Jump to content
DVDVR Message Board
Sign in to follow this  
Elsalvajeloco

UFC 212: Aldo vs. Holloway (6/3/2017) - Rio de Janeiro, Brazil (Jeunesse Arena)

Recommended Posts

Aldo can take a freaking punch though, it took about a 90 second barrage(or at least it seemed like it) to take him down. . . 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The punch that really got him was when he was standing straight up and pulling back a little. Honestly, that's going to get damn near everyone. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jose Aldo at least could've had the decency to stay and thank the fans who all came to see him fight.  But nope.  He once again showed his true colors tonight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That was a tough fight to lose so I don't blame him. Plus, he was just punched in the head several times and was probably a bit out of it. BTW the arena cleared out when Buffer was announcing the decision. Brazil doesn't have the most understanding crowds.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also give Cub Swanson a rematch.  Cub Swanson has more than earned a UFC title shot.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, TheVileOne said:

Also give Cub Swanson a rematch.  Cub Swanson has more than earned a UFC title shot.  

Edgar is getting the next shot...probably in MSG so Swanson is going to be waiting until early next year most likely.

Personally, I would like to Lamas vs. Swanson II since Korean Zombie is out of the 214 fight. He can try to avenge a loss near his hometown.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

That was a tough fight to lose so I don't blame him. Plus, he was just punched in the head a bazillion times and was probably a bit out of it. BTW the arena cleared out when Buffer was announcing the decision. Brazil doesn't have the most understanding crowds.

Fixed that for you.

How he didn't go out on some of those shots amazed me ( I actually thought he did a few times when watching in the moment). Whether he lasted the final 30 seconds or not, the fight was over at that point.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Elsalvajeloco said:

Edgar is getting the next shot...probably in MSG so Swanson is going to be waiting until early next year most likely.

Personally, I would like to Lamas vs. Swanson II since Korean Zombie is out of the 214 fight. He can try to avenge a loss near his hometown.

Swanson arguably should've gotten a shot before hand when he was on a six fight winning streak.  Instead it went to McGregor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

Swanson arguably should've gotten a shot before hand when he was on a six fight winning streak.

Except he fought Frankie Edgar in a title eliminator and lost pretty damn handily. Thems da breaks.

Now, he doesn't have to fight Edgar for a title shot so he might as well fight someone like Lamas. In addition, it helps him rectify a blemish on his record.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Setsuna said:

Fixed that for you.

How he didn't go out on some of those shots amazed me ( I actually thought he did a few times when watching in the moment). Whether he lasted the final 30 seconds or not, the fight was over at that point.

 

That's Big John McCarthy's fault for not stopping the fight when it should've been stopped.  That was way past the point of intelligent defense.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought the same thing and he was pretty obviously second-guessing himself multiple times there. Trying to find the balance between giving the hometown champion the appropriate time to recover or stopping the fight probably erred too much to the former in this case.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

That's Big John McCarthy's fault for not stopping the fight when it should've been stopped.  That was way past the point of intelligent defense.  

For a title fight of high magnitude, he stopped it when he should have. Aldo was moving every time Big John gave him a warning. He was cognizant unlike someone who would just turtle up. Once Max sunk in the hooks, it was over with because he couldn't spin to get off his stomach. Earlier, he was trying to sweep Max so he wouldn't get mount. Aldo fought like a BJJ fighter trying to improve his position. There was one point where Holloway was maybe a inch or so from sliding off Aldo's back. That would have been crazy. McCarthy reffed like someone who has knowledge of the combatants. This isn't like two dudes battling in a crappy casino in the middle of nowhere. He gave a P4P fighter who has shown incredible heart in the past all the opportunity the world to save himself and stopped when Aldo basically had no options left.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not it really didn't.  Aldo ate a ton of shots on the ground and more than he should've before it was finally stopped.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

Not it really didn't.  Aldo ate a ton of shots on the ground and more than he should've before it was finally stopped.  

Erick Silva was in a worse condition than Aldo when he got dropped and that was a bad stop earlier (Herdy doesn't need to ref any UFC fights again). Referees do look in on fighters and give instructions to them to let them know they need to move of the fight is over. Aldo moved everytime from his back to giving up half guard basically. When he finally stopped, BJM stopped the fight. That's how they teach you to ref.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that's an argument neither of you is going to win because it's completely subjective. I see both sides of the coin - there were times Aldo's hands would kind of drop like he'd been KO'd and I was sure it was over but then he'd start moving right away and the fight carried on. Ultimately, I thought he ended up taking too many direct punches but I don't think I had pinpointed an exact moment the fight should have been stopped. Retrospectively, knowing he never does recover, yeah, the fight went on too long.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If anyone follows like Paul Gift or someone like that takes those classes under Sean Wheelock (IIRC) in Missouri and heard interviews from officials, that's kinda a big point of contention but it seems to be uniform. You give audible instructions to a fighter. The fighter must follow those instructions in a reasonable timeframe. If he or she doesn't, you stop the fight. You'll never (or rarely to be safer) see someone like Herb Dean who is the loudest and most vocal referees give an instruction, the fighter follows that instruction, and he just stops the fight anyway. You hear "Move fighter" two or three times. If the fighter doesn't improve position, it's a wrap. When Holloway made it virtually impossible for Aldo to move, BJM stops the fight after giving that instruction. Too many punches is relative because it's a high level fight, and Aldo likely didn't lose consciousness at any point really. If this was some prelim fight or just two sweaty heavyweights with little stamina, he would have stopped it earlier. I've seen him do that for years (especially for like recent Bellator shows in California where he refs bumfight after bumfight on undercards). A P4P fighter fighting another P4P fighter? Yeah, it went a little longer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Max Holloway is a legend now.  Dana, pay the man.  He wore a platinum tie to the press conference.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Max Holloway went from knowing minimal BJJ as a teenage late replacement against Dustin Poirier to becoming an elite fighter in the span of 5 years and 4 months at age 25.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The most impressive thing about that Max Holloway win is how damn good Jose Aldo looked in the first two rounds.  Aldo hit him with multiple shots that would have ended just about anyone else in the world, and Holloway barely even reacted.  That crazy sequence where Aldo hit him with a stiff left to the face, followed by a flurry of big shots and a flying fucking knee, made me think that Holloway was going to get knocked out.  Holloway ate those shots, ate a few more in the second, and eventually got comfortable enough to just stand in front of Aldo and start trading punches.  That kid's tough as nails and his chin is unreal.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, supremebve said:

The most impressive thing about that Max Holloway win is how damn good Jose Aldo looked in the first two rounds.  Aldo hit him with multiple shots that would have ended just about anyone else in the world, and Holloway barely even reacted.  That crazy sequence where Aldo hit him with a stiff left to the face, followed by a flurry of big shots and a flying fucking knee, made me think that Holloway was going to get knocked out.  Holloway ate those shots, ate a few more in the second, and eventually got comfortable enough to just stand in front of Aldo and start trading punches.  That kid's tough as nails and his chin is unreal.  

This is the first time I remember (other than like watching Kala Hose fight a super gassed Phil Baroni on a stream years back) where the Just Scrap mantra worked for a Hawaiian fighter and wasn't entirely taking a shitload of punishment for no reason at all. It's definitely a first for a high level title fight. That whole mantra has been kinda a detriment for MMA fighting in Hawaii just like the Bushido spirit thing in Japan. Being tough is something that you need to have, but no fighter can solely rely on that one trait. It was different ten years ago when you had Kala Hose, Ross Ebanez, Mark Moreno, and Mike Aina coming up in the post SuperBrawl/ICON Sport/whatever TJ Thompson promotion era. All those dudes eventually faded away because the sport itself progressed past the novelty of Hawaiian fighters being tough and scrappy brawlers. In addition, you had more guys going to the mainland to train and fight because the state of Hawaii sabotaged MMA there (the whole reason UFC hasn't had a show there) so no one could get any quality fights on a consistent basis.

As Brian Stann said on commentary, it's not like Holloway went to a big gym on the mainland to go train during this winning streak. His team has built camps around him and allow him to grow as a fighter. He can be a tough Hawaiian fighter, and it not be the entirety of his MMA skillset. He started as that when he debuted in the UFC five years back, but this ain't the same dude who fought Hawaiian journeymen like Harris Sarmiento and Bryson Kamaka. He is just on whole different level. He can be an offensive stalwart, but he can show great defense (the Stephens fight being the best example). When the fights get rough like the first portion of the fight last night, he has the Hawaiian toughness in his back pocket to pull out.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Max Holloway is well on his way to becoming one of the best featherweight fighters of all time.  If he fought Conor McGregor tomorrow at lightweight I would pick him to win.  I am definitely picking him against Edgar.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

Max Holloway is well on his way to becoming one of the best featherweight fighters of all time.  If he fought Conor McGregor tomorrow at lightweight I would pick him to win.  I am definitely picking him against Edgar.

I still think Conor is a tough matchup for Holloway just because Conor can land that left hand on just about anyone and create offense from that, and Max still allows for people to close the distance on him. That proved to be Alvarez's undoing. If he has to walk to McGregor, that also puts him at risk. He would still be a sizeable underdog against McGregor for good reason. Against Edgar, I still think it is 60-40 Holloway but he can't give up takedowns to Edgar. Edgar also has a potent boxing game when he wants to.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

I still think Conor is a tough matchup for Holloway just because Conor can land that left hand on just about anyone and create offense from that, and Max still allows for people to close the distance on him. That proved to be Alvarez's undoing. If He has to walk to McGregor, that also puts him at risk. He would still be a sizeable underdog against McGregor for good reason. Against Edgar, I still think it is 60-40 Holloway but he can't give up takedowns to Edgar. Edgar also has a potent boxing game when he wants to.

Also Frankie Edgar's a tough bastard. You can hurt Frankie and he recovers, prime example against Gray Maynard at UFC 125 in one of the best MMA fights ever. The Answer has never been stopped.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, The Natural said:

Also Frankie Edgar's a tough bastard. You can hurt Frankie and he recovers, prime example against Gray Maynard at UFC 125 in one of the best MMA fights ever. The Answer has never been stopped.

No one ever stopped Nogueira before he stepped into the cage with Frank Mir.   Holloway will be the first fighter to stop him.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, TheVileOne said:

No one ever stopped Nogueira before he stepped into the cage with Frank Mir.   Holloway will be the first fighter to stop him.

You get fighters finished by strikes or submission for the first time. I still fancy Frankie for his durability, takedowns and boxing as Elsalvajeloco pointed out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...