TNA NEWS and DISCUSSION THREAD

[greenbat]

Roode couldn't get a tryout as a free agent? When was this? I don't buy it, HHH and The Rock are both fans.

 

In terms of TNA guys who have made a decent career, I think Roode and Storm are prety good moneywise. Styles is IWGP Champion.

 

R-Truth has had a good career - he's mostly a jobber but he'll have made his money. Christian certainly used TNA to show he could be more than a midcard heel. CM Punk was in TNA.

 

Right now, there's probably only a few guys on the roster the WWE would consider worth signing - EC3, Robbie E, maybe Roode/Storm, maybe Bram (he's married to Charlotte after all). I don't really know what Kevin Sullivan's point is?

 

There's a whole deal that Pritchard let Roode's contract expire on purpose so he could have a chance to go to the E and no one ever called. I'm not saying he's not good or talented or charismatic or whatever, what I'm saying is because of how litigious TNA has been in the past the E wants nothing to do with their talent. They have NXT, Steen, Devitt, KENTA, a million flippy guys, they have a whole roster of dudes, whats the point in worrying about these guys?

 

CM Punk was in TNA for a cup of coffee eons ago, no one cares, he made his name elsewhere.

 

R Truth was signed before the contract shenanigans and is a pure jobber.

 

Christian added a year or two to his career but he did NOT want to accept his HOF plaque that he was only forced into BECAUSE TNA WAS LITIGIOUS about the Flair HOF deal.

 

Styles is IWGP champion but the fact is he tried to get into the E and was TURNED DOWN! They gave Davey fuckin Richrds a (semi) televised tryout and Styles couldn't even get in the door, what does that tell you?

 

WWE WANTS NOTHING TO DO WITH TNA TALENT!

 

TNA has created a stink on its own talent and there's enough talent that WWE doesn't see the point in bothering. None of the current TNA roster will ever wind up on WWE television. They have a stacked NXT roster, a full card of ready for the bigs midcarders and enough talent to keep plucking from (Ricochet for example) that they don't need motherfuckin Bram. Jesus Christ.

 

TNA is a cancer on the industry. The talent is underpaid and their chances of going to the big leagues are DESTROYED once they sign that shitty contract TNA puts in front of them. Who have they brought in recently? Not Ricochet. Not ReDragon. Homicide and Lowki. One guy who was never gonna make it anyway and another who RETIRED! The only people they can sign are guys who were NEVER GONNA FUCKIN MAKE IT ANYWAY! Then it's Brodus Clay, SNITSKY! and some WWECW nobody. Goddamn people, wake up and smell the coffer, TNA is a curse. I'd rather wander around DGUSA, NJPW and ROH for 5 years hoping to go to NXT then sign with TNA and work at a Sunglass Hut knowing your chances are over with.

 

Another thing, they used to have a partnership with NJPW, the second biggest group in the world. They did tours, filmed televised special,a dn shared talent. They had KAUCHIKA OKADA! On the roster and did jack shit, pissed away that partnership, they're selling less than 250 tickets to TV tapings, the PPV revenue is beyond dead, their big BFG PPV is a mess propped up by a fledgling Japanese company just to not lose money, their biggest angle right now is bringing is a semi-famous-to-nerds female wrestler to squash a champ who's been around forever that drew the LOWEST MAIN EVENT RATINGS in memory.

 

WTF are you talking about when people defend this shitstorm? They HAVE NO TELEVISION DEAL! Their precious Million viewers a week aren't worth shit to Spike, a very middle-to-low range network. They're going to take a pay decrease and I shutter to think what the TV will look like then.

 

Think about 2 months ago, they sold out the Manhattan Center (not really but whatever) 3 nights in a row, had a rabid crowd, had a big company angle blowoff, we were all thinking ti was the turning point. Then Spike cancelled the contract and its been deeeeeepressing ever since. Goddamn, this company is awful. CZW draws better right now. Fuck, Ian Rotten has a better argument for being on television than these schmucks. Kurt Angle could draw better at an autograph signing than this shit.

 

They don\t sell PPVs, merchandise, tickets, they have no outside revenue whatsoever, without a TV contract they are COMPLETELY DEAD! Fuckin move on, this company is the epitome is garbage wrestling. And I'll say it again, THE TALENT IS BEING FUCKED BY BEING EMPLOYED! They can't work half of the dates they could because of the PPV/Television rule.

 

If your pro wrestling talent you should want TNA to go away.

[jaedmc]

I feel like carrying that much hate in your heart is unhealthy.

[EN090]

I'm actually speechless. Post of the year, right there.

[greenbat]

I feel like carrying that much hate in your heart is unhealthy.

It's not hate, it's just so Fuckin obvious to me I can't believe anyone can't see it.

[OSJ]

Son, I really think that you need to calm the fuck down. Spewing that much vitriol is bad for you. And please, do proofread before posting, unintentional hilarity such as "I shutter to think" weakens the strength of your message. Now please, go watch some joshi, may I suggest a "Best of Akira Hokuto" comp? Or, perhaps check out something old school on the Network, watching Kabuki torment the Von Erichs is always good for a chuckle. Barring that, start a hobby, volunteer somewhere, meet a girl, just get out more; waking up screaming about TNA is no way to go through life.

[Matt D]

Yeah, at this stage, I'm pretty much under the opinion that the industry would be better without TNA.  I don't think that's some sort of blasphemous or ignorant position to have. That said, it should be. On paper, less places to work is never a good thing. Never. So that's a special testament to the constant mismanagement and ineptitude over the years. That said, it's not really worth getting worked up about.

[greenbat]

TrUst me, my social life is hauling ass right now. Don't diminish my argument by insinuating I'm a dork.

[EN090]

Looking past the utter insanity of that post, I'd like to make a larger point that most of the guys who've been in TNA aren't the types of wrestlers that WWE would go after, regardless of whether they've worked for TNA or not.

A short guy with a southern accent isn't exactly Vince McMahon's cup of tea (even though he actually was offered a developmental deal back in the day). Bobby Roode? Good worker, decent on the mic but probably seen as pretty bland in Vince's eyes and he's in his mid 30's. EC3, they just dropped the ball on and failed to recognize his talent. They would be idiots not to take him back. But the guys that were WWE-type workers got signed-- Monty Brown. They wanted to sign Abyss in 2004.

And sorry, saying that it would be better for the industry if they went under is the epitome of ignorance. They simply haven't done anything bad enough, certainly in recent memory, to justify that position.

[Craig H]

I think EC3 is the only one with a decent chance. Maybe Joe because of how much other wrestlers pull for him, but I would almost just want to see Joe in NXT and not on the big stage.

 

EC3 reminds me so much of Kenny "Mr. Beautiful" Santucci of MTVs The Challenge fame. I always thought Kenny would make for a good wrestler, but EC3 is basically doing the same schtick. 

[jaedmc]

I can't imagine caring about TNA enough to repeatedly tell people how bad it is. Everyone knows. Even EN090 has been critical of them. It's not exactly enlightening and kind of a waste of effort.

And honestly I don't think the business would be better OR worse if they died. I think it would be indifferent.

[greenbat]

And I disagree.

[jaedmc]

Yeah. We know. See what I mean?

[EN090]

I think EC3 is the only one with a decent chance. Maybe Joe because of how much other wrestlers pull for him, but I would almost just want to see Joe in NXT and not on the big stage.

EC3 reminds me so much of Kenny "Mr. Beautiful" Santucci of MTVs The Challenge fame. I always thought Kenny would make for a good wrestler, but EC3 is basically doing the same schtick.

He's fucking fabulous. I was watching that segment from a month ago of him and Spud getting arrested and it had me in tears.

"I know all the money in this town. I know Donald Trump! I know Bernie Madoff! I know Carmelo Anthony!"

[jaedmc]

What's the beat EC3 matches?

[EN090]

He's hasn't had anything really epic. His match with Eric Young this past week was fun. The Texas Death Match with Bully Ray at Slammiversary was entertainig. He's not anything that special in the ring but he's perfectly passable and can get better. His strength is his character and the he's comedy gold. Give him Miz's gimmick and he would blow Miz out the fucking water.

 

Check these out:

 

 

 

[OSJ]

I think Jae hit the nail on the head with regard to how the industry would view their demise. Complete indifference. There is really no one on their roster that is being courted elsewhere. No one that is being offered more money to work elsewhere is going to stay in TNA because of the "exposure". When the best that their main defender can offer up is a mid-card comedy act to rival the Miz, that doesn't speak well of the rest of the roster. There's a reason that the MIz (as bad as he is) still has a job, he's a tireless promoter for the company and a passable direct-to-dvd actor. You need an articulate guy to show up at a mall opening and tout the product? Miz is your man. You need a guy to go on local radio to hype a show, again, Miz is your man. The idea that a mid-carder from TNA would replace him is not logical at all. There's more to the guy than pathetic ring work and a comedy gimmick.

 

As for the talk of people being high on Joe, most of that talk was ten years ago when he was lights out good, now he's just another chubby guy that can't really cut a good promo, is indifferent and sloppy in-ring and is in his thirties. Not a lot of upside there, folks.

[Matt D]

The harm it does is along the lines of 1.) proliferating the idea that wrestling companies are incompetent to potential suitors and not worth the rating points relative to the crummy ad revenue and 2.) basically holding up a position in the market. I'm not saying that if they were gone, some other company would immediately fill their place, but it's likely it would have happened at some point in the last ten years and that company almost couldn't be worse as an entity no matter how hard they tried. They just might not have had so patient a money mark.

[EN090]

Pathetic in the ring is a bit strong. He's not fucking Jackie Gayda.

 

The point I was making is that with WWE being as high on comedy as they are, a guy that's funnier than their entire roster might get picked up. Unless he pissed someone off.

[Craig H]

As a worker, I think EC3 has a positive Value Above Kofi rating. He's probably better than Miz in ring, but he's got personality for days.

[EN090]

I just watched some of his stuff from NXT that I had never seen. Honest to god, he had to have pissed someone off to not get picked up. I don't get it.

[OSJ]

Maybe he honked HHH's nose or something, I have to agree, the guy can bring the funny and he's not inept in the ring. No, Joe isn't Jackie Gayda, but we're talking about a guy that not too long ago was in the discussion as "best in the world", he's gotten lazy, he's gotten sloppy, and I really can't say as I blame him, the train passed by without letting him get a seat.

[EN090]

The Jackie Gayda thing was in reference to EC3, not Joe. I thought you called his in-ring work pathetic.

 

 

And the idea that TNA's mere existance would somehow detract potential suitors from wrestling is just dumb. First, everyone knows what wrestling's reputation is among TV networks already so its not like they're ruining some pristine image. And second, the fact that they're the only wrestling company besides WWE to get national TV (twice, come January) shows that despite all their faults, they're not as incompetitant as some think.

[OSJ]

No, I was calling Miz's ring work pathetic, the guy is either uncoordinated or sloppy or both. The fact that he hasn't killed someone is a minor miracle. He's one of those guys that I shudder every time I see him work. Dude is just not safe. But like I said, he has his uses to the company in ways that I don't see EC3 replacing. I have to wonder why they don't do more with David Otunga, he's pretty limited in-ring, but the guy is bright and articulate and could easily be in a role as a mouthpiece for a tagteam that occasionally gets involved physically, (think Paul Ellering with the Roadies, despite the WSJ and sunglasses, no one every doubted that Precious Paul was a badass in his own right and that added a dimension to all of their non-squash matches.) I could easily see Otunga in a similar role.

 

As for the argument that TNA's existence hurts the value of wrestling as a tv product, I'm going to have to say "nay". I work with tv people as little as I have to, but I do work with them. One characteristic is a constant, the total arrogance that they can do anything better than anyone else. Show a tv producer a horribly unfunny sitcom and they'll immediately start crowing about how they would take the same lame premise and make it an Emmy-winner. There's no shortage of idiots out there who have never studied or worked in the wrestling business that think they can do it better than anyone else. Vince Russo is not an unpleasant aberration, he is (sadly) the norm. If a tv station wants wrestling programming and think that it suits their demographic, they will have no shortage of people coming out of the woodwork to proclaim that they are the next VKM. All it take is one money mark and there's a lot of them out there.

[Hollywood Cibernetico]

Lucha Underground is debuting this month. Oct 29th to be exact. I watched Lucha Underground's "Meet The Wrestlers" reel today and the FIRST person I see and hear is the heel authority figure. Why? Because TNA decided not to venture from the WWE authority angles in order to show the wrestling world that a wrestling company in the 21st century can/should be creative without the tired heel authority trope. TNA has used this trope as its bread and butter for years and did not blaze any new ground. Upstarts look at this and say "Hey! TNA is doing nothing new! So why do I!?". Next thing you know you have a company like Lucha Underground doing the exact same shit because no one else started that revolution to show that pro wrestling in the  21st century doesn't need to look, sound, and feel one way. It doesn't need to be booked and written in one way. TNA is setting a bad example. Lucha Underground has too much backing right now to try and blaze a new trail.

 

Everyone is looking up and not around. The 90's boom happened because WCW was looking at ECW. ECW was looking at WWF. WWF was looking at WCW. All three companies were looking at each other and seeing what worked and what didn't work. TNA is just looking at WWE and modeling its show after WWE while completely missing in the point in a lot of key things. Again, TNA is setting a bad example and needs to die. TNA also continues to lead to the credence that WWE is the best-in-the-world and that ANYONE who came from WWE is worth a million dollars despite actual talent. TNA had its chance on MULTIPLE occasions and the company has fucked up. Its time for someone else to fill the role. TNA isn't innovative- its just there. This is why when TNA goes out-of-business there will be sadness and frustration for 2-3 weeks, but after that- everyone will move on and by the end-of-the-year- no one will care. TNA has made no significant impact on the business.

[greenbat]

TNA also continues to lead to the credence that WWE is the best-in-the-world and that ANYONE who came from WWE is worth a million dollars despite actual talent. TNA had its chance on MULTIPLE occasions and the company has fucked up. Its time for someone else to fill the role. TNA isn't innovative- its just there. This is why when TNA goes out-of-business there will be sadness and frustration for 2-3 weeks, but after that- everyone will move on and by the end-of-the-year- no one will care. TNA has made no significant impact on the business.

That line got me thinking about how Heyman would bring in guys from the big 2 and, with a few exceptions, books up and job them out to his own talent. Spike Dudley walked all over PN News and I have to wonder if TNA wouldn't of made him a grand slam champion in the same atmosphere.

And I agree, when TNA dies or limos along, whichever is worse, there won't be any eulogies or "can the business survive" articles.it'll be a giant joke and a sigh if relief like watching a relative pass away of cancer. At least it's out of it's misery.