WWE Network Conversation

[Cobra Commander]

extra Survivor Series 87 note:

Jesse had some real enthusiasm putting over the action in the Women's elimination match. 1980s male wrestling commentators can be what they are when it comes to commentating women's action but it makes me wonder if we missed out by Jesse never getting to the point in his career where he commentated for GLOW or some fed of that type. He could probably fit his commentary style into that universe.

Unless Jesse was completely unmotivated at the time, he probably would have done a lot better at putting over Aja Kong than someone like Jerry Lawler did.

Now, the suggestion he had about a women's wrestler shaving their head to avoid hair pulls. Well, the style changed enough that having a women's wrestler shave her hair or wear a mask to avoid hair moves isn't necessarily a helpful 'trick' anymore

And one extra World Class note: the Sunshine/Precious fight was what every ECW catfight aspired to be but wasn't as Joey Styles screamed at a high pitch.

The firing of Sunshine on YouTube, if you haven't seen it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLVLV7F8rr4

Edited November 10, 2023 by Cobra Commander

[Cobra Commander]

Time to check out another World Class episode

World Class Championship Wrestling (11/19/1983)

Our main event, Chris Adams and Johnny Mantell team up to face Jimmy Garvin and Buddy Roberts. But first, an encore of David Von Erich vs Kamala.

Our encore of David vs Kamala starts with David applying the Claw to Kamala until the towel was thrown in by Friday. Akbar whips Friday in response to Friday throwing in the towel. David confronts Akbar, turns his back and gets whipped. Then Kamala attacks David until Kerry comes in to discus punch Kamala to the floor. Looks like a fun night in Fort Worth. Akbar and Mike Von Erich fight on the floor.

Bill Mercer reminds us that cage matches are dangerous. Then we see Kerry Von Erich standing next to the cage explaining how he's beating Michael Hayes in the cage to send him back to Georgia. Michael Hayes has some comments next to the cage in an Atlanta Braves hat (and shirtless). Hayes is sick of the Von Erichs and Texas but he's not leaving unless he wants to.

Match 1: Tonga John (from Samoa) vs Jose Lothario. Tonga John/Barbarian is barefoot at this time in his career. Extended armbars from Lothario after armdrags. Barb takes over and his offense is very green-looking. Jose starts hitting his awesome-looking punches and Barb staggers around, falling after the 4th punch. Barb misses a running headbutt into the corner, Jose punches Barb some more, slams him, and Jose Lothario gets the pin with a buttdrop off the top rope. Barbarian seemed to have offense that looked like he didn't really wanna hit his opponent at this time in his career.

Match 2: Super Destroyer #1 vs Iceman King Parsons. A reminder that Iceman is the nickname and the in-ring name is King Parsons if you need such a reminder. Guessing they didn't put Iceman King Parsons in The Iron Claw but we'll have to see in December. Mercer welcomes the wrestling fans of Chicago and Minneapolis to some non-AWA wrestling. Super D yelling "see that?" as he hits legal palm strikes to the face, followed by punching Iceman out of view of the ref. Bill Irwin is almost too large to be leapfrogging over Iceman safely. Mercer mentioning the modernistic green stars on the Super D's masks. Michael Hayes is releasing his own "musical" according to Bill Mercer before clarifying that it'll be a record. I'm currently thinking about a Freebirds/Von Erichs musical to build on the upcoming success of The Iron Claw. People might not have noticed that Iceman King Parsons throws some good chops. Iceman hits the Buttbutt but the Super Ds switch behind the ref's back. The other Super D rolls up Iceman for the win. Iceman is perplexed and disappointed over what happened.

Before we get to our main event, Bill Mercer wants to know what we should call "Sunshine #2". Jimmy Garvin declares that Precious is the real Sunshine and that the other Sunshine isn't coming back.

Match 3: Johnny Mantell and Chris Adams vs Buddy Roberts and Gorgeous Jimmy Garvin. The heel team is the "stock is soaring in my eyes once I started watching these episodes of World Class" team. Gotta love the seconds getting their own chair to sit in around here. It opens the door to there being a reason for a steel chair to be around ringside too. The fans want Sunshine and Precious keeps trying to make that chant about her. It takes a few minutes for Roberts to tag in Garvin. Then during the second Roberts time in the ring, we get some fun exchanges with Buddy Roberts and Chris Adams. Two fans have pictures of Sunshine as a visual aid to the chant. Jimmy Garvin gets back in there and decides to counter the "We Want Sunshine" chant by yelling "Shut Up". Johnny Mantell is in some peril for awhile. Mantell hits a spinning double headknock before making the tag to Chris Adams who is a house of fire on Jimmy Garvin. Buddy Roberts eats a superkick despite his head gear. The Original Sunshine runs in to go after Precious and rips off her jacket. The match ends as a result while the crowd pops hard for their hero Sunshine. Sunshine sprays Jimmy Garvin and Chris Adams hits a superkick and Sunshine is led away from the ring before she could scratch Jimmy Garvin's eyes out.

Chris Adams joins Bill Mercer in an emptied Sportatorium. Sunshine has sent Jimmy Garvin's tapes and medical history to Chris Adams. No word on if Gorgeous Jimmy testified to Congress in favor of HIPAA. David Manning gets a ringside interview too because we got some time to fill out here. And that's our show for the week.

Someone who did the work for World Class episode descriptions really thought the people needed to know which cards Jose Lothario was on, and that person is great because it means you get to find out which shows could have some great punches thrown in them (aside from the squashes where I'm guessing less awesome punches get thrown).

[Curt McGirt]

On 11/1/2023 at 3:40 PM, Cobra Commander said:

It would be neat if the DVDs on the network which had bonus matches had a way to watch the bonus matches but i'm not holding out for that happening.

There's an Easter Egg on one of the ECW DVDs of the Public Enemy "training" Mikey to fight the Sandman and it consists of hanging a sixer in a tree and having him climb the ladder over and over while Johnny chugs the beers. It's really fucking funny and you can't find it online anywhere.

EDIT: Nevermind. Of course I found it on the first try. Jeeeeeeez

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOWtXooz43E&ab_channel=NostalgiaMania-Wrestling

Edited November 11, 2023 by Curt McGirt

[zendragon]

On 11/8/2023 at 10:26 PM, Cobra Commander said:

 

Match 3: Hayes and Gordy vs Kerry and Kevin in a Country Whippin Match. The competitors will get leather straps which means it's time to pop the crowd as the faces strap the heels. David Manning gets a mic to try and restore some order here in this match where the competitors are supposed to hit each other with straps and occasionally wrestle. Bill Mercer welcomes Chicago and Minneapolis to World Class Wrestling as we see scenes of the competitors hitting each other on the back with straps. A hot tag to a double-strapped Kerry! The match ends with a DQ because in a match with endless strapping, it's still a DQ to toss someone over the top rope, there are rules here, this isn't Nam. This was more fun than most strap matches which usually end up going to the same spots and there's not many ways for a "touch all four corners" strap match to end. So a match where people just recklessly hit each other with belts is a lot more fun and wild than normal strap matches. Especially since the Von Erichs always worked in a way where they were hitting dudes had without having belts. Let's give these people that hate each other the means to inflict damage on each other is a solid premise for a stip match. This was 1983, they probably still let school principals hit kids with belts in elementary school in Texas. So here's a match where the hottest feud in the territory will have some strapation dudes. Bullshit finish, but it's a TV match that isn't from Reunion or a stadium, so.

 

Say what you will but The man in the Pink Suit with matching Fanny pack was a worthy fucking adversary not some camel jocky who couldn't find reverse on a Russian tank!

Scarlett Bordeaux on X: "A rainbow of Michael Hayes @WWE #WWESmackdown https://t.co/Tu5fBGZUYN" / X (twitter.com)

[Cobra Commander]

I'm intending to watch some Starrcades before Thanksgiving (1983 and 1987) but since I've been watching the TV leading into Starrcade 1987 and there's one week left. Let's see if anything happens during...

World Championship Wrestling (11/21/1987)

David Crockett is on assignment this week so they're trusting Tony to host this alone.

Dusty takes the mic first to talk about his US title match that he says he's gonna win.

Match 1: The New Breed vs David Isley and Terry Jones. You know you're pretty low ion the totem pole of job guys if you're behind forced onto your back by locking knuckles with one of Chris Champion's hands. The Bunkhouse Stampede talk and how Dusty always wins the Bunkhouse Stampede makes me think that MJF's Dynamite Ring is the unintentional successor to the Bunkhouse Stampede. Sean Royal gets to use the Scorpion. Maybe they tell non-Sting wrestlers to stop using the Scorpion one day, especially . New Breed wins with a double team where Sean Royal lifts Terry Jones and Chris Champion hits him in the face with his crotch.
New Breed gets a promo about what they're gonna do to the Sheepherders on Starrcade Night (far away from Chicago). Man, of all the promo matchups, the guys from New Zealand are actually more coherent than the New Breed. The time is right for somebody to use the phrase "2002 Style" to describe their wrestling in 2023.

JJ and Lex Luger are here. Lex Luger looks cool in his "it's early in the morning" shades. He's also in a jacket for the occasion looking like someone who got inspired by Top Gun. Both Dusty and Lex are sick and tired of talking about their match.

Match 2: Mike Rotundo vs Tommy Angel. They wrestle for a few minutes and Mike Rotundo wins with the Airplane Spin. I guess Cesaro's Giant Swing spot means nobody can bring back the Airplane Spin under the premise of spinning the guy around a bunch before dropping him.

IT'S TIME FOR THE FINAL STARRCADE CONTROL CENTER UNLESS THEY DO ONE NEXT WEEK POST-STARRCADE (And they might!). I'm gonna hear the Starrcade instrumental theme in my head randomly for years. 100 Closed Circuit Locations for this big boy. Magnum TA joins Tony today. Let's take a look at a clip of Magnum vs Tully from Starrcade 85! Tony gets Starrcade predictions from TA. TA doesn't just predict that all the babyfaces will win. The Starrcade theme sounds like it could be the metal instrumental for the Chicky Starr Sports Shop opening.

Match 3: Sting vs Cougar Jay. One of these wrestlers is about to get a megapush. As a babyface, Sting throws his jobguy to the floor, and then goes out and rolls him back into the ring. Lots of "ram Cougar Jay's face into things" offense from Sting. Sting wins with the Stinger Splash. So they have part of the formula down early.
Sting gets a ringside interview postmatch. Sting has some words for Eddie Gilbert. The crowd is into this.

Barry Windham has some comments about Larry Zbyszko.

Match 4: Kevin Sullivan vs Alan Martin. Usual Sullivan squash. A hard shot is thrown. Sullivan does leave his feet to throttle the guy but he's not gonna fall down for a suplex. Chest rake that looked oddly sensual (raking up on the front of his chest). Sullivan wins with a double stomp. Man, these Kevin Sullivan squashes are amazing for how little he actually does in the process of winning a match.

Match 5: Steve "Dr. Death" Williams vs Thunderfoot #2. Dr. Death wins in a few minutes with the Oklahoma Stampede.
Dr. Death postmatch interview at the podium. His match with Barry Windham will be a wrestling match, not a fight. He also references the Oklahoma/Nebraska game (not the result because this show was taped a few days ago)

Ricky Santana gets interview time to talk about everybody else's Starrcade matches. He also speaks some Spanish.

Match 6: Rick Steiner vs Ricky Nelson. Rick Steiner and Dr. Death have similar facial hair right now. Rick drops Nelson on his head with a German. Rick Steiner wins with a belly to belly off the ropes. No Steinerline, much to the benefit of Ricky Nelson's brain health.

Kevin Sullivan is mad at Ricky Santana for dismissing Ric Flair. Kevin Sullivan is a swing voter at this time simultaneously praising Ric Flair and Dusty Rhodes in the same promo. Kevin Sullivan also has positive comments about Dr. Death Steve William. Well, he has a few years of experience with feuding with the Windham family in Florida, the land that is not on this WWE Network.

LET'S GO TO COLLEGE FOOTBALL SCOREBOARD WITH CRAIG SAGER.

The big games for November 21st, 1987 were.. #9 LSU beats Tulane, #3 Miami beats Toledo, #2 Oklahoma beats #1 Nebraska, Penn State beats #7 Notre Dame, #12 South Carolina beats #8 Clemson, USC beats #5 UCLA, #6 Syracuse beats West Virginia. Huge day for top teams to lose games.

Jim Cornette opens the Peacock commercial-free second hour of hour show.

Match 7: Midnight Express vs Rex King and Max McGyver. Jim Cornette hyping that his team is in the WarGames and a Scaffold Match on back to back days. He also talks up wanting to hurt the Rock'n'Rolls before Starrcade. "To lose a scaffold match is bad news" says the manager who has never had his knee fixed after a scaffold match. Midnights win with the Rocket Launcher. I saw a clip of Big Bubba being launched for a Rocket Launcher and it looks like it would kill somebody to have Bubba launched onto you.
Jim Cornette gets his traditional postmatch promo to finish up any points not made by his commentary during the match. Knowing what we know now, the "we're welling to throw someone off a scaffold" promos ring a little differently from Jim.

Ric Flair joins the show. He advises us to buy THE DANGER ZONE video cassette. Magnum TA and Missy Hyatt host this tape. THERE'S A DANGER ZONE CALENDAR TOO. We got Starrcade in a few days and Ric Flair wants us to buy a tape which comes with a calendar. Send $24.95 plus $5 to Box 7500 Atlanta. The perfect gift for everybody. The Swimsuit Calendar is not available in stores. Only one calendar per tape. Somebody has to have bought that calendar.

Okay now now that we got that out of the way. Do these Horsemen superfans have jobs because they're on every one of these episodes. I'm guessing one of these people is either Scott Hudson or someone who knew Scott Hudson in the 80s. Ric Flair has words for Magnum TA and Ricky Santana this week. Ron Garvin has Ric Flair's Gold Belt. Also Ric Flair gets a plug in for the Nassau show. They're dedicated to getting something out of being in Long Island just before Starrcade.

Match 8: The Road Warriors vs Dale Lapeyrouse and Curtis Thompson. Roadies slide into the ring. Animal Shoulderblock. Press Slam. Roadies tag. Slam. Job guys tag out. Hawk hits his dropkick. Fist Drop.Tag to Animal. Double team move that confuses Tony. Road Warriors get the pin. The final move was Hawk and Animal clotheslining the job guy at the same time from the front and back. It didn't stick as a move.
Road Warriors promo. Hawk says they don't fear evil because they are the evil. "Promoters sometime pay big booty for people to do stupid things". Well, I'd say! Paul Ellering has a Minnesota Twins sweatshirt.

Match 9: Larry Zbyszko vs Larry Stephens. Two Larrys with Mullets! Larry Zbyszko wins with a neckbreaker that Larry Stephens might not have been ready to take.

Larry Z and Baby Doll join Tony at ringside. Larry is mad about Magnum TA's comments about his Starrcade match. Baby Doll knows things about Dusty. Larry has seen a superstar for 13 years.

Match 10: The Jive Tones vs El Negro and B.T. Washington. Jive Tones with some Fabulous Ones outfits out there. Nice front dropkick from Whatley. BT Washington is not prepared to take an Irish Whip. Washington just falls down immediately after irish whips. Jive Tones win with the Double Russian Legsweep that still doesn't look like one of the two guys is doing anything to contribute.
The Jive Tones are gonna be at Starrcade. Shaska has words for Ron Simmons. "Ronnie Garvin, the hands of stone are turning into the hands of cotton". What. Well, that's certainly a promo.

Match 11: Eddie Gilbert vs George Fox. So who did the flag shopping for Techwood and why is there a Kenyan flag there. Eddie wins with the Hot Shot.

Nikita Koloff has a Bunkhouse Stampede trucker cap. Eddie Gilbert had some words towards Nikita after his match. Nikita has one word for Terry Taylor: Starrcade.

Match 12: Terry Taylor vs Bob Emory. Eddie Gilbert is on commentary and he's predicting matches for Starrcade. Eddie is predicting lots of heel victories at Starrcade. Terry Taylor wins with the Figure Four.
Terry Taylor postmatch promo. He congratulates his parents on doing such a great job.

"All the talking is done" - and that's our show! The next big one is... Nassau Coliseum.... also... Starrcade!

[Cobra Commander]

Things I remember from watching Starrcade 1987:

Hey, the computers updating so let’s watch some wrestling.

Lively crowd for the opening match. TWN is on the ring curtain? Love the ring announcer’s voice. The ref looks like Abe Vigoda. I’m not sure if the refs are wearing handkerchiefs or outlines of the state of Illinois. JR saying the place is sold out seconds after we see 3 empty rows on the hard cam. Why is there a time call. They’re hot for Sting. Steiner looks good. Hayes spiked Larry’s head into the mat on a bulldog that was almost a three count. Wait a minute. We’re approaching a time limit? This is a time limit draw. We’re opening with a time limit draw? This isn’t Madison Square Garden in the 70s. Nobody could job there? Not even a DQ?

Feels like a life lesson can be learned from Windham vs Dr. Death as Windham doesn’t take advantage of a groin shot on a leapfrog. Then Windham flies into a table and Williams beats him with a cradle to retain a title that’s about to not exist anymore.

Skywalkers in the third match? Well there’s not a lot you can really do up there. They tried and the people sounded excited. Eventually the Midnights drop to the canvas and lose. Then Bubba goes up there and Ricky Morton slaps him in the balls and escapes. I forget, was this when Bubba got fucked on pay and left the company as a result?

Michael Hayes has a nice suit and tie on. Jimmy Garvin talks about the card. Steve Williams talks about his match.

That long break was necessary to take down the scaffolding which makes the place look nicer.

Nikita vs Terry Taylor is what it was. Not sure if I just haven’t seen the good long Nikita matches because I’ve seen some Nikita matches that went long and blew. Terry Taylor headbutts Nikita for some reason. Terry and Eddie miscommunicate and Nikita Koloff wins both TV titles.

Time for the tag title matches. This was sorta worked as a different pace. Eventually chaos ensues, the Warriors get the pin, but Tommy Young says he saw an over the top rope DQ. Thus completing an infamous finish where the card moved out of North Carolina fucks over Chicago fans too. Tully and Arn retain.

Nikita Koloff is backstage with both TV titles. Eventually he drops the UWF TV title and we never see it again.

JJ Dillon has comments about his matches tonight.

Of course the gap was because we gotta setup a cage.

Luger/Dusty had more arm work than I was expecting. Dusty seemed unsure of how to respond to Lex’s pec dance. Back to back title matches where the Chicago wrestler loses. I think Dusty almost did a kimura. Why is the ring announcer doing time calls why would this promotion open the door to a time limit draw in a cage match. Dusty bleeds some as is required. JJ just pops Johnny Weaver, drops the key, and decides to heave a chair into the cage (which somehow made it over). Lex bends over onto the chair and Dusty hits a comedic looking DDT onto the chair to win the title because he wasn’t going away for 90 days babeh.

Now it’s main event time. Mixed response for Flair. Mostly boos for Garvin. This was a good match if you want guys to hit each other hard in the chest over and over. They just fumbled the bag so hard on Garvin’s reign that at least the fans closest to the ring mics were ready for him to lose. Ronnie Garvin looks like Dad The Pro Wrestler. Flair bleeds as is required. He eventually bleeds quite a bit. Why is the ring announcer doing time calls for a no time limit match. Ronnie Garvin gets a near fall on the sunset flip. Flair wins with some sort of move into the cage to win the title. This match is remembered more for things like being predictable and fans booing the face champion. But these dudes just hit each other hard over and over and the world wasn’t ready for UWFI Ric Flair. They really should have turned Ronnie Garvin quickly after this instead of in mid-summer because he had a legit gripe with fans. Even if it was mostly booking that screwed him over.

This was a card with multiple “this fucking promotion” finishes. It probably earned a certain amount of its reputation. Some of the matches were better than the reputation. Some were not.

[Stefanie Sparkleface]

10 minutes ago, Cobra Commander said:

TWN is on the ring curtain?

Feels like a life lesson can be learned from Windham vs Dr. Death as Windham doesn’t take advantage of a groin shot on a leapfrog. Then Windham flies into a table and Williams beats him with a cradle to retain a title that’s about to not exist anymore.

TWN was The Wrestling Network, the short-lived name for the combined JCP/Watts syndicated network.

The finish to Windham/Williams was also, at least in my personal fanon anyway, the reason why Windham turns on Dustin Rhodes in 1992 (because Dustin accidentally headbutts Ricky Steamboat low and refuses to pin him, Windham goes apoplectic on the apron, Dustin shoves Windham into a Shane Douglas belly-to-belly suplex, and causes them to lose the tag team titles). I say fanon because, unless I missed something from the 273 hours of TV WCW ran each week, they literally never brought this up once.

[Cobra Commander]

Yeah they were pushing “Jim Crockett Jr of the Wrestling Network” on TV going into this but the whole TWN branding just never really went anywhere after this did it. Did dissolving the UWF and CWF inspire them to stop using the TWN name?

They managed to put TWN on the curtain and then shot the action so tight that you barely noticed the curtain for most of the card.

[Stefanie Sparkleface]

12 minutes ago, Cobra Commander said:

Yeah they were pushing “Jim Crockett Jr of the Wrestling Network” on TV going into this but the whole TWN branding just never really went anywhere after this did it. Did dissolving the UWF and CWF inspire them to stop using the TWN name?

They managed to put TWN on the curtain and then shot the action so tight that you barely noticed the curtain for most of the card.

I want to say Bunkhouse Stampede was also pushed as a TWN production, but that would require me to watch Bunkhouse Stampede again, and I certainly don't want to do that. If it's not gone by then, it's gone around that time.

[Cobra Commander]

The deed was done to kill the Ronnie Garvin title reign when they announced he wouldn’t defend the title for 6 weeks until Starrcade. It was a bit of a disorienting pivot to go from “Ronnie Garvin’s now the hunted” to basically putting the title on ice for weeks.

Also note that Ron Garvin wasn’t on the final WCW episode before Starrcade. They didn’t even show him doing something he could have been plausibly doing to prepare for the match.

Chicago is what it is but having fans chanting “Garvin Sucks” when he’s the face champion is a sign that the booking fucked up hard.

Repeating myself. Garvin should have turned heel on Dusty months before he did.

[odessasteps]

For a cheap plug, Beau did the pod last year where we reviewed the JCP era Starrcade shows and spent a good portion of it burying this show for all the things they did to help kill the company. 

[Cobra Commander]

With everything going on, I can believe that Earl Hebner just dipped out on this promotion one day to become part of a hot angle in the WWF

[Cobra Commander]

After Starrcade 87, maybe it's time for a juice cleanse. And after looking at the Peacock Network directory up and down, I found something to fit into my timeslot.

WWE Old School: Philadelphia Spectrum, 3/25/1978

Well, 45 minutes worth of this card. At least.

Here's the matches we will NOT be seeing tonight:

Joe Turco vs Pete Reeves
Gypsy Rodriguez vs Pete Austin
Dominic DeNucci vs Davey O'Hannon
Gorilla Monsoon vs the Golden Terror

We're starting off with Spiros Arion vs Bob Backlund. This is when Bob Backlund was "the new champion" (having won the title a month before this). Backlund allegedly works out for 6 hours per day. Gary Michael Cappetta is our ring announcer. The crowd is displeased by Spiros Arion. Vince suggesting "maybe one day Bob Backlund will take on Bruno" (NOPE). This looks like a smaller ring than the ones i'm used to seeing for WWF shows. Nice weird strength spot with Backlund lifting Arion up to carry him away from the ropes. Vince says Backlund is a former NCAA champion (sorta true, it was Division 2). Arion really placing value in trying to get rope breaks before Arion just chokes Backlund. There's some "is Bob doing a zany Bob move or is this a botch" question at times here. Bob breaks a knucklelock/test of strength by going between Arion's legs and threatening to do his Bob Backlund dance. Bob starts yanking on Arion's leg in a way that this crowd is getting into. Arion escapes having his leg jerked off and runs Bob's head into the exposed turnbuckle. Then Arion kicks Bob in the groin. Arion with a nice gutwrench of Backlund to get him back in the ring. Vince gives up hope in Backlund as soon as Arion puts him in the backbreaker. Of course Backlund reverses it to escape. Bob rams Arion into the exposed buckle and goes on the offense. Backlund's piledriver gets 2. Arion's foot hits the ref as he's lifted for the Atomic Drop. Strongbow and Maivia get into the ring to break it up as Referee Dick Woehrle has apparently died on the outside. There's some postmatch brawling. Stan Stasiak is spotted in the ring too. For the record, our decision for this one: Double Disqualification. We get a slo-mo of Arion hitting the ref as Vince is giving Spiros the benefit of the doubt in regards to intent.

Backlund and Arion would face off again in April 1978 in a match with special guest referee Gorilla Monsoon.

The other match we get to see is Bruno Sammartino vs Ken Patera. Patera jumps Bruno as he enters the ring. Punch. Kick. Bodyslam. Patera eating multiple armdrags and going to the floor. We're getting more Dick Graham commentary here than in the Backlund match. On one hand, knee drops with no kneepad should be more devastating. On the other hand they should be more devastating to Ken Patera when he misses a kneedrop. Same would be true for elbowdrops and elbow pads. Patera getting some good air on a leapfrog. Bruno immediately bolts for the corner to avoid the Ken Patera full nelson. The crowd wants Bruno to stomp Patera when he's down. Bruno with a form of the Kona Crunch head vice (one hand on top of the head and one on the jaw). Bruno with a full nelson after using a single leg crab earlier in the match. Not sure which promotion last put their commentators directly next to the ring but it feels like WCW did that in 1996 (inspired by Patera wandering around in front of the commentary table). This late 70s Philly crowd is here for some Bruno kicks and punches. Patera lifts Bruno up into the corner and just punches him in the face a few times. Got some peril as Bruno's in a Ken Patera bearhug. Bruno falls to the canvas as Patera falls on top of him in a very romantic scene. Bruno just decides to headbutt Patera to get out of the bearhug. Bruno with some more kicks. Bruno in peril next to the ropes as Patera is beating on him. Another bearhug by Patera. Pruno slips a hand in and hiptosses Patera out of the bearhug. Bruno puts Patera in a bearhug which is countered by an eyerake. We get an interesting camera angle of Patera trying to get into the ring. Bruno really gets mad as this match slips in and out of the ring. Bruno hits Patera with a chair that has wheels. The bell rings. Patera almost goes at it with Bruno before fleeing the ring. For the record, this match ends in a double countout (both of them were out of the ring for long enough based on the timestamp for that to be the case).

So two matches and no actual winners. Whooooo

The month before the Spectrum got Graham vs Bruno for 7 minutes in a steel cage match for the title.

We're getting a 3rd match, it's Haystacks Calhoun vs Nikolai Volkoff. Nikolai Volkoff is from.... Mongolia. Yeah sure. Calhoun is 601 pounds because no true numbers end in zero. Yeah I know Volkoff was a Mongol around here once upon a time. Vince is unsure if Haystacks actually weighs 600 pounds. Jeez Vince, give away all the secrets won't ya. Calhoun starts his fat man offense of ramming his stomach into Volkoff in the corner. Vince heard a rumor from Gorilla Monsoon that Volkoff is gonna go into pro boxing. You know the thing about Gorilla Monsoon spreading rumors in Philly. Calhoun wins after Volkoff falls onto the mat and Calhoun splashes him for the pinfall.

We won't get to see a Peter Maivia/Jay Strongbow vs Stan Stasiak/Baron Mikel Scicluna 2 out of 3 falls match. What a shame.

Well... eh... i'll try something else later for programming on the Peacock. Bruno had a certain amount of hop in his kicks/stomps, didn't he?

[Cobra Commander]

It's another late night and it's time to watch more wrestling. For whatever reason, let's watch potentially bad wrestling.

WWF Superstars (11/20/1993)

This Monday on Raw, Lex Luger eliminated Quebecer Pierre in a twist he certainly didn't see coming!

We're still in Burlington, Vermont in their cool building. Vince McMahon will be joined by a new cohost as Jerry Lawler has mysteriously disappeared. The Foreign Fanatics will announce a new team member. If you were listening to Radio WWF (and why would you be), you heard about Jerry Lawler being "put on hiatus" due to "pending legal action" like he's a primetime show or something. Also Shawn Michaels is off of his mysterious suspension to replace Jerry Lawler in the Survivor Series.

In action this week: The Rocket Owen Hart! Bam Bam Bigelow! The Smoking Gunns! The great potential matchup of Bret Hart vs IRS!

Vince's color commentator this week is... Reo Rodgers. Oh god. No. It's Bruce Prichard doing a Dusty Rhodes voice. This is gonna suck.

Our first match: The Smoking Gunns take on Phil Apollo and Mike Bell. Okay, the Gunns do a double Russian legsweep better than the 1987 Jive Tones did. Seriously, this Reo Rodgers thing sucks. Was Dusty unleashing commentary on WCW shows this early? Gunns win with a back body drop into a powerbomb that narrowly avoids dropping the job guy on his head.

From the pages of the WWF Magazine, it's Gorilla Monsoon. You had Gorilla around the studio and you unleashed Reo Rodgers instead? Two weeks ago, Randy Savage throws Vince to the ground and goes after Crush. Randy Savage has been suspended. "It seems like everything happens on Monday Night Raw" thanks for that endorsement of this non-Raw show, Gorilla.

Let's go to Jim Cornette with Yokozuna, Ludvig Borga, Jacques Rougeau, Scotty Polo, Mr. Fuji, and the newest Foreign Fanatic.. Crush (from the foreign country of Hawaii). Cornette looks tiny in-between Yokozuna and Crush.

The All-Americans have comments about Crush joining the Foreign Fanatics. Lex Luger and The Undertaker working together is a fun idea. But Undertaker's probably a bigger star than Lex right now and Lex is supposed to be the top good guy so...

I checked Wikipedia and they helpfully say that this is the only Reo Rodgers episode of Superstars, presumably Janet Reno diverted the Justice Department from harassing Law & Order's Michael Moriarty to tell the WWF to never do this again.

Next up, Scott Taylor takes on Bam Bam Bigelow. You can almost listen to Vince's commentary and wonder if he's rethinking this idea. Early drama as Scott Taylor dropkicks Bam Bam to the floor. Scott Taylor avoids a diving headbutt and gets a near fall. Bam Bam Bigelow wins with a... dropkick. Well, okay. Vince wants us to not fall for anything trying to imitate the Survivor Series. Yeah it would be a shame for the Survivor Series to get undercut by another promotion's PPV. Meanwhile, Doink taunts Bam Bam Bigelow postmatch.

Is this Reo Rodgers thing Bruce Prichard doing a bit because the WWF is mad that Battlebowl is running too close to the Survivor Series?

Face to Face with Jim Ross. THEY HAVE FUCKING JIM ROSS AVAILABLE AND THEY PUT REO RODGERS ON THE AIR. I mean, I think they're about to fire Jim Ross for the first time, but still. Jim Ross reminds anybody who just tuned in 4 minutes ago that there have beeen changes in the Survivor Series card. Our face to face today is IRS and Diesel talking to Jim Ross. Did Diesel not pay taxes on the salary he got for working his way out of his WCW deal? This might actually be one of the weirder eras of Kevin Nash.

I know this show's main event is a little bit notorious, because I read too much and read people mentioning that match. But this entire show is like having a carbon monoxide leak in your house and trying to figure out what's wrong.

Meanwhile here's Jim Cornette pretending to play the WWF's Sega Genesis video game.

And then from there, it's The Rocket Owen Hart vs Iron Mike Sharpe. Nice to see two Canadian legends go at it. Love the random noises and Mike Sharpe falling like a tree for Owen's Leg Lariat. Owen wins with a top rope dropkick. Iron Mike Sharpe has some immaculate hair.

Hey it's Double J in a country music studio. IT'S MISS TEXAS JACQUELINE. The WWF must have been weird to watch for anybody who was also watching Memphis wrestling in 1993.

Here's Todd Pettengill explaining to us how to buy a Pay Per View. You know the company must be going great if they think the problem is that their viewers don't know how to order Pay Per Views.

That notwithstanding, it's Well Dunn taking on Dennis Diamond and PJ Walker. Did the Steiners break the Beverly Brothers so hard that they had to hire Well Dunn to fill their void on the roster. Well Dunn wins after one of them irish whips Walker into the other Well Dunn member's elbow.

Promotional Consideration Paid For By The Following: ICO PRO! Also by the WWF's action figures!

It's time for the Survivor Series report with Todd Pettengill. And considering how much they're changing the card, they need a report. You know the quality control is lacking if they didn't make Todd redo the line when he didn't refer to Tatanka as "The Native American Tatanka". No mention of the Bret match.

From our vantage point, the main event is here: IRS is taking on Bret Hart. To be honest, I heard this one sucks and I adjusted my expectations accordingly. IRS attacks Bret early and steals his sunglasses for a moment. A series of near falls on a headlock takeover! Okay. An extended headlock ends with a shinbreaker. But don't worry IRS isn't actually gonna do anything interesting and Mr. Fuji is here. A two count on a headlock takeover. That's so intense that we need a commercial break. We return from the break with IRS getting 2 on a vertical suplex. Bold to claim "you will be entertained" by the Survivor Series during this match. Nearfall on a Bret Hart sunset flip. Fuji trips up Bret and Bret punches him. Yokozuna and Jim Cornette come out. Russian Legsweep by Bret. Backbreaker. Elbowdrop. And this match ends in a DQ after Fuji hits Bret Hart in the back with the top of the Japanese flag. Owen Hart comes out to put IRS in the Draymond Sleeper before beating up on him. Owen dropkicks IRS. Bret Hart dropkicks Yokozuna! Here come the agents!

Boy they're gonna sell this upcoming Bret Hart vs Yokozuna TV match.

Hey it's Jim Ross to look at the Survivor Series again if you just tuned in. Now another Face to Face with The Undertaker, Paul Bearer, Jim Cornette, Yokozuna and Mr. Fuji. Jim Cornette suggests they'll take out other members of the All-Americans. Paul Bearer says the Undertaker represents all the dead Americans.

Well, Bret Hart vs IRS wasn't as shitty as some said. But then again, I think Mike Rotund@ is a boring clod all the time so the concept that he had a bad match with Bret Hart doesn't shock me. Reo Rodgers was worse. I just tried to ignore Reo. Weird thing is that he looked like Dutch Mantel while doing his Dusty voice.

Also, i'm very confident in saying that Vince with actual Dusty at sometime during the 1990s would have been a better commentary team than this episode. It felt like Vince played the episode like he was stuck next to a prop comic on a bus ride.

1993 WWF sure is... something! I'm still willing to say 1993 WCW, which was notoriously bad, was better than 1993 WWF. Although WCW fans tend to hate-watch WCW much more than WWF fans did, so that shaped perceptions.

Edited November 16, 2023 by Cobra Commander

[Cobra Commander]

Since i've been in November 1993 WWF and mentioning how I think WCW was better back then... let me go to November 1993 WCW

WCW Saturday Night (11/20/1993)

This show is airing on the same night as Battlebowl.

Match 1: The Shockmaster vs Sledgehammer McGill. Sledgehammer is a black dude who is quite a bit smaller than the Shockmaster. That ring name feels a bit overambitious for a jobguy. The Shockmaster is dressed like a construction worker by this time in his career. Shockmaster wins with a bearhug into a front slam.

Shockmaster joins Mean Gene postmatch. WCW is enough on the ball to know that this show they're taping in the first week of October is gonna air on the same night as their PPV. For best results, let's try to ignore that the matches were in the can for over 6 weeks.

BTW, this episode of TV was taped in Dalton, Georgia. So it's a little less cramped than the setup at Center Stage. Also, presumably a lower percentage of Too Cold Scorpio superfans in Dalton than in Metro Atlanta.

Our main event tonight is the Nasty Boys vs Ricky Steamboat and a mystery partner. Mean Gene says the mystery partner is gonna be Sting. So, thanks Gene?

Match 2: The Colossal Kongs vs Tom Zane & Mike Thor. Kongs win quick with a splash. The Sega Slam of the week is that splash. Feels a bit early to say what the Sega Slam of the week is gonna be. What if there's a better slam later. You'd think they would put the two fat guys in masks with the Assassin but that might be too fat of a trio for 1993 wrestling.

MEAN GENE HERE WITH THE BATTLEBOWL CONTROL CENTER. He's in front such a green screen for this one. We hear from Dustin Rhodes and Paul Orndorff about Battlebowl. The best part about Battlebowl is that you can order it on Pay Per View. Wowwww.

The way the WWF was pushing their November 21st Survivor Series Showdown, you'd think they were running it head to head with Battlebowl.

This is also a 90 minute episode of Saturday Night since WCW isn't gonna accidentally run a taped program head to head with their PPV.

Tony Schiavone wants us to be aware of the fact that lots of things are happening on the Main Event, including a confrontation between Todd Champion and Lord Steven Regal. Tomorrow on the Main Event, it's Todd Champion vs Lord Steven Regal. Wow.

Match 3: Arn Anderson vs Paul Orndorff. Jesse wonders why Todd Champion said the Television title belonged in the USA. This feels like a matchup that should be pretty good. The Assassin was talking to Colonel Parker ("maybe the Assassin's ordering a bucket of chicken" - Jesse). Babyface Arn vs a classic heel in Arn's homeland has potential. Nice sensual grinding of Paul Orndorff's leg into Arn's arm. More arm work from Orndorff after Arn runs his forearm into the post. Pretty sure they cut something out in-between an irish whip and a sleeper since they showed a bald fan for a few seconds. Arn starts to mount a comeback. Stunning Steve comes out of nowhere and immediately gets elbowed in the face by Arn and Orndorff gets disqualified. Paul Roma finally makes the save. Roma and Arn talk to Tony postmatch.

Remember what a mentioned about the taping schedule earlier? Well, Arn had been stabbed by Sid Vicious over 3 weeks before this TV show aired and he was suspended when it aired. Roma hadn't actually turned heel yet but he's about to.

Various wrestlers talk about what Battlebowl means to them. We get some words from Sid, who hasn't technically been fired yet.

How much footage is in the WWE Vault of Sid with the WCW World Title from Worldwide Tapings?

Match 4: Stunning Steve vs Brad Anderson. Steve Austin is a student of the Bobby Eaton (Beautiful Bobby) school of naming in WCW's eyes. Jesse Ventura asks Tony for his dream Battlebowl partner (Ric Flair) before Jesse concedes that he'd have to think about a dream partner since he can't team with Adrian Adonis. For the record, Jesse Ventura's dream battlebowl partner is Rick Rude. Which would have been a hell of a tag team if it were possible in the 80s. Brad Anderson's the son of Gene Anderson and he hasn't done much that people have noticed lately aside from assaulting a wrestler for injuring his son in 2019. Tony didn't mention Brad Anderson's service to our nation as Zan Panzer. Anyways, Austin wins with the Stungun.

Post match, Robert Parker and The Assassin might be putting together a coalition which probably doesn't go anywhere. Steve Austin gets a few words in and knowing what we know now, he might be a good promo.

Let's rewind to the Clash where Rick Rude crawls on the side of the ramp before attacking Davey Boy Smith during the Sting/Davey Boy vs Nasty Boys match.

Our Main Event: The Nasty Boys vs Sting and Ricky Steamboat. A bit of a slow start before an actual lockup. Meanwhile Missy Hyatt has a Toronto Blue Jays hat this week (unfortunately the Braves weren't able to face the Blue Jays in the 1993 World Series in-between the taping and airing of this match). The fun part about the Nastys being reckless oafs is that they can also get hit hard too, like when they spend months with Cactus Jack and Maxx Payne/Kevin Sullivan or when Ricky Steamboat hits some loud chops on the Nasties. Would the team of Sting and Steamboat be called Stingboat, in the spirit of the Briscos calling Steamboat/Youngblood "Youngboat" in 1983. Looking at Cagematch, the only matches with Ricky Steamboat and the Nasty Boys were in October/November 1993 and then two matches in February 1994 (Steamboat and Bagwell in one match, Steamboat and Arn in the other). We see Ricky Steamboat chasing a very slow Jerry Sags outside the ring before Knobbs trips him. Missy Hyatt also took part in the very casual looking chase. This match is being worked out like how I'd expect. Steamboat is in peril and is being kept away from tagging Sting. Meanwhile Fifi will be assisting Mean Gene at Battlebowl and Jesse jokes about Fifi polishing Gene's head. Here's a list of places that saw Steamboat vs the Nasty Boys live: Dalton GA, Sedalia MO somehow, 3 shows in Germany, Like Oak FL and Lakeland FL. What a list. Steamboat had never faced the Nasties before this one and they're working pretty well together. Randy Anderson doesn't see Sting tag in so Steamboat has to be in peril for a little longer. I forget what the original plan for the Nasties at Starrcade 93 was, I'm thinking it was gonna be Nasties vs Flair/Steamboat if not for Sid stabbing Arn. But I could be wrong. Steamboat finally gets the hot tag and Sting goes after both Nasties. Sting gets Sags in the Scorpion but Rick Rude runs in for a disqualification. And here comes Ric Flair to make the save for the faces. Ric's in a sweater and we are outta time!

They didn't announce next week's main event but pretty confident it'll be Nasties and Rude vs Steamboat/Sting/Flair. I'll try to not point out that WCW is doing TV where they air 2 PPVs in-between the taping and airing of the November 27th episode (waitaminute I might have just pointed that out)

Steamboat/Sting vs the Nasty Boys was a good matchup. I'm pretty confident that Steamboat & Sting would have been a better pairing to spend 29 minutes with the Nasty Boys than Sting & Hawk. But they had to vigorously shake up Starrcade with Sid and Davey Boy "departing" in the last few months of the year. Obviously Flair/Vader was way better than Sid/Vader would have been.

[Cobra Commander]

Ladies and Gentlemen, let's watch some old wrestling from 30 years ago.

World Class Championship Wrestling (12/10/1983)

We're at Reunion Arena this week. Kamala vs David Von Erich tonight! also Chris Adams vs Jimmy Garvin.

Match 1: Terry Gordy vs Kevin Von Erich. That was a neatly violent armdrag from Gordy before Kevin does two armdrags. Yeah sure, Kevin was helping Gordy off the top rope by kicking him to the floor when he crouched himself on the rope. On one hand, there's a lot of arm work, on the other hand I slept wrong and one of my shoulders felt odd sitting in a chair, so I can see how arm work could help out. Also got some work on Gordy's thumb due to the Spike. The combination of arm work and Bronko's speed led to a close-ish call of Gordy flipping out of an armbar and touching Bronko in the process. The concept of getting hit by a top rope by Terry Gordy seems like it should be terrifying. Splashes are alluded until they're not. Kevin wins with a bodypress off the top. Then Buddy Roberts runs in and Gordy beats up Kevin with Buddy's boot before stomping his hand. Buddy Roberts is dressed like he smells of cigarettes and alcohol. He just don't get so much hand-work these days, do ya?

David Von Erich talks to Bill Mercer about his match with Kamala. David's cowboy hat and jacket looks stylish. Like he's going out for a nice dinner after this interview's over.

Match 2: Kamala vs David Von Erich. Mercer daring to say that 100% of the fans are behind David because snarky dorks cheering for Kamala didn't exist in 1983 Texas. Kamala's billed at 6'10, David's billed at 6'7 and David looks taller. Did Kamala mix in any punches since Slick civilized him and turned him face in 1993? David is bleeding from somewhere as he gets back into the ring. I think Kamala licked some of David's blood off of his hand in case you wanted to know if there was any historical precedent for certain spots from Swerve/Hangman. Bronko has the 3 count cadence of somebody trying to get in the house without waking anybody up. Kamala gets the claw on him but he eventually escapes. Friday gets the claw! Akbar gets the claw! Kamala gets disqualified. Gotta love Akbar's technicolor dreamcoat outfit. Kerry runs over the announcer's table to make the save. Kamala got some pretty good color from the claw. David got some color. Hey teen girls, here's some bloody wrestlers!

Chris Adams has some words about his upcoming title match. Sunshine is here to keep Precious from interfering.

Jimmy Garvin has some words and pledges to take care of "that phony Englishman and that poor excuse of a woman". 

Match 3: Jimmy Garvin vs Chris Adams for the American title. Chris Adams hedging his bets by having white stars on blue alongside a Union Jack. Sunshine with a nice fur coat. Precious with Linda Hamilton-esque hair. Some of these Chris Adams armdrags have a real judo throw look to them (yes I know why). This is a fiery matchup which is a change from all the Jimmy Garvin matches in the years after this that were not exactly crisp. Adams' Superkick is fucking awesome looking. Precious tries to help Jimmy Garvin reverse a suplex into the ring which means it's time for Sunshine to pull Jimmy Garvin down by his hair for the finish as Chris Adams wins the American Title. Sunshine slaps David Manning postmatch and that's the winning side of this one. I believe that technically Jimmy Garvin's hair is a weakness, and considering it fell out as soon as he stopped wrestling.

[Ace]

That's 40 years ago.

 

[Cobra Commander]

you mean Battlebowl 93 wasn't 20 years ago?

[Cobra Commander]

Things I remember from Starrcade 1983:

Let's go back to 30 40 years ago as Starrcade 1983 has a 40th anniversary this Friday and I haven't seen the full card before so, let's watch it before Thanksgiving.

Gordon Solie is in town to join Bob Caudle for this one. There's a few other Florida people hanging around Greensboro plotting their takeover. Gordon Solie isn't about to learn how to say Schiavone tonight.

They start with this match in the ring (be thankful it didn't start in progress like some weeks of Mid-Atlantic TV). Gordon tells us that Bugsy McGraw has a college degree. Bugsy's shoulders are wide, even in a match with the Assassin. Jody Hamilton (Fat Assassin) is a bit better than The Other Guy (Skinny Assassin) but Jody needs to take breathers so that's why the other guy is there. Rufus has some amazingly shitty looking punches, like he's swinging his wrist directly at guys. Also they can't hit Rufus in the head because of racial stereotypes. Assassins win with a schoolboy of Bugsy.

We see that Ric Flair's dressing room has an 80s couch in it (later on we find that Harley's dressing room also has a couch)

I get the impression that Mark Lewin has some interesting matches, some of which are even preserved on tape, from this era. The heels (Sullivan/Lewin) win while referee Sonny Fargo was distracted. No wonder they had to institutionalize him for most of the year aside from getting to visit Memphis. Then Scott McGhee dropkicks Gary Hart postmatch and Gary pulls a blade out of his sock so that Lewin can stab McGhee and produce a lot of blood quickly. I can buy into the concept of Gary Hart getting somebody stabbed because they almost made him bump. Blood!, or as Gordon puts it, a laceration, which is a term they don't use enough.

Harley Race informs us that he has gathered information about Ric Flair from the local heels.

That blood is only a prelude for Carlos Colon vs Abdullah. Wonder how wild the closed circuit wrestling watch parties were in 1983 Puerto Rico. As is tradition, Carlos stabs Abdullah until he bleeds a bunch. There's some bloodplay. Eventually Hugo Savinovich, in his awesome suit, interferes and Abby wins. The crowd was into the concept of blood, an important cultural exchange between Puerto Rico and Greensboro.

Angelo Mosca is angry but he will be able to referee the tag title match later

Barbara Clary is here from Florida to interview some fans

Orton/Slater vs Wahoo/Mark Youngblood was fun. Not sure if it was this match or Brown/Kabuki where we first saw the camera angle from directly above the ring which showed us the blood stains on the mat. Mark was in peril for a long time before Wahoo could tag in and hit some dudes hard. Heels prevail again as Wahoo is just barely too slow. The prematch shot of Wahoo and Mark had Wahoo glaring towards Mark a bit. Got some heels trying to injure Wahoo's arm post-match.

They try to interview Dusty but the audio doesn't cooperate.

Charlie Brown vs Kabuki is what you'd expect. Gordon decided to call him Downtown Charlie Brown because reasons. Eventually Charlie Brown makes a comeback, wins the title, and then mysteriously disappears after the end of Jimmy Valiant's suspension.

Gordon Solie has a soft spot for Piper due to a famous angle from Georgia. Slater and Orton join Harley in his dressing room. They do the Dusty promo over again as he's challenging the winner. Barbara Clary is looking better and better as the night goes on.

Valentine/Piper was ridiculously violent and probably still the standard for how to do a match with people trying to kill each other. You have actual tangible psychology for how to work a match while chained to another guy. Obviously both guys are close to each other for the entire match unless you count the tug of war as not being close to each other. The thing is, they didn't need to really use anything aside from the chain and themselves and they didn't need to leave ringside which is an idea that maybe a future gimmick match should try again one day instead of trying to use everything in the arena (hell, have a match use everything and a second match that can't use everything because everything isn't there). Both guys bleed like pigs. Roddy bleeds from his ear. Roddy Piper wins because the match has to end somehow without a fatality. They eventually tell Gordon that the title wasn't on the line. There's postmatch fighting too. They do more dog collar matches for Christmas season shows before never wrestling again.

Don Kernodle is here and he's wearing a suit.

Another shoutout to how awesome the Voice of Greensboro ring announcer is for this event. Angelo Mosca is refereeing this match because they need a big bulky dude and the only shirt that fits him is a PWI shirt. 3 of the 4 people in this match weren't wrestling within 2 years of this match (the Briscos retired upon discovering winter and Jay Youngblood died). Niceeee counter out of the Key Lock by Steamboat. Not sure if the Briscos got to be heels for any promotion that Gordon worked for, so having Gordon with heel Briscos is novel after how much time he spent around babyface Briscos. Pretty good match. Faces win. Briscos attack Mosca. Mosca gets up and stops a postmatch doubleteam reprise of the attack that turned the Briscos heel. Boy there sure are several postmatch match fracas tonight for programs that you'd think were being wrapped up that night. Babyfaces walk tall at the end of this night.

Gotta hand it to Gordon, he was right about this being a momentous show. They're running credits before the main event so that Gordon can name some people (also they need time to set up a cage).

Amazing how quickly it took wrestling promotions to realize "hey, we can make the process of holding a cage match quicker by not having to assemble it like an Ikea"

So it's time for Tony Schiavone to talk to some winners. I don't know how anybody could see/hear Charlie Brown and think he's Jimmy Valiant. Meanwhile Roddy Piper is appropriately deranged for the occasion with "is that the best you could do". Young-Boat gets some words in too.

While we need to fill some time assembling the cage, here's Barbara Clary with  Dusty and some fans. Dusty says Barbara exactly how you'd expect him to say that in his voice

Hey we're doing the national anthem before the World Title Match. You see, this guy is called Tiny Weeks because he's actually huge.

They really unleashed the best light show they could get into 1983 Greensboro for this Flair intro. Unlike Starrcade 87, I didn't spot Klondike Bill assembling the Starrcade 83 cage. Meanwhile Harley doesn't get an entrance theme because there wasn't an instrumental song associated with a 1970s barfight. Unlike Angelo Mosca, Gene Kiniski is dressed like a referee. For the record, the Greensboro ring announcer is a "Missour-uh" guy as you can tell from his intros of Bob Orton and Harley Race. Bold prediction from Gordon that "the man who executes the best is gonna win this one". Gene Kiniski is doing thangs like trying to enforce rules in a steel cage match. At least when Michael Hayes was an overbearing referee in a cage match, there was a reason why. Yeah I don't get why you'd keep a time limit for a steel cage, aside from formalities. Meanwhile Gordon says that a 60 minute match is the equivalent to four NFL games due to the amount of time spent in contact. Gene is refereeing this one like he wasn't told until the last minute that this was a cage match. That camera above the ring feels like a good camera angle to have for cage matches. Yess we got more blood. So would Taz be the Human Suplay Machine if Gordon called one of his matches. Gene Kiniski is way too fucking handsy. Really giving off some "neighborhood watch" dude vibes trying to prevent wrestlers from using the cage. Yesss this overhead camera angle is really neat during the figure four. This being 1983, the concept of reversing a figure-four was novel. Gene Kiniski is the world's most aggressive airport security agent tonight. People just wanna get on a flight to Indianapolis, Gene. Yessss, never has a match needed a ref bump more than this one. Flair wins with a bodypress, the last time he ever hit a move off the top rope. You likely knew that finish.

There's 19 minutes between the end of the title match and the end of this show on the Network. (That would be brief compared to the post-show press conferences done today)

Not sure how many of these "all the babyfaces celebrate a title win" celebrations took place with the defeated heel in the ring. Then again I don't remember where Vader in Baltimore 1992 or Hogan in August 1997 was.

Man the graphics package was amazing for 1983, wasn't it? Angelo Mosca provides a valuable service by letting Flair ride on his shoulders. Ric Flair's wife (checks Wikipedia) I don't know which wife this was since Ric divorced and remarried in 1983, but I'm guessing Beth unless Ric managed to divorce Leslie and marry Beth in the last 5 weeks of the year. She got a hug from Ric, for the record.

Babyface hero Ric Flair is really a long ways from loud maniac heel Ric Flair, wasn't it? Kinda feels like the message from Mid-Atlantic Hero Ric Flair would be "why did he want to be a heel". Both of those alignments are great though.

One thing I got from this show, Tony Schiavone has aged pretty decently well over 40 years. Getting out of wrestling for nearly 20 years will do that for you. Love how both Flair and Race have dressing rooms that look like a faculty lounge in a high school. Also Dusty shows up as the Jaws theme faintly plays in the background for what all these Dusty appearances mean.

Harley gets a post-defeat interview and it looks like he did the "hit me directly in this part of my head to split me open naturally" thing if that mark above his eye is any indicator. The mark does make Harley seem even more threatening, if he needed to be more frightening.

Ric Flair gets to talk to Tony again alongside the Mid-Atlantic Championship Wrestling Superfriends babyfaces (Steamboat/Youngblood). Looks like they soaked Tony in something before this interview.

These "Bob Caudle talks to Gordon to kill some time" segments didn't really drag either. Also, how many fans did they get in Trinidad for a Starrcade 83 closed circuit?

Hey, the Starrcade theme that they kept playing going into Starrcade 87 makes an appearance to close out the show.

Ranking the Starrcade 1983 lacerations

1. Flair
2. Scott McGhee for the rate of blood loss
3. Valentine and Piper (tied)
4. Abdullah doing his usual

So that was a fun one!

[zendragon]

Gene Kiniski is really something as a ref, like isn't the whole damn cage a foreign object? So why isn't the whole match no -DQ?

[Stefanie Sparkleface]

2 hours ago, Cobra Commander said:

They start with this match in the ring (be thankful it didn't start in progress like some weeks of Mid-Atlantic TV). Gordon tells us that Bugsy McGraw has a college degree. Bugsy's shoulders are wide, even in a match with the Assassin. Jody Hamilton (Fat Assassin) is a bit better than The Other Guy (Skinny Assassin) but Jody needs to take breathers so that's why the other guy is there. Rufus has some amazingly shitty looking punches, like he's swinging his wrist directly at guys. Also they can't hit Rufus in the head because of racial stereotypes. Assassins win with a schoolboy of Bugsy.

I'm 99% sure the other Assassin was Hercules Hernandez, which may make this the only time he's ever been described as skinny.

[Cobra Commander]

2 minutes ago, Sparkleface said:

I'm 99% sure the other Assassin was Hercules Hernandez, which may make this the only time he's ever been described as skinny.

I also missed that the Assassins did a switcher-roo between Jody Hamilton and Hercules Hernandez to get the pin.

Those all black bodysuits must be pretty slimming.

[Cobra Commander]

extra thing from Starrcade 83 that I just remembered:

Johnny Weaver pattycaking the top of the head before doing a running bulldog. That seems like something distinctive enough that a wrestler could do today.

I'm pretty confident I typed this about Weaver a few weeks ago, but it feels like he's a guy who probably had a bunch of really good/interesting matches that we'll never get to see because the matches happened in the 1970s

[GuerrillaMonsoon]

Watching Watts-era WCW Saturday Night 1992.

There are a LOT of "upcoming young star babyface" angles overlapping (Erik Watts, Robbie/Bobby Walker, Marcus Bagwell, Shane Douglas, to a lesser extent Dustin Rhodes too).

The break up of Rhodes and Windham is such a good angle though - I love the idea of Rhodes teaming up with either more established babyfaces (Steamboat), or guys you could argue are more over than Windham at the time, or made logical sense as a partner (Armstrong recently coming off a program with Pillman).

Rather than Jimmy outright turn heel on Jey at Summerslam, it would have been cool to see Jey attempt to defend the titles with Cody, Rollins, Sami etc before Jey turned on him. I'm surprised it's an angle that's never been replicated again.

For every bit I enjoyed this, Tony Atlas as a heel fucking suuuuuuuuuucked.

[Cobra Commander]

16 hours ago, GuerrillaMonsoon said:

There are a LOT of "upcoming young star babyface" angles overlapping (Erik Watts, Robbie/Bobby Walker, Marcus Bagwell, Shane Douglas, to a lesser extent Dustin Rhodes too).

was this episode before Scorpio debuted and surpassed a bunch of those guys on his first night?