Niners Fan in CT Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Eh, the Rockets, Sonics, Robinson-led Spurs, Jazz, Blazers, and Barkley's Suns made for a tough conference. Nah man.. The Wizkids, over-the-hill Nets and Goofy Pacers are totally better... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougN Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 On the West being weak in the 80s... It might be because I grew up a Celtics fan and we all know fans make excuses for their teams, but I was always, always, always, always told how much weaker the West was to the East. It didn't take away from Magic being great at all, but was definitely a big talking point. You can almost kind of make parallels between the East then and the West now to talk about being so strong. You have your two top tier teams with another team that eventually broke out: Celtics, 76ers, Pistons to Spurs, Thunder, Clippers. You have two teams that are damn good, but can't close it when it counts: Atlanta, Milwaukee to Houston, Dallas Then you have your headache teams. Chances are you'll beat them, but goddamn will it be tough: Chicago to Memphis. The West had some good teams, but all were pretty distant to the Lakers and most of the good teams in the East. Houston was the only team really worthy of mention, but I really put them going to the Finals more on Laker fatigue (especially in 86) than anything. Phoenix and Portland were all good teams, but no better than Indian or Chicago today. So yeah, in my opinion, the 80s West is definitely comparable to today's East. Only difference is, and this is probably unpopular, is that none of the Heat teams have matched the Lakers teams in greatness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Teams were developed much differently than today also. Besides Miami, the one true great team in the East over the last ten years ended up being the 2004-06 Pistons. Maybe add a year on the front or back end. The Celtics were constructed much like the Heat with Allen and Garnett joining Pierce to pick up their ring but that excellence lasted only a couple of years. The 2006 Heat had wonder kid Wade surrounded by 30 veterans and that lasted not very long. I hate the way the Heat were formed but it's the new model on how to build a team and actually get results. It is also why I admire teams like the Spurs and Thunder much more because their front office staffs have to be much more creative and work harder in building a contender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomAct Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 What OKC put together is borderline miraculous, honestly. If they were willing to pay Harden, they would have 3 top ten players on their team, all of them acquired via the draft. With that said, they actually MADE something of their picks, unlike someone like Cleveland or Charlotte. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_MJ_ Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Getting to four straight finals is impressive no matter what you think of the East. If it was easy then more teams would have done it. The Pistons didn't do it. The KG/Pierce/Rondo/Allen Celtics didn't do it. You can say due to injuries, age, suspensions, or etc., but all of that is part of why it isn't easy to do. I'm not good at comparing eras so I can't really contribute there. Three days between game 1 and 2, which are both in San Antonio, is ridiculous. Most of the ESPN guys and Vegas are favoring the Spurs, which makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougN Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 I don't want to be the one to take away from making four Finals. Jordan himself admits three straight Finals was mentally and physically exhausting. But I don't think four straight Finals gives or takes away from LeBron's argument for wherever he lands in greatest of all time lists, for the reasons of the East being weak and it not being used to bolster people like Russell or Kareem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 It's a little easier to accomplish the feat when 3 friends get together over the offseason and acknowledge that the only way they will win is to unite. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougN Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 I'm actually okay with that to be honest. The thing I'm not okay with is the talking point of "WELL THE CELTICS DID IT AND NO ONE SAID ANYTHING." They didn't make a conscious effort in free agency to do that. The Celtics made trades and depleted their resources to get Garnett and Allen. The team structure is the same in that you have a big three pretty much in the same roles, but the way each team got there is vastly different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Mann Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 I missed getting this in the semis thread before K locked it, but annual tradition. YOU CALL [JIM IRSAY] A SCANDAL...WE CALL THAT A MONDAY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewar Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 *nitpicky note* Jordan's Bulls teams went through the Eastern Conference to make the finals, not the Western Conference. Jordan's still the best player I have ever seen. Russell and Wilt retired before I was born, and I saw later career Kareem, so I can't accurately compare them to MJ. LeBron is the second best player I have ever seen. I don't like the Heat, don't like the way he stuck it to Cleveland with "The Decision" bullshit, but you have to give the young man his due. By the time he's done, he might have more titles and MVP awards than MJ, and that would be impressive. But fuck Chris Bosh. Seriously fuck that guy. He quit on the Raptors in his final season with them. Bigger turncoat than Vince Carter. Fuck a Bosh, and his wife whining about the refs being out to get the Heat on twitter. Spurs in 7, I hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgundy LaRue Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 I'm actually okay with that to be honest. The thing I'm not okay with is the talking point of "WELL THE CELTICS DID IT AND NO ONE SAID ANYTHING." They didn't make a conscious effort in free agency to do that. The Celtics made trades and depleted their resources to get Garnett and Allen. The team structure is the same in that you have a big three pretty much in the same roles, but the way each team got there is vastly different. But doesn't just mean that Miami was smarter about it? Not to mention that LeBron/Wade/Bosh structured their second contracts such as they would end a season before the lockout that everyone saw coming. That's just good strategy to me. I never got the impression that the Miami move was as nefarious as some suggest. It was likely more a case of three friends talking about their business, commenting about lockouts and contract structure, and realizing that if they came together, they would find success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muhammedboehm Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 I'm actually okay with that to be honest. The thing I'm not okay with is the talking point of "WELL THE CELTICS DID IT AND NO ONE SAID ANYTHING." They didn't make a conscious effort in free agency to do that. The Celtics made trades and depleted their resources to get Garnett and Allen. The team structure is the same in that you have a big three pretty much in the same roles, but the way each team got there is vastly different. But doesn't just mean that Miami was smarter about it? Not to mention that LeBron/Wade/Bosh structured their second contracts such as they would end a season before the lockout that everyone saw coming. That's just good strategy to me. I never got the impression that the Miami move was as nefarious as some suggest. It was likely more a case of three friends talking about their business, commenting about lockouts and contract structure, and realizing that if they came together, they would find success. But per NBA rules (and most of the rules of the other leagues) its a half step away from collusion and tampering Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 If they really were talking it out during the 2008 Olympics, then it's unquestionably tampering by the letter of the NBA law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_MJ_ Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Send your evidence to Dan Gilbert's attorney. He's still building his case, just in case. I don't buy management/league trades always being less shady or even more authentic than free agents coming together. There's always politics in the big trades. If Kevin McHale trading KG to Boston of all places is okay in most people's eyes, and the league can tell the Lakers they don't get Chris Paul due to "basketball reasons", then I think we can live in a world where players as free agents can have power too. I always been more in favor of giving players' more rights and power in these free agent situations over management/organization, who usually have most of the power in NBA transactions, but I understand most fans do not agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 He got Al Jefferson for him, though. Fans in 24 cities had a very small chance of ever seeing their team win the championship and that small percentage keeps decreasing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 In the meantime, one of the 5 smallest markets in the NBA is watching it's team play in the finals for the second straight year, and 6th time since 1999, who just beat another extremely small market team in the conference finals. And the loser of the other conference final was a small market team... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muhammedboehm Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Send your evidence to Dan Gilbert's attorney. He's still building his case, just in case. I don't buy management/league trades always being less shady or even more authentic than free agents coming together. There's always politics in the big trades. If Kevin McHale trading KG to Boston of all places is okay in most people's eyes, and the league can tell the Lakers they don't get Chris Paul due to "basketball reasons", then I think we can live in a world where players as free agents can have power too. I always been more in favor of giving players' more rights and power in these free agent situations over management/organization, who usually have most of the power in NBA transactions, but I understand most fans do not agree. But teams can talk to each other about trades with out braking league rules. What teams can't do is talk to contracted players about coming to there team what James, Wade, and Bosh all did by almost everyone's accounts is brake the letter of the law by spending the Olympics talking about how to get on the same team, but if there had been even one single person from a team it would have broken the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 So you think we can expect to see more San Antonios? I don't think so. Duncan is rare in that he was an all-time great that didn't need to be in the spotlight and Pop is probably the 2nd or 3rd best coach of all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 My point is that of the top teams in the NBA right now, the only one from the three major markets is the L.A. Clippers. If the NBA is set up to let the big cities win, they are doing a spectacularly bad job of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Time for a franchise in Gary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomAct Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 My point is that of the top teams in the NBA right now, the only one from the three major markets is the L.A. Clippers. If the NBA is set up to let the big cities win, they are doing a spectacularly bad job of it. To me it's always been a case where the NBA clearly tries to tip the scales in the favor of those teams, even if it doesn't always play out that way. The current CBA, to me, is meant to let the more "attractive" franchises stay that way, and make sure you never see someone like the Bucks or some shit make a run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggulator Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 The NBA is absolutely fantastic now. It's so great. That said, I do think the Bulls teams would run either Miami or San Antonio off the court. That's just because of psychopath Jordan.Basketball's explosion across the globe has helped the NBA in a lot of different ways. First, so many talented foreign players end up in the league now. And on the other hand, there's a legitimate job market or Division 1 basketball players overseas. There are a lot of options. My alma mater graduated four seniors this year after finishing .500-ish in the A-10. At least three of those four will play professionally next year. The fourth didn't get a ton of time but even he might end up signing somewhere, unless medical school gets his attention. And that's for a mid-major program.Any kid in their right mind who has the athletic ability to pick and choose a sport to play would go with basketball just because of the economics. You also don't have to worry about concussions or life-long injuries like football players. Baseball's the other pick but the marketplace for jobs isn't as big as basketball. Spurs in 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Pippen would lock up LeBron, MJ would lock up Wade and Rodman would lock up Bosh. Heat have no big man to make the Bulls pay. Bulls win the series on lights out defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Pip is probably my favorite non-Piston ever, and a defensive genius, but LeBron would bully him in the post. He's got like 40 lbs on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_MJ_ Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 The final 4 teams this year were Indiana, Oklahoma City, Miami, and San Antonio. None of which are considering big market cities. Both the Lakers and New York, who have been awful for almost a decade now (minus their 2012-2013 season) despite being the most valuable franchise in the league, didn't make the playoffs. That hasn't happen in a long time. The Chris Paul trade was blocked by the league. Dwight told the Lakers to kick rocks. Cleveland received another number 1 draft pick with the Lakers and the Knicks in the mix. This conspiracy for the big market teams has been very subtle lately. If anything, the past superteams of the Lakers and Celtics (80s era) should be receiving more of your ire if you have issues with league favoritism and stacked teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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