WWE Network Conversation

[zendragon]

Having read Bill Watts' book earlier this year I'm enjoying your mid-south recaps

[Curt McGirt]

18 hours ago, Cobra Commander said:

a 100 pound bag of wheat

Uh... what? Ummmm. Hmmm... uhhhhhhhhwhy? 

[Cobra Commander]

19 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

Uh... what? Ummmm. Hmmm... uhhhhhhhhwhy? 

I wasn't alive in 1983 but a few late 1983 events of note:

The US had a grain embargo on the Soviet Union in 1980 in response to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. That wasn't actually in effect in 1983 as Reagan rolled it back since while he doesn't like communists, all the American farmers who would make money exporting grain would prefer exporting grain.

The Soviet Union shot down KAL-007 in September 1983, which killed hundreds including a siting US Congressman (who was also the chairman of the far-right John Birch Society). There might have been talk about another wheat/grain embargo in response to that. I don't know when they decided to bring Nikolai aboard but he was on Mid-South TV in September 1983 so they either brought him in because Russia was fresh in the news or it was amazing timing on their part.

Anyways, the non-exploiting deaths storyline reason for Nikolai doing things was about the upcoming Olympics where there was a rumored Soviet boycott and Nikolai would wear a "1980 Moscow Olympics" shirt around.

Also. The US invaded Grenada at the end of October 1983. The Day After aired on ABC in the middle of November 1983. I don't know if the commentary was in the can when it was first taped or if they taped anything to acknowledge events that happened between the taping and the airing. So I doubt Bill Watts riffed on The Day After on some random December 1983 episode of Mid-South.

So since it would be unwieldy to hit Dusty with a model of KAL-007. They probably said "hey, we need something for our Russian heel to hit someone with" and they loaded up at a feed store in Louisiana or something. That bag did not hold up as soon as it hit Dusty and I don't know if they had to gimmick it or if that bag was just naturally about to fall apart at any moment

Although for all the joking about the whole "hitting him with a bag of wheat" thing, knowing what we know about concussions, it's probably a legit risk to hit someone high with a heavy object. Or to drop him to a concrete floor.

Bill Watts, while looking and talking like a meathead jock, had the sort of attention to detail that I'd hope for from the obsessively overdetailed dorks that get way into wrestling.

Mid-South TV was some of my favorite stuff that I saw for the first time when JustinTV launched and people started streaming old wrestling on there.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Cobra Commander

[odessasteps]

Using a Russian wrestler using a bag of wheat is brilliant, perhaps topped on by Russians who used a red shovel to bury their opponents.

for more on this, i refer you to our pod w Greg Klein about the Russian Flag Burial angle. /cheap plug 

[Cobra Commander]

Looking at Google and potentially wrecking my recommended ads on here but I found a 100lb bag of wheat selling for $26.99. Not sure what the price was in 1983 but that's probably pretty good value for a wrestling foreign object.

Sadly this whole thing does not appear to have led to Dusty/Nikolai in a bullrope match where a bag of grain was on the rope.

[Curt McGirt]

Ah, thanks for the history lesson. I was born less than a month after that episode aired (Dec. 8th), and despite my '80s knowledge didn't know about that plane attack. Good job on the Congressman, shame about the rest.

[Cobra Commander]

depending on who/what you believe, the whole KAL-007 shootdown could have been even more momentous

Quote

United States Congressman Larry McDonald from Georgia, who at the time was also the second president of the conservative John Birch Society, was on the flight. Senator Jesse Helms of North Carolina, Senator Steve Symms of Idaho, and Representative Carroll Hubbard of Kentucky (who cancelled his reservations for the trip at the last moment) were aboard sister flight KAL 015, which flew 15 minutes behind KAL 007; they were headed, along with McDonald on KAL 007, to Seoul, South Korea, in order to attend the ceremonies for the thirtieth anniversary of the U.S.–South Korea Mutual Defense Treaty. The Soviets contended former U.S. president Richard Nixon was to have been seated next to Larry McDonald on KAL 007 but that the CIA warned him not to go, according to the New York Post and Telegraph Agency of the Soviet Union (TASS); this was denied by Nixon.

Gotta love the Post getting a shoutout next to TASS.

I'm pretty confident that Bill Watts mentioned his Estonian-born wife (who ended up getting the tape library in the divorce) several times in regards to those Russians and how evil they are.

The Volkoff thing really built towards turning Darsow into a Russian sympathizer which was also pretty clever booking compared to all the other Minnesotans that they just turned into Russians without much of a build.

[Curt McGirt]

Oh man, if they knocked off Nixon the country might not have lasted long enough to have The Day After keep Reagan from starting the apocalypse; he probably would have just went and bombed them anyway. It's crazy thinking about things like this. I just finished a book about the IRA trying to assassinate Margaret Thatcher with a bomb in Brighton and if she had been in her hotel bathroom something like twenty minutes longer, where she'd been sitting on the pot working on her speech for the next day, or if she'd been in the room right next door, she'd have been killed and the whole history of the Cold War and everything else would have changed. 

I knew about Helms but of course Symms and Hubbard are scum too. Hubbard is still "serving" (what a term for it) in Congress at the age of 85 and in fact flipped to Republican in 2019 because the Dems were too liberal for him. Yeah. 

[Cobra Commander]

Hubbard was actually bounced out in 1992 but he unsuccessfully ran for office a few more times in the 2000s after his prison sentence wrapped up. It feels like some solid FBI humor that Hubbard was codenamed "Elmer Fudd" for his time as an FBI Informant.

But yeah, stuff like starting wars over balloons and getting perilously close to murdering Richard Nixon is the sort of stuff that inspires pop songs about nuclear war.

[Curt McGirt]

I totally misread (mis-skimmed?) Hubbard's Wiki entry  Me brain no work so good

[Cobra Commander]

Taking a step back from doomsday and going backwards a year to...

Mid-South Wrestling (11/6/1982)

One week after the last time I was in 1982.

Boyd is at the desk but before you think he's actually being allowed to work alone, he throws it to Bill Watts who is at ringside with Ted DiBiase, Hacksaw Duggan and Matt Borne. Bill tells Ted DiBiase that his father would roll over in his grave over what Ted did and Ted pretty much brushes off this criticism (hey it's his adopted Dad, Bill). Bill pivots to trying to reference Matt Borne's dad instead. So we get a replay of what happened last week. JYD gets pinned after interference from Duggan in a Gorilla Suit. Certainly he will leave for 90 days and won't be back until February. Bill notes that JYD has never let someone else do his fighting (foreshadowing!) and DiBiase notes he has 90 days to think about these things.

I don't know if there's any episodes with just Boyd commentating on the Network or the Internet but I gotta imagine the place just deteriorated into anarchy with Boyd being left alone.

Before we get to see Tony Atlas wrestle, here's footage of him working out from 2 years ago in Atlanta. Hey we gotta fill out this hour of programming. The important thing is to have a spotter so that you're not in a video trying to lift the bar off of your throat as the Isley Brothers plays in the background.

Starting off with Bob Stabler vs Tony Atlas: But Hacksaw Duggan comes out to interrupt things because as the Louisiana Champ, he's allowed to do these things (must be a thing with the Louisiana commission and their standards of integrity in government). Duggan challenges Tony Atlas to match him in pushups. Duggan does his pushups and Atlas does pushups, mixing in some one armed pushups. Duggan does two one-armed pushups and demands more Atlas pushups. And then Duggan finally stomps Atlas as he's on the mat. Bob Stabler departs for a moment as Duggan and Atlas brawl. Duggan misses a spear and Stabler tries to jump Atlas and is dispatched like an afterthought. Marty Lunde also shows up to get beat on. Duggan is now bleeding and Atlas sends the heels away.

So now time to see Ted DiBiase take on S. Lee. S. Lee unrolls a banner to say that S. Lee is Stagger Lee. The fans and DiBiase seem to think this Stagger Lee is somebody they know. Stagger Lee wins with a big slam. Then he puts a foreign object in his mask, headbutting DiBiase to the floor. And that's that. Bang bang boom. Just unleash your next big angle in half the time of a pushup contest.

Next up Vinnie Romeo vs Hacksaw Duggan. Duggan shows up with a bandage on his head, yeah they probably knew that they were gonna make this guy a face eventually (like very soon eventually in the scheme of things). Duggan beats up on Romeo. Bill Watts say that if you can't prove who any of the masked guys are, who's to say who Stagger Lee really is. Duggan wins with a spear. Which is not the spear that you saw from Goldberg or Edge or Monty Brown, but you probably knew that.

Tag Team Action now. The Grapplers vs Col. Buck Robley and Mr. Wrestling II. I think we can rule out the possibility that Buck Robley is Stagger Lee. We got another tag match after this, but DiBiase and Borne bought out the contracts of Marty Lunde and Alexei Smirnoff. Buck Robley has the look of a man who lives in a pickup track. Mil Mascaras and Chavo Guerrero are coming next week. Wrestling II gets compared to Kenny Stabler and George Blanda at the same time. Thanks to II's mask, Buck Robley is technically the older looking member of the face team. I'm interpreting this "Nobody calls me yellow" claim by Robley in the same spirit of the "There's always someone on Twitter arguing with no one. Saying stuff like "but I was told Steph Curry wasn't a good shooter". II gets the pin after prancing around, doing jazzhands and hitting the Million Dollar kneelift.

Our next match is Jesse Barr vs Kamala. Are there a lot of Portland dudes in this promotion right now or what. Kamala just no-sells that dropkick and goes to work. Gotta love that this gimmick is built on the concept of "don't work like an actual wrestler". Watts putting over how much distance Kamala covers on his splashes. Kamala wins after two splashes.

Next on the docket is Iron Mike Sharp & Mr. Olympia vs Matt Borne & Ted DiBiase: Ted DiBiase is so mad over Stagger Lee that he's taking on another match. DiBiase insists that Stagger Lee is the Junk Yard Dog but Mr. Olympia insists that you don't know who any of the masked wrestlers are so. Hey, babyface Iron Mike Sharpe. Bill Watts restates that they just send checks to wrestlers and if they cash them, good for them and that DiBiase will have to unmask Stagger Lee to get justice. Also you wouldn't think a dude hanging out with children in a gorilla suit would turn out to be an evil wrestler. Bill Watts just mentions "hey, we might hold a tournament for the Brass Knucks title, which I held when I retired". Gotta love shows where the boss is on commentary going off on whatever. Iron Mike Sharpe is apparently called the Ironman at least according to a guy who can't say Duggan right. Olympia with some nearfalls on DiBiase before getting thrown to the floor. Bill Watts takes time to remind us that Mid-South is awesome with high ratings. The Ref is distracted by Iron Mike Sharpe, Olympia puts Borne in the sleeper but DiBiase hits Olympia with the black glove of doom so that Borne could get the pin. As we close, Boyd Pierce notes Mil Mascaras is a cinema idol. Thanks Boyd.

Edited September 27, 2023 by Cobra Commander

[odessasteps]

S. Lee is, IIRC, Bill Alfonso. 

[Technico Support]

Stuff I just randomly watched:

Kurt Angle vs Shane McMahon, KotR 2001: Holeeeee fuck what a mess this is.  Early into the match, Shane potatoes Kurt, splitting his eyebrow open.  Not a ton of stuff happens UNTIL we get to the shit this match is famous for.  There's a suplex in the aisle where Kurt breaks his tailbone -- and that's where the "I think I broke my tailbone" part of the "don't try this at home" montage came from -- and he's moving so gingerly after that it hurts to watch.  Doesn't stop him from trying to overhead suplex Shane through a glass panel, which DOES NOT BREAK and Shane goes straight down on his head and shoulder.  Since it's the early 2000s and nobody knew anything about concussions until after Benoit, they REDO THE SPOT.  Shane blasts through the glass and is bloodied instantly.  I guess this is tempered glass, which is that much-ballyhooed "safer glass to use," but this is gross and only gets worse from there.  Now behind the set, Kurt tries to overhead B2B Shane back through another pane of glass, back into the arena.  THIS ONE DOESN'T BREAK EITHER.  I forgot all about this sequence.  Shane, again, lands right on his fucking head.  Since it's the early 2000s and nobody knew anything about concussions until after Benoit, they REDO THE SPOT.  And HOLY FUCK, the glass, again, refuses to break and Shane AGAIN lands on his head.  This is now three times, if you're scoring at home (or if you're alone), that Shane has landed directly on his head on concrete.  Fuuuuuuuuck.  Sometimes Meltzer is spot on and when he said "don't use glass because glass doesn't know how to work," that was one of those times.  Some sense of reason finally kicks in and Kurt just yeets Shane through the glass in an easier way.  Back in the arena, both guys are bleeding hardway from various spots on their bodies because of the glass.  Kurt uses a roadie box to wheel Shane back to the ring.  Shane kicks out of an Angle Slam so Kurt potatoes him with a board a few times and then uses the board as a platform to him an avalanche Angle Slam for the pin, thank God and Jesus and Mr. McMahon.  How Shane can even form a sentence in 2023 is beyond me.  This was insane and you need to watch it again.

Hulk Hogan vs Randy Savage, Detroit, April 26, 1986: This is from Peacock's truncated version of the "Hulk Hogan's Unreleased Collector's Series" DVD.  It's a fun, unoffensive little house show match.  Maybe it's from their very first house show run together?  Anyway, both guys play all the hits you know and love.  Hogan isn't sporting the red and yellow yet but he's already gone fully into the "kick out of your finish and then Hulk Up" formula here.  They switch up the finish, though, ostensibly keeping Savage a little stronger.  Rather than eating Hogan's finishing sequence after the Hulk Up, Savage cuts it off and then, later, goes for a Flying Nothing into a Hogan boot and gets pinned that way.  He gets his heat back somewhat by attacking Hogan after the match.  He escapes, only to be carried back in by Hogan, but then escapes again top Hogan can pose.  Good enough for a historical curiosity.  Joe Louis Arena listings are spotty on the history website, so I can't check if they followed this up with a grudge match on the next loop.

I'm glad I avoided an easy Bubba the Love Sponge joke when talking about unreleased Hogan footage.

Edited September 27, 2023 by Technico Support

[Mister TV]

8 hours ago, Cobra Commander said:

Next on the docket is Iron Mike Sharp & Mr. Olympia vs Matt Borne & Ted DiBiase: Ted DiBiase is so mad over Stagger Lee that he's taking on another match. DiBiase insists that Stagger Lee is the Junk Yard Dog but Mr. Olympia insists that you don't know who any of the masked wrestlers are so. Hey, babyface Iron Mike Sharpe. Bill Watts restates that they just send checks to wrestlers and if they cash them, good for them and that DiBiase will have to unmask Stagger Lee to get justice. Also you wouldn't think a dude hanging out with children in a gorilla suit would turn out to be an evil wrestler. Bill Watts just mentions "hey, we might hold a tournament for the Brass Knucks title, which I held when I retired". Gotta love shows where the boss is on commentary going off on whatever. Iron Mike Sharpe is apparently called the Ironman at least according to a guy who can't say Duggan right. Olympia with some nearfalls on DiBiase before getting thrown to the floor. Bill Watts takes time to remind us that Mid-South is awesome with high ratings. The Ref is distracted by Iron Mike Sharpe, Olympia puts Borne in the sleeper but DiBiase hits Olympia with the black glove of doom so that Borne could get the pin. As we close, Boyd Pierce notes Mil Mascaras is a cinema idol. Thanks Boyd.

The southern promotions always over complicated the explanation of how masked wrestlers got paid. Why "we send a check to a PO Box and it eventually gets cashed" and not just "whatever masked wrestler gets paid in cash", or for a heel his pay is sent via wire transfer to an offshore account.

Edited September 27, 2023 by Mister TV

[SirSmUgly]

12 minutes ago, Mister TV said:

The southern promotions always over complicated the explanation of how masked wrestlers got paid. Why "we send a check to a PO Box and it eventually gets cashed" and not just "whatever masked wrestler gets paid in cash", or for a heel his pay is sent via wire transfer to an offshore account.

Because those are illegal methods of payment and southern promoters were out here keeping kayfabe, I guess.

Imagine an IRS agent showing up and asking Bill Watts if he paid payroll taxes on his masked workers' salaries because he claimed to be paying the Grappler under the table on commentary, and Watts responding with I DON'T HAVE TO TELL YOU ANYTHING, TAXATION IS THEFT ANYWAY. 

[Technico Support]

4 minutes ago, SirSmUgly said:

Because those are illegal methods of payment and southern promoters were out here keeping kayfabe, I guess.

Imagine an IRS agent showing up and asking Bill Watts if he paid payroll taxes on his masked workers' salaries because he claimed to be paying the Grappler under the table on commentary, and Watts responding with I DON'T HAVE TO TELL YOU ANYTHING, TAXATION IS THEFT ANYWAY. 

Bill Watts: Sovereign Citizen was not the joke I thought I needed today

[Mister TV]

6 minutes ago, SirSmUgly said:

Because those are illegal methods of payment and southern promoters were out here keeping kayfabe, I guess.

Imagine an IRS agent showing up and asking Bill Watts if he paid payroll taxes on his masked workers' salaries because he claimed to be paying the Grappler under the table on commentary, and Watts responding with I DON'T HAVE TO TELL YOU ANYTHING, TAXATION IS THEFT ANYWAY. 

At that time in kayfabe sense pro-wrestling was a form of "Prize Fighting" like boxing, hence mentions of "the winners share of the purse" once and awhile, the masked wrestler would be on the hook with the tax man, they wouldn't have been any type of employee.

[Cobra Commander]

7 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

Bill Watts: Sovereign Citizen was not the joke I thought I needed today

Long Bill Watts rant about how the wrestlers being independent contractors means that they’re sovereign entities

[odessasteps]

This weeks BTS about 1992 had a big section of Watts talking about WCW to Dave. A lot of what you’d expect. 

[SirSmUgly]

Not a fan of the new opening music on the 3/23/85 MSW. Change it back. 

Not a fan of Terry Taylor being the new North American Champion, which happened the episode before this one. Change it back.

I am a fan of Butch Reed and John Nord having a street fight, though. Nord is pretty fun. 

[odessasteps]

They famously had a locker room fight in Mid South. 

At least 5 YT videos discussing it including both the participants.  

[SirSmUgly]

Yeah, and I believe everyone says someone different won the fight. 

[Stefanie Sparkleface]

5 hours ago, odessasteps said:

S. Lee is, IIRC, Bill Alfonso. 

I thought it was Pee Wee Anderson. It would've fit since he started reffing there shortly thereafter.

[SirSmUgly]

Watching '85 MSW: Just put the big gold on Jake Roberts, Watts. Oddly, I think Jake's said that Watts didn't rate him, which is complete nonsense if true. The guy walks out as a heel and within the first few weeks, he gets cheers and "DDT" chants that only increase. Turn him face, but don't change his act and just let him dick around the heels. It's obvious money. 

[Cobra Commander]

2 hours ago, SirSmUgly said:

I think Jake's said that Watts didn't rate him, which is complete nonsense if true.

I mean, who was the matchmaker that was also keeping tabs on the roster for shows that Watts wasn't at... and wasn't said matchmaker also a consistently harsh critic of Jake Roberts despite being Jake's father?