SECRET SANTO 2023~!

[Matt D]

On 1/3/2024 at 3:53 PM, Curt McGirt said:

Okay Matt, here is one I've wanted you to watch since I saw it, because I think you will either cringe, laugh, maybe both at the same time... or possibly LIKE it? I don't want it to feel like one of the "Matt is gonna hate it" challenges but it could be that. FWIW I thought it was good, but in a way waaaaay beyond what I typically consider "good". 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5VcdTAvfL4&ab_channel=TNAWrestling

• There's probably no guy in wrestling I dislike more in-ring than Bailey. I'm not even sure it's a rational thing. If you turned him heel and paired him with Alex Abrahantes, you'd be able to get absolutely amazing heat. Amazing. He's just got such a punchable face. It's just everything. Somehow I can buy Kenny Omega's FFVII bullshit more than Bailey's and I barely buy Omega's.
• I disliked this crowd way more than I dislike Bailey though. They spent most of the match chanting and singing in a manner that wasn't engaged in the match at all. This was during the parts where I actually thought Ospreay and Bailey were doing a good job. The fans just wanted to chant. They just wanted to see big memorable spots and be part of a dream match. When they're taking each other's heads off, you really don't want a Both These Guys chant.
• The bits I liked most especially were how Ospreay kept going back for the Os-cutter and how Bailey had an answer for it again and again until Ospreay hit it on the apron. That let Ospreay take over until Bailey toughed it out and started firing back in the middle of the ring. That was a pretty solid grounded story for about 1/3rd of the match. Everything else was just fireworks.
• In a bubble, there were a number of good individual spots and a lot of very good selling in the moment. I will say this: they sold much more in the first half than they did in the second and the hits they were taking in the second half were much bigger.
• But then the fans were just being goofs all through the actual selling and they were responding big for the no selling (listen to that pop for the Styles Clash set up, for instance) so, what are you even going to do. There was a certain expectation for these two in this setting and even in trying to overcome it in a way that was, in my mind, correct, they just got swept under. In that case, they shouldn't have leaned into an animosity that wasn't going to get over and wasn't going to be bought into by the crowd and wasn't actually going to go far enough in any one direction to matter. They probably should have wrestled an even stupider/less grounded match. So much so that Curt wouldn't have given it to me.
• That said, I think better wrestlers could still pull it off.
• I don't know, TNALOL?

Edited January 5 by Matt D

[Curt McGirt]

JAVIER "MONARCA" CRUZ VS. CICLON RAMIREZ - HAIR VS. HAIR

SECRET SANTO: THE FINAL CHAPTER. (Well, for now. Like the Friday the 13th series I hope these go on forever.) This one is a seriously play-by-play review so let's call it Pete- or Ray-style. Enjoy.

I'm well familiar with Javier from the '80s Lucha set. Ramirez apparently didn't have any matches after a short search, and I can't recall any CMLL from the '90s I've seen him in, so this is a fresh match. One thing I'd like to note immediately is that if Monarca doesn't have padding under the studs on that glove, punching anybody with that shit will HURT. I had a studded glove once and tried it (on an inanimate object, of course) and it was not pleasant. I'm unsure how anyone uses a knuckle-duster or brass knucks and doesn't just shatter their fingers in the process, but someone with a better understanding of physics and anatomy can probably explain that to me. ANYWAY. 

Una Caida! We start with Ciclon getting jumped and Cruz going after him. This includes the oft-used "guy hanging off the apron gets his face bashed into the boards covering the bottom of the ring" to which I said out loud, "Clasico~!" Ciclon is bleeding from up by his temple in moments and it taking his time in the selling and beating blowing a ton of air trying to get the juice to pump. He hits a quebradora into a PLANCHA ENORME on Cruz that smashes him way back into the crowd and I'm having nostalgic flashbacks to the '80s set and remembering all those hours laying there drinking with a broken arm eating this shit up. Spinning Atlantida and we have our first fall! 

Segunda Caida! Huge missed senton to start. That... all that happens, because Cruz immediately grabs the second fall with a big missile dropkick and a standing senton. 

Tercera Caida! Ciclon smashes Javier's head into chairs and the post so he takes an opportunity to drag cold steel against warm flesh, immediately gaining highly better results than Ciclon at same. Ciclon tosses Javier out and hits a Mortal, which I guess means an over-the-top rope tope, that takes him completely vertical as he blasts into Cruz. Cruz is COVERED in blood now. Ciclon tries a Joe-esque walk away from a dive so Monarca just smashes him with a missile dropkick from the apron. Then Ciclon tries stretching him with various camel clutches and tapatias and Atlantidas but Cruz keeps slipping out cuz he's so bloody; finally Ciclon just pushes him off the top rope when he goes for something and he falls straight into the cameraman! "Ah-hahaha, wipe-out!" Corner plancha! Blood on the camera lens! Another plancha crushing Cruz against an empty row of chairs! But! He gets in the ring, grabs Ciclon from behind from a powerbomb-position flip over his head by Ciclon's chin and starts spinning him around just hanging in the air by his neck which is a finish no matter what you call it, and there you go. Cruz is jumping for joy and Ramirez is checking to make sure his vertebrae haven't disconnected. Surprisingly we get very little hair loss shown. Cruz refuses a handshake before he gets his pound of flesh, so to speak, so the electric razor takes a long hunk and Ramirez sportingly raises his arm with hair in hand before the replays start to roll. 

Very high-impact match that hits all the notes you expect from a hair match, including mid-size una, short segunda and long tercera. And the barber has the shiny scissors print on his fucking jacket so it gets the full Hair Match Star. I would have preferred a bit of shit-talking and maybe some slaps before the scalping began but Ciclon Ramirez is apparently a Man of Honour so we can excuse that. ****, Curt Bob says Check It Out. 

[Curt McGirt]

God, I forgot how irritating those fans were in the TNA match. I think I was too entertained by how it seemed like nothing but a collection of the biggest, dumbest, wildest spots and bombs they could produce to keep the reaction from making me throw something at the screen. If I watched it again (and I won't) I would probably want to do that. It amazes me that you noticed ANY storyline in that sucker which you definitely deserve props for. And yes, he definitely needs to turn Karate Kid Heel with a sneering manager in a gi telling him to sweep the leg, just to piss all those fuckin idiots off. 

Sorry about the lateness Headcheese, it wasn't really my problems, it was just the tab with the match sitting there and sitting there staring at me which has the effect of making me delay, delay, delay sometimes. 

[Curt McGirt]

That Osaka Pro match was fun. I'll leave further comments to Gordi but just the ability to wrestle a full match (though they did have a cut for some reason) in a what, 8-by-8 foot space? surrounded by people with no barrier on nothing but gym mats is super impressive. 

[Zimbra]

40 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

God, I forgot how irritating those fans were in the TNA match. I think I was too entertained by how it seemed like nothing but a collection of the biggest, dumbest, wildest spots and bombs they could produce to keep the reaction from making me throw something at the screen. If I watched it again (and I won't) I would probably want to do that. It amazes me that you noticed ANY storyline in that sucker which you definitely deserve props for. And yes, he definitely needs to turn Karate Kid Heel with a sneering manager in a gi telling him to sweep the leg, just to piss all those fuckin idiots off. 

Sorry about the lateness Headcheese, it wasn't really my problems, it was just the tab with the match sitting there and sitting there staring at me which has the effect of making me delay, delay, delay sometimes. 

I dunno, I really like the "Protagonist in a 90s straight to video martial movie" thing he has going on now, if only because of his complete commitment to the bit.

[Matt D]

Spoiler

PLUS the guy on the right

Equals the best most punchable heel act in the business waiting to happen.

I'm sticking to my guns.

[Zimbra]

You know what?  I see the vision.

[John E. Dynamite]

Mike Bailey's shoot name is Emile Charles Baillargeon-Laberge. For some reason I find it adds depth to his character when I am cognizant of his overwhelming French Canadian-ness 

[Curt McGirt]

"I AM EMILE CHARLES BAILLARGEON-LABERGE, ALSO KNOWN AS SPEEDBALL. MIKE. BAILEY. AND I AM YOUUUUUUR CHAMPION!" 

Come on now. It's all so clear. 

[AxB]

On 1/3/2024 at 11:38 PM, Zimbra said:

OK, see if this works.

Masao Orihara vs Shinjiro Ohtani 5/25/99 in a "Who can be a bigger dickhead?" match.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1IEGW5ZdQFh9SsfiOJqO4y3AxkLS82bF9/view?usp=sharing

99 Ohtani, so he didn't have long left in NJPW (not that he knew that at the time). Back inthe day, I loved what dicks he and Kanemoto were... like the mid-90s junior division had become very sportsmanlike and respectful, Liger was the booker and top star and everyone wanted to shake him hand. But then Kanemoto flopped as Tiger Mask, went back to Young Boy Black Trunks, and started being an obnoxious prick, and Ohtani said "Well, that looks fun, I'll do it too". Also Tatsuhito Takaiwa was there. He did strength moves. Anyway, Kanemoto turned out to be a complete arse in real life as well, and Ohtani started putting a bit of red in his gear and got a glittery jacket and kind of moved away from being a Young Punk (because time doesn't stop, and if you age out of being a Young Punk, you turn into an Old Punk). Speaking of Ageing Punks, here is Masao Orihara!

So Ohtani is just trying to get in the ring and maybe get introduced, but before he can even get a sniff of the ring he's been hit with a Baseball Slide and an Orihara Orihara Moonsault. And Orihara backflips off the top into the ring to celebrate his pre-match attack, like he was Teddy Hart selling that he just lost a match or something. And from there, it's pure aggro on both sides.

Like, obviously it's Heel vs Heel, and they're really leaning into the "No Honour Among Theives" idea by using all of the dirty tricks on one another. You would think that Ohtani might be tempted to play face in the match because he's an NJPW guy and they're in an NJPW ring, but Nope. The ref appears to have decided right away that if he tries to instil law and order on these two chaotic marauders, he'll be making himself the story of the match, so instead he's hands off, "I'm just here to make counts", cheat as much as you want. And they both want to cheat a lot, so that works.

Orihara goes for a Snapmare, Ohtani blocks it, so he hits a Stunner from that position instead. Which considering that a Snapmare is a low grade move by the late 90s, and a Stunner was a deadly finish at that time, seems odd. But then the Snapmare was always used to set up the big kick to the back, and NJPW isn't the WWF (or even AJPW, where the Ace Crusher was a big deal). I think Kojima was using it to weaken the jaw for his big Lariat maybe? Yeah, anyway. It gets two. Orihara does the Ohtani bootscrapes in the corner, because Ohtani already did them to him and it's such a great "Look at what a prick I am" move. Ohtani's always looked the best though, he'd go hip deep on those things.

Ohtani blocks another Snapmare, hits one of his own, and applies the rear chinlock. Which isn't a big kick to the back, but they'd done an awful lot of moves in the first 3 minutes, and you need to vary the pace. Then he decides, actually, that's not hurting his face enough, so he smashes Orihara into the turnbuckle and does a bunch of facewashes with his forearm. A little back and forth, and then Orihara escalates the violence by taking it outside, irish whipping Ohtani to the guard rail, smashing him with a couple chairshots to the back and chest, and... stealing a water bottle from the commentary table and pouring it over him. Because that's humiliating, and humiliation causes psychological damage, and all damage ultimately adds up*.

Ohtani throws the chair into the ring, Orihara sits in it to taunt him, Ohtani angrily rushes in with a boot and face smashes him into the chair, seeing as it was already set up just nice for that. And now Orihara is begging off, as we've reached the section of the match where the Bully realises that he doesn't actually like fighting. He likes beating people up, he loves that, but when they fight back, that's not enjoyable at all. So he cheats to get back on offence, sets up a Piledriver and does the "face 4 sides, who can cheer loudest" thing. That gets 2. Ohtani gets right back in control to set up his Springboard Dropkick, but hat misses and Orihara hits La Majistral for another 2. Which he disputes with the referee... although that only costs him temporarily, as Ohtani fails to capitalise on the distraction and winds up eating a Spider German and a Moonsault, for another 2.

Ohtani reverse a Powerbomb into a Rana, but eats a Clothesline to the back of the head as soon as he gets up. Orihara goes back to the Moonsault well, but takes a couple of knees to the midsection because Ohtani knew it was coming this time. Springboard Dropkick and a Ligerbomb by Ohtani gets 2, and he seemed to recover from his accumulated damage very quickly there. Dragon Suplex with a bridge gets 3, and Orihara's nose is all busted and bloody from something in there.

9 and a half minutes, and it was action packed as all hell. The "Who can be a bigger dickhead?" question was one that was constantly asked throughout, with both men constantly one-upping each other. It was really well balanced in terms of... they were doing very high end spots for the late 90s, but they were also telling a story, and having it escalate to a climax, rather than just metaphorically flooring the accelerator and facing until they crashed. Yeah, this was really good.

 

* I think that's an actual mechanic in Fire Pro, you have like Physical hit points and Spiritual ones, and doing enough spirit-breaking moves makes your opponent want to give up just as much as doing body-breaking moves does.

[Casey]

On 12/27/2023 at 6:44 PM, Zimbra said:

Awesome!  I thought I had seen this, but I watched the other Abby/Robinson match.

Keeping with the theme of random matchups skip to about 1:15:30 here for Masashi Aoyagi vs Bob Backlund.  I deeply apologize that the angle of the handheld obscures Aoyagi's pre-match karate demonstration.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzkt8PcgTu8

The fuck is this? A joint card or just random puroresu guys and gals on the Japan tour? Tenryu and Savage teaming up, HUH??

I can safely say I’ve never seen a match from Backlund or Aoyagi so this should be interesting. Karate versus (Amateur) Wrestling! Is this secretly a UFC match?

This is a weird match. I mean, for WWF in 1994 anyway. I wonder if this is what Japanese fans wanted when they bought tickets to a WWF tour? It’s not BAD, but it’s definitely weird for the time period, especially considering that Taker/Yokozuna is after this and a few matches before it was a Doink the Clown match.

Backlund gets some nice pops for powering out of some of Aoyagi’s stuff, but man… what a weird match. And it just abruptly ends, too. Backlund pretty much controls the entire match and then Aoyagi wins with a roll-up. Whaaaaat??

So weird, so interesting. Kind of curious about Alundra/Hasegawa actually…

——

@The Natural

Ah, so we meet again apparently! Uhhhh, just give me some more WWF main events (no Bret ;))

I’ll give you something easy:

[Curt McGirt]

Just looked at Abrahantes again and facially, he looks like Ken Shamrock. Give him those sideburns/whatever that facial hair was that Shammy had for awhile and it would be molten gold. 

[Curt McGirt]

15 hours ago, AxB said:

Also Tatsuhito Takaiwa was there. He did strength moves, sold absolutely nothing, unfairly shot on people and was an unprofessional piece of shit. 

FTFY. I guess I have a hard-on for the guy, but... yeah, fuck him, still. That guy sucks. 

13 hours ago, Casey said:

Karate versus (Amateur) Wrestling! Is this secretly a UFC match?

Inoki started these things, called Different Style Fights, back when he faced off against Muhammad Ali in the '70s. Big part of New Japan for years off and on, and in Japanese indies (never in Baba's All Japan which was strictly 100% pro). They developed eventually into shoot style wrestling (UWF, RINGS, BattlARTS) and after that into literal shoots: UFC, Pancrase, PRIDE, etc. 

Tenryu and Savage had a great match at the big WWF/AJPW/NJPW Wrestling Summit in 1990 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPWmYmRPymY&ab_channel=AllanBlackstock), thus why they later teamed up. I'm interested if this WWF card was a joint promotional deal. Anybody? 

[Matt D]

34 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

Just looked at Abrahantes again and facially, he looks like Ken Shamrock. Give him those sideburns/whatever that facial hair was that Shammy had for awhile and it would be molten gold. 

You only realize what a heel he is when you factor in his QVC background and love of The Secret. But yeah.  

[Curt McGirt]

Oh MY. Ohtani vs. Orihara was beautiful. No disrespect to any of the matches I've got from anyone so far on this go-round but that might've been the most entertaining I've seen. Something that AxB didn't mention is that Orihara had a trend in his career of extremely shitty haircuts. If you watch his BattARTS run, you can actually see them evolving -- or devolving, as it were -- into differently crappy and ridiculous styles. This one, the BRAIDED AND DYED BLONDE LONG-ASS MOHAWK, might just be the pinnacle. It's like the extensions that Wattie from the Exploited wore when he started losing his hair, only real, and man does that amp up the sleaze on his character. This one had me from Ohtani's backward foule that had Orihara literally flop straight up in the air from the impact. So, so assholish and fun. 

[Curt McGirt]

1 minute ago, Curt McGirt said:

It's like the extensions that Wattie from the Exploited wore when he started losing his hair

Like this bullshit https://cdn.imago-images.de/bild/st/0050493697/m.jpg I'm not sure if he actually started losing his hair because he got the mohawk back, but I'd suspected it was fakery when I first saw it. 

[Casey]

10 hours ago, Curt McGirt said:

I'm interested if this WWF card was a joint promotional deal. Anybody? 

Savage/Tenryu also had a singles match on the last night of this tour. Tenryu also did a match against Yokozuna and teamed with Undertaker.

Alundra faces Bull twice, and Kyoko Inoue & Hasegawa.

Aoyagi faces Bigelow & Owen Hart (!!)

and this is so random: Nobukazu Hirai faces Doink on Night 1, Samu on Night 2, in a Rumble on Night 3 and teams with Waltman on Night 4 against the Smoking Gunns.

What a weird as fuck tour.

This would have to be some sort of WAR/WWF cross promotion card, right? WAR was already working with most of the promotions not named All Japan or New Japan at the time, which would explain people like Kyoko & Hasegawa popping up (before their only WWF appearance the next year).

Edited January 7 by Casey

[Curt McGirt]

Oh you just know they let Tenryu book that shit.

[onelegbrynn]

I still need to watch the match that John E. Dynamite (tagging thing won't work ... grr) assigned me last week. Haven't been in the mood to watch much wrestling lately due to the situation going on with my foot and ankle currently.

Edited January 8 by brynn9292

[Matt D]

As we did not draw this time around, I am willing to discuss a scenario where once (1x) a month (starting next month) @Casey and I exchange a match, primarily in good faith, in as I will mostly pull from the top 10s of DVDVR 80s sets, but on the understanding that yes, I will primarily give him 80s matches and that he should act in similar relative good faith.

Independent of this, here's the C+A for Aoyagi. People should at least watch the Kurisu matches. 

https://segundacaida.blogspot.com/2013/03/complete-and-accurate-masaji-aoyagi.html

[Casey]

1 hour ago, Matt D said:

As we did not draw this time around, I am willing to discuss a scenario where once (1x) a month (starting next month) @Casey and I exchange a match, primarily in good faith, in as I will mostly pull from the top 10s of DVDVR 80s sets, but on the understanding that yes, I will primarily give him 80s matches and that he should act in similar relative good faith.

Independent of this, here's the C+A for Aoyagi. People should at least watch the Kurisu matches. 

https://segundacaida.blogspot.com/2013/03/complete-and-accurate-masaji-aoyagi.html

I like this, and I’ll agree to it.

But, if you’re making me watch an era I don’t care all that much for but am willing to explore… you have to do the same, and let me know what it is. I’ll act in good faith, I promise. No more Rollins matches

[Matt D]

26 minutes ago, Casey said:

I like this, and I’ll agree to it.

But, if you’re making me watch an era I don’t care all that much for but am willing to explore… you have to do the same, and let me know what it is. I’ll act in good faith, I promise. No more Rollins matches

PWG? Post-Danielson ROH? STARDOM? What’s your poison?

[Casey]

40 minutes ago, Matt D said:

PWG? Post-Danielson ROH? STARDOM? What’s your poison?

Oh I’d love for you to do PWG, but that’s extremely hard to find on your normal video sites like YouTube or Dailymotion. ROH in 2010 and onwards would probably fill that void nicely. Rollins is champion around this time, however

If you have Honor Club that would work even better, but if not that’s okay too. I can work with that.

Edited January 8 by Casey

[The Natural]

On 12/30/2023 at 6:08 AM, Sammo~! said:

I got one for you. Fun tag match, I think you like one of the guys in it. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZIH3KMi6ss

 

On 1/2/2024 at 11:12 AM, The Natural said:

Apologies for the delay. Thank you for a Bryan Danielson match I haven't seen. Here's one for you as two days time Danielson will have his first NJPW match in 20 years so to mark it:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3hCoMvRtJhc&pp=ygUZYnJ5YW4gZGFuaWVsc29uIGN1cnJ5IG1hbg%3D%3D

I tend to give people two choices and here's the second only just recently added to YouTube:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lxHscUgchQ0&pp=ygUUYnJldCBoYXJ0IGZ1bGwgbWF0Y2g%3D

Cheers!

Bryan Danielson & Taiji Ishimori vs Naomichi Marufuji & Atsushi Aoki.

As noted a new Bryan Danielson match to me. Interesting seeing someone who you love change in some ways and not in others. Danielson doing a Darce choke and a diving European Uppercut as examples of the former, the latter how technically proficient he continues to be. Someone should use the Darce choke as a wrestling finisher. The brief exchanges between Danielson and Naomichi Marufuji reminded me of their underrated ROH Final Battle 2005 match and made me bob on cagematch to find they had two other singles matches in ROH which I weren't aware of. Danielson taps Aoki out with the Cattle Mutilation. Cheers for this, matey. I enjoyed this.

Edited January 9 by The Natural

[The Natural]

On 1/6/2024 at 2:59 AM, Casey said:

——

@The Natural

Ah, so we meet again apparently! Uhhhh, just give me some more WWF main events (no Bret ;))

I’ll give you something easy:

Indeed, we meet again. Thanks for my match. Which time period of WWF main events are you after and you have Peacock right if I can't find them on YouTube? Cheers.