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Elsalvajeloco

UFC 197: Jones vs. St. Preux (4/23/2016) - Las Vegas, NV (MGM Grand Garden Arena)

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15 minutes ago, Casey said:

Who is, though? That was awful.

The one time I'm glad friend brought the fight

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All the Hogan and Warrior references that Cormier made in this fight and I am guessing he was talking about 1998 Halloween Havoc based on the performance.

 I thought OSP won the 2nd round and it kind of looked like he had some confidence in him.  Then came out in the 3rd and did absolutely nothing with as little effort as possible.  As if just making to the 3rd round with Jones was a major accomplishment.

 

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I think Ovince may have won 30 seconds of the fight combined.

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Someone get Bones some coke. Holy shit was that boring.

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I don't think it was any worse than the Rashad fight. Rashad basically spent the back half of that fight just trying to stay upright.

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Looks like if DC gets cleared on Monday, the rematch with Jon Jones will be at UFC 200.

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FWIW, Sergio and Anthony have the same number of UFC wins (5). 

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Brett Okamoto ‏@bokamotoESPN  1m1 minute ago

Dana White tells me if Jon Jones is healthy and Daniel Cormier is cleared on an MRI on Monday, they will headline 200.

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This was Jones' tune-up fight so it's good he had it.

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Think about it though...what was Daniel Cormier going to do differently than he did at UFC 182?

Jon Jones lifted up OSP in the 5th round like he was a tiny child. 

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Whatever positive Cormier had over Jones was probably gone once Jon got the fight with OSP and was able to shake some rust off.  

Thing that sucks the most is no matter what happens we are going get Jones vs Cormier 3 because of their build up.  It is the male version of Rousey vs Tate

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Bones needs to stop the power lifting stat. He was slow and sloppy. DC would have mopped the place up with this version of Jones.

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No way he wouldn't have. That version of Jon still beats DC no worse than 49-46 on the scorecards.

This narrative needs to stop now.

Daniel Cormier's game relies solely on slamming and suplexing dudes he is much stronger than. Did OSP do that last night? Nope. Actually, the inverse happened as Jon almost slammed him through the cage in the fifth round. We also know that Jon is much stronger than DC and is able to soundly shut down his takedowns. This was BEFORE he did decide to become Mr. Olympia.

DC also uses the cage to dirty box the shit out of people. Did OSP do that last night? Nope, he actually didn't have anything remotely for Jon except trying to not get elbowed in the face from 15 different angles.

If DC is a better striker than you and can crack your chin, he will do that. What did OSP do last night? He landed like 5 body kicks and 3 1-2s. This was all the offense he had in a 25 minute fight. Over five 5 minute rounds, he had that much offense. On top of that, he got his arm broken midway through the fight and decided to go into "don't get killed" mode. If this was football, OSP's strategy would be to have 3 guys on the LOS (just because you have to have 3) and have 8 defensive backs on his own twenty yard line. He wasn't trying to do anything to force Jon's hand.

Lack of entertainment value (which I put mostly on OSP) does not mean that 80% Jon Jones would not kick everyone's ass from 185 to heavyweight. That's enough to beat everyone. This is still Jon Jones.

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18 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

No way he wouldn't have. That version of Jon still beats DC no worse than 49-46 on the scorecards.

This narrative needs to stop now.

Daniel Cormier's game relies solely on a slamming and suplexing dudes he is much stronger than. Did OSP do that last night? Nope. Actually, the inverse happened as Jon almost slammed him through the cage in the fifth round. We also know that Jon is much stronger than DC and is able to soundly shut down his takedowns. This was BEFORE he did decided to become Mr. Olympia.

DC also uses the cage to dirty box the shit out of people. Did OSP do that last night? Nope, he actually didn't have anything remotely for Jon except trying to not get elbowed in the face from 15 different angles.

If DC is a better striker than you and can crack your chin, he will do that. What did OSP do last night? He landed like 5 body kicks and 3 1-2s. This was all the offense he had in a 25 minute fight. Over five 5 minute rounds, he had that much offense. On top of that, he got his arm broken midway through the fight and decided to go into "don't get killed" mode. If this was football, OSP's strategy would be to have 3 guys on the LOS (just because you have to have 3) and have 8 defensive backs on his on twenty yard line. He wasn't trying to do anything to force Jon's hand.

Lack of entertainment value (which I put mostly on OSP) does not mean that 80% Jon Jones would not kick everyone's ass from 185 to heavyweight. That's enough to beat everyone. This is still Jon Jones.

Yeah, I think I agree with everything said here.  I'd also have to say that we also shouldn't downplay OSP's durability, because he took some really big shots in that fight.  I know he ate a couple of headkicks and a spinning elbow that would have knocked out just about anyone else.  Jones didn't look as good as he had in the past offensively, but he really didn't get hit with anything big, nor did OSP really have any answers for what he was doing.  It was kind of a boring fight, but it was still dominant in a way that didn't make me think anyone could beat him.

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Much of OSP's strategy was "Jon isn't trying to dislocate my kneecap with oblique kicks right now so I guess I should try to punch him".

OSP landed one good right hand square on the chin, and Jon just ate that shit and kept pushing forward.

As I said in the UFC 182 event thread, you're going to need more than 3 or 4 good strikes to beat Jon Jones. You need to win rounds. Right now, I don't see anyone being able to do that.

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Maybe it's injuries.  Maybe it's cycling off something, but Pettis just looked so much slower than usual last night.  Pretty much every big move he tried he missed.  Granted, Barboza is good at fighting at distance and being a moving target, but Pettis was a step behind and whenever he would throw something Barboza already got in and out.

Pettis used to be able to do creative stuff that no one else was and land it.  Now he can't.  Now he spends a whole fight looking like he's waiting for some perfect opening that never happens.  While that happens, his other opponent is doing stuff to score point. 

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Between the LHW and heavyweight divisions, who has the best chance of beating Jon Jones? Rumble landing a few big shots? Jones is so long that he has at least a 4" reach advantage on the top 5 heavyweights (incredible). I don't think he'd beat him, but I'd like to see Stipe fight Jones regardless of how his title challenge plays out. I love Werdum, but his stand up is still pretty sloppy and he'd get eaten alive by Jones. The Reem would have a huge weight advantage but no way...

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9 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

Maybe it's injuries.  Maybe it's cycling off something, but Pettis just looked so much slower than usual last night.  Pretty much every big move he tried he missed.  Granted, Barboza is good at fighting at distance and being a moving target, but Pettis was a step behind and whenever he would throw something Barboza already got in and out.

Pettis used to be able to do creative stuff that no one else was and land it.  Now he can't.  Now he spends a whole fight looking like he's waiting for some perfect opening that never happens.  While that happens, his other opponent is doing stuff to score point. 

I think part of that may play into it, but I believe it's mostly Pettis buying into his own hype. When you're fighting in the most talent laden division, you better fight every round hard. I think most of us can tell when someone isn't able to pull the trigger. Pettis just looked like a man looking for one big move to end Barboza's night. Barboza was just eating him up. He made both of his legs look two different shades of another color. I think Anthony's road to the title and what he did after capturing the title tells the story of his career. I don't think Pettis is a frontrunner or anything, but he is looking to make everything into a showcase for his talents. When you get to a certain level (especially at lightweight), those showcases are going to be few and far between. I think there are a number of fighters at 155 who Pettis would utterly destroy, but what's the likelihood of Pettis regularly fighting those fighters unless he is in a situation where he is 0-3 in his last three. He wins an easy rebound fight, but what next? Is he going to learn from those three fights or does he believe he is "back"?

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32 minutes ago, Oyaji said:

Between the LHW and heavyweight divisions, who has the best chance of beating Jon Jones? Rumble landing a few big shots? Jones is so long that he has at least a 4" reach advantage on the top 5 heavyweights (incredible). I don't think he'd beat him, but I'd like to see Stipe fight Jones regardless of how his title challenge plays out. I love Werdum, but his stand up is still pretty sloppy and he'd get eaten alive by Jones. The Reem would have a huge weight advantage but no way...

I think that fact that Jon has Greg Jackson (and Izzy Martinez) in his corner makes me believe that they don't even fool around with Rumble on the feet. I see Jon putting Anthony against the fence and wearing him out. I am not ruling out that Jon might take a couple punches from Rumble, but I see Rumble overreaching on some of his strikes. Jon can still reach him from halfway across the cage and that's what will make much of what Rumble is trying to do obsolete. Once Jon gets him down, there is nothing much good for Rumble that could happen from there.

With that said, Rumble has a better shot than almost anyone at HW. I think the bricked up Jon Jones people were expecting to show up last night would be the one you see at heavyweight.

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13 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

I think part of that may play into it, but I believe it's mostly Pettis buying into his own hype. When you're fighting in the most talent laden division, you better fight every round hard. I think most of us can tell when someone isn't able to pull the trigger. Pettis just looked like a man looking for one big move to end Barboza's night. Barboza was just eating him up. He made both of his legs look two different shades of another color. I think Anthony's road to the title and what he did after capturing the title tells the story of his career. I don't think Pettis is a frontrunner or anything, but he is looking to make everything into a showcase for his talents. When you get to a certain level (especially at lightweight), those showcases are going to be few and far between. I think there are a number of fighters at 155 who Pettis would utterly destroy, but what's the likelihood of Pettis regularly fighting those fighters unless he is in a situation where he is 0-3 in his last three. He wins an easy rebound fight, but what next? Is he going to learn from those three fights or does he believe he is "back"?

Honestly I think his biggest issue is that he isn't aggressive enough.  He didn't lose last night because he doesn't have the talent to beat Edson Barboza he lost, because he let Barboza get comfortable and run his game on him.  All of his recent loses are because he let his opponents do whatever they want.  He tries to beat his opponents while fighting their fight, which never going to be a losing strategy more often than not. 

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1 minute ago, supremebve said:

Honestly I think his biggest issue is that he isn't aggressive enough.  He didn't lose last night because he doesn't have the talent to beat Edson Barboza he lost, because he let Barboza get comfortable and run his game on him.  All of his recent loses are because he let his opponents do whatever they want.  He tries to beat his opponents while fighting their fight, which never going to be a losing strategy more often than not. 

The thing is...what was he going to do to change Barboza's direction? It's not like Barboza started to really ramp it up in round 2. He was getting at Pettis from the very beginning. This dude is throwing lightning fast leg kicks. I don't think anyone wants to get hit with those. So if anything, Pettis had to be more aggressive so the judges wouldn't swayed by that even though Barboza was also busting him up with left hooks.

TBH I think Felder played more into Barboza's hands than Pettis and still ended up representing himself way better than Pettis. Pettis was looking for one big punch and/or high kick and was just shell-shocked.

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Johnson's clinch game was on pont. Not many people in UFC still use the clinch. Glad that someone is utilizing it more.

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Johnson's movement is incredible.  Not a single think he does looks wasted.

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