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Elsalvajeloco

2016 Non-Event General MMA Talk Thread

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I think it's probably gonna come down to her wanting X amount of dollars, which could conceivably outprice the major bidders. That even goes for Bellator who desperately needs someone noteworthy in their female division who can bring viewers and is backed/owned by a major media conglomerate. Therefore, Invicta and orgs like RFA and Legacy wouldn't even have a chance. RIZIN would probably be the dark horse, but it's not like they have a strong guarantee towards female MMA. You can pay her, but you can also bring in someone's niece or like some Shootboxing lady to accomplish the same goal.

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She says she's been offered MMA contracts but her agents has turned all of them down.  Is her striking even there at all?  Would she go amateur route at all?

Rousey at least had several amateur bouts before she went pro.

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21 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

She says she's been offered MMA contracts but her agents has turned all of them down.  Is her striking even there at all?  Would she go amateur route at all?

Rousey at least had several amateur bouts before she went pro.

Right now, the lowbar for Olympic women is Randi Miller. She would have to be spectacularly awful to reach that level.

Anyway, I think that's kinda a totally separate issue especially as someone who competes above bantamweight. It's about maximizing potential and learning how to capitalize on opportunities. If you're on the Jordan Burroughs tip of "I'm good...I don't want to get my face beat in", then you were not going to compete anyway (even though someone like Luke Thomas has a hard-on for you and wants you to compete).

If you're going to compete in a totally different combat sport as a high level athlete, you have to accept something bad could happen along with a lot of good. That's just what it is. Yeah, you're going to get a fighter like Marina Shafir is a supremely talented (w/ a hint of charisma) but a supremely weak chin to go with it. That's going to happen, but we also have a ton of success stories. I'm not saying don't question those aspects, but I am saying that at some point we have to look at the other side. If you have competent matchmaking (much like Rousey on the way up and other women making that transition), you can open up your own doors once you get to a certain level. If she goes 2-0 or 3-0, she is already a top ten featherweight by default. You can't really say that about any other women in the sport. You get a couple stellar finishes, then people are going to think about breaking out the checkbooks. And it's not like there isn't a road for that. She can't beat that one Italian chick that fought in Bellator who had that inflated record? I'm confident at 0-0 with a couple months of training, she could demolish that chick. You don't have to throw her in against an Amanda Bell or someone like that off the bat. It should be like the old days for Olympic boxers. You smash this one level, then you move up to the next and then the next. If you have no faith in the organization(s) to do the right things when it comes to prospects, then you probably shouldn't compete.

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On 11 August 2016 at 7:09 PM, TheVileOne said:

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2016/8/10/12423368/georges-st-pierre-interview-ufc-return-usada-process-testing-mcgregor-bisping-fight-mma

GSP said he was first offered Michael Bisping for a UFC return.  It's off the table now due to Bisping/Hendo.

Michael Bisping happier to avenge a defeat or wish he was up against GSP in his first fight since November 2013?
 

On 11 August 2016 at 9:17 PM, Elsalvajeloco said:

Second gold medal for Harrison, who has stated her interest in doing MMA.

Kayla Harrison beat Gemma Gibbons for the gold medal in the London 2012 Olympics. More to follow...

 

19 hours ago, WholeFnMachine said:

I love Kayla Harrison, she's an amazing athlete and just an incredible person if you know her story, what a survivor. However I wouldn't necessarily get my hopes up on her doing MMA.

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=17277597&ex_cid=espnfb

I was supporting Gemma Gibbons as she's a Brit like me. Knowing Kayla's story I thought if anybody could beat one of our own, I'm fine with Kayla as the one. Glad she retained her title. FYI Gemma Gibbons missed out on representing Team GB this time around.

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I think Bisping cares more about defending his title to get another money fight down the line rather than getting his win back.

 

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Evans went from near retirement to getting on MSG. Dana must love the guy.

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9 minutes ago, Shawn411 said:

Evans went from near retirement to getting on MSG. Dana must love the guy.

Or he is from New York state and that makes sense to do it there. It's not like this will be the only MSG card ever. 

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This CM Punk documentary is fascinating. They're showing sparring footage from the start and he was so... SO fucking bad. 

HAHA, Ben Askren hit him with a stunner in a warm-up session.

Edit: sorry for posting in the wrong thread. I thought he was on 202 not 203. 

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23 minutes ago, Oyaji said:

This CM Punk documentary is fascinating. They're showing sparring footage from the start and he was so... SO fucking bad. 

As you would expect with a ex pro wrestler in his mid 30s fresh from exiting that profession and little to no experience training.

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But worse. Like that part where I think it was Scott Cushman was just feeding him stuff and saying "what am I giving you?" and Punk is getting pushed into a corner, overwhelmed... that shit was horrifying. If he's even just competent by the 4th episode and in time for 203, then Roufusport are miracle workers and Punk is a helluva student.

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14 hours ago, Oyaji said:

But worse. Like that part where I think it was Scott Cushman was just feeding him stuff and saying "what am I giving you?" and Punk is getting pushed into a corner, overwhelmed... that shit was horrifying. If he's even just competent by the 4th episode and in time for 203, then Roufusport are miracle workers and Punk is a helluva student.

What's funny is when you really think about...there is no blueprint for pro wrestlers getting in on the ground level. The level of success we assign to pro wrestlers is what would also be ascribed to prospects who have that same ability. Dudes like Don Frye, Dan Severn, Lesnar, and Lashley had legit amateur wrestling pedigrees. If you told someone a guy like Lesnar was a NCAA D1 champ, was strong as an ox, and was skilled enough to dominate an ex-UFC HW champ, he would be on top ten prospect lists everywhere from day one. However, as a pro wrestler, people think he doesn't have a chance against someone like Randy Couture. Barnett was doing MMA since he was 19 so that automatically eliminates him. Ken Shamrock and these other American shoot wrestlers had experience already through cross training and competed when very few people in MMA knew what the fuck they were doing (or competed in worked shoots for the most part). Also, especially in the case of Shamrock, they were on every PED under the sun when that was acceptable.

So for Punk to come in with zero experience in a completely different era of MMA, you basically have to look at it from the perspective of normal people who jump in on the same level. It's more prevalent in boxing in Mexico where fighters come in with minimal amateur experience and get thrown to the wolves, facing future world champs in like their fifth or sixth pro bout. Also, it's very prevalent in female MMA where women get in because their boyfriend, significant other, or kid was training jiu-jitsu or something. There are instances in the UFC on the male side, but all three share the same connection. A vast majority of them have have barely above .500 records or double digit losses. In boxing, some turn it around (especially a lot of the fighters at or around 126lbs.) just because they were able to adapt and the sheer toughness and workrate gets them to that point. When they get paid more, they are able to hire better trainers and hire nutritionists and strength coaches. In MMA, with the talent level increasing in different international markets as well, they get to a certain point before they settle there. Every UFC champion and immediate contender has a background in some discipline even if they were never world class. The only exception is Bethe Correia, and she's clearly an outlier. To find someone else like that, you would have to go back to another era of MMA. In addition to the change in eras, because he isn't juiced up like the dudes in the past (or present based on what has went on in Bellator and pending Lesnar's current situation), Punk is competing at 170 pounds. At least back then, those guys fighting at heavyweight had the chance to fight other palookas to hide their shortcomings in athleticism and skill. Punk's giant disadvantage is that he is former pro wrestler with no background to speak of fighting in one of the most talent rich divisions against someone who might soon be a prospect. That is the least desirable position as a pro wrestler to be in unless you count like old Doctor Death Steve Williams fighting to pay for his cancer treatment. 

Maybe the closest approximation is Sakuraba, who competed at 205 when it started to really take off. However, Sakuraba was heading out of his prime and was on the downswing once he started taking those absurd beatings. Sakuraba though started as a shoot wrestler (w/ an amateur wrestling background) back when they were considered the toughest guys around. With Japanese MMA being in bad shape now and knowing what a real fight looks like with real skilled fighters, the type of wrestler has been made obsolete outside of a certain capacity in pro wrestling occupied by fewer and fewer people every new generation. Sakuraba was able to go in there with legit top fighters and either look incredibly proficient or even beat them. There is no way in hell a random pro wrestler is going to come in and do what Sakuraba did then, especially below heavyweight. If someone like the Miz had to fight Jimi Manuwa or Nikita Krylov, he is going to get his face blown off in a jiffy. He can train for an entire year at the best camp in the world and that's still going to happen. For Punk to try to do something like that, I am only giving him a pass because that's an incredibly ballsy thing to do considering all the conditions. 

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23 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

 

I remember watching this when it made the rounds. Fucking nasty.

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