Elsalvajeloco Posted November 3, 2017 Author Share Posted November 3, 2017 2 minutes ago, supremebve said: I value titles as well, but being the best and being the champion are two completely different things. This is a sport where anyone can beat anyone on the right day, so I try to look at these things more objectively. Michael Bisping is at best the 5th best middleweight in my estimation. Except the sport isn't run by estimations. He is the champ so therefore he is the best. We can run through every simulator in the world. In reality, he is the middleweight champion. Once he loses, he will no longer be the best. You ain't the best until you have actually achieved that honor. Once whoever beats him or he retires (whichever comes first), the person who reigns after is that guy. I don't care if the way he won or lost is the flukiest of flukes. So it don't matter if Luke Rockhold wins 99 out of 100 times. Did he win the last time? No? So here we are. You only need to hit the jackpot once. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaedmc Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 Jesus christ, Joanna bringing the crazy shit talking. Told Rose at the staredown she's going to take her fucking soul. Seems like with every win, you can see a little more crazy in Joanna. She's like three wins away from sitting on a throne of skulls and shooting lighting out of her fingers. I think I'm flipping again and rooting for GSP, just because I want to see a guy like that leave and comeback and when a title. It's a crazy fairy tale that can replace dumbshit Jon Jones' comeback. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 Just now, Elsalvajeloco said: Except the sport isn't run by estimations. He is the champ so therefore he is the best. We can run through every simulator in the world. In reality, he is the middleweight champion. Once he loses, he will no longer be the best. You ain't the best until you have actually achieved that honor. Once whoever beats him or he retires (whichever comes first), the person who reigns after is that guy. I don't care if the way he won or lost is the flukiest of flukes. So it don't matter if Luke Rockhold wins 99 out of 100 times. Did he win the last time? No? So here we are. You only need to hit the jackpot once. Champion is an imperfect measurement. Is Max Holloway a better fighter than Conor McGregor? Is Conor McGregor better than Tony Ferguson? Is Robert Whitaker better than Michael Bisping? One of those dudes is better than the other and they are all champions. Who is the best when there are multiple champions? If Bisping retires and somehow Whitaker's knee injury keeps him out long enough for them to crown yet another middleweight champion, would that guy be better than Bisping or Whitaker? What if the champion retires and there is no champion, can we not have a conversation about who is the best fighter in the division? We are allowed to look at these things and judge who is the best outside of the title of champion. The champion is a title that means something, but it doesn't necessarily mean you are the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted November 3, 2017 Author Share Posted November 3, 2017 13 minutes ago, supremebve said: Champion is an imperfect measurement. Is Max Holloway a better fighter than Conor McGregor? Is Conor McGregor better than Tony Ferguson? Is Robert Whitaker better than Michael Bisping? One of those dudes is better than the other and they are all champions. Who is the best when there are multiple champions? Conor isn't a featherweight anymore. Ferguson and Whittaker are just interim champions. They didn't win the real belts. In a situation with Cormier, it is clear PEDs or otherwise, Jon Jones will be his white whale. However, since Jon is once again unable to fight for time being, Cormier is the best fighter in the division. Now in boxing, the alphabet soup people took their own credibility away. UFC has done that to that degree but UFC never recognized two or more people to have full status as the champion of the division. We had like ninety interim champs but none of those guys were full champ while the UFC was recognizing another full champ. The WBA will have an interim champ, a regular champ, and a Super champ. There have been cases where we had two interim WBA champs in one division. The UFC hasn't done anything like that. You can have a full champ and one interim champ, and that's totally fine because the interim championship now is a de facto number #1 contender stamp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 2 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said: Conor isn't a featherweight anymore. Ferguson and Whittaker are just interim champions. They didn't win the real belts. In a situation with Cormier, it is clear PEDs or otherwise, Jon Jones will be his white whale. However, since Jon is once again unable to fight for time being, Cormier is the best fighter in the division. Now in boxing, the alphabet soup people took their own credibility away. UFC has done that to that degree but UFC never recognized two or more people to have full status as the champion of the division. We had like ninety interim champs but none of those guys were full champ while the UFC was recognizing another full champ. The WBA will have an interim champ, a regular champ, and a Super champ. There have been cases where we had two interim WBA champs in one division. The UFC hasn't done anything like that. You can have a full champ and one interim champ, and that's totally fine because the interim championship now is a de facto number #1 contender stamp. https://media.giphy.com/media/3oAt2dA6LxMkRrGc0g/giphy.gif I'm done for the day, this has been fun though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted November 3, 2017 Author Share Posted November 3, 2017 2 minutes ago, supremebve said: http://media.giphy.com/media/3oAt2dA6LxMkRrGc0g/giphy.gif I'm done for the day, this has been fun though. How are you not understanding this? Robert Whittaker isn't fighting GSP. MICHAEL BISPING (the other dude on the poster who isn't Georges St-Pierre or the bantamweights) is fighting GSP for the ACTUAL middleweight title. If you want to use a cheat sheet, look at the URL of this thread. It's not that hard to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 Just now, Elsalvajeloco said: How are you not understanding this? Robert Whittaker isn't fighting GSP. MICHAEL BISPING (the other dude on the poster who isn't Georges St-Pierre or the bantamweights) is fighting GSP for the ACTUAL middleweight title. If you want to use a cheat sheet, look at the URL of this thread. It's not that hard to understand. I understand what you are coming from. I just don't agree. Wearing a belt means you are a champion, that does not mean you are the best. Jon Jones was better than Shogun Rua before he beat him for the title. Anderson Silva was better than Rich Franklin before he won the title. Luke Rockhold, Yoel Romero, and Robert Whitaker are better fighters than Michael Bisping right now. If GSP wins, I'd argue those dudes are better than him too. Winning a belt means you beat the guy with the belt and that is all. Michael Bisping is still the rightful champion. Being champion and being the best are two different things. Michael Bisping hasn't fought a worthy challenger since he won that title over a year ago. You can be the champion and not be the best. You can be the best and not be the champion. Winning the championship means something. I respect the title of champion. That does not mean that the champion is the end of the discussion of who the best fighter is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaedmc Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 What I've learned. People who win the championship aren't the best. And People who say they're done for the day aren't done for the day. This world is just one big hall of lies. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death From Above Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 http://www.tsn.ca/ufc/video/tsn-original-the-mind-of-gsp~1247114 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted November 3, 2017 Author Share Posted November 3, 2017 1 hour ago, supremebve said: Wearing a belt means you are a champion and that you are the best. Thus, we are in agreement. If you aren't the best as the champion, then you are not the champion and just lugging some leather and metal through an airport for no particular reason at all. I respect being the champion. Now let me write entire spiel about not respecting people who are champions. LOL. Anyway: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted November 3, 2017 Author Share Posted November 3, 2017 BTW Corey Anderson vs. OSP is now on FS1 due to Ion Cutelaba disclosing a potential substance that might cause a USADA violation on his medical forms. So that particular fight is off and Anderson vs. St. Preux on the TV portion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted November 4, 2017 Author Share Posted November 4, 2017 Joanna's Boogie woman promo from the weigh ins: Great MMA promo or greatest MMA promo? She reminded me of the Soviet bad guy from First Blood Part II. "Rose, you may scream...there is no shame." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ka-to Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 UFC cut ticket prices by 50% or so today. I just picked up a 2nd row 200 level for $106. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaedmc Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 32 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said: Joanna's Boogie woman promo from the weigh ins: Great MMA promo or greatest MMA promo? She reminded me of the Soviet bad guy from First Blood Part II. "Rose, you may scream...there is no shame." For a second I was like, if she keeps this shit up she'll turn heel. Then she kept it up and now she's the fucking Usos. The Boogie Woman is coming to break you and leave with your soooooooul. Poor Rose. I can't tell if she's actually shook, or if she's that psycho kid from class that always looks like they're about to cry and secretly skins cats behind the Long John Silvers. Part of the way she talks sounds like she knows she's going to get her face melted but by god she's going to take it like a man. Or Woman. Whatever. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hail Sabin Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 Yeah Rose is hard to figure out she had the same demeanor before fighting Karolina and Karate Hottie where she got two very different results. We all know if Rose can get her down we have never seen Joanna's ground game but going into the Cookie Monster fight everyone was worried about her takedown defense and Joanna stuffed so many takedowns. I think Joanna Champion will win but it should be a hell of a battle. It will also be interesting to see if Joanna can finish her or if it goes to the Judges again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.T. Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 13 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said: Joanna's Boogie woman promo from the weigh ins: Great MMA promo or greatest MMA promo? She reminded me of the Soviet bad guy from First Blood Part II. "Rose, you may scream...there is no shame." I could see someone trying to pin the nickname, Baba Yaga, on her. 13 hours ago, jaedmc said: Poor Rose. I can't tell if she's actually shook, or if she's that psycho kid from class that always looks like they're about to cry and secretly skins cats behind the Long John Silvers. I think it is the latter. Rose reciting the Lord's Prayer at the weigh-in reminded me of this. Rose is praying for the absolution of Joanna's soul, not her own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 Fuck sleep, watching this bad boy/girl live... ...and will feel a don't say the Z word in Shaun of the Dead (2004). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted November 4, 2017 Author Share Posted November 4, 2017 6 hours ago, Hail Sabin said: Yeah Rose is hard to figure out she had the same demeanor before fighting Karolina and Karate Hottie where she got two very different results. We all know if Rose can get her down we have never seen Joanna's ground game but going into the Cookie Monster fight everyone was worried about her takedown defense and Joanna stuffed so many takedowns. I think Joanna Champion will win but it should be a hell of a battle. It will also be interesting to see if Joanna can finish her or if it goes to the Judges again. Not that I believe she will forget anything, but this is Joanna's first fight in the absence of Kami Barzini, who has joined Combat Club and followed Robbie Lawler there. I think with how rough and rugged Andrade is, she needed the presence of Barzini for that camp. I think it is interesting for Joanna to take on someone who isn't gonna to use conventional wrestling or takedowns. If Rose gets her back, we might be in for a hell of a round if not fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted November 4, 2017 Author Share Posted November 4, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted November 4, 2017 Author Share Posted November 4, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted November 4, 2017 Author Share Posted November 4, 2017 Oh boy, Ricardo Ramos with a KO of the Year canididate. That was brutal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaedmc Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 YEEEEOUCH the finish of Zahabi vs. Ramos. Spinning back elbow just crushed Zahabi, who I thought was on his way to winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted November 4, 2017 Author Share Posted November 4, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaedmc Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 I mean how bad is it that he KNEW Ramos was trying to do it, checks him, and Ramos was just like, Nah Imma let you finish but this back elbow is the greatest of all time. That's the kind of shit that haunts a guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaedmc Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 Whhaaaaaaat the fuuuuuuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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