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DVDVRMM: R1 Match 29: VIRUS vs. RUSH


VIRUS vs. RUSH  

50 members have voted

  1. 1. FEEL THE POWER. FEEL THE INTENSITY.



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I don't think I will vote here because to me this is the definition of a coin flip match and it's between top five in the world contenders. I would have been forced to choose if this were later in the tourney, but it seems wrong to pretend either of the guys should be getting bounced in the first round of a tourney where the 89th best guy in the dismal modern japan scene made it to round two. Maybe I'll change my mind and do a real pimping post and pick my poison later if the results are insanely skewed

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I'd seen some Rush in NJPW prior to this tourny but watching more he's kind of a revalation for me. Both the Casas and Terrible fueds were incredible. Provided he wins Rush vs Goldust is going to be a now shockingly tough call. WWE should bring Rush in as Del Rio's party boy cousin who is always getting in trouble. Del Rio could use a tag run, something different.

Virus does some nifty stuff but to call him a top 5 worker in the world is just silly to me.

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Virus is the best title match worker in Lucha today, gets the most out of every young guy they pair him with, is probably the most consistent trios worker in Mexico, is great on the mat, brawling and has some of the best high spots in wrestling. He is also one of the few guys who seems to be universally loved among Lucha fans. I could live without ever seeing tanahashi wrestle again, but I understand for fans of NJPW main event style he is certainly not a "silly" top 5 pick. Same thing applies with virus and Lucha fans (not saying we would all have him top five mind you, just that it is completely reasonable).

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I get what Virus does well but top 5 I just can't fathom. I'd listen to a case for Casas and maybe even Rush but not Virus.

I will agree this is a brutal draw. Based on my viewing homework I'd have voted Virus over 8 or 9 of the guys who have already advanced.

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Two more guys I'd never seen before. I have decided I like Lucha a little better than Puro. Maybe it's the atmosphere. I think I'm going Rush, but these are two more guys I'm gonna seek out more of. Seems like a tough first-round draw. 

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I didn't watch a ton of wrestling last year but I did watch a few CMLL shows. Rush vs Casas was a consistently awesome feud but Virus had better matches. I went Virus because those title matches give a better picture of why he's great whereas many of those Rush trios just suggest potential greatness. If the Rush vs Casas singles match had a little more meat on it I think this would be a different conversation. 

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I'm still watching both guys and will vote later. I think I like Virus more. I didn't realize how many good mat workers there were in Lucha right now, but I've seen Casas and now Virus do some AWESOME work on the mat in my pre-tourney viewing. I'll watch a couple more matches before I vote, though.

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BUT LUCHA SUCKS!!!!

IT'S JUST GUYS IN MASKS ALL DOING THE SAME THING!!!

 

I can understand the frustration but pragmatically, I think the tourney so far has been a pretty big win for lucha in general. You have to live with these people for the next year, not just March when the voting happens, and perspectives have been broadened way more than I was expecting coming in, though why those hadn't already been broadened by the lucha set is beyond me. That thing is dirt cheap for the value that you get for it. 

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Yeah, I'm not seeing closed-minded blanket dismissal of lucha in the voting and comments. Not really sure where that came from.

 

Anyway, I'm inclined to go with Rush based on stylistic preference, but I still need to watch Virus/Titan. If it impresses me enough, I'll vote for Virus.

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Yeah, I'm not seeing closed-minded blanket dismissal of lucha in the voting and comments. Not really sure where that came from.

 

It wasn't directed at anyone in particular... just some general comments made on this board over the last few weeks.

 

Matt - I understand what you are saying but the frustration will always be there.

I mean we have talked about the greatest of Fuerza Guerrera for fucking 20 years, yet I do a WOTD on him and he gets 3 fucking replies. It's not like Fuerza is going to show up in a March Madness and folks will be all "Well I guess I need to watch this now" (And same exact thing happened to Damien 666 - though Fuerza is a 1000 times more amazing)

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I think you should take some heart that, in the face of the general feelings that you are bringing up and dealing with, that a number of people actually did and are checking out matches. So few people are into lucha that I think every person that is exposed to some new wrestlers is a disproportionate win. 

 

Speaking of that, since it wasn't posted yet (and wasn't in the Titan note), 

 

 

here's what I said on PWO about it a few days ago:

 

 


I'm actually not super familiar with either of these guys, because I am certainly a novice to lucha. It feels like a title match right from the get go, though, and it's a testament to Virus that if I hadn't read what Phil wrote first and knew what to look out for, I might have missed completely how thoroughly he was leading Titan through the paces. There were one or two sort of odd moments with Titan zigging where he should have zagged but for the most point it was a very solid first fall. I think when I watch title matches that start with matwork it's not necessarily elaborate stuff I'm looking for but either competitive or interesting and I think this hit both marks. The lightning quick way Virus put on the fall-ender was striking.

 

Then Virus just puts on this clinic on how a leg is not supposed to bend, to the point that I'm kind of sad when he goes away from it. I like that we get a definitive cut off hope spot (and one that calls back to the leg work a bit) before Titan comes back with the handspring, and that even that was almost cut off until Titan cements it with the leg whip. That Titan takes the second fall with a crazing handstand backflip roll up thing is just proof positive that Virus should have kept on with the legwork. Or something. 48 year old 

 

Titan is fairly explosive. I liked how the flying back elbow in the corner came out of nowhere. Virus, for his age and body type, is deceptively quick and agile. He also does a great job catching Titan's dive. After the rolling figure four variation fight, we get a nice nearfall callback with Titan going for his flipping roll up again. Then the second big dive. Titan sure is flippy. Virus' response to said flippiness is kind of great. After the big springboard sunset flip, he just grabs the legs and pulls (did they call this a Ringo Mendoza lock or did I hear that wrong?). Titan's bridging out of the subsequent pin is nice, with the power bomb as the exclamation point. We get more of that dickish response of the flying stuff, as Virus eats a springboard splash from Titan and then latches on to an arm and tries to dislocate half of Titan's body. He's too tired to finish him off, though, and Titan's soon back up and trying to fly again. A well timed high dropkick knocks Titan off the top rope and then 45 year old Virus does that insane senton to the floor. 

 

They probably show stuff like this all the time, but the image of the elated girl holding up her Virus mask after he kicks out of the two post-senton clotheslines is pure gold. I really like how Virus is able to just kick out a positional reversal to almost any spot he's in. I'm not entirely sure I've ever seen anyone do that quite as well as I Do it here (Which I'm sure says more about me than about him). Maybe a Billy Robinson. Anyway, the finish is surprisingly smooth. You almost hear that last submission hold click into place once the arm comes around. 

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Yeah Rush was one of the big reasons I watched a lot of CMLL this year, he has a weird charisma about him that I like and everything he does looks fairly crisp.  He is also very consistent.

 

Virus I just cant really get, I understand why I should like him but I always feel like I enjoy watching whoever he is in with more. 

 

I dont think that last sentence made any sense.

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Yeah, I'm not seeing closed-minded blanket dismissal of lucha in the voting and comments. Not really sure where that came from.

 

It wasn't directed at anyone in particular... just some general comments made on this board over the last few weeks.

 

Matt - I understand what you are saying but the frustration will always be there.

I mean we have talked about the greatest of Fuerza Guerrera for fucking 20 years, yet I do a WOTD on him and he gets 3 fucking replies. It's not like Fuerza is going to show up in a March Madness and folks will be all "Well I guess I need to watch this now" (And same exact thing happened to Damien 666 - though Fuerza is a 1000 times more amazing)

 

 

I have to be honest that, for me, it's that I'm aware that I have less knowledge of Lucha and some people are really good at critically evaluating wrestling styles here, and I'm not really there yet in the same thing. I usually don't post in WOTDs out of not knowing if I have anything useful to add depending on the wrestler and the style. 

 

I post more on the stuff I know because I feel like I have a basis in at least understanding it enough to have a decent conversation about it. 

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Dr Lucha a few years ago said he felt Rush would be a guy WWE would love to get their hands on. The thought at the time seemed silly, but with his current body of work it's a very strong possibility.

With the rudo shtick he's doing now and the overall success Alberto Del Rio has had, I think Rush would do very well for himself.

But Virus is on another level when it comes to working the mat and doing all the little things to come across as the baddest little man in CMLL and has earned the moniker of maestro. He had an awesome lightning match with Blue Panther were it was catch as catch can and even though it ended in a draw, I left wanting to see more.

Virus also has a nifty little tag match with Valiente in ChilangaMask vs the Traumas that's all kinds of fun.

I'm going to have to think long and hard about who is going to get my vote.

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