WWE Network Conversation

[zendragon]

That god aweful Team Piper segment in WCW goes on so long I half expect him to demand Tenta put the glasses on

[Cobra Commander]

If they had put more thought into team Piper then it could have been a team of old dudes who feuded with Piper many years ago. Roddy Piper is the captain of a team with Greg Valentine, Chavo Guerrero Sr, and Wahoo McDaniel

[Curt McGirt]

19 hours ago, Cobra Commander said:

I ponder to myself if getting kicked by a barefoot Kevin is supposed to be more painful than getting kicked by a guy woth boots.

I imagine his feet as being hard as iron. It looks like out in Hawaii he doesn't wear shoes ever. There was a moment in the Territories WCCW episode where he talked about how he kicked Buddy in the face who left a dental imprint in his foot, and he kicks up his leg over the table and -- of course -- isn't wearing shoes. 

Speaking of those, I so wish Lowrance would have spoken on them cuz he seemed like this hard-ass reformed preacher on the Heroes of World Class doc, and I bet he had a lot of dirt to dish. Buddy would have been great too but he had that nasty throat-hole surgery where you have to stick your thumb in your neck to speak. 

[Cobra Commander]

yeah Buddy Roberts has a bit of a "guy who buys beer for teenagers" aesthetic while around Hayes and Gordy

I'm guessing the general plan for the Freebirds in the WWF would involve turning them if they hadn't get themselves fired quickly. Like I could see Buddy Roberts eating a pounding from Hulk Hogan because he didn't escape as quickly as Hayes/Gordy.

But then again, the WWF saw Dick Slater and thought "babyface" so.. maybe they would have had the Freebirds beat Nikolai and Sheik at Wrestlemania 1

[odessasteps]

And just think, Watts put Buddy with the Freebirds to watch over them and he was the perfect fit in the way he didn’t expect.

[Gorman]

Thoughts on Guilty as Charged 2000

Sign Guy Dudley found his voice as Lou E. Dangerously, leader of the New Dangerous Alliance, which had an Anderson (CW) and someone Beautiful (Billy Wiles)

The other remaining Dudley, Spike, found himself in the main event against Mike Awesome for the ECW title. Awesome had knocked out the front teeth of Spike’s girlfriend, who looked like his little sister.

Tajiri and Super Crazy were set to face off in a dream partner match. Realizing that they have fought each other too many times, Steve Corino chose Crazy as Tajiri’s partner. Now they just needed opponents. Little Guido came out, and Paul E. picked Jerry Lynn as his partner. Both teams imploded, and Tajiri pinned Lynn with a brainbuster.

Raven finally did something unselfish (saving Francine from being caned), and it cost him and Dreamer the tag team belts against The Impact Players.

RVD is the MVP for overcoming Fonzie’s vacillation, taking him out with a Van Daminator, and beating Sabu to drive him out of ECW. Like New Jack, RVD was something special that you could only see in ECW.

[Curt McGirt]

On 10/6/2023 at 6:27 PM, Cobra Commander said:

yeah Buddy Roberts has a bit of a "guy who buys beer for teenagers" aesthetic while around Hayes and Gordy

I think Gordy WAS a teenager  And definitely one who never got carded! (IIRC -- and this is just because I only recently watched it -- Hayes said that he was 20 and Gordy was 19 when they started in Louisiana for Watts)

Edited October 8, 2023 by Curt McGirt

[zendragon]

Spike Dudley's girlfriend has a total Female Garth from waynes world vibe

[Curt McGirt]

[Cobra Commander]

Since tomorrow/Tuesday night is an unofficial war between WWE and AEW (although for the interests of good taste and expectations setting, it's not technically a war) and since Baseball playoffs will be happening during part of the daytime... well... it's time to find something vaguely war-like in the WWE Network Peacock vault.

It's time for...

Raw is WAR (5/26/1997)

Maybe there should be more fire and explosions in wrestling show intros.

We are live from Evansville, Indiana with not yet officially evil Vince and Jim Ross.

We open up with Stone Cold arriving to open the show. Followed by his tag team partner Shawn Michaels. Shawn is in a Homer Simpson t-shirt this week for some reason. JR presides over this meeting. Can this tag team coexist? Can any man coexist with 1997 Shawn Michaels? The Legion of Doom arrive to stare down Michaels and Austin. Hawk being the same height as Shawn Michaels was not something I expected.

We open with The Legion of Doom vs Jim Neidhart and Brian Pillman: No wheelchair for Bret Hart as the Hart Foundation joins Neidhart/Pillman. Bret Hart is scheduled to face Shawn Michaels at King of the Ring (about that). Brian Pillman would be the father of future NXT Star Lexis King.

The 1997 King of the Ring, presented by Super Soaker!

Okay, now it's match time. For some reason, the Hart Foundation makes two entrances? This would be the first Brian Pillman Raw match. JR does his best 1983 Mid South by bringing up the origin of the Anvil nickname. Hawk fucks up a press slam and then just does it the right way. Pillman and Animal kinda fuck up a spot where Pillman knocks Animal to the floor. Wild to hear JR use the throat operations factoid to try putting Pillman over a heel. Eventually Owen and Davey mercykill this match and run in, leading to Austin and Michaels making a save. Austin and Michaels fight each other. HOW WILL THEY EVER COEXIST. Out of Animal, Hawk, Neidhart, and Pillman in 1997, man that's not a pretty four-some. All the stooges try to break up Austin and Michaels. Who are wrestling for the Tag Team Titles tonight.

Meanwhile, Sunny shoots Honky Tonk Man with a Supersoaker. Well soaking is one thing associated with some fans looking at Sunny in 1997. Not sure who was utilized worse between Missy Hyatt in NWA/NWA and Sunny post-1996 in WWF.

Jerry the King Lawler vs Goldust in the KOTR Tournament later. Which should go great.

Paul Bearer is backstage and if anything happens to him, the Secret will be revealed. Man this RAW backstage interview area had a look to it. 

Next up, it's D. Lo Brown (w/ Faarooq, Crush and Savio) vs Bob Sparkplug Holly. Weird how they couldn't fit Bob Holly into the Gang Warz. Aren't Pit Crews a bit like a gang. Big upset for Bob Holly last week. Faarooq is on commentary for this huge match. Nice rana by Bob Holly. Two fans have signs, a bit quieter than it would be in a few months. Naturally they're running a "First Black WWF Champ" thing with the guy who was the first Black WCW Champ 5 years earlier. I can feel this match getting destroyed in the ratings by Nitro. D. Lo wins by countering a rana into a sitdown powerbomb. Nobody in the crowd appeared to give a fuck about this match.

The Undertaker is standing by in a dark space. They have technical difficulties. They get him to do his promo with actual audio.

Jerry Lawler is standing by and he cuts an infamous promo and gets cheered because this is USWA Country. Don't worry, they mute a certain word because the world has changed since 1997.

GET AN OFFICIAL KING OF THE RING INFLATABLE CHAIR. The chair costs 60 fucking dollars. Wowwwww.

Now it's time for Goldust vs Jerry The King Lawler in a King of the Ring Qualifying match. Since Marlena's a babyface, Vince gets to tell us how good looking she is. Last week we met Dakota Runnels. This is a huge "Does He Know" meme of a matchup and location. We flash back to December when Goldust turns face by telling the world that he's not gay. Lawler isn't in black and red for once. Goldust isn't necessarily getting booed but Lawler is being cheered loudly. That Lawler Piledriver looked gnarly. Goldust's piledriver looked pretty good. Lawler's tights look like a rug design. Goldust doing some selling tonight. The crowd is counting and cheering Goldust's corner punch shtick. They're just so positive tonight. Lawler beats Goldust with a rollup out of the order and his feet on the ropes ans the crowd goes wild. Goldust gets booed for the postmatch beatdown. Lawler gets to roll down the ramp. Marlena steps over Lawler. Well, that was certainly an experience. Nice restraint by Lawler to not drop the strap and get a huge crowd pop for a 5 minute match where he's technically the heel.

Stone Cold is standing by, then Brian Pillman ambushes him and the Hart Foundation joins in.

Flash Funk is taking on..

Stone Cold is walking and Shawn Michaels just got beat down too, and then they argue.

Anyways, our matchup is Flash Funk vs Rocky Maivia. One of these two is gonna become the biggest movie star wrestler ever. Yeah these fans don't seem to care about Rocky. The opposite of love is apathy? This is face vs face. There's a ruckus in the audience as the Headbangers have inflatable King of the Ring chairs and they're at ringside. Nice leg lariat by Flash. Rocky gets two for the proto-Rock Bottom. Flash with a plancha and then the Headbangers show up to end this matchup before the fans risk caring about it. Flash takes a boombox to the head. Okay, this match is still going on and Rocky wins with a crossbody. Feels like there was a blaring loud "we don't care about this match, you shouldn't either" siren during this one. Amazing how soon things change for Rocky.

We're on two part two of the Mankind in-depth interview. Oh yes, Goldust actually went first and then got left in the dust by these Foley interviews. His testicles were the size of grapefruits. More on that later.

Bret Hart vs Shawn Michaels at King of the Ring. If Bret doesn't win in 10 minutes, he will never wrestle in the USA again (well, they'll recycle that stip for later). Pillman vs Stone Cold at King of the Ring (nope). Stone Cold and Michaels vs Owen and Bulldog later tonight. And that ends the first hour of the show.

Let's do the intro again because it's the WARZONE (so that they get two entries in the ratings). TWO PLUS FOUR ANOTHER ONCE MORE RAWISTHETHORNINYOUREYE. Man these fans love explosions. Vince and JR are still on commentary. This is such a weird formatting quirk that they did for years.

Ken Shamrock will join us on commentary for...

Vader vs Ahmed Johnson. The Headbangers left their inflatable chairs at ringside. If Vader wins this match, he gets Ahmed Johnson's spot in the King of the Ring tournament. JR really running through these anecdotes like he's doing NFL Draft profiles ("Ahmed was an abused child who joined the Bloods!"). The Ultimate Fighting Championship is this Friday. WWF working with UFC? That's a weird one. Ahmed Johnson wins with a spinebuster as we're seeing a splitscreen of Paul Bearer.

Are there new members of the Hart Foundation on the Way? Give the WWF Superstar Line your money to find out if Yokozuna will be joining the Hart Foundation tonight.

The Warzone is brought to you by the Army and Supersoaker.

Paul Bearer is standing by to do another promo. It looks like his bandages are better applied this time around.

Hunter Hearst Helmsley is taking on Rockabilly. That Ode to Joy theme didn't last long, did it? We get a look back at Chyna's debut which was 3 months ago. JR tells us that the rich people live in Greenwich for the fans unfamiliar with the social dynamics of Connecticut. Holy fuck this Rockabilly gimmick is so bad. Last week Goldust hit Honky Tonk Man with a guitar. Billy Gunn looks like a country music star who believes Garth Brooks ruined his career. Fans still don't appear to be giving a crap. Chyna bodyslams the Honky Tonk Man on the outside. Helmsley wins with the Pedigree. Amazing how soon things change for Rockabilly.

The Undertaker is standing by. He is still in a dark room. The Undertaker has a made a decision. He will do what he has to do.

It's Sable and she has an inflatable chair. How many of these things did they make because they sure do want to sell them. Send a postcard to Mt. Morris, Illinois for an inflatable King of the Ring chair. Phone number no longer active.

Time for us to learn more about Mankind. He hitchhiked to the Garden to see Jimmy Snuka jump off the cage (which happened 40 years ago this month). Mankind made a movie about himself at the age of 18. He was Dude Love back then. He jumped off of his house onto a mattress (see, they did that in the 80s too). This video got Mick Foley trained by Dominic DeNucci. Cactus Jack wasn't supposed to last as long as he did. Next week, Cactus Jack is in death matches in Japan! Yeah, these segments rule and you've probably seen them already.

Now time for our main event, it's Shawn Michaels and Stone Cold Steve Austin vs Owen Hart and the British Bulldog.  Quick start. Sorta weird to see babyface Vince putting over babyface Austin. But i'm someone who didn't regularly watch until 3 months after this show. Despite all the prematch hype, Austin and Michaels work well together. The LOD is watching a monitor since they face the winners. This is the first Michaels match in months. The inflatable chairs are still at ringside. It would presumably be an automatic DQ to use such dangerous weapons in a match. This match rocks and is probably on no shortage of Best-Ofs. Michaels is in this match for a long time and he's in some peril. Earl Hebner sure does get distracted easily. JR confuses the Leg Lariat for the move that put out Michaels in November 1995. Hot tag to Stone Cold. Michaels superkicks Bulldog and Austin gets the pin. We have new champions and then an postmatch attack on Michaels. Austin's not helping out.. because he's going after unprotected Bret Hart instead. But how will the postmatch impact that Michaels/Hart match at King of the Ring.

And that match isn't even the final segment!

Standing by with Stone Cold backstage. He won the Tag Team titles by himself. Which is a hilarious claim when you consider the match. Michaels shows up and they argue after spending a match not really showing dissention. Next week Michaels and Austin take on the Legion of Doom from Huntington, West Virginia.

Paul Bearer walks down to the ring and Vince joins him. Will Paul Bearer tell us the secret? We get an extension of the Undertaker cinematic universe. There were 3 graves that day. Which summons the Undertaker to walk fastly to the ring. Oh yeah, if the Undertaker kills Paul Bearer, then his attorneys will reveal the secret. Undertaker goozles Paul Bearer and the fans are into this angle. The Undertaker lets go and salutes Paul Bearer and we fade to black. Well, surely this angle won't dramatically escalate soon!

On checking the internet, the ratings for May were Nitro 3.3 with a main event of Sting dropping a bogus Sting as Hogan flees and Raw 2.7. Kinda interesting and counter to narratives that Nitro was winning every week without blowing out Raw around this time. But WCW ratings would start going up as the year went on and we approached Starrcade.

I mean, I could have done the first Raw that I remember watching. But that was the Melanie Pillman exploitation episode from my home area so... eh... nope.

[Curt McGirt]

That post made me realize I've never ever known what the lyrics to the Raw song are. 

[Cobra Commander]

I didn’t think about the symbolism of picking a show mainevented by Shawn Michaels for my “wrestling war themed” card. But that was a really good pick because I’m not watching Lowell December 1997 at 1am

[zendragon]

My family got cable sometime around Kane showing up, so that's when I started following

I've heard that the initial plan was for Ken Shamrock to do UFC and WWF at the time

[Cobra Commander]

Shamrock was 2 months into his time in the WWE and was still sounding like a normal dude during commentary for Ahmed/Vader.

The Between the Sheets podcast mentioning all the Vinceisms kinda ruins me when listening to Vince run through all those lines. I don’t know if Vince was thinking of leaving commentary before Montreal but it’s such a dramatic improvement in the product when he goes off to being the #1 heel

[Gorman]

Thoughts on Living Dangerously 2000

Steve Corino tugged on Superman's cape by challenging Dusty Rhodes to a Texas Bullrope match. Dusty busted Corino WIDE open (Dusty bled too, of course). Maybe Corino shouldn't have attacked HC Loc in Milwaukee, because Loc was the referee here. He decided this match needed MORE COWBELL~! and taped a second one to Corino's head. Dusty blasted him with a chair and dropped the elbow for the pin.

Elektra turned against Doring & Roadkill, who were gaining popularity with the fans, to join the New Dangerous Alliance. She cut a surprisingly good promo against Paul Heyman, who she called an old friend who never gave her a career boost. Extra points for referencing Paul E's promo on Madusa ("You are a man, man, man ...")

Mike Awesome was the ECW champion and also held the tag team belts with Raven. It was strange for Raven to hold the belts with a normal partner rather than a lackey (Stevie) or an enemy (Dreamer). Masato Tanaka pinned Awesome to guarantee new champions and stake his claim to a shot at the ECW title. The Impact Players regained the belts.

New Jack did one of the craziest, most ill-advised dives in wrestling history. He stepped off a scaffold 30 feet in the air and just dragged Vic Grimes with him. New Jack went through the table feet first, and then the 350-pound Grimes landed on top of him. It was a terrible idea. But nobody embodied "Living Dangerously" more than New Jack, so he's the MVP.

 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Gorman

[Cobra Commander]

In the spirit of equal time... I present the other side of the Wrestling War from May 26th, 1997

WCW Monday Nitro (5/26/1997)

I considered doing the first Clash as a "Wrestling War" watch, but that's a super awesome card that you're probably familiar with and Wednesday Afternoon is open due to the Orioles so I can watch Clash 1 then if I wanna.

We're in Nashville. We open with Eric Bischoff and Hollywood Hogan. Dimming the house lights actually makes this look cool. Nowadays, if you tried dimming the lights, they'd just say that you're trying to hide empty seats. Hogan without a blond mustache certainly is a look (Assault on Devil's Island). This being WCW, dimming the lights also gives random people the idea to throw stuff towards Hogan. This was a relatively short Hogan show opening promo. Guessing this mission-creeped hard once they got a 3rd hour a few months from now.

Our first match is a Lucha Six Man: Hector Garza, Super Calo, & Juventud Guerrera vs La Parka, Ciclope and Damien. Yesss.. the essence of Nitro, random Lucha! HOLY FUCK Super Calo dove directly into the second row. Damien looks like somebody's uncle in a hoodie. How much free stuff could you get to not sue WCW because Super Calo landed in your lap. Nice moonsault on the outside by Garza. Larry commentates lucha like crusty baseball announcers who hate analytics. Damien and Parka bumping like maniacs for Juvy. Everybody dives to the outside. Garza dives onto a bunch of dudes! Hector Gah-zah pins Cicolpe after countering a rana(?) into a powerbomb and a standing moonsault. That was a sprint. Whooooo.

Our second match is Psicosis vs Alex Wright. Hey motherfucker, did you like that lucha? how about some more lucha and German penis dancing. Alex Wright has been one of the revelations of watching Nitro years later. Dude was ahead of his time and got out of wrestling early. He just got pushed way quickly and internet dorks 25 years ago hated those types of babyfaces. Nice dancing by Alex Wright before eating a corkscrew moonsault. Psicosis wins the match with a guillotine leg drop.

Sonny Ono joins Mean Gene and he has a surprise for Chono. Sonny also tries to do business with Psicosis. Meanwhile Madusa just walks out to demand a title shot. Sonny Ono offers a title vs career matchup for Madusa which of course leadss to Madusa losing and getting berated postmatch.

Ernest Miller recently showed up to help Glacier, so here's some footage of Ernest Miller in martial arts competitions.

Our third match is Wrath vs Mark Starr. They have Glacier's helmet on a staff. Captivating. Mortis is standing guard looking at the entrance, until he helps Wrath doubleteam Mark Starr as the ref is distracted. Wrath had a cool look and he wins with the Death Penalty. Vandenberg is the msot evil looking schlub there was.

Our fourth match is Villano IV vs Konnan. Let's hear from Hugh Morris about his former tag team partner Konnan? Okay, sure. Konnan immediately does his coolest looking move, the rolling clothesline. I don't think Konnan is in the NWO yet since he's dressing like a street dude but he doesn't have an NWO shirt. Hugh Morrus runs out and almost gets past Doug Dillenger. Doug Dillinger looking like Bill James with that beard. Konnan wins with the Tequila Sunrise. Mean Gene comes out to talk to Konnan. Kevin Sullivan is apparently on a sabbatical. Okay, so Konnan's around the dying days Dungeon of Doom.

This week on WCW Saturday Night, Meng, Psicosis, The Steiners, The Giant. Sadly I doubt "B-Row Saturday Night" ever makes the network.

Sonny Ono comes out to tell us that Chono's nightmare is The Great Muta.

Our fifth match is The Great Muta vs Masahiro Chono. Lots of standing around to start off. Muta puts Chono in a side headlock. Muta mists Sonny Ono and joins the NWO. Larry yells out "You can't trust the Japanese"... when does Bobby Heenan get off of his bender so that Larry can retire for the evening? Nice to see that the NWO isn't fond of managers playing up Japanese stereotypes.

Our sixth match is The Barbarian vs Jim Powers. Okay good, Bobby Heenan and the second hour has arrived. Teddy Long is managing Jim Powers in his "babyface manager of jobbers" role. Barbarian and Powers exchange chops at one point and Powers chops don't seem that convincing. Jim Powers leaps off the top and Barbarian barely catches him for a slam. Barbarian wins with the Kick Of Fear. Jimmy Hart looking a little more low-key his usual this week. Mostly that's a comment about his attire this week. It looks like Jimmy Hart's managing a strip club. Mean Gene is at ring side and Chris Benoit has some words for Jimmy Hart. The road to Kevin Sullivan is apparently The Barbarian. Next Monday Nitro, Chris Benoit takes on the Barbarian. Woman is also there.

Our seventh match is The Giant vs Johnny Swinger, Rick Fuller and Jerry Flynn. The Giant doesn't have theme music, he has green lighting. Feels like "I don't have entrance music" would be a very niche heel gimmick to try these days. Jerry Flynn has a solid mullet. Giant choke slams everybody and pins two of the three for the win. Valvoline name drop on the replay. Mean Gene joins Lex Luger and The Giant post match. Lex Luger has been watching the NBA Playoffs and analyzing Dennis Rodman's every move. Lugar and Giant want Hogan and Rodman for Bash at the Beach.

Lee Marshall is in Dayton at a Nitro Party. Don't worry, he says weasel.

Syxx walks out to show us the Outsiders beating down Ric Flair. Nash and Hall enter to cut a promo on Flair and Piper. "Piper, the only way you could put Hollywood or me to sleep is if you tied us up and made us watch your movie". Nash challenges Flair/Piper to a title match. Also since Piper isn't a man of his word because he told his son he would retire, the Outsiders would retire him themselves.

Last week, Kevin Greene returned to hit Mongo with a Halliburton. Kevin Greene will face Mongo at the Great American Bash.

Our eighth match is Jeff Jarrett and Mongo McMichael vs Harlem Heat. Nice to see Jeff Jarrett get booked in Nashville. This is actually our main event match. Send some mail to Birmingham, Alabama for an NWO t-shirt! Tony announces a WCW show at the Forum on June 28th where the tickets go on sale less than a month before the show. What a world. The fans pop because they see Kevin Greene is here. Kevin Greene and Bobby Heenan exchanging words at the table. Oh man, Mongo trying to do a Fargo Strut next to Jeff Jarrett. Mongo sure is wrestling a lot in this match. Jeff Jarrett is Horseman adjacent at this moment which doesn't really go anywhere interesting until he leaves WCW. Mongo as a face in peril sure is one way to book this. Of course this being 1997, Mongo's a face against Harlem Heat and a heel vs Kevin Greene. I guess. Jeff Jarrett gets the hot tag and goes wild. Mongo eventually figures out that Kevin Greene is here and they're going at it. Useless Doug Dillinger tries to do something about it. Jeff Jarrett is by himself as a result. Jarrett gets pinned after the Heatseeker. Welcome home Jeff!

This being 1997 WCW, we're ending the show with Hollywood Hogan doing another promo. Hogan challenges Sting to come on out and face him. Sting emerges ffrom the ring. Tony figures out it's a fake Sting when he drops to his knees in front of Hogan. Which is unusually quick for Tony Schiavone at this time. Meanwhike the real Sting drops from the rafters, drops Bischoff, Hogan trips over the fake Sting, Sting drops the fake Sting, and Hogan flees. The nearest NWO members come out and join Hogan. Fans, we'reouttatime. Okay, we're staying with this. And then Sting takes off into the rafters and we fade to black.

Well, that was a fun two hour show. You get a pretty good taste of what Nitro probably did 50 times a year in 1997.

[SirSmUgly]

On one of these Nitros around this time, Calo did the wild crowd dive and broke a kid's arm. I don't remember if it was that show or not. Immediately after, he cut out the wild crowd dives and stuck to just splattering himself every other spot. 

[Cobra Commander]

Here’s the May 26th dive: 

Calo went into the crowd again 3 weeks later:

So not sure which one of these wiped out a kid.

[clintthecrippler]

3 hours ago, SirSmUgly said:

On one of these Nitros around this time, Calo did the wild crowd dive and broke a kid's arm. 

When I was doing my Prime Time rewatch on the Network a few years back, I was shocked that the Ted Arcidi vs Tony Atlas Boston Garden 1986 match was left unedited. They were brawling outside the ring, tipped over one of the thick black barricades with both the barricade's weight AND the weight of both Arcidi and Atlas falling right on the legs of a child sitting in the front row that couldn't get out of the way in time. The kid is absolutely screaming and crying like his legs had gotten completely crushed (probably because they had been crushed legit) and I would be shocked if that kid ever watched wrestling again after that. 

I can't imagine there wasn't some sort of lawsuit after that. 

[Cobra Commander]

Things I Remember from Clash Of The Champions 1

Gonna review this one more like my Dynamite reviews because this is much more known than weekly TV shows and you've probably seen at least some of these matches. Although I typed up a lot of this post before the Main Event, so I'm kinda doing PBP comments on Sting/Flair.

Since Wrestling Wars and Counterprogramming is a hot topic this week, let's do the first big example of counterprogramming that I wanna watch (sorry Rumble 88)

Before going into the card, a list of wrestling shows on TV in the KC area on the weekend of March 26th-27th, 1988: Wrestlemania IV went on the air at 3pm Central Time on March 27th. The Clash was also on the air at 3pm. Hence the WAR. Arizona/North Carolina in the NCAA tournament was on CBS during Clash/WM4. Kansas/K-State in the Tournament was on from 12:30 to 2:30. All-American Wrestling was on USA from 11-Noon. All-Star Wrestling (Central States) was on at 8am Sunday. Championship Wrestling was on at 8am on Saturday. Followed by GLOW at 9am, World Wide Wrestling at 10am, World Class at 11am. AWA was on ESPN at 11:30pm. Superstars of Wrestling was on at Midnight in Kansas City. The lead-in for Clash 1 was The Three Stooges.

The first match was an amateur rules match which is a goofy stip to do even if it makes sense for Rotundo. The Greensboro ring announcer is amazing. The crowd is molten hot all night and they worked this pretty much like a match without nearfalls. Having a distraction rollup end this match was an idea. The crowd went while once Precious walked tall and hit Rick Steiner with a 2x4 and started choking Kevin Sullivan with a wire-hanger. I think the fans made more noise for this opener than all of Wrestlemania IV.

Dr. Death passes our time by cutting a promo.

I had seen Midnights vs Fantastics before. Including on a Cornette podcast watch along. But that was a hilariously amazing amount of chaos. Basically every time Randy Anderson wasn't looking closely enough, there was cheating and it ruled. Even the finish didn't really subtract from it much since the whole thing was chaos. Cornette hitting everybody with the racket post match. The match was worked more like a street riot with Randy Anderson spending most of his time accidentally aiding heel cheating. It was amazing.

Eddie Haskell talks to Jim Cornette in some real amusing schtick.

Gary Hart is back and that means we're in the Al Perez era of Gary Hart's career. Also Frances Crockett has Crockett Cup seeds

Somehow a Texas Barb Wire Chicago Street Fight was less chaotic than the US Tag Title Match. The Animal face mask made him look like a huge badass. Baby faces win and then there's some violence afterwards. Interesting how barb wire went from "can logically be used in rural wrestling" to "is a stable of northeast indy scum"

Nikita Koloff has hair and doesn't like drugs any more.

Quick babyface surge to start Barry/Lex vs Arn/Tully. Putting someone down with the sleeper on the floor is a more creative use of the sleeper than most of the ones i've seen. Tully looked elated after hitting that Slingshot Suplex that didn't end the match. Our heroes win the titles after they reverse a whip and knock Arn into the chair. This crowd is constantly jacked up and it makes this show better. Take notes, current fans/promoters. Midnights/Fantastics made it really hard for the other tag title match to measure up. But, tough shit, either step up or get overshadowed

This card was sorta worked like a Royal Rumble where a good amount of the card was gonna be one match. But Jim Ross did make them promise to mention STAND-BY MATCHES

Nice of them to get a Penthouse Pet and Jason Hervey in as judges for this match. What a group of 5 judges. JJ is gonna be in a cage which pops me more because I didn't know that this was a stip for the match. Considering JJ just fucked up the last match, Sting might be hindered by JJ being caged. Make your move talking to that Penthouse Pet, Jason! (he's probably like 13 at this time, so I would like to clarify that this is not an endorsement of anything illegal). Cool how much of the Flair/Sting formula was figured out this quickly. The camera angle of JJ in his cage makes me think it's like I'm trying to find a kitten on the cat tree. Ken Osmond looks like he's running a casino built on the winnings earned through his future self giving him a sports almanac. The formula isn't totally set since Sting occasionally sells chops. You see fans, you should make noise so that the evil heels can't talk to each other. Also because it makes the TV look better. It just looks dangerous to touch 1980s guardrails, much less get whipped into one. The distance between the rail and the first row is interesting. Sting running his arms into solid objects is one way for him to get thrown into peril. Sting doing his comebacks to this molten crowd is a scene. The refs going onto the apron during corner punch spots makes sense and it's also as much of an attention spot as any attention spot that modern refs get accused of doing. Jason Hervey keeps talking to the Penthouse Pet. Sting is in peril late and now it's time to cheat like a mofo while applying the Figure Four. Sting pulling Flair away from the ropes before reversing the move really fires up this crowd even more. Tommy Young trying to get in the way of Flair suplexing Sting onto the floor (hey isn't that an over the top rope DQ) and that's reversed into the ring. Sting with a nice pause for a pop applying the Figure Four. Hey cool, Flair worked his favorite spot with Tommy Young into this match. Nice restraint to take this long to bust up the Judges table. Nice sunset flip reversal and reversal-reversal late. If I didn't know this was going to a draw, I'd know this is going to a draw by now.  Sting puts Flair in the Scorpion with 30 seconds left. Flair holds on until the match ends and now it's time for the judges which certainly won't lead to any malarkey. Nice of them to lower JJ from his cage for the decision.

The Penthouse Pet scores it for Flair (duh)

Gary Juster scores it for Sting

Sandy Scott scores it a draw (BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO)

Wait, so they didn't even ask Eddie Haskell or Jason Hervey. Jason Hervey's 15 year old self got to talk to Patty Mullen for 45 minutes and they didn't even ask him to decide a winner? How did they not end up working Jason Hervey into more wrestling stuff because he's hustling like crazy.

The essence of 1988 JCP: rapid hot crowds, great action, and bullshit finishes to get out of doing anything too dramatic.

Also, I love the crow's nest that Bob Caudle spent the entire show around.

Clash 1 is way better than Wrestlemania 4 because one of the crowds is made up of energetic North Carolinians and the other crowd is made up of rich dudes in Atlantic City.

Edited October 11, 2023 by Cobra Commander

[SirSmUgly]

5 hours ago, clintthecrippler said:

When I was doing my Prime Time rewatch on the Network a few years back, I was shocked that the Ted Arcidi vs Tony Atlas Boston Garden 1986 match was left unedited. They were brawling outside the ring, tipped over one of the thick black barricades with both the barricade's weight AND the weight of both Arcidi and Atlas falling right on the legs of a child sitting in the front row that couldn't get out of the way in time. The kid is absolutely screaming and crying like his legs had gotten completely crushed (probably because they had been crushed legit) and I would be shocked if that kid ever watched wrestling again after that. 

I can't imagine there wasn't some sort of lawsuit after that. 

I need to go back and see the full match. I've only seen the clip someone posted of about a minute of lethargic wrestling that Monsoon and Hayes were shitting on.

[Cobra Commander]

I watched a WWE Network exclusive of “Dusty stories” with Lawler, Flair, Arn, JJ Dillon, and Michael Hayes last night which was taped in 2015.

I get the sense that if I watched the Legends of Wrestling panels, Hayes would get annoying quick. I mean, 2010s Flair is what he is as a storyteller, but Hayes was lured onto the set to mention that he didn’t get paid enough at the Superdome, wasn’t he?

Seeing JJ does remind me that if they needed a manager for Yokozuna in 1993 and they didn’t get Cornette, they literally had a top manager in the front office who wasn’t a TV personality. Although you kinda need a carnival barker manager like Cornette for a giant monster heel and JJ was a little cerebral as a manager.

[odessasteps]

JJ did manage his fair share of monsters, including Kamala and, I think, Kendo Nagasaki. 

[Cobra Commander]

There would be a logical reason for JJ Dillon to manage Yokozuna vs Lex Luger. It’s just that the 1993 WWF wasn’t in the business of acknowledging things that happened 5 years ago in their own promotion much less other promotions

[odessasteps]

Was Akio Sato still there in 93? His English at that point was prob better than a lot of Americans on the payroll.