WWE Network Conversation

[Technico Support]

5 hours ago, Mister TV said:

Less points for winning by DQ or countout would be a good way to start a heel turn, on this night you could have Flair with a 15 point lead over Sting, so the Stinger needs the 20 for a pin/submission victory to win the tourney, at some point when Flair feels he isn't going to win so he gets DQ'ed either subtly or blatantly. Or you have one of the heel teams try to get DQ'ed to seal the overall win and Tommy Young is basically "Nope, I know what you're doing" and keeps the match going. 

You put more thought into this scenario, which probably took you all of three minutes, than whoever booked WCW in late '89 did for this tournament. 

Speaking of, does anyone have a "who was in power when" timeline for WCW? 

[odessasteps]

May I just the still relatively Center Stage podcast documenting history of wcw done by Zellner, Naylor and Loss. They are still only in fall 1989. 

[Technico Support]

On to 1990 with Clash of the Champions X: Texas Shoot Out!

• Doc vs Samoan Savage starts the show
• For some absolutely dumb reason, WCW is doing WWF style vignettes for their wrestlers.  Williams is now a literal doctor as he carries a jobber (might have been Italian Stallion or Joey Maggs) to an ambulance and does amazing WORKED CHEST COMPRESSIONS!  It's fucking hilarious.  Like you know how a wrestler does a stomp or jump when striking?  Williams does that hop when trying to start the jobber's heart.  It's glorious.
• Perfectly acceptable match, shine/heat/comeback.  Both guys are up to the task and it's above average in that 80s way.  My only issue is the finish, which saw Doc reverse a hiptoss into a backslide for the win.  Look, they were building him for a US title shot vs Luger at the next PPV (which got all sorts of fucked due to Sting's injury).  Tonga Kid was part of the injury alternate tag team in last month's tournament.  He has zero singles wrestler standing.  At least beat him with your finish.  Damn.
• Pillman and Zenk vs the MOD Squad is up.  Really smart use of the babyfaces to form a new blowjob tag team now that the Dynamic Dudes crapped out.  Zenk is best as a tag wrestler.  He has nothing anyone wants to see as a single.  Pillman's singles run was on the downside, having lost two US title matches vs Luger the prior year.  They're super over here, working together.  Really good choice.
• The MOD Squad are supposed to be disgraced highway patrolmen, I guess.  All it takes is one almost dying on an early back body drop to understand that these dudes absolutely not light on their feet.  Everything they do is so heavy.  They have the grace of a Cadillac El Dorado.
• Zenk reverses a throw to the corner into a cross body that MOD Squad #1 is way out of position for.  He almost bodypresses his knees.  Pillman breaks the pin with an mistimed running dropkick, hitting MOD #2 with shotgun knees instead, accidentally inventing the meteora. Babyfaces win a glorified job match and I guess it's not horrible.
• Cornette spends the night making racist jokes about the Latino people in attendance because he's always been awful.
• Mick Foley is here as Cactus Jack Manson and I remembered him, at the time, from his brief run in World Class.  Around this time in my life, one of the DC UHF stations (Channel 50) ran a different wrestling company every night at 5.  They had World Class, AWA, Global, GLOW, and something else.  We lived in Greektown in Baltimore and were ballin' out of control with our directional antenna on the roof.  I was hot shit.
• Mascaras has that aged bodybuilder bod where his chest sticks out about a foot further than his permanently sucked in gut.  He looks like the guy in the old magazine ad where the dude kicks sand in the nerd's face.
• Not much to tell here.  Foley makes Mascaras look good, does THAT GODAWFUL BUMP to the concrete and then takes a cross body for the Mascaras win.  Bad agenting with two flying bodypress wins back to back.
• Kevin Sullivan vs Norman (the Lunatic), falls count anywhere, is up.  They do another vignette with Norman as he visits a petting zoo.  Part of his dialogue with the pigs is cut out, so he probably said something awful by today's standards. 
• Nobody calls him "the lunatic" except for Capetta, because Gary Capetta apparently doesn't give a fuck about mental health struggles. 
• Sullivan is still working out the kinks of stuff he'd later excel at in ECW and, later, vs Benoit in WCW.  But if the previous match had a guy attempting suicide via back-first dive to the concrete, then nothing in this match is impressive at all. 
• Shitty ending as they brawl into "the ladies room," followed by sounds of fighting and a three count, then Sullivan staggers out of the room and face plants.  Norman celebrates with a toilet seat and toilet paper.  Not a good match, just pretty much a cartoonish version of what Sullivan would do much better later.
• Extracurricular activities:
  • Horsemen promo: the Horsemen kick Sting out of the group for breaking Horsemen Rule #1: Never challenge Flair for the belt, dumbass.  Ole's promo is great, very realistic, as he repeatedly cuts Sting off to keep dressing him down.  He even cuts off Flair to just keep on sonning Sting's ass.  Ole isn't mad; he's just disappointed.  Flair is awesome here, as he's sort of reluctant, since Sting did help him in 89.  But then Sting starts to fight back and Flair just DECKS him and loses his shit.  Such a great angle.
  • You know how certain promos stick with you?  I will NEVER forget Ole losing his grip on words and saying "because of his.......NICE.......KINDNESS!" 
  • You need to see the WrestleWar: Wild Thing "rap" video, featuring a clearly white southern dude trying to sound black.  It's tremendous.
  • Terry Funk interviews Luger and Lex has the worst promo night of his career.  Far worse than "I DON'T KNOOOOOOW!"  Terry legit has to cut him off and go to commercial  It's awful.  Lex is wearing the same collarless shirt he wore when he came back to Nitro!  It's not what you make, brother, it's what you save.
• That's all for now.  Thanks for reading.

 

 

 

YOUR SHIRTS ARE TOO TIGHT BILLY

 

Edited November 5 by Technico Support

[Technico Support]

Concluding Clash X:

• The Road Warriors, your team of the future, vs the Skyscrapers, is next.
  • LOD gets a vignette where they're destroying cars in a junkyard.  That's like taking a shit at the treatment plant, I guess.
  • Since Sid is still out, we get THE NEW Skyscrapers, with Mean Mark Callous filling in.  You may know him as Mark Callaway, who made quite a successful career in the far right podcast and standup circuit.
  • I'll be honest, I watched the first half of this match in bed and dozed off a few times until I just turned it off.  That probably speaks to its quality.
  • I watched the finish the next day.  The LOD double clotheslines Magataker over the top, Animal almost falls out, too.  The camera stays way too long on Callous and misses whatever happens in the ring.  Doomsday Device on Spivey and then the ref inexplicably decides he NEEDS to get Hawk out of the ring right then and there.  With the ref distracted, the big ginger goof does the worst top rope chairshot ever.  Awful camera work means we have no idea what happened to the ref, who is now just gone.  Did Hawk eat him?  Did he teleport to his home planet?  Spivey wears Hawk out with chairshots despite Paul Ellering trying to intervene.  No decision is announced.
  • This sets up a Chicago streetfight rematch on the next show, but then Spivey quits and is replaced by The Masked Skyscraper, 6'5" Mike Enos, but that's another story for a later review.
• Steiners vs Doom, masks vs belts
  • Woman doesn't come out with Doom even though the on-screen graphic says "with Woman."  Bang up job as always, WCW.
  • Another perfectly acceptable match.  Nothing amazing, just average.  Ross tells us Doom's identity is the worst kept secret in wrestling.  Even I remember, watching this as a kid, that we all knew.  I mean when two of wrestling’s bigger black stars are nowhere to be found and then masked black team appears, it's not too hard to figure out.
  • Ross also tells us that Doom are street fighters from the streets while touting the Steiners' college educations.  Dogwhistle much?  Of course, the whole deal with a hot white lady managing two black dudes was absolutely meant to trigger a certain part of their audience.  Some heat truly is gross heat.
  • Rick makes the hot tag and pulls off Reed's mask before they even win.  Then he rolls the shocked Reed into the shocked, still masked, Simmons and gets the pin.  Simmons unmasks under threat of suspension.  On to better things for them as their run really got good after unmasking.
• Horsemen vs J-Tex Corporation
  • Sting is out of the Horsemen and has until the end of the night to blow his knee and fuck up all the booking plans rescind his title match.  So the match is Flair and the Andersons vs Muta, Buzz Sawyer, and Dragonmaster.
  • Sawyer is so animated coming to the ring.  I am convinced he is a pile of cocaine made flesh via dark magic.
  • Speaking of...I'd always heard that Sawyer ripped off Taker for training money and skipped town.  Conventional wisdom was, "Sawyer is lucky Taker never caught up with him!"  But I just realized both shared a locker room for at least a few months here.  What's the deal?  Could it be the American Bad Ass is......not?  Sawyer's brother tells a different story, that Sawyer stretched Callaway during training, and then he quit.  I'm sure the truth, as always, is somewhere in between.  But the fact is nobody has any stories of Callaway confronting Sawyer in early 1990 when he had ample opportunity to.  Honestly, I wouldn't fuck with Buzz Sawyer either.
  • This is apparently the last hurrah of J-Tex.  Gary Hart is gone and Muta is out soon. 
  • The cage is an all-black climbing cage instead of the typical diamond mesh cage.  Is that a first for Crockett/WCW?
  • Match is really nothing, more an angle than a match.  About six minutes is all it goes.  The crowd is molten for Muta when he gets in to fight Anderson, but that's about it.
  • Sting tries to climb the cage to attack the Horsemen.  Nobody clued in Doug Dillinger that this is a work, as he's just YANKING on Sting's leg to get him down.  Babyfaces appear to drag Sting away.  He gets halfway up the aisle and runs back with that moron Dillinger legit trying to waistlock him.  At some point between running and starting to climb, Sting blows out his knee and now the babyfaces are holding him up, not back.  Maybe if you're all roided up, you shouldn't be running on concrete in those early 90s dress shoes — those fuckers had zero tread — and dragging Doug Dillinger.  Just saying. 
  • Arn wins with a DDT on Dragonmaster (who was the Japanese version of Kendo Nagasaki earlier in his career) in the most anticlimactic ending you've ever seen.  Dragonmaster gets right back up and the heels just sort of mill about.
  • Flair leaves the cage and just sprints at Sting.  He tries to jump at him but legit jumps completely over the pile and almost comes down on his head.  It's amazing.  He keeps going after Sting and the faces must have eventually clued him in to the injury and it's then just a "pullapart" until the credits roll.

Overall, this was a decent show.  Nothing just offensively bad and some stuff that was above average.  The matches were kept relatively short, which is nice.  Worth a watch for historical significance.  WrestleWar 90: The Fall of Lex Luger is up next.  Preview:

• What the hell was supposed to happen in WCW's booking had Sting not gotten injured?
• The Dynamic Dudes' last stand
• Why did Dan Spivey leave?
• Oh lord oh fuck why is there a 25 minute PIllman/Zenk vs Nu Freebirds match?

 

Edited November 6 by Technico Support

[Curt McGirt]

I think this was the show where Arn told Foley "Cactus Jack, you just don't have any sense" and he responded "Yeah, but I don't have any dollars either" so Arn said "Point taken."

[Gorman]

Thoughts on Vengeance 2003

Chris Benoit battled Eddy Guerrero to determine the first WWE US champion. Poor referee Mike Chioda got clobbered three times, so he missed Rhyno turning against Benoit with the Gore to hand Eddy the championship.

Stephanie was the GM, and she battled the assistant GM that her dad picked for her, Sable. Vince also assigned A-Train to run over his daughter and give Sable the victory.

Vince was also successful in his match against Zack Gowan, who started the match by handing his prosthetic leg to the referee. Despite busting Vince WIDE open by kicking a chair into his head, Gowan whiffed on a moonsault, and Vince just pinned him.

Torrie Wilson actually made the Indecent Proposal for the Billy Gunn-Jamie Noble match, just to stop Noble from sexually harassing her on national TV. So the message was "No means no ... unless you can pin Billy Gunn," which of course, Noble did.

Taker-Cena seemed like a throwback to Taker-Angle from Fully Loaded 2000. While Cena couldn't overcome the Deadman, he did look like a future champion, just like he did in his loss to Lesnar at Backlash.  Cena wore a Larry Bird jersey from Indiana State University.

Remember when Brother Love made it to the final four of the Gimmick Battle Royale at WrestleMania X-7? Well, he made it to the final two of the APA Invitational Barroom Brawl before Bradshaw knocked him out with a beer bottle. Other brawlers included the Brooklyn Brawler (of course), Doink the Clown, and the Easter Bunny (in July).

Rey Jr. was the Cruiserweight champion, and he tried to add the WWE tag team title with Kidman, just like he did in WCW in  1999. But the World's Greatest Tag Team lived up to its name and retained the belts.

Could the Angle-Lesnar-Big Show three-way live up to the Rock-Taker-Angle three-way main event from the previous year's Vengeance? Yes! Angle is the MVP for bouncing back from neck surgery to win the title for the fourth time.

Edited November 11 by Gorman

[Hamhock]

3 hours ago, Gorman said:

Torrie Wilson actually made the Indecent Proposal for the Billy Gunn-Jamie Noble match, just to stop Noble from sexually harassing her on national TV. So the message was "No means no ... unless you can pin Billy Gunn," which of course, Noble did.

This being the WWE, it culminates on Smackdown in a bizarre series of scenes from the hotel room, with Gunn, Torrie, Noble and Nidia all in bed together.

Edited November 11 by Hamhock

[odessasteps]

Billy & Torrie & Jamie & Nidia 

[SirSmUgly]

On 11/6/2024 at 7:48 AM, Technico Support said:

 

• Oh lord oh fuck why is there a 25 minute PIllman/Zenk vs Nu Freebirds match?

 

Because until Vince Russo got there, WCW loved nothing more than taking what should be an eight-to-ten minute match and making it go fifteen-plus. 

Then Russo gets there and turns eight-to-ten minute matches into two-minute sprints and does things like have his agents cut out the whole shine part of tag matches, just leaving the FIP and hot tag parts. 

Poor old WCW. It could never get quite right. 

[Gorman]

Thoughts on SummerSlam 2003

La Resistance stayed one step ahead of the Dudley Boyz by employing Master of Disguise Rob Conway. First he posed as a US serviceman, then at SummerSlam he was a rogue camera operator who helped La Rez retain the titles.

The Undertaker vs. A-Train match stemmed from Taker having a problem with Vince for mistreating Stephanie. Um, Mr. Taker, didn't you ... kidnap Stephanie and try to marry her against her will in a dark wedding?

Sable accompanied A-Train to the ring. The announcers explained that Vince had rewarded A-Train with the sexual services of Sable. If I'm Janel Grant's lawyer, I'm writing "2003" on a blank sheet of paper and marking it as Exhibit A.

Eric Bischoff continued to be the Wile E. Coyote of WWE. He set up the Acme Rocket by bragging about sleeping with Linda McMahon. Despite Coach's help, he ended up getting beaten by Shane, stunnered by Austin, and slapped by Linda.

Kurt Angle defended the WWE title against Brock Lesnar in a WrestleMania rematch. Despite Vince's interference, Angle forced Lesnar to tap out to the ankle lock. So Angle is the MVP again.

RVD made a slight miscalculation when he suggested that Kane take off his mask. Instead of becoming more human, Kane became more of a monster. Kane won their match after giving RVD a tombstone on the ring steps.

Now it's time for Goldberg to win the World title in the Elimination Chamber, especially with Triple H coming off groin surgery, eating a superkick from HBK, and doing nothing for most of the match. Instead, HHH won with a sledgehammer shot. This was like if the Honky Tonk Man had beaten the Ultimate Warrior at the first SummerSlam 15 years earlier. 

Goldberg joined Booker and Scott Steiner as former WCW champions who failed to win the belt from Triple H.

[Technico Support]

2 hours ago, SirSmUgly said:

Because until Vince Russo got there, WCW loved nothing more than taking what should be an eight-to-ten minute match and making it go fifteen-plus. 

Then Russo gets there and turns eight-to-ten minute matches into two-minute sprints and does things like have his agents cut out the whole shine part of tag matches, just leaving the FIP and hot tag parts. 

Poor old WCW. It could never get quite right. 

Nothing beats Lance Storm's story of having his time progressively cut until he's finally being told to go home before his opponent is even in the ring.

I really am going to start writing up Wrestle War 90, it's just that the first match's participants depressed me (one genuinely decent guy who just died, one real piece of shit who died way too young, two years after the match, and one sex trafficker) and I'm also rewatching Banshee (such a great show), so that's competing for my time.

Edited November 13 by Technico Support

[Gorman]

Thoughts on Unforgiven 2003

The Dudleys won their 17th World tag team title in a handicap tables match against La Resistance and Rob Conway. They won No. 8 in WWE to go with their eight from ECW. They somehow won the WCW belts despite never setting foot in the company.

Test beat Scott Steiner to retain Stacy Keibler's managerial services and win Steiner as his "property" as well. When it comes to negative career trajectories, "WCW champion to Test's property" is tough to beat.

Randy Orton continued his "Legend Killer" run by defeating Shawn Michaels at the age of 21.  Sure, he had help from Ric Flair and a pair of brass knuckles, but it was still an impressive win. Fellow third-generation star The Rock didn't make his WWF debut until age 24.

Look, Jim Ross is being forced to fight for his announcing job ... but he's doing well! He's beating up The Coach! Maybe he won't be humiliated this time. Oh no! Chris Jericho attacked him and sent him to the unemployment line! Of all the announcers in the world, JR is the Charlie Browniest.

Lita made a triumphant return after a year out with neck surgery, teaming with Trish Stratus to beat Molly Holly & Gail Kim.  Even though Lita's moonsault was 100 percent gravity and 0 percent grace, she pinned Molly to become the top contender to the women's title.

Goldberg is the MVP for winning the World title and saving his career. Sure, it would have been better for him to win the title at SummerSlam and remain undefeated, but now the WWE had a second chance to establish Goldberg as an unstoppable World champion.

[zendragon]

Was that the Country Whipping Match? A Fat old cowboy beating down a black man?

[Gorman]

No, that was JR & The King losing to Al Snow & Coach with the Raw commentary jobs on the line. Austin booked the Country Whipping match on Raw so JR could get his job back.

[Gorman]

Thoughts on No Mercy 2003

The Baltimore fans were ready to push Chris Benoit to the top of WWE. When he put A-Train in the crossface, they rose to their feet. When he won the match with the Sharpshooter, then went even crazier.

Zack Gowan bounced back from a broken leg to beat Matt Hardy. He would have been the MVP if someone else hadn't dominated the show.

Poor Linda Miles never got a chance to be a real wrestler after winning Tough Enough. Vince McMahon took one look at her and said, "Let's put her in bondage gear and have her manage a team that treats her like a sex object." The APA looked washed up for losing to that team (The Basham Brothers).

John Cena came out in a Los Angeles Raiders Bo Jackson throwback jersey. Not only did Cena look great in a losing effort for the third time (Lesnar, Taker, and here against Angle), but half of the fans were cheering for him. It would just be a matter of time before Cena started winning big matches and championships. 

As the father of a girl, I couldn't watch the Father-Daughter I Quit match. This bout joins a short list that includes the Katie Vick segment and Over the Edge 99.

The main event of No Mercy was Lesnar-Taker again. This time it was a Biker Chain match, although they didn't say "On A Pole" in the title of the match. When Taker would go for the chain, something bad would happen. The lights went out. The FBI interfered. Finally, Vince McMahon knocked Taker off the top rope, allowing Lesnar to use the chain and win the match.

Unfortunately, Vince has to win the MVP award for controlling who is the WWE champion and who is not the Smackdown GM.

"Water is Wet" Obvious Sign of the Night: VINCE IS THE WWE

 

 

Edited November 20 by Gorman

[Firebreaker Chip]

I signed up for a month of (UK) network to watch some old nitros and the search function is so bad compared to what it used to be. You could search for the timestamps of individual matches before, now I search "Mortis" and get one random whole episode of Nitro and dozens of results about...John Morrison

And they stopped uploading WCWSN at 1994! Gah! Fuck you!!

[Dolfan in NYC]

Not really a surprise, but WWE has officially announced the WWE Network will be shut down on 12/31/2024.  

 

Everything is moving to Netflix. 

[twiztor]

well this thread had a nice long run. 

Does this go for international too? I know there were holdout countries with Peacock, but is that still an issue with Netflix?

[odessasteps]

I know Bix has been discussing on the BTS discord what countries will or won't still have a version of the Network. 

[SirSmUgly]

I thought the WWE archives were on Peacock until 2026. This is only for places like Canada that actually still have a version of the Network, right? 

[clintthecrippler]

I am not optimistic that weekly TV archives will make a jump to whoever the next U.S. provider is after the current Peacock deal expires. I am trying to binge WCCW and Mid Atlantic between now and next spring because I am truly expecting this to be my last opportunity to do so. 

I know the torrent sites will always exist but there is something to be said for (a) ease of access with a couple of button clicks on my TV and (b) even if its just one person watching at the time, someone at WWE or their official content provider getting some sort of analytics saying that anyone is watching.

Hopefully if WWE Vault on YouTube has enough interaction to remain a priority some of the archival stuff will end up there?

As for the future of this thread, maybe we turn this into a WWE Vault thread since for now random stuff does still keep turning up there?

 

[odessasteps]

I’d definitely tell people to save what they want to save if they can. 

[Technico Support]

Back on the review tip, I watched most of WrestleWar 1990 and here are some words on it so far:

• First off, god damn this era of WCW was so tag team heavy.  This show featured seven matches and five were tags.  I guess the singles division took multiple hits with:
  • Sting injured
  • Luger having to slot in for Sting
  • Muta gone
  • Pillman moving back to tags
  • Steve Williams leaving (he was set for a US title shot on this show initially)
• So the singles division is in rough shape.  When your only other one on one match on the show is Cactus vs Norman, you're in trouble.  It doesn't get any better for the next show, which is 8 matches with 5 tags, and one of the singles bouts is Ellering vs Long.  Jesus.
• Sullivan & Sawyer vs The Dynamic Dudes
  • This was a rough watch, as the match featured one decent guy who just died, one guy reputed to be a coked up all around scumbag, one guy who participated in sex trafficking, and Shane Douglas.
  • Another card goes by where tough guy Mark Callaway was on the same show as Buzz Sawyer and could have gotten his receipt for Sawyer robbing him, but never got around to it, I guess.
  • I Google to see when Sawyer died and it was two years after this show.  God damn.  32 is way too young to go.
  • I remember the finish from watching as a kid.  It was gross.  Sawyer hits his flying splash and promptly rolls his hand, absolutely mangling his wrist in the process.  He makes the cover while cradling his hand.  Oof.
• Norman (no longer the lunatic) vs Cactus Jack
  • Okay so I watched this a week or two ago and am just getting around to writing about it.  I remember nothing about this one except maybe Norman won with what would later be named the Trip to the Batcave.  So considering there's no other singles on this show outside the main, I guess Norman gets the next title shot?  Really, it should have been obvious we'd get a fuck finish in the World title match, since nobody was being built up on this card.
• Rock and Roll Express vs Midnight Express
  • I don't care if it's 1986 or 1990, Condrey or Lane.  You get a chance to watch these teams go, you sit down and do it.  Go damn.  This was a treat.
  • Fun stooging by Cornette, including a goofy faceoff with Nick Patrick.
  • Great match by two of the best teams to ever do it.  These guys could make a classic match in their sleep.  Both teams are a little older and have maybe lost a half step, but it doesn't matter at all.
  • Wikipedia tells me this was the RnRs' first higher profile match since returning to the company after being gone since 88 and working the AWA and some AJPW.
  • Cornette hits Hoot with the racket for a near fall.  The MX go for a double team flapjack but Punky breaks it up and Hoot gets an ugly rollup for the win. 
  • I just looked ahead to see what the RnRs do on the next show and accidentally saw that we get a Rotundo & Rich teamup on the card.  Fucking kill me now.
  • Thanks to Deadlock, I can't hear "Bobby Eaton" without changing it to "Bobby Eatin' da pussy."
• Chicago Streetfight: The Road Warriors vs The SkyScrapers
  • A Chicago Streetfight is like a regular streetfight, just thicker and with more sauce.
  • The Masked Skyscraper is Mike Enos, who is 6'5" and DOES THE WORD SKYSCRAPER MEAN NOTHING ANYMORE?
  • Enos is filling in for Dan Spivey who noped the fuck out of WCW.  Of note is that Enos was one of the AWA tag champs at the time.  Also of note is that the AWA was falling apart at the time.  Wikipedia tells me Spivey left over money issues and disliking the LOD, who took liberties with Mean Mark.
  • So in a real Ship of Theseus situation, the Road Warriors started their feud with "The Skyscrapers" against two completely different people than who they ended their feud with "The Skyscapers" against.  It also reminds me of the shitty MX vs MX blowoff a year prior, where Condrey left before the show, so Cornette's team got their comeuppance against Jack Victory in the most unsatisfying blowoff ever.
  • Shaving his head and fixing his teeth in the 2000s made Teddy Long look 30 years younger.
  • Hawk wears Guess jeans as all the real late 80s/early 90s tough guys...did not.  I remember leveling up from Swatch to a Guess branded watch and thought I was hot shit in 88 or 89.
  • I do applaud both teams dressing for a streetfight (though Mean Mark is dressed more specifically for a Leather Daddy Streetfight), but I do subtract points for nobody wearing kneepads over jeans.
  • Nothing match and the LOD wins with a Doomsday Device on Enos while Mean Marks says "fuck all this" and walks out.  Maskless, tuxedo-clad Doom shows up looking badass to save Teddy and brawl with the LOD.  One team ends, one team comes up.  Circle of life.
• US Tag Title: Freebirds vs Pillman and Zenk (c)
  • I forgot to mention all the faces tonight are wearing Sting black armbands like he died.
  • 'Birds come to the ring with ladies just to do a bit where they turn their back and think they're handing their jackets to the women, but they're actually handing them to Pillman and Zenk. They should have gone further and started making out.  That would have been....no?  Just me?  Okay, moving on.
  • I was worried about this match going 25 minutes but really, the first 5 are all gaga.  Still, 20 is way too long for this.
  • My god the non-Gordy Freebirds are pointless.  One chickenshit and one badass is perfect.  Instead, we get two Michael Hayeses and it's just hard to watch.
  • But god damn, Hayes' left hand is wonderful.
  • Zenk is all armdrags, armbars, and dropkicks.  More whitebread than a trip to the Schmidt's outlet.  If he hadn't been his own worst enemy, he could have made a career out of being the less flashy half of tag teams for years.
  • JR says Pillman's favorite wrestler growing up was Flying Fred Curry and there is just no fucking way.
  • I +10 most of this one as there are just so many restholds once the heat gets on Zenk. 
  • Pillman and Zenk finally win with, I think, a crossbody.  Ooof what a mess.
• Two matches to go!

 

Edited November 26 by Technico Support

[odessasteps]

I thought someone had posted the clip of Savage racing go karts with JC here a couple weeks ago, but I didn’t see it. Anyway, someone asked him about it so it was a topic on a recent podcast. 
 

Spoiler

 

 

[Gorman]

Thoughts on Survivor Series 2003

John Cena and Chris Benoit made an early bid for MVP as survivors of the Team Angle vs. Team Lesnar match. Benoit made Lesnar tap out to the Crossface, while Cena hit the FU on the Big Show. Cena wore a Joe Namath throwback jersey.

Molly Holly retained the women's title over Lita, surviving a moonsault that was 80 percent gravity and 20 percent grace.

Kane was the MVP for destroying Shane McMahon in an ambulance match and then helping Vince bury Kane's brother in the Buried Alive match.

Those weren't the only two huge downers on this show. Steve Austin lost his career when his team lost to Eric Bischoff's team. JR said twice that Austin had never been involved in a Survivor Series elimination match, when it happened just two years earlier as the WWF put the Alliance out of business.

The fans needed some good news at the end of the show, so Goldberg beat Triple H again to retain the World title. He wiped out the Evolution members with a sledgehammer and then threw it aside to put away HHH. That means Goldberg also wins the MVP award.