Joe Lucia Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 I don't even know why I'm feeding the beast, but in his nine year career, Martin has had a walk rate north of 10% and a strikeout rate south of 20% just once each. Only six catchers including Martin did that last year. Four did it in 2013, and two of those four aren't full-time catchers anymore, with a third probably joining them sooner rather than later. Six (including Martin) did it in 2012, including two ex-fulltimers and one soon to be ex-fulltimer. Four (including Martin) did it in 2011, including one ex-fulltimer. My point? Saying that he's "not even an average hitter" is pretty silly. In addition to him being an excellent receiver, he has decent pop, great plate discipline, and plays a position where the league averaged .244/.309/.379 a year ago. Is it any wonder he's asking for, and will likely receive, top dollar? Also, your only other options on the free agent market are JP Arencibia, John Buck, Ryan Doumit (WHO IS NOT A CATCHER), Nick Hundley, Gerald Laird, Wil Nieves, AJ Pierzynski, David Ross, and Geovany Soto. How many of them would you even feel comfortable giving 250 PA to, let alone 450? So many teams need to upgrade at catcher, and Martin is the only guy out there that will actually be an upgrade and cost a team just money and a probable draft pick as opposed to oodles of prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdA Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Shrug. OK. My gut tells me Martin is a trap for his age (32 next year) and the contract he will get - especially the years. I have been wrong before, I'll be wrong plenty more. But I would not be in love with a 3-5 year deal for Martin at the money he is going to command. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raziel Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 You can not be in love with his bat numbers, but after he left NY, they sure as hell felt him missing behind the plate, regardless of his batting production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Known as Dan Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Shrug. OK. My gut tells me Martin is a trap for his age (32 next year) and the contract he will get - especially the years. I have been wrong before, I'll be wrong plenty more. But I would not be in love with a 3-5 year deal for Martin at the money he is going to command. Oh, make no mistake, I hear you. He is gonna get a monster contract, and I wouldn't go there myself. But, honestly, in terms of position players, free agency isn't amazing this year. The Cubs upgrade possibilities are at C, 3B, and LF. CF would be an option, but there isn't an upgrade available there. There is very little of note available at a corner outfield spot, and most of what is are much more a RF then a LF. 3B has some good options, but I don't want to sign Hanley Ramirez for what he will want, Sandoval will probably re-sign, and that leaves Chase Headley who is a 3B version of Martin: Defense Defense Defense with meh Offense. Headley could make more sense, but we have better options at 3B then C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIPPA Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 MLB Trade Rumors QO tracker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Lucia Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 To piggy back on what everyone else is saying, I personally wouldn't be too giddy to give Martin 5/75. But if you're an org like the Cubs with money to piss away, only one catching prospect (who may not even stick behind the plate), and a pitching staff trending on the young side...yeah, I'd probably bite the bullet and swallow my pride. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Known as Dan Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 MLB Trade Rumors QO tracker Pirates giving out a QO to Liriano sucks the wind from my sails a bit. Just waiting on the Sandoval and Cruz announcements, and all the obvious ones will be handled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Known as Dan Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 To piggy back on what everyone else is saying, I personally wouldn't be too giddy to give Martin 5/75. But if you're an org like the Cubs with money to piss away, only one catching prospect (who may not even stick behind the plate), and a pitching staff trending on the young side...yeah, I'd probably bite the bullet and swallow my pride.I'd say we have two legit prospects, since we got Caratini.... But you still have a solid pointsPersonally, I wouldn't go up to 5 years unless it was 12 mill or less, or at least rated down as the contract goes down a considerable bit. EDIT: First Player to ever accept a QO ever will most likely go too.... Michael Cuddyer! Rockies gave him one, and I'd be rather surprised if he didn't sign it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Lucia Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 I was just coming here to post the Cuddyer thing. HE PLAYED 49 GAMES THIS YEAR AND WILL BE 36 BEFORE OPENING DAY. They already have $63MM committed next year. Colorado is batshit insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIPPA Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 I am assuming the only thing delaying Cuddyer accepting will be him having to find pants since I am sure he has misplaced them all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Known as Dan Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 The funny thing is, I really like Cuddyer. He might be the most underrated hitter in baseball over the last 10 years. Career .817 OPS. I kinda liked the idea of bringing him in as an OF platoon guy if he'd take it. There that goes. EDIT: Yankees officially QO Robertson, which to me is more confusing then the Cuddyer thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdA Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 The funny thing is, I really like Cuddyer. He might be the most underrated hitter in baseball over the last 10 years. Career .817 OPS. I kinda liked the idea of bringing him in as an OF platoon guy if he'd take it. There that goes. EDIT: Yankees officially QO Robertson, which to me is more confusing then the Cuddyer thing. Cuddyer would be fine for cheap - especially with his injury history. For real money...no thanks. Plus, he's a DH stuck in trying to play a position in the NL. And Robertson makes sense in that the Yanks want the draft pick. And if accepts he's below market value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Known as Dan Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 The funny thing is, I really like Cuddyer. He might be the most underrated hitter in baseball over the last 10 years. Career .817 OPS. I kinda liked the idea of bringing him in as an OF platoon guy if he'd take it. There that goes. EDIT: Yankees officially QO Robertson, which to me is more confusing then the Cuddyer thing. Cuddyer would be fine for cheap - especially with his injury history. For real money...no thanks. Plus, he's a DH stuck in trying to play a position in the NL. And Robertson makes sense in that the Yanks want the draft pick. And if accepts he's below market value. 15 million is below market value on a 1 year deal? I mean, I know it's the Yanks and money isn't much of a deal, but I'm not sure if I would give any reliever 15 mill right now. No way anyway touches him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilwaldo Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 I was just coming here to post the Cuddyer thing. HE PLAYED 49 GAMES THIS YEAR AND WILL BE 36 BEFORE OPENING DAY. They already have $63MM committed next year. Colorado is batshit insane. If you take a look at the Phillies payroll you will revise that last sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIPPA Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 He isn't accepting so it isn't an issue but yes - $15 million is below market value From trade rumors predictions 13. David Robertson – Cubs. Robertson is the best free agent reliever this winter, and the 29-year-old may be aiming to top Jonathan Papelbon’s four-year, $50MM deal. Indeed, a reliever of Robertson’s caliber hasn’t hit the free agent market since Papelbon three years ago. The Yankees will tender a one-year, $15.3MM qualifying offer, which Robertson should easily turn down in search of a career payday. The Cubs and White Sox are other potential fits given large amounts of payroll space and protected first-round picks. And if you don't think the Cubs then - it is quite easy to picture the Tigers give him insane cash after the year they had with their pen Or perhaps the Nats I am not disagreeing in regards to whether it is a good investment or not - just that the Yanks were most assuredly going to offer him a QO because of the way the market was dictating PVC~! and all that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdA Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 The funny thing is, I really like Cuddyer. He might be the most underrated hitter in baseball over the last 10 years. Career .817 OPS. I kinda liked the idea of bringing him in as an OF platoon guy if he'd take it. There that goes. EDIT: Yankees officially QO Robertson, which to me is more confusing then the Cuddyer thing. Cuddyer would be fine for cheap - especially with his injury history. For real money...no thanks. Plus, he's a DH stuck in trying to play a position in the NL. And Robertson makes sense in that the Yanks want the draft pick. And if accepts he's below market value. 15 million is below market value on a 1 year deal? I mean, I know it's the Yanks and money isn't much of a deal, but I'm not sure if I would give any reliever 15 mill right now. No way anyway touches him. The last two closers who hit the market were Papelbon in 2012 and Rafeal Soriano in 2013. Paps got $13 million/year, Soriano got $11 million/year. I'm not saying anyone SHOULD spent $15.3 million on a closer. But I would say the market would probably give him $16 million/year on a 1-3 year deal - especially if he can create a bidding war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Mann Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 DB solidifies the heel turn... in KC only... and for a week or so at most... we'll be over it soon. Also, Pence is jacked. I had no idea. "One of these two men in the picture is a former multiple-time WWE World Champion. Which one is it?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIPPA Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Heck - Rafael Soriano was about 6 weeks away from making $14 million for 2015 since the Nats would have totally picked up his option before he shit the bed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Known as Dan Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 He isn't accepting so it isn't an issue but yes - $15 million is below market value From trade rumors predictions 13. David Robertson – Cubs. Robertson is the best free agent reliever this winter, and the 29-year-old may be aiming to top Jonathan Papelbon’s four-year, $50MM deal. Indeed, a reliever of Robertson’s caliber hasn’t hit the free agent market since Papelbon three years ago. The Yankees will tender a one-year, $15.3MM qualifying offer, which Robertson should easily turn down in search of a career payday. The Cubs and White Sox are other potential fits given large amounts of payroll space and protected first-round picks. And if you don't think the Cubs then - it is quite easy to picture the Tigers give him insane cash after the year they had with their pen Or perhaps the Nats I am not disagreeing in regards to whether it is a good investment or not - just that the Yanks were most assuredly going to offer him a QO because of the way the market was dictating PVC~! and all that Maybe your right, but. I just can't see anyone really going all in on a guy with one year experience as a closer, and while it was solid, it wasn't amazing. And I can't see the Cubs signing Robertson. Rondon was just as good if not better at Closer, we have Strop and Ramirez ready to step in if he falters, and really strong young arms in the minors that profile well as a potential closer. For all the talk about the Cubs prospects lacking arms, we certainly aren't lacking for potentially dominate bullpen arms. The Cubs going for him angle was just a "hey, this team has money, maybe it will be them" If we do go big time for a bullpen arm, Miller makes a lot more sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdA Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Well, one would hope teams are getting smarter about PVC'S~!!!! and all. But $16 million/year for Robertson isn't totally out there either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Known as Dan Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Well, one would hope teams are getting smarter about PVC'S~!!!! and all. But $16 million/year for Robertson isn't totally out there either. I think it's starting to be, or will be viewed as such pretty soon. Young power arms out of the pen are becoming common place. Easy to find, scout, draft, develop and use. The Cubs themselves have made there entire bullpen cornerstones from scratch: Strop was with Arrieta when we gave up Feldman, we got Grimm and Ramirez in the Garza trade (as well as Edwards, our best pitching prospect, and Olt, who I haven't completely given up on yet), and got Rondon in the Rule 5. Baseball is literally swimming with young arms that can be there, good good for a few years and be gone. The market just needs to adjust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabe Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Re: Robertson - since when are closers with a 3.08 ERA all that tough to find? He strikes out a ton of guys, no question, but is he truly elite? Nah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabe Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 You can not be in love with his bat numbers, but after he left NY, they sure as hell felt him missing behind the plate, regardless of his batting production. Fair enough. Martin would probably be worth it if you're going all-in to try and win this year. Grow your young staff, win big, blah blah blah. But he's probably going to only play 105-115 games, tops, and you can expect him to drop off pretty hard in 2016 and beyond. Do you really want to drop $50-60m on a guy like that when you aren't winning the Series in 2015? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilwaldo Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 If you are the Cubs you can afford to wait on a closer. Top of the rotation starter is a different subject. If you feel that you are 2 years away and the guy is there you make the move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Known as Dan Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 You can not be in love with his bat numbers, but after he left NY, they sure as hell felt him missing behind the plate, regardless of his batting production.Fair enough. Martin would probably be worth it if you're going all-in to try and win this year. Grow your young staff, win big, blah blah blah. But he's probably going to only play 105-115 games, tops, and you can expect him to drop off pretty hard in 2016 and beyond. Do you really want to drop $50-60m on a guy like that when you aren't winning the Series in 2015? No. The main assets he presents (pitch framing, leadership, ability to call a game) aren't really something that fall in age. I'd worry about paying him in last year, but why do ewe suddenly think this will be his last productive year defensively, and doesn't have a couple more in him? All this to defend a player I don't even want on the Cubs much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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