Battleground VI - 5/28/2023

[The Natural]

31 minutes ago, StuntmanCrowley said:

How the hell did that only get 4.75? 

Ilja Dragunov vs. Dijak wasn't NJPW Wrestle Kingdom in the Tokyo Dome or AEW.

That was a ***** match. Loved it.

Edited June 3, 2023 by The Natural

[Norwegian Rudo]

More specifically, there was no way Dave was giving an NXT match a better rating than anything on DON. The real joke, and one he's getting a lot of shit for is the Jericho - Cole rating, especially since everybody knows Jericho is one of his main sources.

[The Natural]

7 hours ago, Norwegian Rudo said:

More specifically, there was no way Dave was giving an NXT match a better rating than anything on DON. The real joke, and one he's getting a lot of shit for is the Jericho - Cole rating, especially since everybody knows Jericho is one of his main sources.

***1/4 for Adam Cole/Chris Jericho.

[TheVileOne]

Didn't Jericho lose it and ban the internet after star ratings over RVD/Jericho at the King of the Ring? 

Why I generally find star ratings dumb. Everyone gets pissed off about them, and then everyone will always cite them given a particular wrestler. Not to mention, it's all opinion at the end of the day. 

Do I think it's kind of stupid that Kurt Angle doesn't have a single 5* career match? Yes. But those were people's opinions at the times. To me what makes a good match is if you enjoy it or not and how it makes you feel. IMHO it's not a scientific formula, or at least, it shouldn't be.

[The Natural]

2 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

Didn't Jericho lose it and ban the internet after star ratings over RVD/Jericho at the King of the Ring? 

Yes. RVD vs. Chris Jericho at King of the Ring 2002.

Edited June 4, 2023 by The Natural

[Just Adam Bay Bay]

6 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

Didn't Jericho lose it and ban the internet after star ratings over RVD/Jericho at the King of the Ring? 

Why I generally find star ratings dumb. Everyone gets pissed off about them, and then everyone will always cite them given a particular wrestler. Not to mention, it's all opinion at the end of the day. 

Do I think it's kind of stupid that Kurt Angle doesn't have a single 5* career match? Yes. But those were people's opinions at the times. To me what makes a good match is if you enjoy it or not and how it makes you feel. IMHO it's not a scientific formula, or at least, it shouldn't be.

Your Kurt Angle point proves why they’re just meaningless opinions. I don’t get why people are so hell bent on my favorite never got 5 stars in WWE or WCW from Dave. When to me I feel like saying if Kurt Angle didn’t then why should your favorite have gotten it? Kurt had some all time classics in WWE. 

[Matt D]

I mean Kurt Angle kind of sucked as a wrestler when it came to the things that actually matter but he wrestled exactly how Dave would have wanted him to get five star matches so who knows.

[Stefanie Sparkleface]

I remember when I first heard Jim Cornette's "wrestling is like ice cream" theory.

There are hundreds of flavors of ice cream, and as long as you have your flavor, be happy. Until they start trying to change vanilla to taste more like chocolate, you'll always have your vanilla so there isn't anything to be upset about.

Oddly enough, it sounds like if you bring it up to him today, he'd scream about you being an idiot for 83 minutes on his podcast and block you on Twitter.

Anyway, point is, like what you like and don't get mad at people for liking what they like as long as you still get what you like.

Now if you'll pardon me, I'll go gripe that we never got a Barbarian vs Scott Norton singles match. You'd have to hold it outdoors, because my gosh, the roof would blow off.

[Just Adam Bay Bay]

2 hours ago, Matt D said:

I mean Kurt Angle kind of sucked as a wrestler when it came to the things that actually matter but he wrestled exactly how Dave would have wanted him to get five star matches so who knows.

I’d love to see somebody suck and still have matches half as good as:

King Of The Ring 2001 vs Shane McMahon (while working their third match of the card)

Royal Rumble 03 vs Benoit

Wrestlemania 21 vs Shawn Michaels

No Way Out 06 vs Undertaker

[odessasteps]

10 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

 

Do I think it's kind of stupid that Kurt Angle doesn't have a single 5* career match? Yes.

If you only go by one critic’s opinion. The fact that one person’s opinion (no matter who it is) is treated as fact is one of the many problems with wrestling fandom. 
there are probably people who only used Ebert (or Siskel and Ebert) for their movie recommendations, but that’s just as bad. And you can substitute Pauline Kael or Laura Mulvey or Joe Bob Briggs in that sentence, 

do people cite Wade’s ratings as fact? Or Bryan or Scott Kieth or CRZ or any of our beloved DVDVR members? 

[Matt D]

1 hour ago, LF2 said:

I’d love to see somebody suck and still have matches half as good as:

King Of The Ring 2001 vs Shane McMahon (while working their third match of the card)

Royal Rumble 03 vs Benoit

Wrestlemania 21 vs Shawn Michaels

No Way Out 06 vs Undertaker

He has one gear: dumb.

[dragonzombie]

I love Kurt Angle.

[For Great Justice]

Kurt was awesome. For whatever you say about Kurt not being a great wrestler, he was great at the gimmick of being a great wrestler.

[The Natural]

Do we all agree Dork Kurt Angle was the best iteration of Kurt Angle?

[The Natural]

For what it's worth I'd say Kurt Angle/Chris Benoit vs. Rey Mysterio/Edge from No Mercy 2002 was Kurt's best bout. Gave that *****. My 2002 MOTY closely followed by Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker also from No Mercy 2002 and that's *****.

[Octopus]

I personally like ratings and ranking lists and other fun, but I don’t look at them as definitive truths. Be it with individuals like Meltzer, Wade, @The Natural, @Matt D and websites accumulating broad votes or giving reviews and lists like Cagematch, Voices of Wrestling, Segunda Caida, various podcasts, etc. I just take what is being said as a look into the individual or specific collective group as a view into their own taste and potentially deeper ideologies towards art and wrestling. 
My dude Matt not liking Kurt should be unsurprising based on past opinions and thoughts on arguably comparable wrestlers. And that it is different than my opinion is a BEAUTIFUL thing. Love you, Matt. Maybe elsewhere where it won’t get lost in a NXT PPV thread, but I’d love a long write up on wrestling theory and how it applies to Kurt Angle.

 I’m pro-Kurt, myself. 

[Curt McGirt]

2 hours ago, For Great Justice said:

For whatever you say about Kurt not being a great wrestler, he was great at the gimmick of being a great wrestler.

*****

[Just Adam Bay Bay]

3 hours ago, Matt D said:

He has one gear: dumb.

How much dumb stuff can you name in the matches I listed? Minus the Shane one obviously since 95% of that was being an ECW tribute match (and thus dumb bumps). I honestly can’t think of anything dumb in the Benoit or Taker matches I listed, and unless a moonsault is considered dumb I don’t think the Shawn match had anything dumb either.

[Just Adam Bay Bay]

1 hour ago, Octopus said:

I personally like ratings and ranking lists and other fun, but I don’t look at them as definitive truths. Be it with individuals like Meltzer, Wade, @The Natural, @Matt D and websites accumulating broad votes or giving reviews and lists like Cagematch, Voices of Wrestling, Segunda Caida, various podcasts, etc. I just take what is being said as a look into the individual or specific collective group as a view into their own taste and potentially deeper ideologies towards art and wrestling. 
My dude Matt not liking Kurt should be unsurprising based on past opinions and thoughts on arguably comparable wrestlers. And that it is different than my opinion is a BEAUTIFUL thing. Love you, Matt. Maybe elsewhere where it won’t get lost in a NXT PPV thread, but I’d love a long write up on wrestling theory and how it applies to Kurt Angle.

 I’m pro-Kurt, myself. 

I’m clearly pro Kurt, and I can’t wait to meet him this summer at a local event that he’s doing a signing at. Plus the last PPV match my dad and I ever watched together was Kurt Angle vs Baron Corbin at Wrestlemania 35 (my dad passed away three weeks later), so I’ll always have a soft spot for Kurt because of that too.

[The Natural]

23 minutes ago, LF2 said:

I’m clearly pro Kurt, and I can’t wait to meet him this summer at a local event that he’s doing a signing at. Plus the last PPV match my dad and I ever watched together was Kurt Angle vs Baron Corbin at Wrestlemania 35 (my dad passed away three weeks later), so I’ll always have a soft spot for Kurt because of that too.

Enjoy meeting Kurt Angle and I'm sorry about your Dad. Losing a parent is the worst pain ever. This month, the 26th of June marks nine years since losing my late great Mum. My Mum was only 53. Love and miss you, Mum xxx.

Edited June 4, 2023 by The Natural

[Matt D]

I'm not going to relitigate the battles of years past on Angle. There are plenty of places on the internet you can find that. Some of it is definitely personal taste. It's best summed up by the story from 2004 where he got into a fight with Eddy Guerrero because Eddy was choosing to "Sell too much" instead of just getting on to the next spot, though. I can't speak for his TNA run, or even his WWECW run which I haven't revisited for a long time, but he struck me as someone who learned the mechanics of wrestling quickly, but being that he was not a fan, never quite understood the emotional resonance, which is by far the most important part. And then he received cover from his peers and predecessors due to how quickly and smoothly he learned how to hit spots and the fact that he gave each and every one of them a certain level of credibility that they deeply, voraciously craved. When it comes to match layout, suplexes, and intensity, he was basically the third Steiner brother, except for despite being an Olympic wrestler, he actually worked the mat a hell of a lot less than they did. Personally, I think it bored him to work the mat and he wanted to just hit spots instead. His style is full of empty shortcuts to excitement instead of actually putting in the emotional work. I'd liken it to how Dax talks a lot now about how people work for the kickouts instead of the finish, but that's just a symbol of other things to begin with.

Edited June 4, 2023 by Matt D

[Octopus]

The Eddie reference makes me smile because it reminds me of his first (I believe) WCW match against Terry Funk. It was to progress a Funk program (piledriving Flair on a table) but he was very giving to a young Eddie. Clearly put over Funk as strong but still a wild old coot that is still the legendary Terry Funk.

—-

Edit to add

Hangman’s go-go-go continual combo offense reminds me of Kurt at times. Which is where I thought you were going with the Angle-dislike.

Edited June 4, 2023 by Octopus

[Octopus]

Hey @LF2, sorry about your dad passing. Even with time that is very hard. I’m glad you have good wrestling memories with him.

[Dolfan in NYC]

I've got an idea....  

 

Spoiler

DOLFAN WATCHING BATTLEGROUND WHILE RUNNING ON AN ELLIPTICAL~!

... coming soon. 

[Ace]

Sgt. Slaughter and his daughter are having fits online on Lacey Evans' new DI gimmick. Despite the fact that she was an actual Marine and Sarge wasn't.