Coletti Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 Imagine a whole lotta people enjoying a thing for what it is, and a couple people constantly telling them what they like is bad or going to fail or whatever - you're being a fucking drag and masking it as "concern," which I suppose is better than just being an outright troll but still isn't "fruitful." However, if you keep trying to push the conversation into a place most people have no interest in going, you're bound to get pushback. Long story short, let people like things and learn to step back sometimes. 7 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 7 minutes ago, StretchMediatedHypertrophy said: - The wider attendance issue is somewhat of an issue but it's more optical than anything else I'm not just cherry picking this part of your post, I agree with much of the rest of it. Firstly, to address what I mean about their TV rights negotiations. They need to see an increase and the future of the company is dependent on it and I think they can secure that increase but me saying that doesn't come out of thin air. Tony Khan has stated himself how important that is going to be because the company is not likely to be profitable without it. But on to the comment I highlighted, I'm not sure what you mean by it. I think it's a real issue. These buildings they are running were selling out or near sell outs a couple of years ago and now they are doing sometimes a third or 40% of what the attendance was. I expected some of the demand to wear off over time but that's why they needed to step things up creatively to keep that interest going. Dynamite running large arenas in front of sometimes 2,000-3,000 fans is a bad look any way you slice it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 5 minutes ago, Coletti said: Long story short, let people like things and learn to step back sometimes. What are you talking about? I like much of AEW for what it is (I do think they can be better creatively in some areas) and have especially liked all of their PPVs, and that's why I have some concerns over it. I want it to be as successful as it can possibly be. If I didn't like it, I wouldn't care as much about it. These are legitimate concerns. I'm not sure why it's a "bad thing" to discuss them. Also, it's nonsense that I am always in here throwing cold water on everything. That's not true at all. I go months without posting at all. You must have me confused with someone else. Check my post history and you'll see that I don't post on here for weeks at a time over the past year or so. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StretchMediatedHypertrophy Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 9 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said: I'm not just cherry picking this part of your post, I agree with much of the rest of it. Firstly, to address what I mean about their TV rights negotiations. They need to see an increase and the future of the company is dependent on it and I think they can secure that increase but me saying that doesn't come out of thin air. Tony Khan has stated himself how important that is going to be because the company is not likely to be profitable without it. But on to the comment I highlighted, I'm not sure what you mean by it. I think it's a real issue. These buildings they are running were selling out or near sell outs a couple of years ago and now they are doing sometimes a third or 40% of what the attendance was. I expected some of the demand to wear off over time but that's why they needed to step things up creatively to keep that interest going. Dynamite running large arenas in front of sometimes 2,000-3,000 fans is a bad look any way you slice it. Bad look = optical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoFistsJustFlips Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 We all agree AEW has hit a rough patch. Everyone has their own ideas on what will help dig them out of the hole they're in. It's pretty obvious TK's plan is... moarrrrr beltsssss. Let me put on my counting hat for a second. AEW Titles (9) -Men's World Title -International Title -TNT Title -Continental Title -FTW Title -Women's World Title -TBS Title -World Tag Titles -World Trios Titles ROH Titles (7) -Men's World Title -Pure Title -Men's TV Title -Women's World Title -Women's TV Title -World Tag Titles -World Six Man Titles Non-AEW Titles on TV often (5) -AAA Mega Title -AAA Tag Titles -NJPW TV Title -NJ Strong Title -IWGP Tag Titles Dude. AEW / ROH have 16 belts now. 16 regularly defended and canon titles. Then there's also the ones often defended. We're up to 21. And that's not even all of the outside titles used this year. 21 sets of belts is way too fucking many. None of the belts mean anything outside of the AEW men & women's World Titles. More belts is not the answer. Because if everyone is a champion than no one is a champion. It's just crazy that there are that many belts rotating on the different shows. It drives my OCD crazy and annoys me to no end. I think this ties in to the greater discussion being had in the thread too because there has got to be fans out there that don't follow super closely and every time they tune in there's new belts and new champions. That can be off-putting to viewers. There's this uncontrolled sloppy chaos vibe that TK's booking puts out. And this ties into that. As does starting and stopping stories. It's all connected and needs worked on. You shouldn't be adding more belts. You should be merging belts and giving structure to what purpose they serve. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StretchMediatedHypertrophy Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 (edited) Tbf the ROH & NJPW Strong TItles are literally being merged into the Continental Title so they're not regularly defended at present; they are effectively already retired. Apart from those titles, I'm not sure which AEW Title people would really want to do without. I mean admittedly they weren't always creating belts, but during the Attitude era they'd rarely be a week of TV without a title change of some sort. I don't think ROH needs a Women's TV Belt admittedly lol. I stand by what I said about weight classes, and I'd be happy to see two weight divisions. It wouldn't completely surprise me if they're setting up to scrap the TBS belt (if they leave WBD), and do a Women's Continental Classic where they create another Triple Crown. Edited December 17, 2023 by StretchMediatedHypertrophy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoFistsJustFlips Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 Between ROH & AEW there's 8 men's singles titles. That's way too many. Each brand should have a world title, a mid-card title, and mayyybbbeee some sort of non-traditional gimmick title. In ROH's case World, TV, & Pure is fine. AEW should be World, International, and FTW which should take on no DQ hardcore rules to set it apart OR have the TNT Title but have it take on gimmicked TV Title rules like 10min time limits which would elad it to being a more sprint / lucha oriented title. Can anyone even decipher what the hierarchy is? What's more important International or TNT? Is Continental better than those? Worse? Even if you disagree with there being too many titles, I would hope you'd at least agree there needs to be a better defined hierarchy. In the old NWA JCP days you knew World title was most important, US was secondary because it made you #1 contender, TV was after that because it may not be as important as the other two but you're on TV every week making more money if you win. The way everything is presented outside of the AEW World Title is basically 'here's a belt, these two guys want it' without any specified stakes or purpose or implications for what title means what. They are the utter definition of props. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Cincinnati Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 3 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said: Here's the problem with this folder. Everyone WANTS AEW to succeed so much so they are willing to overlook all of the issues that have been going on within the company over the past 18 months. You have blinders on. So true. This is the first we’re all hearing about any of AEW’s potential shortcomings. We never discuss this here. Thank you, brave truth-teller. 1 3 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorman Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 2 hours ago, NoFistsJustFlips said: ROH Titles (7) -Men's World Title -Pure Title -Men's TV Title -Women's World Title -Women's TV Title -World Tag Titles -World Six Man Titles Not to be nitpicky, but ROH doesn't have a Women's TV title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoFistsJustFlips Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 17 minutes ago, Gorman said: Not to be nitpicky, but ROH doesn't have a Women's TV title. I'm writing this message from the future, Thursday to be exact, and they do now lol. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryArchieGus Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 (edited) In AEW's short history they have on occasion produced some near perfect television. Every other week, save for maybe one or four that I'm forgetting, they've had good to great segments and some shitty ones. I don't quite see this Fall/Winter 2023 set of TV as any worse. Yeah, they were hotter when Danielson and Punk debuted. I don't get this ignorant idea that AEW is immune to ups and downs. What Pro Wrestling company, or any company for that matter, hasn't had ups and downs? I'd be curious to know what weekly Wrestling TV show in the past 20 or so years has been more consistent or better than AEW Dynamite? That's not to say there aren't issues with the product. I'm solidly with the too many belts talk. There's also an ongoing issue with Referees being made to look ridiculous, and far too many non-managers at ringside. I also find the phasing in/out of the roster week to week a bit problematic (I sense the live gates have suffered more for this reason than discussed). Especially without Video packages and promos to keep up with the stories/characters, but it's something I'm seeing being worked on (that's all I ask). I also find the hiatus/injured wrestler disappearances very irritating. And unnecessary. But I recall Meltzer on WOR talking about injuries not being legally allowed to be discussed. I'm not sure I got that quite right or how that works, but it seems like the secrecy could be better limited or worked around. All this said, I don't find these qualms enough to hate on a product I find consistently fun. It's par for the course. As far as AEW being number 2, what the fuck do you expect? WWE was number 1 with an outdated senile booker presenting the shittiest wrestling possible. In general, that company, the well established McDonalds/Marvel/Coca-Cola of the industry, clearly appeals to a far wider fanbase. I'm happy AEW doesn't. I want blood and workrate and unscripted promos. If they don't always work out, but the batting average remains high, oh fucking well!? I'm not on top of all the sales figures, nor do the bellyachers seem to be, but from a distance the profits look pretty strong. And the Billionaire responsible for the overhead is happy. My overall opinion remains: AEDUB still rules the fucking world. Edited December 17, 2023 by HarryArchieGus 10 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 1 hour ago, John from Cincinnati said: So true. This is the first we’re all hearing about any of AEW’s potential shortcomings. We never discuss this here. Thank you, brave truth-teller. I don't read every thread on here for one and even if I did, enough has happened this week alone to have the discussion. You could skip past it and leave the snarky comments to yourself but we know you can't help yourself there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StretchMediatedHypertrophy Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 2 hours ago, NoFistsJustFlips said: I would hope you'd at least agree there needs to be a better defined hierarchy. Why? I really think Christian benefits a lot from the TNT Title, and Cassidy the International Title. I mean, yeah I can sort of see why some wrestling fans would find more clearly defined structures psychologically more satisfying, but if you could go back 12 months and scrap a title....I'd be curious to see you justify that in practical terms. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 The snark and pushback on any attempt to have a discussion about some of AEW's issues are only proving what I said to be true. It's the "this is fine" meme come to life. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godfrey Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 (edited) 56 minutes ago, HarryArchieGus said: I'd be curious to know what weekly Wrestling TV show in the past 20 or so years has been more consistent or better than AEW Dynamite? I know it might not be your style but I'd say golden age NXT (2014-2019) was an incredible run Edit: Also New Japan Edited December 17, 2023 by Godfrey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Cincinnati Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 “People calling me on my bullshit means I’m over the target. My persecution proves my virtue!” 1 2 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 Just now, John from Cincinnati said: “People calling me on my bullshit means I’m over the target. My persecution proves my virtue!” You are unable to address the dwindling attendance and poor ratings because that would lead you to having to admit that I'm right about them being an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Cincinnati Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 So true. In dunking on you for being tedious, I’m actually pretending they’ve got packed houses every week. You’re still so good at reading. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 1 minute ago, John from Cincinnati said: So true. In dunking on you for being tedious, I’m actually pretending they’ve got packed houses every week. You’re still so good at reading. What's tedious about it? This is the first time, maybe ever (or at least in a long time) that I've brought up the issues AEW has. Instead of your poor attempts at "dunking" you could have addressed the content of my post and what was "wrong" about it. You jumped to snark/insults because you couldn't address the attendance issues or the Collision ratings or that Punk and Cody are red hot in another company with Jade in line for a monster push or the injury issues like losing Omega that started the conversation.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefanie Sparkleface Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 I for one miss the simpler problems, like the ropes being a distracting color. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Cincinnati Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, Sparkleface said: I for one miss the simpler problems, like the ropes being a distracting color. The multicolor ropes were good and Tony was a coward for backing down. 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godfrey Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 5 minutes ago, Sparkleface said: I for one miss the simpler problems, like the ropes being a distracting color. Unrelated: I can't believe it took me this long to realize what music video your icon was from, great song Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 8 minutes ago, Sparkleface said: I for one miss the simpler problems, like the ropes being a distracting color. Never noticed. I've always liked AEW's set designs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryArchieGus Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 31 minutes ago, Godfrey said: I know it might not be your style but I'd say golden age NXT (2014-2019) was an incredible run I checked in on NXT while I was on a lengthy watching hiatus. I also saw some late 2019 during the Wednesday Night Wars. NXT truly wasn't for me. However, the NXT Takeovers I saw were very strong. Pretty well paced and a very Reasonable running time. I'm glad you mentioned this. There seems to be a consensus on that era of NXT. This also provides better understainding why some of the earlier AEW audience would find themselves more satisfied with the current WWE product. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefanie Sparkleface Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 20 minutes ago, John from Cincinnati said: The multicolor ropes were good and Tony was a coward for backing down. Reject tradition, embrace modernity colors! (Or COLOR'S, if they ever book SAKI.) 16 minutes ago, Godfrey said: Unrelated: I can't believe it took me this long to realize what music video your icon was from, great song Make sure to pre-order her book at your local independent bookstore (or ebook/audiobook, if that's more your thing, you do you). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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