UFC 239: Jones vs. Santos (7/6/2019) - Las Vegas, NV (T-Mobile Arena)

[Elsalvajeloco]

5 minutes ago, OSJ said:

Not a bad idea by any means. A couple of months of having his dinners thru a straw might give Luke a new perspective on things.

I wouldn't say Luke needs to retire, but he strikes me as a guy who is deeply into himself and not really all into fighting MMA. He was a guy blessed with natural gifts (a pretty good grappler who is super strong), but as he learned to utilize those gifts, he became so much of a frontrunner. If he isn't dominating from the get go, he looks absolutely puzzled. I will grant him a my bad against Bisping at UFC 199. However, he fought someone like Yoel Romero who feels like he is one of those fighters who is just inevitable. I dunno who to compare him to especially in the Rockhold fight, but maybe Golovkin? Welterweight and junior middleweight Tommy Hearns? Julian Jackson? Luke Rockhold was doing everything but rolling koppu kicks and enziguris. Romero was not discouraged in the least bit. You never seen someone who just didn't give a fuck. It felt like a matter of when Romero was going to knock him out and not if. That happened. So going up to 205, he is giving up all those gifts. It ain't no more Lyotos or Tim Boetschs you can just outmuscle and beat down. As soon as he grabbed Blachowicz in that clinch and just couldn't move him, I knew it was going to end badly for him. He was throwing these ugly overhand lefts and missed by miles. If he is getting melted by someone who came into the UFC as a grappler, he would get demolished even quicker by an Alonzo Menifield or Johnny Walker. Michal Oleksiejczuk is probably another guy he would have serious problems with because that guy can throw with some heat. He came up to 205 at the wrong time. I know he wants to be in prime position to challenge for the belt and trash talking would help that, but he would never ever be able to put together a run like he did previously before challenging Weidman. People know he is super vulnerable and all you need to do is touch him one good time.

[Elsalvajeloco]

 

[OSJ]

4 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

 

Well, there's always Double Diamond and Disco Party....

[OSJ]

7 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

I would not have been mad if Santos had got the decision. Jon looked for that high kick way too much and just was waiting for Marreta to give it to him.

Santos biggest problem was that the rounds he won were not consecutive (and he wasn't the Champ, who is going to get just a wee bit of favoritism or even a lunatic decision. The truest adage in MMA is that in a championship you do not let it go to the judges. Funny things can happen, (and I don't mean "funny ha-ha", I mean "funny peculiar" or "funny X-Files level of conspiracy. bullshit", or "funny as in random baboon given scorecard" levels of incompetence.

Jones looked beatable last night, but I think that was a temporary fluke that will be patched up in short order. As you've commented, he's the most dynamic, adaptable fighter that we're ever likely to see. I don't think his next fight will be anything resembling his performance last night. He won rounds 3 & 4 convincingly and I feel he got the Champion's Edge in Rd 2. Someone will beat him sooner or later, but I'd be hard pressed to name names in the current climate. 

The thing is consecutive rounds won always look more impressive . Just like baseball wherein a pitcher winning four twenty-game seasons in a row looks much better than a colleague with the same number of wins spread out over say ten different seasons. Same with hitters, probably the main reason my man Darrell Evans isn't in the HOFr is that he great years were spread out all over his career. It's a silly perception, but to not acknowledge it doesn't really give us a complete picture. I think that the guy that understood this best of all was probably Floyd Mayweather. 

[OSJ]

7 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

I would not have been mad if Santos had got the decision. Jon looked for that high kick way too much and just was waiting for Marreta to give it to him.

Santos biggest problem was that the rounds he won were not consecutive (and he wasn't the Champ, who is going to get just a wee bit of favoritism or even a lunatic decision. The truest adage in MMA is that in a championship you do not let it go to the judges. Funny things can happen, (and I don't mean "funny ha-ha", I mean "funny peculiar" or "funny X-Files level of conspiracy. bullshit", or "funny as in random baboon given scorecard" levels of incompetence.

Jones looked beatable last night, but I think that was a temporary fluke that will be patched up in short order. As you've commented, he's the most dynamic, adaptable fighter that we're ever likely to see. I don't think his next fight will be anything resembling his performance last night. He won rounds 3 & 4 convincingly and I feel he got the Champion's Edge in Rd 2. Someone will beat him sooner or later, but I'd be hard pressed to name names in the current climate. 

The thing is consecutive rounds won always look more impressive . Just like baseball wherein a pitcher winning four twenty-game seasons in a row looks much better than a colleague with the same number of wins spread out over say ten different seasons. Same with hitters, probably the main reason my man Darrell Evans isn't in the HOFr is that he great years were spread out all over his career. It's a silly perception, but to not acknowledge it doesn't really give us a complete picture. I think that the guy that understood this best of all was probably Floyd Mayweather. 

[The Natural]

6 hours ago, OSJ said:

Not a bad idea by any means. A couple of months of having his dinners thru a straw might give Luke a new perspective on things.

When Luke Rockhold gets KO'd, he does it good and proper. See Belfort, Bisping, Romero and Błachowicz. I think the same about Overeem by Shogun, Bigfoot and Ngannou.

[The Natural]

Savage. 

[The Natural]

[Elsalvajeloco]

6 hours ago, OSJ said:

Santos biggest problem was that the rounds he won were not consecutive (and he wasn't the Champ, who is going to get just a wee bit of favoritism or even a lunatic decision. The truest adage in MMA is that in a championship you do not let it go to the judges. Funny things can happen, (and I don't mean "funny ha-ha", I mean "funny peculiar" or "funny X-Files level of conspiracy. bullshit", or "funny as in random baboon given scorecard" levels of incompetence.

Jones looked beatable last night, but I think that was a temporary fluke that will be patched up in short order. As you've commented, he's the most dynamic, adaptable fighter that we're ever likely to see. I don't think his next fight will be anything resembling his performance last night. He won rounds 3 & 4 convincingly and I feel he got the Champion's Edge in Rd 2. Someone will beat him sooner or later, but I'd be hard pressed to name names in the current climate. 

The thing is consecutive rounds won always look more impressive . Just like baseball wherein a pitcher winning four twenty-game seasons in a row looks much better than a colleague with the same number of wins spread out over say ten different seasons. Same with hitters, probably the main reason my man Darrell Evans isn't in the HOFr is that he great years were spread out all over his career. It's a silly perception, but to not acknowledge it doesn't really give us a complete picture. I think that the guy that understood this best of all was probably Floyd Mayweather. 

If you go back and watch Marreta-Blachowicz from the Prague card, the first two rounds were as contentious as some of the rounds in this fight except Jon was more active than either guy in that fight prior the round where the finish happened. With or without the injury, at light heavyweight, he will rush in every now and then with a wild flurry but he isn't going to risk getting knocked out himself. He will try to land heavy low kicks and kicks to the body. If this was Marreta earlier in his career, Jon would have landed that high kick clean and we will be talking about whomever Jon is suppose to fighting next instead. You need to generate power from your legs to get knockouts with your fists, but I don't think Marreta was really worried about that. If the KO comes, it comes. I think that's what exacerbated the unevenness of the fight. Jon got hit solidly numerous times (there are pictures out there of Jon getting the funny "got hit the face and the energy is transferring through my entire head" thing), but by round 4 and 5, Jon wasn't really worried about getting knocked by what Marreta was throwing. If a guy is that dangerous, even on one bad wheel, he is not going to be advancing like that. If I'm Greg Jackson, Wink, or Gibson, I'm telling him you already spent 2 or 3 rounds breaking him down and he ain't hurt you yet with a punch. I'm not trying to quote Rocky Balboa or anything, but go for it. Marreta was reacting to EVERYTHING. If you want that high kick, you have to nail him to the body. His hands were low, but he was looking high kicks and moving in a way where Jon would have to reach with it even with Jon's long ass legs. That's why a number of those kicks were glancing and barely off. He was hurting Marreta everytime he was throwing those oblique kicks or kicks to the thigh (and checking those kicks), but Marreta was willing to concede potential further damage to his legs in effort to not get KO'd himself. So in essence, you have a fight where one guy (Jon Jones) will allow his opponent to rush in every now and then and one guy (Marreta) who will allow his opponent to take out his legs because he feels like he can take the pain. It's like some weird 60s/70s pro wrestling psychology and storytelling. It made the fight really interesting, but it was strange imo. That's why I'm not that high on a rematch right away. The mentalities and circumstances in this fight make it very hard for it to happen again.

[The Natural]

 

Edited July 8, 2019 by The Natural

[Elsalvajeloco]

38 minutes ago, The Natural said:

 

Masvidal learned that from his coach Paulino Hernandez.

Paulino Hernandez is also the longtime coach for Yoel Romero.

[Execproducer]

1 hour ago, The Natural said:

 

[The Natural]

NSFW.

Edited July 8, 2019 by The Natural

[The Natural]

 

[supremebve]

I think the Luck Rockhold thing is less glass jaw, less not being strong enough for 205, and much much more of him having no anticipation for strikes whatsoever.  He isn't getting knocked out by glancing blows, or getting taken down and beaten up, he's getting toasted by huge power shots that he wasn't even planning on defending.  It's like he forgets his opponents have two hands.  He had no clue that punch was coming.  He's standing straight up, with his chin in the air, hands down, no head movement, no footwork, like a deer in the headlights as if Blachowicz had no way to hurt him.  He has all the physical gifts, his offense, especially his top-position grappling is outstanding, but his striking defense is not even bad, it's nonexistent.  

[Elsalvajeloco]

48 minutes ago, supremebve said:

I think the Luck Rockhold thing is less glass jaw, less not being strong enough for 205, and much much more of him having no anticipation for strikes whatsoever.  He isn't getting knocked out by glancing blows, or getting taken down and beaten up, he's getting toasted by huge power shots that he wasn't even planning on defending.  It's like he forgets his opponents have two hands.  He had no clue that punch was coming.  He's standing straight up, with his chin in the air, hands down, no head movement, no footwork, like a deer in the headlights as if Blachowicz had no way to hurt him.  He has all the physical gifts, his offense, especially his top-position grappling is outstanding, but his striking defense is not even bad, it's nonexistent.  

I think that's what he thought. He spent most of week save for a question or two talking about challenging for the LHW title instead of Jan Blachowicz. Jon tweeted yesterday evening that Luke was talking trash to him after the morning weigh ins on Friday. I don't think Luke was looking past him as much as Luke is a bit delusional. That's why I said he is a guy way into himself and not so much fighting. Alan Jouban is a model, but he still works extremely hard in the gym. Even though Rockhold has a laundry list of injuries (and he came into this with a leg injury and recovering from a staph infection), his biggest ailment has been himself. I think he loves the spotlight that comes from winning fights and not so much training and scouting opponents. After the Bisping fight, he took his precious time coming back. I mean that's certainly all fine because concussions really aren't anything to play with when it comes to your health. Plus, again, he likely was dealing with other injuries. That was probably the right call. However, he didn't seem all that interested coming back and we all know the UFC was likely offering fights in the interim. It reminds me of Tim Kennedy after the Yoel Romero fight. I think with Kennedy, the fighter union stuff was a smokescreen. He was way too much into trying to find Hitler's remains than actually fighting again. Rockhold doesn't really give a shit about fighting people like Jan Blachowicz anymore. He thinks he can treat everyone like he did during his run to the title. He probably did what a lot of these guys do. They asked him if he wanted to fight Blachowicz, looked him up on Sherdog, saw he was coming off a knockout loss, accepted the fight, and just went to camp. It would be different if he didn't have to actually get in the octagon to fight and was one of these fans or writers who don't know jackshit really about MMA. However, he actually has to fight. I think getting beat up everyday by Cain Velasquez in the gym when he was starting to become someone in Strikeforce and then the Vitor loss knowing Vitor was on TRT gave him the motivation and hunger to want to compete. Now, he already has been champ and he makes money modeling and whatnot. Getting knocked out and humiliated is not enough to deter him from being egoistic. He's going to be presumptuous he can handle anybody not named Jon Jones. I think his own endgame was beat Jan, beat one more guy, and then hold up the UFC for money to fight Jon Jones likely figuring it would be a big grudge match w/ the storyline being Luke avenging his AKA teammate Daniel Cormier. They fold and give it to him (the UFC wouldn't do that before the ESPN deal so he would've never got pass this part anyway) and he makes a big payday to get roasted by Jon Jones before retiring. The problem is no matter how much better Jon is than everyone else, the guys below Jon are still very much real fighters. Luke was talking shit about Anthony Smith...I mean Anthony didn't look great against Gus before he eventually won. However, Anthony smoking Luke Rockhold wouldn't shock me. Keep in mind, Anthony Smith was just a guy in Strikeforce and Luke's venom towards him was likely for that reason. Luke would go into that fight thinking Anthony is the same green guy from Strikeforce and then mentally fold because Anthony is super tough and hard to finish. You would say that wouldn't happen coming off this loss, but look how this fucker fought Blachowicz coming off the Romero loss. When Luke finds out you're a real fighter and fights aren't fought on paper, it's way too late. Javy Mendez and Bob Cook have to have a coming to Jesus type intervention with this dude. If he doesn't retire, it can't continue on this way.

[Elsalvajeloco]

 

[Craig H]

Holy shit.

[The Natural]

Wow. Makes Thiago Silva's performance even more impressive with that amount of damage done to his knee. Fuck.

[The Natural]

[The Natural]

 

[AxB]

Waited six days to watch for free, and managed to stay spoiler free the whole way. Then gave up and started reading the thread when the main event was started, because Jones is inevitable. Feels like both Rockhold and Jones looked past their opponents (and maybe Askren did as well LOL), but Jon Jones being Jon Jones got away with it. He should steal Rocky Graziano's autobiography title. Good show though, everything up to the main event was pretty incredible.

[The Natural]

Ben Askren's taken so much damage in his last two UFC fights. Askren got slammed by Robbie Lawler in the opening seconds of their fight followed by a barrage of punches, I thought Askren was briefly out from. Ben Askren then gets KTFO by Jorge Masvidal's flying knee, he's stiff as a board with two brutal punches as followups. Fastest UFC KO ever.

I was trying to think of a fighter who's had an amount of punishment in back to back UFC fights. I came up with Robbie Lawler vs. Rory MacDonald and Carlos Condit.

Edited July 13, 2019 by The Natural

[Elsalvajeloco]

Also, Jahvid Best getting the first of several concussions that derailed his playing career doing a flying swanton into the endzone proves you don't need to add anymore danger to sports than what's already there.

[The Natural]

Fair play to how Ben Askren's taken the loss unlike Ronda Rousey.