WWE Network Conversation

[twiztor]

On 12/2/2024 at 7:54 AM, Gorman said:

Thoughts on Survivor Series 2003

John Cena and Chris Benoit made an early bid for MVP as survivors of the Team Angle vs. Team Lesnar match. Benoit made Lesnar tap out to the Crossface, while Cena hit the FU on the Big Show. Cena wore a Joe Namath throwback jersey.

Molly Holly retained the women's title over Lita, surviving a moonsault that was 80 percent gravity and 20 percent grace.

Kane was the MVP for destroying Shane McMahon in an ambulance match and then helping Vince bury Kane's brother in the Buried Alive match.

Those weren't the only two huge downers on this show. Steve Austin lost his career when his team lost to Eric Bischoff's team. JR said twice that Austin had never been involved in a Survivor Series elimination match, when it happened just two years earlier as the WWF put the Alliance out of business.

The fans needed some good news at the end of the show, so Goldberg beat Triple H again to retain the World title. He wiped out the Evolution members with a sledgehammer and then threw it aside to put away HHH. That means Goldberg also wins the MVP award.

 

TWO MVPs? And both from the Raw side? that's quite an accomplishment for what was generally seen as the lesser of the brands.

[Gorman]

Yeah, I try not to give out two MVP awards, but sometimes it would be unfair not to recognize a clearly MVP-worthy performance.

[SirSmUgly]

I have been running Royal Rumbles in the background while I work, and I have to ask: Is the 1994 Royal Rumble the most overbooked WWF PPV pre-Attitude Era? 

1. Bret/Owen has Tim White just stop the match randomly; the crowd is initially confused because when do we get ref stoppages for limb damage? What if Bret tried one more fightback, but as he picks up Rougeau, his leg crumples and Rougeau falls on top of him for three? That's a better finish than a ref stoppage in this instance. 

2. Razor/IRS has the finish with the HBK interference and the second ref coming down to re-start the match. Maybe just have HBK's interference misfire or have him still land a belt shot behind the ref's back, but Razor can kick out at 2.9 instead.

3. The Undertaker/Yoko casket match is ABSURD. Don't book this match if you don't want to have the Undertaker just eat a loss so he can take some time off. Or, you know, if you want a wonky finish, maybe cool it with the Undertaker's spirit floating into the heavens after he cuts a promo that's barely more telligible (*cough*) than a mediocre Warrior promo. 

4. The Rumble has the Luger/Hitman tie finish. 

The fourth of those finishes is the only one that I'd say gets pulled off with no need for revision. 

[twiztor]

19 hours ago, SirSmUgly said:

Bret/Owen has Tim White just stop the match randomly; the crowd is initially confused because when do we get ref stoppages for limb damage? What if Bret tried one more fightback, but as he picks up Rougeau, his leg crumples and Rougeau falls on top of him for three? That's a better finish than a ref stoppage in this instance. 

obligatory:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZybZf-nPIQg

[SirSmUgly]

1 hour ago, twiztor said:

obligatory:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZybZf-nPIQg

Poor Owen. The whole promo is a loss because he gets brainlocked early on with the phrsae YOU'RE TOO DAMN SELFISH and never finds a way out of that. Funny that in about a year, he'd easily be one of the best talkers in the company. 

[Gorman]

Thoughts on Armageddon 2003

Lilian Garcia sang the national anthem as the WWE fans celebrated Saddam Hussein's capture one day earlier.

Booker T vs. Mark Henry and Rob Van Dam vs. Randy Orton were battles of future World champions. Booker and Orton won the matches, and they ended up winning the World title before their opponents.

Trish Stratus & Lita were unable to beat Chris Jericho & Christian, and Jericho showed some remorse toward Trish after the bout.

As soon as Molly Holly started wrestling, JR and the King started talking about her being sexually frustrated. I thought we were finished with this garbage. She got the last laugh by defeating Ivory to retain the women's title.

Like Chris Benoit in Baltimore, Shawn Michaels got a huge babyface reception in Orlando. Both of them would reach the WrestleMania main event.

With Evolution winning all the belts, you would think Triple H would get the trophy, but the MVP is none other than 54-year-old Ric Flair! He helped Orton win the IC belt, cheered up Batista after his loss, won the tag team turmoil match with Big Dave, and then helped HHH defeat Goldberg and Kane in the main event.

Evolution was cosplaying as The Four Horsemen and with HHH playing him, Flair turned in the same performance Arn Anderson gave at Unforgiven 99: winning the tag belts and helping the leader win the World title.

Edited December 5, 2024 by Gorman

[Gorman]

Thoughts on Royal Rumble 2004

The Dudleys were in a tables match in Philly, but they couldn't win the belts from Batista and 54-year-old Ric Flair.

Nidia screwed up in her attempt to help Jamie Noble win the cruiserweight title from Rey Mysterio. In her defense, she was blind.

The fans in Philly cared more about the Eddy-Chavo match than the Baltimore fans did at Great American Bash 98. Eddy said he would outwrestle his nephew, pin him, and then beat him up. That's exactly what he did. His big brother, Chavo Sr., couldn't help because Eddy had tied him to the bottom rope with his necktie.

Hardcore Holly never cared about winning anything important. He didn't care about winning King of the Ring 99. He didn't care about capturing the European title. So when it came time to face Brock Lesnar, Holly cared more about avenging his broken neck than, you know, winning the WWE title. As you might suspect, Holly didn't achieve either goal.

John Cena came in at No. 28, wearing a No. 45 Phillies jersey to honor reliever Tug McGraw, who had passed away earlier in the month.

The Royal Rumble match had a lot of potential winners: Angle, Jericho, Big Show, RVD, and Goldberg, and they all came in from 19 to 30. But Chris Benoit won the whole thing, so he's the MVP.  Paul Heyman stuck him with No. 1, Ric Flair said he couldn't win the big one, and he had to eliminate Big Show at the end when six guys were unable to do it earlier in the match.  He also broke Bob Backlund's longevity record by 24 seconds by lasting 61:34.

 

Edited December 8, 2024 by Gorman

[zendragon]

I think that's one of the great rumbles up their with 92, Austin's third win and HHH winning after tearing his quad 

[SirSmUgly]

On 12/7/2024 at 2:58 PM, Gorman said:

Thoughts on Royal Rumble 2004

He also broke Bob Backlund's longevity record by 24 seconds by lasting 61:34.

 

Holy shit, that record lasted over a decade?!

[Gorman]

Thoughts on No Way Out 2004

Shaniqua and Nidia fought the guys in the first two matches and lost. Shaniqua played the Mr. Fuji role as her Bashams lost a handicap title match against Rikishi & Scotty 2 Hotty. Nidia had regained her eyesight, but she lost to the blindfolded Jamie Noble.

Showing footage of Alcatraz Prison was perfect for a show called "No Way Out."

Bradshaw proved that the APA was not the World's Greatest Tag Team in a loss to Haas & Benjamin. He came in with an injured arm and hurt himself by delivering the Clothesline From Hell to Haas, who was the illegal man in the ring. Benjamin, the legal man, quickly scored the pinfall.

Stone Cold Steve Austin gave Goldberg a ticket to the show and said "Don't do anything I wouldn't do." So Goldberg hopped the rail and gave Brock Lesnar the Jackhammer before getting arrested. 

Sign of the Night: BRING BACK STRIKE FORCE

Kurt Angle won the No. 1 contendership in a three-way over Cena and Big Show, putting him in the top Smackdown match at WrestleMania for the second year in a row. Cena wore a No. 44 Willie McCovey jersey for the San Francisco Giants.

This was a great night to be a Guerrero. Chavo Sr. got knocked out by boxing champion Jorge Paez, but he recovered in time to help Chavo Jr. win the cruiserweight title from Rey Jr. Then Eddy won the big one by defeating Brock for the WWE title. Of course, he's the MVP. Goldberg came back from getting arrested and speared Brock, but that didn't lead to the finish. Eddy figured out how to beat Brock all by himself. Brother Mando and Mama Guerrero were in the crowd for the big night.

 

Edited December 15, 2024 by Gorman

[zendragon]

That finish for Eddy v Brock is a perfect example of how interference in wrestling can be a good finish. Move's the title off of Brock on to Eddie while keeping him strong, sets up Brock v Goldberg for mania (and leaves Eddie free to tangle with Kurt) and you can always go back to Brock Eddie if Brock didn't leave

[Gorman]

Thoughts on WrestleMania XX

Entering Madison Square Garden, John Cena wore a Patrick Ewing jersey for the hometown New York Knicks. He beat Big Show with the FU for the first of many championships in WWE.

Raw and Smackdown each presented four-way tag team title matches. In both cases, the babyfaces champions won (Dudleys and Scotty & Rikishi).

It's always great to see Bobby Heenan, even when he's stuck in an "amorous old people" comedy skit with Mae, Moolah and Mean Gene.

Rock and Ric Flair had a mini-dream match within the Evolution-Rock & Sock match. Could you imagine the promos leading up to that match?

The Playboy Evening Gown made no sense because that's not the attire associated with that magazine, and you could only win by pinfall or submission. So Sable said, let's just ditch the evening gowns.

Ultimo Dragon in a WWE ring for the Cruiserweight Open seemed very strange, but in a good way. Chavo Sr. helped his son prevail over Rey Jr. again.

Why didn't Goldberg vs. Lesnar work?

• Both men had lost their titles
• It wasn't the main event
• They went slow and didn't tear each other apart at the opening bell
• Stone Cold was the referee for no reason, and he was a big part of the match buildup
• The fans knew that Lesnar was leaving the company

Think of how big the WrestleMania XX main event would have been if all of those things were changed. It could have been a double title match!

Jesse Ventura came out to interview Donald Trump at ringside. Jerry Lawler talked about Jesse's political career and how crazy it would be for Trump to be the vice president someday.

Molly Holly didn't win the women's title and lost her hair, but she made sure that a serious women's wrestling match was on the show by putting her hair on the line.

Chris Benoit is the MVP for beating the perennial World champion and Mr. WrestleMania at the same time. Just as he finally overcame the odds to win the WCW title in 2000, he made it to the top of the WWE mountain four years later.

 

Edited December 26, 2024 by Gorman