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The Baseball Hall of Fame Thread


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What an odd year, I know that you get ten picks, but I'm not able to see ten on these lists:

Bonds - That the greatest player I've ever seen is not in the HOF is a travesty.

Clemens - No one hates this miserable prick more than I do, but he does belong in. I can only hope it gives him as little pleasure as everything else seems to.

Guerrero - The second coming of Andre Dawson. Let's hope the writers aren't as stupid about Vlad as they were about Dawson for years.

Martinez - When you are the best player at your position who ever played the game, you go in the HOF. It's just that simple.

Jones - It was a treat to watch this man's whole career. 

Thome  - He hit the way that you would have expected Ted Kluzewski to hit. Maybe the best pure power hitter I've ever seen.

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I could give 10 easy.

Clemens- No Explanation needed

Bonds- Same

Chipper Jones- 84.6 WAR. Tied with George Brett. I'd say he's the best 3B I've ever seen play, but Adrian Beltre makes it a debate.

Jim Thome- I mean, not much to say there. He was really really good and hit at a high level for a very long time.

Mike Mussina- I went into it last year, but he was an amazing pitcher who doesn't get the credit he deserved because he pitched his entire career in the hitters goldmine in 90's and early 2000's AL East ballparks. He's not Maddux, Clemens, or Johnson, but I'd buy him above Glavine or Smoltz as other elite pitchers from this time period.

Larry Walker- Again, as said last year, Coors Effect or not, Larry Walker is the best hitter the Rockies ever had. He was an elite RF for a very long time. Easy in for me.

Edgar Martinez- If Jim Fucking Rice is in as a guy who couldn't defend but hit pretty well, Edgar should absolutely get in for being a guy who couldn't defend but who has career .418 OBP.

Andruw Jones- No position gets less HOF cred compared to what it should then CF's. So, with that in mind, here is the total list of guys would would associate as being Center Fielders who had more WAR since Andruw Jones since 1950: Willie Mays, Mickey Mantle, Ken Griffey Jr., and Carlos Beltran (by .1 WAR). And he did this by being the best defensive Center Fielder we might ever see. He's the Ozzie Smith of Center Fielders, if Ozzie Smith was a better hitter. I personally think both Kenny Lofton and Jim Edmonds should have gotten a lot more play then he did, but Andruw Jones needs to get some love.

Manny Ramirez- Simply Bonkers hitter. Better player then Vlad Guerrero over the course of there careers, just because he hit the ball like mad. If you are putting in Bonds and Clemens, you should be putting in Ramirez too.

10th... I'd probably lean Scheffield, though Schilling, Guerrero, and Wagner would get consideration from me as well.

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My ballot is probably Chipper, Thome and Vlad. No roid monkeys for me, but if you want to put in Bonds and Clemens, then Manny has to go in as well. As for Edgar, for a full time hitter, his numbers are pretty anemic by modern offensive standards. 2200 hits and 300 dingers might have been impressive 40 years ago, but are nothing special now, though the .312 is impressive enough.

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40 minutes ago, Kuetsar said:

My ballot is probably Chipper, Thome and Vlad. No roid monkeys for me, but if you want to put in Bonds and Clemens, then Manny has to go in as well. As for Edgar, for a full time hitter, his numbers are pretty anemic by modern offensive standards. 2200 hits and 300 dingers might have been impressive 40 years ago, but are nothing special now, though the .312 is impressive enough.

Career 147 OPS+. He not only belongs, he's a no-brainer. 

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Edgar Martinez is troubling because he only did one thing. My advocacy for Larry Walker is not only was he a great hitter, he was also one of the best defensive right fielders of all time. Edgar Martinez isn't a no brainer, he didn't get to 3,000 hits and outside of baseball nerds OPS means nothing. If he was in the field more, I'd understand... But no-brainer is a little strong.

My ballot is Chipper, Bonds, Hoffman, Guerrero, and Walker. I think Thome will get in, but he's not a first ballot guy to me.

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And my whole point was that Walker wasn't just a hitter, but also a five tool player versus Edgar Martinez who only did one thing. The whole argument should be that the stats should be a part of an HOF candidacy, but the eye test should be a part of it as well. And yes Walker had success in Montreal and St. Louis as well.

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1 hour ago, Ryan said:

Joe Morgan is still an asshat. That is all.

It's something about that position, really seems to have more than its fair share of legendary asshats. I don't just mean obnoxious, drunken jocks, that's as common to baseball as an umpire that you disagree with. No, I mean truly nasty pricks that in any other endeavor likely would have had their faces caved in. Let's see, start with Sandberg and let's work our way back through Alomar, Morgan, Frisch, & Hornsby. That's roughly one fifth of the HOF 2nd Basemen.  I know there were allegations of racism thrown around concerning Nellie Fox after his death, but *I* never heard him say anything questionable, nor have I ever heard him quoted directly as saying anything questionable. 

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Has it really been four years since we did this? Guess so. Since we have a bunch of new people here, here's how this works. This is the reverse Baseball Hall of Fame. The idea is to nominate up to ten players and five non-players who should be bounced out on their ears for either not meriting inclusion due to performance or the often overlooked "character clause".  So, yes, being a general asshat may be invoked. I'll tally up results and post the losers on 1/24/18. Feel free to try and defend someone that you feel is being unfairly maligned, but be aware, Rippa, Tabe, Kuetsar, and myself will likely have nominees and in addition to being grim and hateful bastards, we know our shit. 

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1 minute ago, El Dragon said:

So are we excluding people who got voted out before? Or just the fresh HOF list. Cause I could make some pretty good cases.

Hell, it's been four years and there's a bunch of new folks here, let's start fresh.

 

And this time, I'll actually keep track... ;-)

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2 hours ago, El Dragon said:

Incorrect. He had multiple 135 wRC+ seasons before he went to the Rockies. He was a great hitter on the Expos, he just happened to hit like Barry Bonds at Coors Field when he went there, to a degree that blows away any one else who played in Coors.

154 homers in 597 games at Coors, 224 in 1391 elsewhere. .381 average at Coors, .282 elsewhere. 

Brady Anderson had a great season. Doesn't make him a great hitter. 

You wanna claim Walker was a great overall player? OK. But "great hitter"? No. 

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6 minutes ago, Tabe said:

154 homers in 597 games at Coors, 224 in 1391 elsewhere. .381 average at Coors, .282 elsewhere. 

Brady Anderson had a great season. Doesn't make him a great hitter. 

You wanna claim Walker was a great overall player? OK. But "great hitter"? No. 

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/if-you-vote-for-vlad-you-have-to-vote-for-walker/

 

I don't really need to add anything this doesn't say better then I can.

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2 hours ago, RIPPA said:

Nice to know John wanted to make sure we could all read his first post

Whatever would we do without your veteran presence? ;-)

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You can make a case that Walker was the best player on what was without question one of the greatest teams to not win a title (94 Expos). Last time I looked Montreal wasn't located 2,000 feet above sea level. He should be in, and so should Edgar. As for my ballot I voted for Johan Santana 10 times just for ending our no hitter drought.

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All should be public, so we can angrily tweet those we disagree with and random websites can dox them and their families and get arrested for threatening to murder them over not selecting a random no-name guy.

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