WWE Network Conversation

[Cobra Commander]

I'm pretty confident that the Worldwide/Pro episodes from this time had better competitive TV matches than World Championship Wrestling (certainly had more crowd heat). But one of these shows is on the network and the others are uploaded to YouTube by random dudes.

Also possible that late 1987 might be a bit of an era in regards to JCP TV.

-----

Anyways...

This year in the World Series, one team is from the area with a beloved local promotion on Peacock (The Rangers and World Class) The other team is from an area without any of those things (The Diamondbacks, and sadly there's no Arizona or Chicago territory wrestling on Peacock).

So let's take a trip to..

Mid-Atlantic Championship Wrestling (10/27/1984)

We open with Mike Rotundo vs Doug Vines joined in progress. It feels like at least half of these Mid-Atlantic episodes on Peacock involve Rotundo getting a babyface push. Rotundo wins with the Airplane spin

Ivan, Nikita, and Don Kernodle join Bob Caudle to complain about the Ivan/Don match with Manny Fernandez and Dusty Rhodes. Flashback to Don Kernodle signing a contract without reading it.

Next up Assassin #1 vs The Ultimate Assassin. Allegedly a main event anywhere in the world. You see he's an Ultimate Assassin because he can wrestle without a shirt on. The Ultimate Assassin is someone we've seen before according to Bob. Got a back and forth here. Assassin goes to his tights to grab a foreign object. Assassin unlaces the mask, and then Paul Jones comes into the ring, accidentally hits Assassin with the cane and the Ultimate Assassin gets the pin. Also his mask came off and it's Johnny Weaver. You see, if the Ultimate Assassin kept attempting the Weaverlock, I would have figured it out.

Next week, 3 contract signings for Starrcade 84!

Rewind to Jim Crockett announcing Ric Flair vs Dusty Rhodes in the Million Dollar Challenge. 3 stipulations: Smokin Joe Frazier is the referee, there'll be 3 judges (Joe Frazier, A Japanese person, and Kyle Petty) in case the match goes an hour, and... wait.. did I miss a stip.

Third match, Manny Fernandez vs Mark Fleming. Manny wins quick with a running/diving forearm. Manny's in a feud with Wahoo over the US title to go along with his feud for the tag team titles already mentioned.

We have another interview with Ivan/Nikita/Don Kernodle with text telling us how to get tickets for Starrcade 84.

Paul Jones and the Zambuie Express are with Bob Caudle. Bob has questions about the Assassin and Paul Jones wants to talk about the Zambuie Express. The Zambuie Express have a dream according to Paul Jones. Then The Assassin barges into the interview to be angry about Paul Jones walking out on him. But Paul Jones doesn't want to hang the laundry in public.

Fourth, The Long Riders (Black Bart/Ron Bass) vs Sam Houston and Brett Hart. Should we do the obligatory disclaimer on Hart? Feels like a double team atomic drop that launches the opponent into a tag is a less then effective move. Bart beats Hart with a running powerslam.

Dusty Rhodes joins Bob to talk about Starrcade 84 and everything else in the Dustyverse. Dusty says he could be the US Champ, the Tag Team Champ, the TV champ, by the time Starrcade arrives. Well. he is the booker.

Now it's Wahoo McDaniel vs Joel Deaton. Wahoo is a heel that hits guys hard, as opposed to his mode of hitting guys hard as a babyface. He wins quickly with an elbowdrop. Love Wahoo hitting guys so hard that it's picked up on a 1984 ring microphone

Here's a look at American Starship. David Crockett is making a mess in his pants for American Starship. We're seeing a recent American Starship match as they're taking on jobbers. Of course the American Starship are Scott Hall and Dan Spivey. The American Starship wins and they are apparently here to stay (technically true!)

"Coming Soon !! Battlestar 84. Watch for it"

The Long Riders and JJ Dillon join Bob Caudle. Another on-screen graphic for Starrcade 84. The Long Riders want competition.

Paul Jones joins Bob Caudle to explain that The Assassin admitted fault in their recent dispute. The Assassin shows up to turn face and throttle Paul Jones. The Zambuies show up to rescue Paul Jones. Is there gonna be an overlap between Face Assassin and Face Ole Anderson in this promotion?

Now it's time for Tully Blanchard vs Brian Adias. So it's like watching a World Class episode. Brian Adias is a house of fire early. Brian Adias airplane spins Tully but Tully's feet knocked the referee over. So Brian Adias grabs Tully's money and starts throwing it into the crowd until Blanchard jumps him. Tully gets disqualified for the ref bump and Brian Adias dropkicks him a few times.

Tully has some words with Bob Caudle after the match. These fans don't deserve Tully's money. Tully shoos Bob Caudle away and rants on Brian Adias some. He's very mad that his money was stolen from him. I think i've been growing to appreciate 1980s Tully Blanchard micwork lately. Being the 4th best micworker in a group with Ric Flair, Arn and Ole is what it is (5th best if we count JJ) but he had some good pre-Horsemen stuff.

Edited October 25, 2023 by Cobra Commander

[SirSmUgly]

I hate baseball. I'm quitting it.

I think if I were watching at the time, I'd be thinking of quitting Mid-South as I reach the end of 1985. This promotion, as weird as this will sound, is an example of how 1999-2000 WCW would have been remembered in the alternate universe kept Jericho and the Radicalz and let Vince Russo book the company with the single requirement that he still had to have TV wrestling matches longer than three minutes. 

The booking is an abomination with a lot of wasted talent that is sorely underutilized, a sprinkling of hopeful spots. and Joel Watts (like Tony S. in 1999) is engaging in what can only be described as wrestling commentary terrorism (appropriate term considering this utterly stupid Skandor Akbar stufff). I'll finally put all my thoughts down when I finally get through December, but my goodness. 

[Hamhock]

19 hours ago, Cobra Commander said:

Mid-Atlantic Championship Wrestling (10/27/1984)

We open with Mike Rotundo vs Doug Vines joined in progress. It feels like at least half of these Mid-Atlantic episodes on Peacock involve Rotundo getting a babyface push. Rotundo wins with the Airplane spin

and three days later, he and Windham debuted in the WWF.

Edited October 26, 2023 by Hamhock

[Cobra Commander]

So you’re saying that I’m almost to a really good era of Mid-Atlantic? (I might be violating the ceasefire I’ve been observing towards Rotunda/o since Bray died)

Certainly babyface Ole Anderson seems like the sort of thing that has to be seen purely for the sake of novelty.

[odessasteps]

I said on a pod with Beau that I think one of the issues with Starrcade 84 is you have both Ole Anderson AND the Assassin are babyfaces, which is just weird. 

[Cobra Commander]

That Johnny Weaver match I just saw makes me think that his stock would be slightly higher if he had worked more during an era of Mid-Atlantic that was preserved on tape.

Same goes for all the Florida guys who end up in JCP under Dusty.

But yeah, Assassin was on the same Starrcade card as Babyface Ole. One team of Assassin and Buzz Tyler. Another team of Ole Anderson and Don Kernodle’s brother. What a card.

[odessasteps]

It’s definitely the awkward middle child between Starrcade 83 and 85. Arguably, even Steamboat vs Tully isn’t good as you would expect it to be on paper.

[Cobra Commander]

How much of Ricky Steamboat’s 1984 is him eyeing the door to get out of the area? I know he retired at one point and he was in the WWF in early 85

It’s unfortunate that a giant swath of 1984 Mid-Atlantic isn’t on the network because it’s certainly a real rebuilding year of a promotion

For all the Flair/Arn vs Tully/Luger Horsemen split fantasy booking I’ve heard from Zellner/etc, having Flair be the one kicked out of the Horsemen and getting Flair vs Tully/Arn/Luger would have been an interesting idea too. But of course Dusty and Flair weren’t working that well together.

A non-Flair Horsemen feuding with Flair would have been more interesting than almost all of the post-1991 Horseman stuff

Like announce the lineup for the Horsemen in 1993, only to tell Flair at the end that he’s not in the group and the group beats him down (“the one thing we found out when you were gone is that we don’t need you”). Sure it wouldn’t have worked but nothing worked in 1993 WCW.

[odessasteps]

I’m sure he knew he would have been pushed down the card by Dusty had he try to stay. 

[Cobra Commander]

Let's go back to 1987 JCP and see if there's any non-squash matches.

World Championship Wrestling (10/17/1987)

First a look at Hiro Matsuda putting Tommy Young out with the Weaverlock. Not the most dangerous part of Tommy's job sadly.

Tony and David are at the desk. Tony announces the NWA is invading New York City (Nassau). Also our first look at THE MIGHTY WILBUR.

Match 1: Sting vs Gladiator #1. Sting is very soon gonna be the top face in the company. The Sting squash formula isn't down yet. Sting wins with the Stinger Splash quickly.
Sting joins Tony at the table. So they had the Sting retirement speech happen on TBS almost 26 years after his first Saturday Night appearance.

Match 2: The Sheepherders vs David Isley and John Savage. The Herders are in black tops, the exact look they would take to the WWF a little over a year later. Sheepherders do their thing for a few minutes, then Battering Ram and the double stomachbuster for the win.
The Sheepherders join David Crockett post match. Luke declares that the Elimination Process has begun. They're aiming for the Lightning Express and Johnny Ace is now one of them.

Welcome back to the Starrcade Control Center. One of the monitors behind Tony is showing Tony. It's an infinite loop of Schiavone's. Also Ron Garvin will defend the NWA title vs Ric Flair at Starrcade. Ronnie wearing a jean jacket because he's secretly Canadian. Also Ron Garvin will not defend the title between October 17th and Starrcade. Oh man, this title reign was just killed dead in the water, wasn't it? All the "Ron Garvin is the hunted" talk and then they 180.

Rewind to the saga of Nikita Koloff and Terry Taylor. Jim Crockett announces the unification between the NWA and UWF Television titles. For the first time ever in wrestling history (uhh). Man they're really pushing the Wrestling Network moniker, aren't they?

The Western States Heritage Champion Barry Windham is with Tony to talk about his match against UWF Champion Steve Williams. Windham says he's good friends with Steve Williams. Kinda wild how the UWF's secondary title is getting more of a heated build than the UWF's primary champ.

Match 3: Tully and Arn vs Rocky King and George South. Arn holding onto George South's head after a Sunset Flip so that Tully can come over to pound on him is creative. Tully launches Rocky King into Arn's knee while Arn's on the apron. George South gets ridiculous hangtime taking on the Spinebuster. Tully pins South with the Slingshot. Then Arn hits the gourdbuster on Rocky King postmatch.

Not sure if there's some Peacock thing, but they have a way of making it so that the commercial breaks only happen in the first half of these episodes and then we get like 40 minutes of no breaks. Which i'm not complaining about.

Match 4: Terry Taylor vs Larry Stephens. Eddie Gilbert is just so gloriously freeloading with this angle right now. Terry wins with the Figure Four.
Eddie and Terry join Tony. Eddie rips off the Jimmy Hart "what do you do with a horse" promo to open off (7 year rule?). Eddie insists John Ayres is actually his friend to close off.

We jump to Worldwide as Hiro Matsuda is making an entrance. Not sure if this music is dubbed or just generic. Hiro Matsuda will demonstrate the Oriental Sleeper on Tommy Young. Since Hiro Matsuda's evil, he doesn't wake up Tommy Young and then Johnny Weaver runs out but he can't wake up Tommy. Then Hiro Matsuda puts the Oriental Sleeper on Johnny Weaver. It looks like Hiro Matsuda is putting out Craig Sager. The babyfaces run out to break this up. Dusty will face Hiro Matsuda in Greensboro before Starrcade.

Lex and James J. Dillon join Tony. Okay, heel Lex Luger is probably a better promo that he gets credit for too. Dusty is gonna have to put a lot on the line to face Lex Luger.

Paul Jones and Tony are at the table as we finally see The Mighty Wilbur. He's a big jolly dude having a good time and Paul Jones doesn't like that. The Mighty Wilbur takes on Ricky Nelson from Pro. Wilbur wins with the splash. But he won't attack Ricky Nelson postmatch. Mighty Wilbur calls Paul Jones Puddinghead and Paul Jones is big mad about it. Meanwhile, Paul Jones is at the table and he promises that he will make Mighty Wilbur vicious.

COLLEGE FOOTBALL SCOREBOARD IS NEXT

Alabama beats #8 Tennessee by 19. #5 Auburn beats Georgia Tech. #7 Clemson beats Duke. #4 Florida State beats Louisville. #6 LSU beats Kentucky as shown on TBS. #2 Nebraska shuts out Oklahoma State. #1 Oklahoma crushes Kansas State. #13 Syracuse beats #10 Penn State and #9 UCLA beats #16 Oregon. And that's the College Football Scores for October 17th, 1987.

Match 5: Kevin Sullivan vs Tony Suber. Kevin Sullivan hits hard again. Sullivan working the arm. Sullivan beats Suber with a submission hold as he actually leaves his feet (kinda) to apply a head and arm lock.
Kevin Sullivan joins Tony. Sullivan is cutting promos about other people's matches at Starrcade. Love the JCP format of "just talk about everybody else in the promotion in your promos". Sullivan calls Dusty the only living legend in Wrestling (don't tell that to Larry Zbyszko). Also nobody knows Asia better than Kevin Sullivan. Sullivan was in a temple with Matsuda once and there was a painting which said "To be the King, you have to kill the King"

Match 6: Jimmy Valiant and Bugsy McGraw vs Rex King and Alan Martin. The Comedy Match babyfaces have united! Bugsy gets the pin with the splash.
Jimmy Valiant and Bugsy McGraw join Tony at the table. This is a pairing that is on something that isn't legal nor encouraged.

Now Dusty's with Tony. Dusty is looking for Hiro Matsuda. Also he has words for Lex. Lex is a college educated guy and Dusty's an asskicker from Austin. Dusty will sign anything to get Lex Luger at Starrcade.

Match 7: The Rock'n'Roll Express vs Robbie Idol and Eric Long. Ricky has a taped up shoulder. Morton gets the pin after a double DDT. Ricky valiantly not doing much while taped up.

Arn, Tully and JJ join Tony. Arn calls the Horsemen the Elite. Tully notes that they've worked hurt and won unlike Ricky Morton. 

Match 8: Michael Hayes and Jimmy Garvin vs Thunderfoot 1 & 2. They do the Honey Shot of female fans for Hayes/Garvin. Tony notes how Hayes/Garvin haven't been teaming long (just you wait). Hayes wins with the running bulldog.
David joins Hayes/Garvin/Precious at ringside. Jimmy Garvin declares he has Starrcade Fever. So that's why he lost his hair. Jimmy talks a little about Ron Garvin/Ric Flair.

Match 9: Ron Garvin vs Tommy Angel. Garvin plays the hits (hitting hard, Garvin Stomp). This is a little more dynamic than his last match. Garvin wins with the right hand. Our lame duck champ!
Ron Garvin joins Tony post-match. Ron says that he has Ric Flair's number. "You are a mere challenger, you're an ex-heavyweight champion, that's all there is". Man, they probably should have turned Garvin much quicker than they did because there's some real hubris bubbling.

Ric Flair joins Tony in a fine suit, hangover-hiding glasses, tie, vest, Rolex, rings. What an outfit. It's almost unfair to Garvin to put him in back to back interview segments with Flair. Meanwhile Ric Flair gets his shots in on Eddie Gilbert and the UWF because this promotion is about getting your shots in public. Man, that shot of Ric Flair on the monitor behind Ric Flair during this promo. "I'll be damned if you see me in some bar telling some floozy that I used to be the World Champion" (yeah that would suck). Ric Flair declares he'll make Ronnie Garvin the shortest lived World Champion of all time because it's a bad idea to get into a verbal war with Ric Flair in 1987.

Match 10: The Mighty Wilbur vs The Italian Stallion. Aw yes, our main event. Wilbur shaking hands at ringside and Paul Jones is mad. Wilbur shakes hands with Teddy Long and Stallion. Maybe Red Bastien forgot to tell Paul Jones how polite Wilbur is. Wilbur wins with the splash. Paul Jones wants Wilbur to stomp Stallion but he won't. Koloff and Warlord show up to stomp him instead.
Wilbur and Paul Jones join David at ringside. Paul Jones doesn't want Wilbur to talk. Paul Jones is enraged at being called Puddinghead. Kris Zellner comparing Paul Jones with Mr. Spacely just shaped my impression of Paul Jones. There's some Paul Jones universe stuff that i've seen that is not particularly interesting. This Paul Jones stuff is actually funny.

Match 11: The Midnight Express vs Rick Ryder and Mike Jackson. Rick Ryder is a relatively tiny dude and he just gets flinged to the floor. Jim Cornette gets his time in on commentary for this one. Bobby pins Ryder with a spinebuster off the second rope which I'd imagine didn't stick because the MX had a bunch of finishers that were less of a pain in the ass. Mike Jackson didn't do anything for the match, so good payday for him.
Jim Cornette gets in a few extra seconds of promo time to close out this show.

Well, this was also enhancement-a-riffic. But watching this show for anything except the promos is like going to Hooters for the food. This is a collection of mostly really good promos doing their promos with also a bunch of job matches in-between.

[Cobra Commander]

More wrestling? more wrestling! Let's go to one of the several End of 1983 World Class episodes which don't have a unique description of what's actually on the episode.

World Class Championship Wrestling (12/3/1983)

The 11/26/1983 episode is all encores (can't imagine how an episode with reaired music videos will play on Peacock since they can't air the actual music used). So, what about December 3rd? This episode will show matches from Reunion Arena.

Before we actually show matches, here's a rendition of the National Anthem by Ralph Pulley.

Match 1: Black Gordman, Tonga John and Boris Zhurkov vs Jose Lothario, Mike Reed, and Johnny Mantell. Black Gordman's hair is magnificent. Jose Lothario has TWO home towns. Gordman charges Lothario prematch but we start with Mantel and Tonga John. Mike Reed is an Uncle Rico looking dude. Reed is also in some peril early until he tags out to Mantell. Gordman vs Lothario is a fun series of exchanges. Man, Jose Lothario has awesome punches. I typed that before the sequence of Lothario punching all the heels one by one. Jose Lothario's a former boxer, if you couldn't tell from the left hands. A melee breaks out, we miss which move Mantell hits to pin Zhurkov. The faces win. Tonga John is a very green Barbarian. I know there's some Houston Wrestling Jose Lothario on YouTube, but man, that's some quality old man wrestling from Jose. The Peacock helpfully notes when Jose's wrestling shows, which is amusing since he's doing a lot of enhancement around this time. Maybe they want us to see him punch some heels.

Some comments from the Von Erich Brothers in regards to the upcoming Mike Von Erich vs Skandor Akbar match.

Sam Muchnick is in the crowd for this card (which was taking place on the same night as Starrcade 83 and other Thanksgiving night shows). Bing Devine is also in the crowd.

Match 2: Mike Von Erich vs Skandor Akbar. I already typed the "Mike Von Erich looks like James Robert from the Waltons" the last time I typed about a Mike match. Okay, Akbar might have more magnificent hair than Black Gordman. This match makes me think there's some good Skandor Akbar matches lost to time because he put in the work to make his bosses kid look good, or at least not awful. Mike wins with a rollup after Akbar got a whip from his second.

Match 3: The Super Destroyers vs Iceman King Parsons and the Junkyard Dog for the American Tag Team titles. Bill declares the red masked Destroyer to be #1 and the gold masked Destroyer to be #2. Iceman really did one of the more odd/hilarious things possible with his remaining amount of hair. Dog really flipping selling a charge into a suddenly empty corner. We got some blood from Iceman. Nice of Bronko to take a look at that cut. Dog gets the hot tag and goes after both Super Ds. Iceman is leaving and the Dog is going 2 on 1. Iceman returns wearing a bandage. Which is a disqualification for some reason (seen that finish before in an old WWF match). Then Akbar lights up a fireball at Iceman (wouldn't say he threw that fire, he just lit it next to him)

Well, that was an interesting show mostly for old dudes being better than you'd expect.

[Gorman]

Thoughts on Massacre on 34th Street

Joey Matthews & Christian York scored their first PPV win and won the services of Dawn Marie! But then Simon & Swinger beat them down and Dawn Marie immediately turned on them. If you count the main event of November to Remember, Dawn Marie turned on her guys in back-to-back matches.

Worst fan sign: I'D RATHER WATCH PAINT DRY -- Why did you buy a ticket?

CW Anderson is the MVP for scoring a breakthrough win over Tommy Dreamer. He even kicked out of the Spiccoli Driver. This match featured old-school cell-phone shots by Lou E. Dangerously and Paul E. Dangerously.

Doring & Roadkill would have had to break up if they lost, but they hit the Buggy Bang to win the tag team belts from the FBI.

Most extreme sign of the night: MIKEY + TAJIRI - BRING ME THEIR HEADS (the heads belonged to Super Crazy and mystery partner Kid Kash)

Spike Dudley sought revenge for a broken leg against Rhino, and he had the great idea to tape Rhino's leg to the ropes and beat it with a chair. But Rhino broke free and won with the sleeper to retain the TV title. Rhino was looking unstoppable at this point.

 

[Cobra Commander]

reading the Mighty Wilbur's CageMatch page and two things

1) I'm not surprised at all that they ran six man tags with the team of Jimmy Valiant, Bugsy McGraw, and Mighty Wilbur. Not sure any of those matches were on TV but they ran them on a few shows.

2) I knew that Wilbur breaks his leg in the leadup to Bunkhouse Stampede, but his career was really short. At least he didn't have much that was on CageMatch pre or post JCP. Someone probably pitched Mighty Wilbur to JCP as being their Hillbilly Jim and they didn't realize exactly how that would come true. (Pitching a guy as "their Hillbilly Jim" 3 years after Jim debuted in the WWF would be par for the course, right?)

[SirSmUgly]

OK, look, here's my 1985 Mid-South review:

The Best:

• Jake Roberts - He just gets over everywhere he goes. He's the prototype for the modern charismatic tweener. He's already a legend
• The Barbarian - Though John Nord is only the second best Barbarian in pro wrestling, that's still a pretty good achievement!
• The Fantastics - They rule. They are definitely my favorite pretty boy babyface tag team of the era. I know people are partial to the Fabs or the Rock 'n Rolls, and I can't disagree with that point, but I'm gonna have to stan the Fantastics instead. 

 

The Worst: 

• The Nightmare - Look, I am Moondogs-neutral, but this dude should have been nowhere near a title. And no, I don't care that he ditched Eddie Gilbert for Humperdink. Not compelling in any way, shape, or form. 
• Lord Humongous - Only Sid could make this stupid-ass gimmick even remotely work, and Sid ain't under the mask in Mid-South.
• The Snowman - That they even bothered trying to push this Fake Razor and Diesel-style gimmick for more than two seconds is pathetic. I am personally insulted on behalf of JYD. 
• Joel Watts - Someone slice out this nepo baby's voice box. This fuck almost made me miss that dunce Boyd Pierce (and then they had Pierce back at the desk one week, and I was like, nah, nevermind, I almost missed him, but nope). 

 

The WCW-style shitty booking

• The NA Championship booking - Why the fuck is the Nightmare the champ for any time at all? Then I think about who he lifted the gold from. Why the fuck is Terry Taylor the champ for any time at all? Is he the worst choice? No. Is he the best choice or anywhere near it? Absolutely not.
• The Tag Team Championship booking - The crowd wants Nord and Roberts to be champs. I want Nord and Roberts to be champs. Everyone wants Nord and Roberts to be champs. Who becomes the champs? Al Perez and Wendell GODDAM Cooley. Fuck off, Mid-South.
• Nord flipping on Roberts and joining Oliver Humperdink - Completely unsatisfying in every way. I didn't want to see this. No one did. 
• Hacksaw Duggan vs. an endless supply of dudes that Skandor Akbar brings in - Bad because as much as I cannot stand Duggan, he should really just be the champ for most of this year, or at least as much of the year as possible. And you know, if you need a short-term transitional heel champ, Kamala is around for most of the year and is still pretty good (though man, he's already not nearly as athletic as he was in 1983). Duggan vs. Kamala in wild brawls with lots of jibber jabber and flim flam surrounding the matches >>>>>>> Terry Taylor feuding with the Nightmare. 
• Bill Watts vs. Akbar - If I have to hear either one of these dudes talk about "terrorist" tactics again, I shall do something awful. If Watts wants to wrestle, fine, but my god, the set-up and the promos for this thing suck so bad, and of course, Watts leaving the desk to mix it up with Akbar and his 107 guys he has under contract takes up time that could have been spent on anything else. Oh, and Puerto Rican terrorist martial artist El Faln (which is supposed to be Flan, maybe? Is this man a dessert?) isn't one-one hundredth as great as Puerto Rican martial artist Kwang. 

 

The initial sweetness that was overtaken by sourness

• Dr. Death and Ted DiBiase - They're easily one of the three or four best things on TV at one point, but DiBiase's off to tour with All Japan, and Bob fucking Sweetan replaces him, and they lose the belts to Cooley and Perez, and boy, was my buzz killed. Look, all I wanted was tweener Jake and Barbarian vs. the Fantastics. It's right there! A feud that would almost certainly be a great one that we still talk about today! FUCK
• Brad Armstrong, North American Champion - You elevate this guy out of nowhere to the top title and he does zero with it before dropping it to DiBiase like five or six weeks later. Well, that was an interesting booking decision to start, and then it quickly wasn't interesting anymore because there didn't seem to be any plan past the initial title change. 
• Brad Armstrong, tag partner of Brickhouse Brown - This team had a ton of potential, I think, but Armstrong shortly leaves the territory and Brickhouse just jobs a lot after that. Missed opportunity. 

I could go on. This was, I mentioned earlier, a glimpse into a 1999/2000 WCW that retained all its killer midcard talent. Sort of chaotic in the booking, most of which falls flat. A lot of title switches that are totally unnecessary or that are "surprising" in the moment, but after the shock wears off, the booking result doesn't feel great. There's a little bit of not pulling the trigger on guys who needed to have the trigger pulled on them (Jericho and Eddy, meet Jake and Nord) and some inexplicable pushes of guys who don't quite warrant them at the level they get (Jeff Jarrett, may I introduce you to Al Perez?). Some of the presentation choices in the show change from week to week - theme songs, whether or not they'd have a ring announcer, stuff like that. 

This is a promotion in panic (obviously, we know the history), and to me, everything about the shows screams "Vince McMahon might put us out of business at any moment and also he's ruining pro wrestling to do it, WTF do we do" for most of this year. 

It's not quite calamitous from an artistic standpoint, but boy, this much talent being totally mis-booked should be a crime. It's sort of a failure on par with 98-99 WCW in my view, which I know will be way too strong a comparison for some folks. I'm not saying they're exactly the same level of bad booking, but I don't think '85 Mid-South is that far off! 

I'm assuming that there's no UWF on here? I don't know that I'm going to go back and watch the Power Pros from '85 because as you can probably tell, I didn't love this year! I wouldn't mind watching through the UWF run to the end, though, and maybe trying to catch the UWF/JCP stuff if it's on the Network. Then I guess it's off to either Dallas or the Carolinas in the early '80s to watch through that. 

 

 

[odessasteps]

Here’s an 1985 Brad & Terry Taylor vs MX match from World Class. JC discussed how it happened on the podcast.

 

[clintthecrippler]

2 hours ago, SirSmUgly said:

OK, look, here's my 1985 Mid-South review:

 

Absolutely right there with you on "The Best", much like when the Death Valley Driver 80s Memphis set came out and I ended up being blown away at how fully formed "Macho Man" Randy Savage was by the time he even got to the WWF, I ended up blown away by the end of 1985 by how fully formed Jake Roberts already was. And yes, him and Barbarian should have been the tag champions and the turn angle seemed like it just disappointed the fans instead of getting heat for The Barbarian. 

Also, there are a few Fantastics vs Bill Dundee & Dutch Mantel Houston and house show matches on Youtube that are well worth seeking out from that run. This one from I think Oklahoma City was probably my favorite out of all of them. I really wish if Bill Watts was hellbent on getting the belts back on a "pretty boy" team, it would have been to the Fantastics instead of Cooley and Perez so this series of matches could have been for the belts because they really were championship-match quality.

I agree on most of your "Worst" and "WTF Booking", especially the pushes of The Nightmare and The Snowman. I am a sucker for the Lord Humongous gimmick though and thought the debut win over Dick Murdoch was awesome "establish a monster" booking, even if I was frustrated that for how normally buttoned up Watts was when it came to logic in pro wrestling, they never really did explain how he was able to get away with wearing the mask. 

I'm definitely more a Hacksaw Duggan fan than you, but agree that both the feud with Akbar's Army and the North American Championship would have been done a lot of favors if those were just tied together in a nice shiny bow. You can even add intrigue to the idea that Duggan may need to vacate the championship due to the blinding angle (which I myself loved) and also give extra motivation for Bill Watts to be angry about the situation given his own historical ties with that championship.

That short-lived Brad Armstrong/Brickhouse Brown tag team actually was pretty damn fun. I do think there was more they could have done with Brickhouse, I think he could have been a good and credible transitional TV champion at some point. 

Quote

Look, all I wanted was tweener Jake and Barbarian vs. the Fantastics.

Holy crap I never put together until now that was a match they could have done and goddamn that would have been incredible.

@SirSmUgly If you have not fully completed 1985 yet, Dick Slater and Buzz Sawyer are on their way in to wreak havoc all over the promotion through the end of the year, and Butch Reed returns for a little bit as well. All three of those wrestlers in the main event mix at the end of the year definitely freshened things up as far as my own enjoyment went.

As for the transition into the UWF in 1986, the only 1986 episode on Peacock is a random episode from March from a time period when WWE Network's approach to territory footage was one-off episodes spotlighting names that would be bigger later on in WWE (that's how we got two random Smoky Mountain episodes from when Chris Jericho was there and a couple random GWF episodes from when Booker T was starting out).

There are however two Youtube playlists that have a good chunk of Mid-South and UWF 1986 covered between the two of them, links to both below:

I've been keeping up and I am into May 1986 now. First couple of months had some damn fun stuff with Jake Roberts and Dick Slater feuding over both the Television and North American Championships, and now I am into the period where the Fantastics are back and having wild matches damn near every week with the Sheepherders in what seems like it might be the last great tag team feud of the territory. Rick Steiner is in early days starting to develop, Eddie Gilbert is truly coming into his own as "Hot Stuff" (though saddled with managing the VERY MUCH still-green Blade Runners and two of the worst "foreign menaces" in wrestling history in Taras Bulba and Kortsia Korchenko), and Koko B Ware is providing some damn fun matches in the undercard, including one of the most infamous dropkicks off the top rope you'll ever see. I'm still having fun with it. 

[Cobra Commander]

The hottest topic on (some parts of) the Internet tonight is 1989. So let's go to..

WWF Prime Time Wrestling (10/30/1989)

It's a very special Halloween edition of Prime Time with Gorilla Monsoon dressed as Brother Love (calling himself "Brother Hate") and Bobby Heenan dressed as The Genius. Roddy Piper has yet to appear on camera.

Match 1: Greg Valentine vs The Red Rooster. Tony Schiavone and Lord Alfred on commentary. Terry Taylor's face run with this name/gimmick was far worse than his heel run with this name/gimmick. Greg Valentine is the right opponent if you want Terry to so some stupid looking strutting. Just remembered that Valentine and Taylor would hold the WCW US Tag Team titles in 1992. At least Greg Valentine's still hitting hard so that's nice. Rooster is on a Survivor Series team with Dusty Rhodes, which is funny if you remember the story of Terry Taylor accidentally burying himself in front of Dusty on the Crockett plane. Greg Valentine threatens his shinguard-aided leglock, so Ronnie Garvin runs out to attack Greg Valentine for a DQ. Gee, I wonder why Ronnie Garvin isn't on a Survivor Series team with Dusty. That's a tough one.

More Gorilla riffing on Brother Love in-between matches.

From the pages of the World Wrestling Federation Magazine: Hulk Hogan defeated Ted DiBiase recently on Saturday Night's Main Event, then Zeus showed up. Zeus wrenches Hogan's neck. Dibiase puts the Million Dollar Dream on Hogan. Jake Roberts runs out to make the save. Zeus walks away instead of trying to fight a snake.

Survivor Series Showdown on November 12th on USA Network! Ultimate Warrior vs Tully Blanchard! Smash vs The Million Dollar Man! Bushwhacker Butch vs Mr. Perfect! Main events in any arena.

Meanwhile in Studio B: Roddy Piper is trying to be Bobby Heenan. It looks like Roddy's accidentally riffing on Andy Warhol.

Match 2: Tito Santana vs Bob Emory. Got a JCP/WCW enhancement guy appearance on WWF TV. Tito Santana wins with the flying forearm in a few minutes. Schiavone calls it the Mexican Hammer, which, nobody else seriously called it that. Right?

Back to Roddy Piper trying to imitate Bobby Heenan. Not sure who the hell their wig person was at this time. Why is Roddy wearing a Ken Patera wig.

Match 3: Haku and Andre the Giant vs Mike Williams and Chuck Casey. Vince calling the sign a "poster" makes it sound more prestigious. Arn and Tully join Haku and Andre at ringside. Haku hitting 3 consecutive backbreakers looks impressive. Awesome Haku dropkick. Jesse gets a joke in that we won't be able to listen to The Who because Rock would be dead if Andre squashed The Rockers. Andre tags in and holds Casey for a Haku kick. Andre's elbowdrop is so bad during his later years and he gets the win with that move.

Hogan team promo for the Survivor series. "Multi-million Dollar Man" is to Hogan as "Doogan" is to Bill Watts. Jake Roberts standing next to Hulk Hogan is a reminder if you forgot that Jake is tall.

Bobby threatens to call Brother Love and tell him what Gorilla's doing.

Match 4: Dusty Rhodes vs Joe Cruz. Dusty wins in a few minutes with an elbowdrop. More WCW enhancement guys.

Meanwhile Roddy Piper talks about how he stole Bobby Heenan's red jacket a few weeks ago.

Sean Mooney reviews the Survivor Series card. Oh yeah, Barry Windham was still around the WWF at this time (he wouldn't make it to Survivor Series). We get some words from Dusty's team.

Gorilla has some info if you have a dish or descrambler and you wanna see the Survivor Series. Roddy doesn't get Rick Martel's new attitude.

Match 5: Rick Martel vs Mark Young. For some reason Rick Martel scrapped the dancing once he stopped coming out with Slick to "Jive Soul Bro". Mark Young getting some offense in so that this match has a commercial break in the middle. Gorilla namedropping Jamie Farr while mentioning the action is from Toledo. Mark Young with some real Los Gringos Locos level of American Flag tights. Mark Young also got some WCW matches in 1989 (under another name) and he's Chief Jay Strongbow's son. I guess Martel didn't have a manager as a heel after Slick because none of the heel managers really fit Martel or whatever. Martel wins with the Boston Crab.

Let's go to another edition of Brother Love. He will be Roddy Piper and his team on with him tonight. Piper, Snuka and the Bushwhackers sure is a foursome. Pretty sure these four all spent quite some time in Portland (and Piper had a Portland feud with the Sheepherders). 

Brother Love has barged onto Studio B and he is mad at Gorilla. He's also accidentally in the same studio with Roddy Piper. Roddy casually knocks out Brother Love with a backfist. Happy Halloween!

Match 6: The Bolsheviks vs Trent Knight and Reno Riggins. Boris gets the mic to sing the Soviet Anthem. Must be a B town if they can't get Nikolai to sing on the mic. Trent Knight! Who brought every NWA/WCW job guy to the WWF in 1989, JJ or Tony? Boris looks a lot more 'developed' in 1989 WWF than he looked in 1983 World Class. Reno Riggins had some WCW matches but worked more WWF. I don't think that Nikolai actually hit the backbreaker on his press into a backbreaker finish but he gets the pin with it.

Bobby is back and he tells Gorilla that Brother Love is on the way. Roddy puts a Halloween mask on the unconscious Brother Love.

Mr. Perfect is perfect at Ping Pong. This might seem weird, but MJF looks kinda similar to Curt Hennig facially (not hair-wise). I think Hennig is wearing Zubaz or just stripy pants.

Match 7: Jake Roberts vs Tony Burton. Not a JCP jobguy. The inset promos during matches might need to make a comeback one day. Jake wins with the DDT. There's a snake drop postmatch too.

Brother Love is awake and he is freaking out.

And our feature match is: Hercules vs Dino Bravo. Finally a matchup to settle which brand of steroids is the best. So much Wrestling Challenge on this week's edition of Prime Time. Roddy Piper's Heenan wig might actually be a Dino Bravo wig now that I see 1989 Dino Bravo. This Dino Bravo/Hercules match is from MSG for the record. When it comes to the topic of Rick Martel and managers, I think Rick Martel and Jimmy Hart could have been an interesting combo. Certainly more interesting than Dino Bravo and Jimmy Hart. For whatever reason, Rick Martel and Dino Bravo almost never ended up in the same match in the WWF (aside from 2 matches in Canada and several battle royals). But I don't think they had any heat that anybody mentioned. Meanwhile, Dino Bravo has Hercules in a bearhug. Kinda remarkable how Hercules turned face and kinda took Billy Jack Haynes role as a babyface for a year or so considering Herc feuded with Billy Jack. You'd think someone would figure out how to do a bearhug that doesn't leave them wide open for a bellringer to the ears. Herc puts Dino Bravo in the torture rack but then drops him and tries for a pin because.. sure? Holy hell, Hercules could get enough air for a sunset flip in 1989? Bravo counters that sunset flip into a sitdown and gets the pin with his hands on the ropes. Hercules reacts to putting Dino Bravo in the full nelson as Dino celebrated. Our hero! Jimmy Hart gets some action and then flees before Hercules could touch him.

November 12th, Survivor Series Showdown! Hercules vs Macho King! Tito Santana vs Big Boss Man! The 3 matches announced earlier. Gorilla declaring "So Long Tully" in regards to him facing the Warrior which is interesting timing.

The scary thing about Gorilla's Brother Love outfit... that's not makeup on his face. (joke stolen from the Simpsons).

Meanwhile in Studio B. Roddy Piper is calling Bobby Heenan a weasel. Roddy Piper also has some rules for the children for Halloween. Roddy doesn't want the kids to get hit by cars or go in strangers houses or eat candy before going home. Thanks Roddy!

This might not be the 1989 that everybody is talking about tonight.

[Gorman]

Thoughts on Just Another Night

Before wrapping up the ECW shows, I discovered this hidden gem. So instead of a slickly produced 2001 pay-per-view, we go back to ... a single-camera shoot in a Pennsylvania high school gym with Stevie and Meanie doing the Fargo Strut? I feel right at home!

Indeed, they were our Steel City wrestling tag team champions at one point. They also did the Fargo Strut later in the night with Cactus Jack, who held the Steel CIty heavyweight title and also won the tag belts with Meanie. 

JT Smith attacked partner Joel Hartgood because he was unable to learn the Tarantella dance. Fun fact: When I was a little kid, my siblings and I were in an Italian dance group, and the Tarantella was our big showstopper number.

For a house show in Glenolden, this card was impressive: Cactus-Bigelow, Sabu-Scorpio, and Raven-Douglas. 

Sandman was the MVP for caning Bad Crew and Hartgood at the beginning of the show, beating Axl Rotten and showing him respect in the middle, and forming a beer-soaked alliance with Douglas with the intent to get the ECW title off Raven at the end of the night.

[SirSmUgly]

10 hours ago, clintthecrippler said:

Absolutely right there with you on "The Best", much like when the Death Valley Driver 80s Memphis set came out and I ended up being blown away at how fully formed "Macho Man" Randy Savage was by the time he even got to the WWF, I ended up blown away by the end of 1985 by how fully formed Jake Roberts already was. And yes, him and Barbarian should have been the tag champions and the turn angle seemed like it just disappointed the fans instead of getting heat for The Barbarian. 

Yeah, 1985 Jake was already legendary Jake, which my cut-off sentence was trying to get at. I really wish that his late '70s/early '80s Stampede run was laid out everywhere so I could see him work there. Heck, I wanna see JYD in Stampede, too. That promotion is an important connective tissue that I would kill for curated video of. I'll YouTube around and see what I can find. 

That crowd completely died when Barbarian confronted Humongous and then they both jumped Jake. I let out a "fuck you" at the screen that has only recently been used a few times on my WCW rewatch (mostly at the end of PPV main events). 

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Also, there are a few Fantastics vs Bill Dundee & Dutch Mantel Houston and house show matches on Youtube that are well worth seeking out from that run. This one from I think Oklahoma City was probably my favorite out of all of them. I really wish if Bill Watts was hellbent on getting the belts back on a "pretty boy" team, it would have been to the Fantastics instead of Cooley and Perez so this series of matches could have been for the belts because they really were championship-match quality.

The Dundee heel turn seemed sort of random and out of nowhere, but this has been a solid feud so far! The little person wrestler rocking Dundee's pink jacket was great (as was Dundee doing a cartoon tumble trying to chase him and get it back). I mean, the Fantastics should be tag champs right now instead and not in this mid-card feud, but you can't fault any of the guys in the feud. It also gives Mantell a little direction, as they sort of had him here and there, mini-feuding with Reed and doing other stuff when he's a solid worker and talker and probably needed to come in to Mid-South with more focus. 

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There are however two Youtube playlists that have a good chunk of Mid-South and UWF 1986 covered between the two of them, links to both below:

This is valuable, and it'll keep me watching to the end of '86. Thank you so much. 

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I've been keeping up and I am into May 1986 now. First couple of months had some damn fun stuff with Jake Roberts and Dick Slater feuding over both the Television and North American Championships, and now I am into the period where the Fantastics are back and having wild matches damn near every week with the Sheepherders in what seems like it might be the last great tag team feud of the territory. Rick Steiner is in early days starting to develop, Eddie Gilbert is truly coming into his own as "Hot Stuff" (though saddled with managing the VERY MUCH still-green Blade Runners and two of the worst "foreign menaces" in wrestling history in Taras Bulba and Kortsia Korchenko), and Koko B Ware is providing some damn fun matches in the undercard, including one of the most infamous dropkicks off the top rope you'll ever see. I'm still having fun with it. 

I'm interested to see especially the Fantastics/Sheepherders stuff. I feel like one of the few who wasn't impressed by their feud in JCP a couple years later. Maybe it's because that feud came off a Fantastics/MX feud that might be my favorite tag feud ever, so it was sort of a letdown in comparison for me. 

[odessasteps]

I still have vivid memories of watching the barbed wire cage match on UWF TV. 

[Cobra Commander]

I’m sure someone has typed or talked about it before but 1989 WWF had a “JCP in exile” underbelly which wasn’t just enhancement guys
 

Arn, Tully, Dusty, Windham, Garvin, Powers of Pain, Bossman in mid-88, Bushwhackers, Schiavone, JJ

and then almost all of those guys are out of the WWF by 1991 (except Bossman, Powers, and JJ)

[Mister TV]

43 minutes ago, Cobra Commander said:

I’m sure someone has typed or talked about it before but 1989 WWF had a “JCP in exile” underbelly which wasn’t just enhancement guys
 

Arn, Tully, Dusty, Windham, Garvin, Powers of Pain, Bossman in mid-88, Bushwhackers, Schiavone, JJ

and then almost all of those guys are out of the WWF by 1991 (except Bossman, Powers, and JJ)

I always wished Arn stayed another year or two, so we could have gotten a New Brain Busters/Different Colossal Connection with him and Haku.

[Cobra Commander]

18 minutes ago, Mister TV said:

I always wished Arn stayed another year or two, so we could have gotten a New Brain Busters/Different Colossal Connection with him and Haku.

Not sure if Arn beats out the Barbarian in the eyes of 1990 Vince (not to mention that Arn's reason for leaving JCP was now working in the WWF with him). But there were Arn/Haku teams on some cards for the period in-between Tully getting fired and Arn leaving.

I doubt that the WWF would have had Arn Anderson be a Heenan Family enforcer for Rick Rude and Mr. Perfect.

Of course Gorilla saying "So Long Tully" on a show broadcast October 30th only for Tully to get fired November 1st can be explained since Tully was already leaving the company before that.

[Stefanie Sparkleface]

17 hours ago, SirSmUgly said:

 

• The Barbarian - Though John Nord is only the second best Barbarian in pro wrestling, that's still a pretty good achievement!

It's like being the second best Michael Jordan. The bar's really high, man.

[zendragon]

How high exactly is that bar?

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfYbCt49wx0