WWE Network Conversation

[Eivion]

1 hour ago, SirSmUgly said:

• I guess CM Punk’s old “This Fire Burns” theme is the general theme for this show, which is too bad as that song suuuuuuuucks, sorry to anyone who enjoys it. I mean, “Cult of Personality” is a super-mega-upgrade IMO (which you may agree with even if you like “This Fire Burns”).

I actually like The Fire Burns but still think it's terrible, especially compared to Cult of Personality and Miseria Cantare.

1 hour ago, SirSmUgly said:

• Melina and Morrison barge in on former handler of Norman the Lunatic and godfather of Smackdown general managership Teddy Long. They want reparations for all of the Ls they took tonight, and when Long isn’t too interested in any of that, Melina slaps him. Long's like Nah fuck this, son, you’re fired to both of them. Wow, they really shit on these two on their way out of this part of the territory, huh?

 Both were still around until 2011. I think this was just their exit from Smackdown.

1 hour ago, SirSmUgly said:

I didn’t see that Hurt Business stuff really, but I saw pics and some video and all I could think was wow, they made a black Four Horsemen, didn’t they? As a black fan, that sounds like a fever dream.

Huh, never really thought of the Hurt Business as a black Four Horsemen. They felt more badass than that. In hindsight though that probably was what they were going for at least partially. A shame it didn't last longer though Lashley has something good going on with the Street Profits right now in a similar vein.

[SirSmUgly]

w/r/t Melina and Morrison: That's what I meant by "on their way out of this part of the territory." I vaguely remember them showing up on RAW around this time. I probably could have made that more clear in my wording!

w/r/t the Hurt Business: My impression of them is facile and based on images and a few video clips - the suits, having the world title and all running together, MVP killing it in the J.J. Dillon role. But as I wasn't watching, you certainly had a more accurate impression of the group than I did.

[zendragon]

Ron Simmons would have been quite the upgrade over SID as The hoursemen's muscle

[Cobra Commander]

Ranger Ross wouldn’t have had to rob as many banks if they made him a Horseman in 1990

[Cobra Commander]

It's a Tuesday Afternoon, the weather is nice around here, it's time to trudge into another episode of...

World Championship Wrestling (11/14/1987)

Meanwhile on another show... Kendall Windham is wrestling Larry Zbyszko. Well, that's one way to cold open the show.

Tony and David alert us that all sorts of people wre here including Dr. Death and Larry Zbyszko.

Ron Simmons talks to Tony at the podium to talk about things.

Match 1: Steve "Dr. Death" Williams vs Rex King. Nice of them to let Steve Williams on this show before his Starrcade match. They talked about a pre-recorded Dr. Death promo and then no audio was played, good enough! Williams wins with the Oklahoma Stampede. His hair is unrestained this week.

Dr. Death joins Tony to talk about Barry Windham. His hair above the eyes is normal. His hair below the eyes is wild. There's probably a reservoir of good Dr. Death promos hidden somewhere but that wasn't him today.

Welcome back to the Starrcade Control Center as the very Craig Sager looking Johnny Weaver has joined Tony and Jim Crockett. Eventually we get a look into the situation between the Mighty Wilbur and Paul Jones during this segment. Holy hell, they could fit the Mighty Wilbur into a seat at the Starrcade Control Center (he doesn't actually wrestle at Starrcade but at one of the make-good axillary Starrcade night shows in North Carolina)

Match 2: Michael Hayes and Jimmy Garvin vs Eric Long and Gary Phelps. We're getting Hayes and Garvin every week, folks. Maybe Badstreet isn't far from Techwood and Hayes is available every week. So what do you think Michael Hayes BAC was when he figured out he could moonwalk in public. Meanwhile don't sleep on the fact that Precious' hair is just as 80s as Hayes and Garvin. It looks like Precious is about to talk to some goons who are about to whack Nancy Kerrigan's knee. Jimmy Garvin has shiny pants this week. Precious gets a chant as these fans are energetic this morning. Hayes wins with a running bulldog.

Hayes, Garvin, and Precious join Jimmy. They look like they're single-handedly putting a hole in the Ozone Layer with their hairsprays. Jimmy talks about his brother retaining the title and not caring who the tag team champs are because Hayes/Garvin are going for the titles.

Match 3: Rick Steiner vs Keith Steinborn. They really have unleashed the UWF guys today. That Steinerline looked rough. David Crockett is into Rick Steiner. Goofy babyface Rick Steiner seems like exactly the guy that commentator David Crockett would love. Rick Steiner wins with a belly to belly. He's technically a heel in his Starrcade match but is being traded like

THE SPAM SLAM OF THE WEEK. Which is Ron Garvin stomping a guy. Hormel is gonna demand that JCP start associating their product with actual slams.

Dusty Rhodes joins the show to talk about what's going on in the Dustyverse. They show him solo, and then fade out and fade back to Dusty with Nikita with Tony. What. Probably a good idea to have as many Nikita promos happen in the vicinity of a Dusty promo as possible? Also love the "World Six Man Tag Champion" graphic for Dusty since he has to have something under his name. Dusty has words for Lex Luger.

Match 4: Ricky Santana vs Bob Emory. Sure are seeing a lot of Ricky Santana. He wins with a top rope body press.
Ricky Santana joins David postmatch to say that the babyfaces are gonna win at Starrcade. He also speaks some Spanish.

Then Kevin Sullivan wanders into the picture to say that Ric Flair will beat Ronnie Garvin but that Dusty will beat Lex Luger. This series of Kevin Sullivan promos is going somewhere, right. Does this go directly into the Varsity Club. Sullivan also praises Dr. Death and says he'll beat Barry Windham.

Match 5: Tully and Arn vs BT Washington and El Negro. You can guess the racial background of both job guys. Arn gets the pin after a double gourdbuster on El Negro.
JJ, Arn and Tully join Tony to talk about how they'll put down the Road Warriors because they just beat a really fat job guy. Arn finishes off the promo.

I can't figure out who El Negro was.

Match 6: Ivan Koloff and Warlord vs Curtis Thompson and Max McGyver. Max got the spelling of his surname changed from McGiver. Match ends quick with the Warlord/Koloff doubleteam finisher.
Paul Jones joins Tony to talk to us about the Mighty Wilbur, who is a gutless monster. Ivan Koloff promises to send Mighty Wilbur back to California. I can kinda see Ivan Koloff's gig marks.

COLLEGE FOOTBALL SCOREBOARD IS NEXT (in the part of the show where there's no more Peacock commercial breaks)

November 14th, 1987 in College Football: #12 Auburn beat #8 Georgia, #9 Clemson beat Maryland, #4 Florida State beat Furman, #10 LSU beat Mississippi State, #3 Miami beat Virginia Tech, #7 Notre Dame beat #11 Alabama, #1 Oklahoma beat Missouri, #6 Syracuse beat Boston College. #5 UCLA beat Washington. This is the final week of TBS College Football games for the season as Florida beat Kentucky on TBS.

JJ and Lex Luger join Tony. They're trying their best to say that barring Dusty for 90 days is akin to ending his career but I guess if they went too far, it would make it obvious that Dusty's winning the title. Also, this is Starrcade in Chicago, so all the Chicago people can't win titles there.

Match 7: Lex Luger vs Tony Suber. Is it black job guy week on JCP again? I think Suber just botched being irish whipped into the corner. Lex drops Suber on the top of his shoulders trying to put him in the Rack. Then he drops an elbow and gets the pin. That was a pretty fucked up job match. Suber will get $50 for his pain and suffering. Maybe.

Ric Flair joins Tony. Nice red sweater. Remember when Ric Flair actually dressed nice. Ric is practically wearing a Bobby Knight sweater. He takes off the jacket and sweater. He repeats he was born with a golden spoon a few times. He talks about this time of free agency and working for the best. "Figure that out, Smarty". Ric is geeked onto another planet this week. He tears his shirt open.

Let's take a look at Bunkhouse Stampede. Here's an old cowboy to explain what the fuck a Bunkhouse Stampedge is while in front of a fire. I googled and Nelson Royal is the guy they entrusted to explain what the fuck this match was gonna be. This is going on for awhile. Could you believe that this event got undercut by the Royal Rumble. The Bunkhouse Stampede is coming in December (or January)

Ron Garvin is in a Canadian tuxedo this week and a "Top Gun" trucker cap. A 180 million people wear jeans in this country. They're trying their best to make Ron Garvin relatable enough to Southerners with jeans/pickup truck talk. Ron Garvin's prediction that Ric Flair can't keep up his lifestyle without the World Title was probably right through. Not sure it does Garvin any favors to have his promos air so close to Flair promos.

Match 8: Larry Zbyszko vs Ricky Nelson. Baby Doll is back and she's with Larry Zbyszko. I believe this arrangement didn't last long. Larry wins with the neckbreaker.
Larry and Baby Doll join Tony at ringside as David Crockett has wandered away. Baby Doll has a list of secrets, which is an interesting angle but doesn't go anywhere. Larry is going after Barry Windham's Western States Heritage title for some reason. Baby Doll has a very shiny jacket. Baby Doll being the CIA agent of wrestling managers did not pay off.

Match 9: Terry Taylor and Eddie Gilbert vs Trent Knight and George Fox. No prematch graphics for this one. George Fox is an Uncle Rico looking guy in orange trunks who loses to a partner-assisted Hot Shot.
Terry and Eddie join Tony at the podium. Terry has opinions about the front row fans this week and imitates Nikita Koloff. Eddie has some extra comments about the Taylor/Koloff match.

Jim Cornette and Bubba join Tony. The Midnight Express is not gonna be here this week as they're doing charity work. Stan Lane is working to supply a home of unwed mothers with more unwed mothers. Bubba's suit game is amazing. Jim wants to know if the Rock'n'Roll has the guts to throw people off of a scaffold. Ricky probably would do that.

Match 10: Barry Windham vs Cougar Jay. Nice dropkick from Windham. Barry wins with the Superplex.

Barry Windham talks to Tony. "There's never been a day in my life when I wasn't a competitor" (so far). He has words about Dr. Death and Larry Zbyszko.

Match 11: Luke Williams and Johnny Ace vs David Isley and Tommy Angel. So the Sheepherders are working under Freebird rules. Butch joins Tony on commentary. Butch won a trip to New Zealand to celebrate their UWF Tag Team title victory. There was a band playing music. The Sheepherders found Johnny Ace on the beach and they took him to New Zealand. That gutwrench suplex on a guy coming off the ropes looks neat. Luke gets the pin with a chop off the top rope. Of all the matches with Butch Miller talking nonstop, that was one of them. It's possible that gutwrench off the ropes was a fucked up powerslam. Not sure how many job guys could take that move as a gutwrench without dying.
Luke Williams has some words for the Lightning Express. Honestly the biggest difference between the Sheepherders and the Bushwhackers i've seen isn't the violence, it's the micwork. Pretty sure that the WWF people quickly decided that the Bushwhackers shouldn't actually cut good promos with the gimmick.

Ricky and Robert join Tony to talk Starrcade. Seeing how angry Ricky looks on promos, it finally makes sense that Ricky was the one turned heel when they broke up the Rock'n'Roll.

Match 12: Shaska Whatley and Tiger Conway vs The Menace and Alan Martin. Must be a light crew if the Jive Tones get a match on this show. If we use Mid-South logic, I gotta figure the Jive Tones are the standby match if they run out of matches. I think they wanted to do a double stomachbuster but they didn't. That double Russian Legsweep looked like dogcrap but they won the match with that. Tony called it a "neckbreaker".
The Jive Tones get some mic time postmatch. Shaska is talking trash on Ron Simmons, which feels like a bad idea. Since these guys don't have a Starrcade match, their promo is about Starrcade.

Only one more Saturday Night until Starrcade, folks!

I've never seen Starrcade 87 and i'll be doing that soon. I suspect that the matches will be way better than the build for the matches. I also don't recall having seen Survivor Series 87 and I might watch that too.

[Cobra Commander]

Watching a Legends of Wrestling episode about 1970s wrestling where a majority of the panel is using their ashtrays

The panel for this episode is Mean Gene as the moderator, Michael PS Hayes who is on practically every one of these episodes, Nick Bockwinkel, James J. Dillon, and Pat Patterson. (Hayes and Bockwinkel had cigars, Patterson had cigarettes in the ashtray).

This episode was released in 2010. I absolutely wasn't watching enough of the product to know that they had a Nick Bockwinkel appearance on Raw in March 2010. I checked the dates because I knew that Bock had passed by 2015 and was in rough shape but he sounds pretty good here.

Currently proposing a Legends of Wrestling episode about the Legends of Wrestling series.

[SirSmUgly]

• I didn't see Butch Reed, who somehow was a bigger heel than Dick Slater in their feud, lose the NA Championship to Slater. I found myself somehow sympathizing with Slater in that feud, so uh, yeah. It was a failure and Reed's on to the Dub after a short stop in Central States. People were talking about Central States in the main thread this month, and I feel like at some point, I will do a more extensive watch of what is, as far as I can tell, wrestling limbo. 

 

• Anyway, let's get the gold onto Jake before the company drives away its number one star by pretending that Jake's not their number one star in what seems like a pretty dumb move for a company that needs all the majorly over guys it can get during this expansion! 

 

• I love a studio or small arena show way more than a big arena show on TV, I have to say. I understand why it was right to move out of Irish McNeil's and give it a go at being a national promotion, but man, do I miss Irish McNeil's.

 

• I also miss the shitty stand-in music from the Network, weirdly enough. "Soul Man" is a fine song, but I kind of liked the shitty ersatz version of it on the Network. 

 

• I love that this company calls dude Rob Ricksteiner because they obviously misheard Rechsteiner on the phone. Also love that the new ring announcer (new because they needed to upgrade on ol' Boyd Pierce) pays homage to Pierce by botching Ricksteiner's last name and calling him "Reckensteiner." The inconsistent spelling and pronunciation of names has got to be one of my favorite dumb features of this company. 

 

• Is there a reasonable counterfactual that allows UWF to survive on a national level, specifically the oil business not going bust? I assume that JCP having an in with Ted Turner because they're already on his networks dooms the UWF in any scenario, but maybe not? 

Edited November 8, 2023 by SirSmUgly

[Cobra Commander]

Knowing what we know now, at least one of the UWF/World Class/AWA was not long for the world going into 1987. So even if the UWF had a more stable local base, would they have been able to buy one of the other also-rans before JCP did?

The Between the Sheets mention of Jarrett possibly buying the AWA, and Jarrett going on to buy World Class, inspired some of this post.

UWF was probably too close a name to the WWF to really stick for long. I wonder if they would have been better off as a brand to buy the AWA just to use the name and focus more on Mississippi plus west of the Mississippi with most of the cards in the Mid-South while hoping JCP gets the hint and focuses more on East of the Mississippi. Instead of having JCP and UWF overexpanding at the same time and JCP eating UWF.

By 1987, the AWA was pretty much spot shows in Minnesota and their Vegas residency and ESPN. Not sure if UWF buying AWA could have made them the non-WWF alternative in Chicago but.

[SirSmUgly]

I would love to read the alternate history where a Mid-South/AWA merger happens and is successful. 

 

[Cobra Commander]

Things I remembered from watching the 1987 Survivor Series:

Since i've been watching pre-Starrcade 87 JCP and i've never seen Survivor Series 87, time to watch the show that bumped Starrcade off of various cable systems.

The crowd is jazzed, the Richfield Coliseum looks like a place that hosted hockey at a time. Ricky Steamboat and Harley had some fun exchanges. Duggan/Harley eliminate themselves to continue that feud. In theory if Danny Davis was more formidable, he could have used his knowledge of refereeing to know the ways to distract refs. Someone had to take a fall on the face team and it was Brutus. Hercules seems to be in pretty good form. At one time Steamboat and Savage worked together pretty seamlessly with Steamboat slamming Herc and tagging Savage to hit the elbow. Honky ends up 3 on 1 vs 3 faces that he had wronged in 1987 and bails out instead of fully eating shit.

The "Andre actually beat Hogan at Wrestlemania" heels sound a bit election denialist but it's fun banter in this setting.

Not sure what part of the women's elimination match surprised me the most between babyface Fabulous Moolah, Moolah getting pinned relatively early, or Velvet McIntyre pinning Sherri. Not sure how many of those one-footed dropkicks were intentional. Velvet getting finished with a slingshot electric chair was fun looking (drop her chest first on the rope and then fall back to drop her on her back). Basically the build was to Glamour Girls and Bomb Angels. The Bomb Angels ruled, of course. The crowd really didn't wake up for this one until Jimmy Hart ate a dropkick just before the finish.

Gotta love that we saw Jimmy Hart changing jackets during the heel interview for the tag team match.

The tag team elimination match was a spectacle in records to what it looks like to have 18 wrestlers on the apron. Also every heel team had a different manager. That forced them to change camera angles to an overhead cam a few times. I wonder how a lumberjack match with the lumberjacks on the apron would look (like a mess probably!). Surprising how early Strike Force lost. The Bulldogs are out relatively early. They sure did spend a lot of time having the Bulldogs headbutt Haku. It took awhile but eventually a wrestler got knocked off the apron by an Irish Whip (Greg Valentine when Bret Hart whipped someone off the ropes) The final sprint involves Brunzell being in peril while on the side with a numerical advantage. The Bees and the Stallions of all teams are the Survivors after the Bees do the mask gimmick.

So far we've had 3 matches and the faces won all 3 times with a numerical advantage. The formula to create drama in these matches isn't quite there yet.

We get to see what Ted DiBiase has been doing lately as it feels like they're doing an intermission before the main event.

The Honky Tonk Man does a victory interview to fill some time which was an amazing display in heel delusion.

The Main Event started red hot. Faces get another numerical advantage for a few moments after Butch Reed departs until it turns into 3 on 2 with Muraco/Patera/Orndorff exiting. Hogan and Muraco worked well together for a moment too. Somehow Honky Tonk Man had the best Atomic Drop sell on a card where Rick Rude ate an Atomic Drop too. After one tease, we get Hogan and Andre for a few moments. Hogan then gets counted out and cries about it. We get actual drama as Bam Bam beats Bundy and Gang and then Andre beats him with his shitty suplex. Then our hero Hulk Hogan runs in to attack Andre with the title belt. Of course Jesse is completely right criticizing Hogan as a sore loser.  Hogan does a bunch of posing to end the show.

Bobby Heenan and Andre get an interview to interrupt the televised posing.

Jesse lets loose on Cleveland some during the posedown. Earlier in the show, he's told that they're in Richfield, and he says "even worse" that it's a Cleveland suburb.

So Jesse and Gorilla are in good form. At one point in the show, Jesse namedrops Dibiase in regards to "even Dave Hebner might have a price" (welll...). The show didn't really lull outside of the women's match because this was a multi-woman elimination match in 1987. For what was pretty much a gimmick show, they didn't make us sick of the format by the end of the show.

[zendragon]

They wanted the Bulldogs to get eliminated early so they could leave the dressing room before the Rougeaus got back there 

[Cobra Commander]

41 minutes ago, zendragon said:

They wanted the Bulldogs to get eliminated early so they could leave the dressing room before the Rougeaus got back there 

Jacques Rougeau knocked out Dynamite's teeth before Survivor Series 88

The 1988 Survivor Series tag match, The Rougeaus were eliminated 5 minutes into the match and the Bulldogs were eliminated 36 minutes in. That was also Dynamite's last night in the company.

The 1987 SS tag match, Rougeaus were eliminated at the 6 minute mark and Bulldogs were eliminated at the 20 minute mark. Also the Bulldogs and Rougeaus were on the same side in 1987.

[odessasteps]

I just read today about how Raymond beat the guy in the Yukon Lumberjacks (the one that was not Scott Irwin) so badly that he quit the business. He had apparently been taking liberties/picking on Armand Rougeau. 

[Cobra Commander]

among the other ring names for Lumberjack Pierre: The Russian Stomper, a name that could be used for a Russian heel or an anti-Russian babyface

fortunately Archie Gouldie probably didn't confront Pierre over the name too

I had heard from the McAdam podcasts that the WWWF tag team title formula was sort of a "form a new heel team that wins the titles, and then loses them to a new face team" revolving wheel. 

[Mister TV]

2 hours ago, Cobra Commander said:

among the other ring names for Lumberjack Pierre: The Russian Stomper, a name that could be used for a Russian heel or an anti-Russian babyface

fortunately Archie Gouldie probably didn't confront Pierre over the name too

I had heard from the McAdam podcasts that the WWWF tag team title formula was sort of a "form a new heel team that wins the titles, and then loses them to a new face team" revolving wheel. 

Pretty much, the WWWF was a if it ain’t broke don’t fix it/stick to the formula promotion. They did bring back Fuji & Tanaka, The Valiant Brothers, and The Wild Samoans for a second title run since they got so over during their first. 

[Cobra Commander]

Going deep into the Peacock for some wrestling from this month 40 years ago and it's...

World Class Championship Wrestling (11/12/1983)

We're gonna take a look at the split between Jimmy Garvin and Sunshine! We got a main event of Freebirds vs Von Erichs in a Country Whipping Match!

Match 1: Super Destroyer #2 (w/ Super Destroyer #1 and Skandor Akbar) vs Mike Reed. The Super D's are the new American Tag Team Champions too. I've probably typed this before but Mike Reed is up there for Uncle Rico looking wrestlers. For those unsure, SD #1 is Bill Irwin and SD #2 is Scott Irwin. I think that Super D big boot/kick was technically botched since he landed on top of Reed after booting him. Super D wins with the Superplex. "I've seen some suplexes but that is a suplexer" - okay Bill.

"There's some new developments in the Jimmy Garvin situation, the camp is asunder" - we see Jimmy Garvin losing the TV title to Johnny Mantell. For those who haven't seen the turn, Garvin thrown to the floor, Precious grabs Mantell's leg as he suplexes Garvin into the ring, Garvin lands on top of Mantell but Mantell flipped over for the pin anyways. Then Precious blames it on Sunshine and they fight it out only for Jimmy to take Precious' side in the dispute. Sunshine does get a shot in on Garvin before being fired.

"And then Sunshine, to get even, had a press conference, she had a lot to say, and we were there" - If you're unfamiliar, this is a promo that has been mentioned as a great promo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7g3dxSB2Uk

Bill Mercer has managed to locate Jimmy Garvin's house and he's knocking on the door. Precious slams the door but Jimmy Garvin makes it to the door. This is probably the closest that wrestling TV has come to the aesthetic of investigative reporters confronting insurance fraudsters on the news. Bill Mercer is a real journalist afterall.

Anyways, Precious doesn't technically have a name yet and it's a messy breakup of a wrestler firing his cousin to side with his wife (none of this being mentioned on TV)

Match 2: Tonga John vs Iceman King Parsons. Tonga John is from Samoa, because he wouldn't be called Tonga John if he was living in Tonga. This is an amazing hair matchup as the Tonga John (the future Barbarian) has a fro and Iceman has a few rows of hair. Tonga John sounds like the name of a restaurant that's engaged in a feud with the nearest Hawaiian restaurant in the area. Headlocks! Bearhugs! Iceman hits Tonga John hard with some chops if you wanna see the Barbarian do wobbly-leg selling. Iceman wins with the Buttbutt. I've read some stuff online about Iceman's chest tattoo. I'm not sure why he has a very Star of David tattoo but he does. This apparently came up in a story about World Class being in Beirut in the mid-80s, which feels like total bullshit unless World Class was holding sold-shows for the South Lebanon Army or something.

Fritz joins Bill Mercer for a chat. Fritz has a tape of Michael Hayes and Kerry Von Erich and Mike Von Erich. Michael Hayes shows up to distract people from Mike Von Erich's interview. Hayes rips up the beautiful ring jacket and that starts a Mike vs Michael fight. Kerry shows up to fight Hayes too. A Bald Buddy Roberts shows up and Mike Von Erich throws him to the floor. We go back to Fritz who assures us that he's been watching World Class TV post-retirement. The upcoming Kerry vs Michael Hayes match is "Loser leaves Texas for a year". Fritz will be at the upcoming card because Mike is debuting (in a match i've seen recently) and he's not gonna miss a chance to make money off of his kids.

Match 3: Hayes and Gordy vs Kerry and Kevin in a Country Whippin Match. The competitors will get leather straps which means it's time to pop the crowd as the faces strap the heels. David Manning gets a mic to try and restore some order here in this match where the competitors are supposed to hit each other with straps and occasionally wrestle. Bill Mercer welcomes Chicago and Minneapolis to World Class Wrestling as we see scenes of the competitors hitting each other on the back with straps. A hot tag to a double-strapped Kerry! The match ends with a DQ because in a match with endless strapping, it's still a DQ to toss someone over the top rope, there are rules here, this isn't Nam. This was more fun than most strap matches which usually end up going to the same spots and there's not many ways for a "touch all four corners" strap match to end. So a match where people just recklessly hit each other with belts is a lot more fun and wild than normal strap matches. Especially since the Von Erichs always worked in a way where they were hitting dudes had without having belts. Let's give these people that hate each other the means to inflict damage on each other is a solid premise for a stip match. This was 1983, they probably still let school principals hit kids with belts in elementary school in Texas. So here's a match where the hottest feud in the territory will have some strapation dudes. Bullshit finish, but it's a TV match that isn't from Reunion or a stadium, so.

And why yes, World Class was in the club of territories airing their TV on the turf of other territories before Hulk Hogan went to the WWF. Because there was a ton of that going on before 1984. So if this seemed like a sweeps week sort of show, well, this was a "hello new markets, we're here" show.

[odessasteps]

I don't know if it ever made TV, but in the Observer, she is called Moonbeam before it switches to Precious. 

I think you have the SDs mixed up. Scott was the SD before there were 2 of them and Scott is one of the people credited with "inventing" the superplex (along with Orton and I think one other person). 

[Gorman]

15 hours ago, Cobra Commander said:

Things I remembered from watching the 1987 Survivor Series:

The crowd is jazzed, the Richfield Coliseum looks like a place that hosted hockey at a time. 

We were jazzed! The Richfield Coliseum didn't have a hockey team at that time, but we did before (Crusaders of the WHA and Barons of the NHL) and after (Lumberjacks of the IHL).

[Cobra Commander]

3 hours ago, Gorman said:

We were jazzed! The Richfield Coliseum didn't have a hockey team at that time, but we did before (Crusaders of the WHA and Barons of the NHL) and after (Lumberjacks of the IHL).

I also figure that the indoor soccer team in that arena had a layout which kept the hockey boards up

[Cobra Commander]

Going back 30 years to the WWF's other weekly show

WWF Superstars (11/13/1993)

We're in Burlington, Vermont this week. Vince and Jerry are totally not in front of a green screen. Randy Savage has been barred from the broadcast booth by Jack Tunney. Could Macho Man replace Tatanka at the Survivor Series? Speaking of being barred, we're only about 2 weeks away from Lawler being disappeared for a few months.

We open with Men on a Mission rapping to the very white residents of Vermont. Men on a Mission are taking on Iron Mike Sharpe and Chuck Greenman. Iron Mike appears to be in fine form for being very verbal. Lex Luger will be facing Pierre on Raw this week. Nice running hand attack by Mabel to knock down Greenman. Mo pins Greenman with a running elbow drop.

Face to Face with Joe Fowler! The Survivor Series is the only Thanksgiving Eve Tradition worth waiting for. Wednesday Night, November 24th! Bret Hart and his brothers takes on Jerry Lawler and his unknown knights. Jerry Lawler and Bret Hart join us in a split-screen. Bret said the hardest part of this was picking 3 brothers (I'm guessing they weren't gonna let Smith Hart work in the WWF in 1993). Jerry Lawler responds with a Family Feud survey joke. So much build for a match that's about to get changed.

Bret Hart! I R S! Next week on WWF Superstars. That's a match that they're putting on TV and hyping with a Lord Alfred Hayes narration. Guess we'll get a promo about Bret Hart abusing family tax credits from IRS.

Next up it's Ludvig Borga taking on Dan Dubiel. Jim Cornette has a split-screen promo that doesn't show Jim on-screen but shows Yokozuna and the Quebecers (TV magic!). This Burlington Arena is a nice looking building (Wikipedia says it's been deemed unsafe since 2016), similiar to the arena in Lowell, MA. Ludvig Borga gets the win with the Torture Rack.

Let's go to IRS playing the WWF Royal Rumble video game!

The All-Americans (Lex Luger and the Steiner Brothers) have arrived in the arena to announce the replacement for Tatanka. Howard Finkel is interviewing them, which doesn't feel like something Howard Finkel did too often. Tatanka will be at the Survivor Series in spirit (did he die, Lex?). The new 4th man in the All-Americans is the American Hero, the Undertaker! The crowd goes wild! The Undertaker is standing with these All-Americans because they're standing up for America. The Undertaker has a flag sowed into his coat! And it's not the Gadsden flag! (it's a Betsy Ross flag). The Foreign Fanatics have shown up to look angry at these developments! Well, they're amping up this main event with a few weeks left.

We come back to see Bastion Booger walking but Doink shows up on TV monitors to taunt him. Bastion eventually makes it to the ring for this Bastion Booger vs Joe Brenan match. Booger wins quick with his crotch drop. Then Booger eats some stuff. We can only guess what Mike Shaw did during his interview for this company.

Hey it's J-e-double f, J-a-double r-e-double t rolling through the streets of Nashville. The Ryman is run down with graffiti on it! Country Music is corrupt! Conway Twitty is dead! (topical!) George Jones' career is dead! The Undertaker is dead! When he's done, they're gonna rename the WWF to Global Force Wrestling (oh, they'll call it the Double J F). Don't worry, they got 2 years out of this gimmick, and then brought it back for a few minutes later!

Our main event this week is for the Intercontinental Title, Razor Ramon defends against Rick Martel. This is a rematch from the match where Ramon won the title. Burlington's not far from Quebec. Rick Martel jumps Razor when he's hanging off his chains. Welcome to life as a babyface, Razor. The Ref stops Martel from using a chair for a second but Martel jams the chair into Razor's knee behind the ref's back. Rick Martel working the leg to prepare for his finish, which works the lower back. Rick Martel uses the spinning toe hold! Harvey Wippleman wanders out for some reason! We go to a commercial break! We resume with both guys back in the ring. This Burlington Arena really has the feel of "let's find larger versions of the Manhattan Center". Harvey distracts Razor from using the Razor's Edge and Martel takes back over. An Atomic Drop on the floor to knock the heels into each other, don't see that often anymore! That leads to a countout victory for Razor. And on checking how much time is left in the episode, this isn't the last match of the show. Rick Martel and Harvey Wippleman come to blows outside the ring and Adam Bomb comes out to defend Harvey. Then Diesel comes out to intervene. Followed by IRS. What a weird heel team. Eventually Rick Martel calms down and the heels are happy again.

Survivor Series Report with Todd Pettengill! Man that file photo of Keith Hart is amazing looking. Bret Hart makes a Family Feud Survey reference in his promo. We get a rundown of the Survivor Series card. Jim Cornette gets a brief promo for the Smoky Mountain Tag Team title match.

Lord Alfred Hayes narrates another promo for an upcoming Bret Hart match has he will be facing Yokozuna on November 21st on the Survivor Series Showdown.

Diesel is in action against Chaz Ware. Diesel wins quick with a right hand. Kevin Nash just wandering on his own because Shawn Michaels is gone for 2 months.

Joe Fowler again! this company has such a void with Mean Gene gone. Johnny Polo and Jim Cornette do a tandem promo and we get to see Jim Cornette as the more restrained dresser in a promo for once. Joe Fowler has the look a guy who got bounced from his last news anchor job and is looking to make ends meet.

Lex Luger vs Pierre, this Monday on Raw! Promotional Consideration paid for by the WWF's video game! Bret Hart vs IRS next week! Bam Bam is in action!

We get promos from IRS and Bret Hart. IRS doesn't make any tax references! Bret Hart gets a third promo in an hour-long show! Jerry Lawler points out that Bret is doing a bunch of stuff before he faces Lawler and his knights and that he'll make mincemeat out of Bret (unless something happens before then!)

Well, the late 1993 WWF B-Show show is an experience. And they have a 1992-1997 run of Superstars if you want to see some squash matches and things that didn't happen on Raw.

[Gorman]

3 hours ago, Cobra Commander said:

I also figure that the indoor soccer team in that arena had a layout which kept the hockey boards up

The Cleveland Force! They actually drew some good crowds, and they would darken the arena while the fans waved light sabers.

[SirSmUgly]

The Owen Hart heel tease is so good that it almost doesn't matter that Lawler gets replaced with Michaels because of the former's, uh, let's say legal troubles.

This is the SurSer with MoM and the Bushwhackers dressing up as Doink, so I'm pretty sure the Harts vs. Michaels and Lawler's Knights match is the only good thing about the show, IIRC. Even as a kid, I got this tape from Blockbuster or Hollywood Video or wherever exactly once and didn't feel the need to do a tape transfer. 

[Cobra Commander]

Basically the HBK and his Knights vs the Harts match is carried hard by Bobby Heenan's last great performance before leaving the WWF

I guess they can be forgiven for almost doing "Lawler and partners vs a babyface and partners" Survivor Series match in back to back years because they didn't have Lawler in the match for 1993.

I'm guessing the alternate universe match if HBK didn't get suspended would have had HBK in the elimination match instead of Martel so that it's Razor/Kid/Perfect but not really because he'll dip out/Marty vs Shawn/Diesel/IRS/Adam Bomb. Because I think Martel just disappeared for long periods of time in the WWF after 1992-ish.

[SirSmUgly]

That might just have been Heenan's last great performance period. Not sure he had one in WCW. 

Edited November 9, 2023 by SirSmUgly

[Cobra Commander]

I don't know exactly when Bobby went directly into "just cashing checks" mode but it was probably sometime in like 96/97. He never really had a good babyface announcer to bounce off of in WCW (and then he grew to hate Schiavone) and seemingly his best work involved being able to bounce things off of a babyface color commentator like Dusty. But NWO era was him just doing his own thing and filling a chair.

One thing I didn't note in my post about that 1993 Superstars episode. I'm pretty sure Vince was in the exact same suit during the open that he was wearing for his USWA heel appearances that were going on at this time.