The Natural Posted February 11 Author Share Posted February 11 You need to see Bryan Danielson vs. Zack Sabre Jr from NJPW The New Beginning in Osaka 2024 ASAP. It's my Match of the Year. *****. I will say I preferred the AEW WrestleDream 2023 match. I gave that ***** and it was my 2023 MOTY. Spoiler Warning: Spoiler Zack Sabre Jr pinned Bryan Danielson in a match that went over 30 minutes and flew by. Body parts worked over, counters to pitfalls and submissions. Fighting spirit. There were "This is awesome" and "Fight forever" chants in English which I've never heard in Japan. I see the rubber match ending in a submission. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted February 11 Author Share Posted February 11 (edited) Bullet Club vs. United Empire Steel Cage match is going to split opinion for: Spoiler Using barbed wire, thumbtacks and forks you don't normally see in NJPW. The biggest criticism will be the length of the match. 1 hour and 4 minutes. I liked the match for the most part but it needed trimming down some. Didn't like chairshots to the head even if gimmicked or Henare allowed to continue when hurt. Edited February 11 by The Natural Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted February 11 Author Share Posted February 11 Kazuchika Okada vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi was a poignant match, the final in their legendary rivalry which got me into NJPW with the Rainmaker shock heard round the world at NJPW The New Beginning 2012 and produced some of the best matches in wrestling history. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FourPostMassacre Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 The people doing the banners for these last Okada shows are doing nothing for Okada’s hairline which is about the only thing I’ve seen to age the man so far. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted February 11 Author Share Posted February 11 Spoiler https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zOfvlJk1_58&t=684s Bullet Club/United Empire backstage. NSFW. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E44-yf3JKLw Zack Sabre Jr/Bryan Danielson backstage. NSFW. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4EqmMpcMkRk&t=1s Hiroshi Tanahashi/Kazuchika Okada backstage. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lounging Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 7 hours ago, The Natural said: Bullet Club vs. United Empire Steel Cage match is going to split opinion for: Hide contents Using barbed wire, thumbtacks and forks you don't normally see in NJPW. The biggest criticism will be the length of the match. 1 hour and 4 minutes. I liked the match for the most part but it needed trimming down some. Didn't like chairshots to the head even if gimmicked or Henare allowed to continue when hurt. I advise anybody before watching this match to drink at least 2 monster energy drinks before doing so! Holy crap it was long but I liked it! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salads Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 Often when watching big ZSJ matches I wonder where or when we're going to be able to see this kind of thing once he hangs up his boots. This match was that dialled up to 11 with Bryan also seeming like one of wrestling's irreplacables. Things of note: Zack's facials having to do a bit more work than usual, and great strikes. Thanks to the Natural for linking to the backstage comments because they put each other over great. In that interview Zack articulates a) what is special about this pairing b) what his angle is for him wanting the title and c) why he's staying with New Japan (ie principles). The latter would've also been the reason why him leaving would be sadder than the others, so grateful viewing for me. I don't think the cage match is going to be divisive. Plenty you can nitpick, but it's a classic! I saw an interview with Clark Conners recently talking about how him/Drilla didn't grow up watching Japanese wrestling and how they're still basically doing straight American stuff. This was a rare chance to do a particular type of American wrestling in Japan by people who probably understood how much freedom the territory gives them and that another chance might not be forthcoming. All the feelings you want to get - jeopardy, entrapment, escalation and discomfort. Cage was used well, the teams worked as teams and an appropriate finish. Memorable as hell, and everyone is better off for being involved. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 I really liked the cage itself. It gave lotsa space to let the guys cook. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted February 12 Author Share Posted February 12 Dave Meltzer: Spoiler Regarding the show, I haven't had a chance to see it, but people are calling Bryan Danielson vs. Zack Sabre Jr. the match of the year and far better than their WrestleDream match. The Bullet Club War Dogs vs. United Empire cage match went 64:50, making it one of the longest matches in Japanese wrestling history. Many have said it was amazing and violent and a match of the year candidate but others thought it went too long and missed its peak. The show was the very emotional farewell of Kazuchika Okada and Will Ospreay. Okada was listed as finishing up on the 24th in Sapporo last I heard but they seemed to do a farewell tonight. It was his final match in Osaka. Danielson after the match said that Sabre Jr. was the best technical wrestler in the world. Danielson also asked for a 2/3 fall rematch with Sabre outside the U.S. or Japan. That immediately made people speculate that match for All In at Wembley Stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted February 12 Author Share Posted February 12 My top five NJPW 2024 matches: 5. Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Zack Sabre Jr. NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 18. 4. Bullet Club vs. United Empire. NJPW The New Beginning in Osaka. 3. Tama Tonga vs. Shingo Takagi. NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 18. 2. Kazuchika Okada vs. Bryan Danielson. NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 18. *****. 1. Zack Sabre Jr vs. Bryan Danielson. NJPW The New Beginning in Osaka. *****. What are yours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinube Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 The cage match was something else. Part of the length could have been cut if they had found an organic way to start stripping the ring down, perhaps doing it side by side as the action was going on. You got the things you needed. Finlay goes over because he's staying. Akira overcoming his fear of the fork. Ospreay getting a big goodbye from the crowd. Don't know where the United Empire goes from here but they are clearly faces at this point. Of note: This was a New Japan card where the only Japanese wrestler in the last three matches was KENTA in the tag title match. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted February 12 Author Share Posted February 12 I like some of what Will Ospreay does. I've always liked the Hidden Blade. Elevated and his United Empire theme. I like how he Hayabusa gear to be auctioned off for Hayabusa's family. I don't like Stormbreaker and there's a number of wrestlers I'd watch before an Ospreay match. I do think he's overrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted February 12 Author Share Posted February 12 Spoiler I liked Will Ospreay wearing Mitsuharu Misawa tights. Will Ospreay is getting tattoos in quick succession also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinube Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 I like Ospreay better now than when he was junior heavy. He does come off as a try-hard but I prefer him to Kenny, actually. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted February 12 Author Share Posted February 12 (edited) 4 minutes ago, lostinube said: I like Ospreay better now than when he was junior heavy. He does come off as a try-hard but I prefer him to Kenny, actually. I also like Heavyweight Will Ospreay more than Jr Heavyweight Will Ospreay. I prefer Kenny Omega to Will Ospreay though. Edited February 12 by The Natural 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teflon Turtle Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 (edited) ...buckle up, I'm an American who has just watched a Significant American Football Game and am under the influence of whiskey/whisky (yes, I had both). I will probably ramble on but will at least try to spell correctly. First, add me to those who think ZSJ/Danielson 2 was amazing. Run, don't walk, to find a way to watch that match. If Danielson is getting ready to hang it up as a full-timer, he's doing his level-best to put on the all of the dream matches he possibly can before he reduces his schedule. I didn't post in the Wrestle Kingdom thread, but I kept trying to find a creative way to describe Okada/Danielson 2, and the phrase I kept coming up with was "museum-quality." As in: if I wanted someone to see how pro wrestling should be defined, that's the match I'd want them to watch, next to stuff like Guerrero/Mysterio from Halloween Havoc '97. But with these ZSJ/Danielson matches...I don't know that we have seen in-ring chemistry and overall match quality like this since the Okada/Omega series. It is mind-boggling how good the WrestleDream and now the New Beginning matches have been. We don't get to see perfectly paired wrestlers put on matches like this every day, and as alluded to above, when ZSJ is done, this style may largely go with him. Also: I don't think this will require spoilers, but man...that Osaka crowd knew they were in for some special stuff at this event and acted accordingly. Part of me wonders if some folks made the trip from the UK to see ZSJ/Danielson, and Ospreay's final match, hence some of the chants in English that we don't usually hear from Japanese audiences. I could feel the atmosphere through the screen, which doesn't happen for me too much any longer. More on that below. Spoiler Overall...this event was special. Outside of the (to me, anyway) baffling tag title match, everything was absolutely great. Okada and Tanahashi facing off for what is likely the last time in a NJPW ring...part of me thinks they should have saved this for Okada's true final New Japan match, but since they are building around the question of what his two final matches will be, I understand why they did this now. Beyond the matchup itself, the match contained a few things we likely won't be seeing much of in the future. I can't imagine we see Tana go up for that crossbody to the floor too many times ever again, for example. After the match, seeing Okada weep openly and wipe his tears on the Lion Mark logo broke me. After every classic match Okada has given to that promotion over the last decade, that moment should be regarded as a landmark on the puroresu timeline. I like how the end result of ZSJ/Danielson was not what the wrestlers said they would shoot for: a submission. It leaves the door open for one more, but the thing is...if they do it at Wembley on an AEW show, I don't know that we'd get the result that should happen. While Danielson is a GOAT candidate, at this point ZSJ should be set up for big things and ought to win the next match in the series, if there is one. I can see where the comments above about the cage match being divisive have merit. Personally, I feel a combination of both: it was a match that was jam-packed with moments, fit in everything they could think of, but also did go on a bit long. I also have qualms with the ring being torn apart, which I haven't seen discussed in detail yet. That caused the match to drag and also upped the danger quotient beyond what it really should be. I get that it's Ospreay's last match, I get that it needed to be a spectacle. But...you have young guys in the match that New Japan should really have high hopes for. Francesco Akira showed what he was capable of in what may the most underrated match of 2023 with his BOSJ encounter against El Desperado. The crowd was invested in every move he made in this match. He's also just 24. There's no need to have young wrestlers like him and Gabe Kidd risk all of their future potential by wrestling on bare boards that are collapsing through the metal frame of the ring. I counted at least three visible instances where a wrestler came close to falling through the boards. In a time where big names are leaving the promotion and there's a lot riding on the young guys, I feel those are risks that ought not to be taken right now. Hearing the Japanese fans do the "Ospreay, Ospreay!" chants at the start and end of the match was also emotional. You could see Will having a tough time keeping it together when the chants happened during his entrance; I don't think he expected that. He's stressed multiple times how the fans there have seen him grow up, and the send-off he got from them reflected that. I don't know that any wrestling fanbase the world over would have been better suited for that moment. It's moments like that which keep me coming back to New Japan, and I'm glad I got to see that and feel it with those fans, even half a planet away. Edited February 12 by Teflon Turtle 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Otto Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 (edited) The last two matches on this show were just unbelievable and for completely different reasons, and that's really all you can ask for. I can't decide which ZSJ-Danielson encounter I've enjoyed more, but I know for sure that I've enjoyed both immensely. Having the match in New Japan really felt right, though. Just the overall sports feel of NJPW's presentation, I suppose. Wonderful. Spoiler Zack doing the belt motion at the end of the match and calling out Naito and/or Sanada is indeed quite promising. The backstage comments by Zack and Bryan were truly heartfelt and as real as pro wrestling promos could possibly get. The main event promised craziness, and actually overdelivered on the insanity. I myself downed a tall can of Sapporo beer as the violence wafted over me, and that certainly worked well! Sure, maybe 10-15 minutes too long, but then again, this was match of attrition and survival, so I just laughed at the absurdity of it all and rolled with it. The War Dogs are lunatics in terms of their characters and they certainly didn't disappoint when presented an opportunity like this to fully prove it. Lots of storylines weaving in and out, everyone gets an entrance and a chance to shine, Ospreay goes out on his sword. The ending with Ospreay and UE was truly a legendary sendoff, perhaps one of the most emotional I've ever seen. On to FantasticaMania! Osaka is the place to be! Good luck, Akira! Edited February 12 by Evil Otto 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted February 12 Author Share Posted February 12 On 2/11/2024 at 11:03 AM, The Natural said: You need to see Bryan Danielson vs. Zack Sabre Jr from NJPW The New Beginning in Osaka 2024 ASAP. It's my Match of the Year. *****. I will say I preferred the AEW WrestleDream 2023 match. I gave that ***** and it was my 2023 MOTY. Spoiler Warning: Reveal hidden contents Zack Sabre Jr pinned Bryan Danielson in a match that went over 30 minutes and flew by. Body parts worked over, counters to pitfalls and submissions. Fighting spirit. There were "This is awesome" and "Fight forever" chants in English which I've never heard in Japan. I see the rubber match ending in a submission. Watched Bryan Danielson vs. Zack Sabre Jr from AEW WrestleDream 2023 and Zack Sabre Jr vs. Bryan Danielson from NJPW The New Beginning in Osaka 2024 back to back for the first time. I prefer the WrestleDream match. I think I'm in the minority there. The 2023 Match of the Year and the 2024 Match of the Year. Both *****. Spoiler thoughts follow: Spoiler Both matches are similar. The working over a body part, the pinfall and submissions attempts, counters. The fluidity. What I liked about the WrestleDream match is Zack Sabre Jr goading Bryan Danielson into throwing European Uppercuts with the broken right arm as he was using the left. This led ZSJ to work on the injured arm. You also had the match in Danielson's hometown and Nigel McGuinness' heel commentary. I preferred the finish with Danielson countering the armbar into the Regal Plex which led to the two running knees giving Danielson the win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinube Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 Unfortunately, on Night One, Akira was not in a good position even though he was in the main event. He was with two rudos and against a rising (in many sense of the word) star in Dorada and two super over stars, one of whom, Mistico, had an off-night. One thing about Ospreay and Okada leaving. Even if they know it's an end of an era for Okada, he had lengthy run on top. Ospreay probably hasn't reached his ceiling yet and the fans know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterien Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 Seeing Okada sad makes me sad, I’m a bit out of the loop but I presume he would have stayed if NJPW could afford it? Will be interesting to see how AEW handle him and Ospreay but I’d prefer to see Kazu get his Mania moment dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt McGirt Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 If someone were to click on this link they might be able to find something related to this show Spoiler https://watchwrestling.wtf/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinube Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 I forgot to the mention the funniest part of night 1 of Fantastica Mania which is that since they didn't have the rights to his Kamaitachi entrance music (Maximum the Hormone's Benjo Sandal Dance), viewers on NJPW World got to listen to a pre-recorded Hiromu humming/scatting the song instead. He must have recorded the whole song because he coughs at one point when he is out of breath. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted February 13 Author Share Posted February 13 Meltzer: The Sabre-Danielson match from Osaka is a strong candidate for the best match so far this year. If you are into technical wrestling, it's among the best bouts of all-time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazorbladeKiss87 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 I just finished watching Dragon/ZSJ and the cage (Kennel from Hell?) match. Dragon and ZSJ was so good. So many cool submissions and interesting ways to get into and out of them. Disappointed we didn't get a true stretch muffler but we did get cattle mutilation. The cage match was something to see. It went long. I think they could have shaved ten minutes off and not lost anything. Tearing the ring was insane and I feared for their safety. Reckless chair shots. A ladder taller than the cage. I watched the English commentary because I don't follow NJPW and wanted to know what was going on. Mistake. They were terrible. Selling how solid and heavy the cage was when it's almost falling over as guys hit it. Anyway, I doubt I'll ever spend 65 minutes watching this again but I'm not mad I did. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawful Metal Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Haven’t watched anything else, but that main event was amazing. Literally everyone in the match got time to shine and everyone went hard. Genuine chaos in a good way. A million billion stars. a worthy successor to the pool hall death match. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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