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2020 Non-Event General MMA Talk Thread


Elsalvajeloco
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Frankie Edgar vs. Gary Maynard II from UFC 125. An instant classic fight. Gray Maynard gave Frankie Edgar such a battering in the first round, that's got to be the closest thing to a 10-7 round ever. I wouldn't argue with anybody who did give it a 10-7. Edgar takes the second round, his comeback from that shocker of a start and how the scoring divided opinion between those who scored it for Edgar (as I did), Maynard and a draw.

http://mmadecisions.com/decision/2107/Frankie-Edgar-vs-Gray-Maynard

Edited by The Natural
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*looks up Rhys McKee, sees he's from Northern Ireland*

*wonders if the UK has produced any decent wrestlers or even great strikers who could consistently stuff takedowns*

Don't think so. This McKee character, "Skeletor", gonna be screaming in a high pitched voice to get Chimaev off of him. I don't think Chimaev took a single strike in that last fight. Does he go PERFECT twice in a row tho?

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22 minutes ago, Jiji said:

*wonders if the UK has produced any decent wrestlers or even great strikers who could consistently stuff takedowns*

Bisping always had pretty good takedown defense, granted his spent a much of his career training in California. There have been plenty with good takedown defense and some even had pretty good wrestling. Besides the Usman fight, Leon Edwards always shows great defensive wrestling ability.  Since the expansion back into the UK/Europe in 2007-2010, I think that's one of the positives over the last ten years we've seen. I think every country that produces several UFC caliber fighters can stop takedowns now. The problem is always elite level wrestling. When it comes to that, it won't matter what country you come from. Good luck trying to stop it.

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35 minutes ago, Jiji said:

Yah, I should've clarified I meant elite level. Nobody in the UK is going to stop a top flight Dagestani takedown. 

I don't everything is region dependent now though. All these guys train somewhere else now beside a group of guys here and there. The best thing in the world is most of these guys now have resources where they can go somewhere to sharpen their skills and maximize their potential. For every Khabib, you get a few Rustam Khabilovs who are good with elite level attributes but never going to be an elite level fighters. For every Demian Maia and Rodolfo Veira, we get a bunch of Brazilians who look novice at best on the ground (if I didn't know Marcos Mariano was one of Anderson's students at Killer Bee Muay Thai college, I would be appalled that this man got into the UFC because oh lord is he bad). As time goes on, those stereotypes become less true. Wrestling is still probably the best base. However, if you stink everywhere else, you're going to get found out. Ben Askren, besides the Sapo fight, looked like Jesus Christ of Wrestling before he got to the UFC. He got hammered in the Lawler fight but found a way to win. The Masvidal fight was a blur. Then, the Maia fight was an all time great grappling match but Maia proved to be the better, well rounded grappler. None of those three guys are elite level wrestlers. Yet, in some shape or form win or loss, they whooped up on ole Ben Askren. That's one of the aspects that I love about MMA: you can no longer depend solely on your background to win fights. Moreover, your background doesn't necessarily mean you're going to lose the fight either.

I'm just glad we're out of the old moronic Sherdog mentality that every all time great or current top kickboxer just needs six months of sprawl training, and they will be Mirko CroCop 2.0. That window has been closed for almost fifteen years now. You can no longer be easily dismissive of what most modern top fighters bring to the table regardless of where they come from.

Edited by Elsalvajeloco
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1 minute ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

you can no longer depend solely on your background to win fights

Though there are still wrestlers that have little else to fall back on and will just put everything they have into dragging opponents to the ground, exhausting them, and either win by points, ground and pound or catching a gassed fighter trying to escape in a choke. Grant Dawson is one of those guys. 

Yes, the stereotypes have become less true over time, but British fighters still in general show poor takedown defence while having very good boxing and Dagestan produces an insane amount of brilliant wrestling MMA fighters for such a small population. Chimaev's takedown and control in his last fight were incredible. His shot was lightning quick. His controlling of the legs and wrists were typical of the style the area produces. I'm going to laugh when McKee stuffs a bunch of takedowns now, though. 

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47 minutes ago, Jiji said:

Yes, the stereotypes have become less true over time, but British fighters still in general show poor takedown defence while having very good boxing and Dagestan produces an insane amount of brilliant wrestling MMA fighters for such a small population.

I would not say that's necessarily true because it's sample size and we've seen British fighters at higher frequency more than Russian fighters of different descents up until fairly recently. Not too long ago, Dennis Siver was the high watermark for Russian fighters (even though technically he's German). Then, all these fighters from three or four different gyms from one region started to take over regional MMA on the international scene. Then, a good number of them spread out across the world. I mean a guy like Chimaev doesn't even train in Russia. He's based in Sweden with Allstars. Before Alexander Gustafsson came on the scene, David Bielkheden and Reza Medadi were like the guys from Sweden that were the cream of the crop. That doesn't make me believe Sweden is gonna make Chimaev a worse fighter. It just means you don't have have to adhere to one standard way of training or learn one only way to integrate your skills into MMA. The last thing we need in MMA is parity, but you don't need to be affixed to one region of the world to be a great fighter. Hell, New Zealand has TWO (count em TWO) UFC champions. No one would have guessed that shit even three years ago.

Edited by Elsalvajeloco
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Regarding the Dagestani fighters excelling, their amateur coaching must have something to do with that, right?

As for kickboxers entering MMA, is Saki the last high profile guy to do so?

Edited by Jiji
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3 minutes ago, Jiji said:

Regarding the Dagestani fighters excelling, their amateur coaching must have something to do with that, right?

I would believe so considering most of them are in different disciplines as pre-teens. Zabit Magomedsharipov for example was in freestyle wrestling and sanda as a kid. Some come out just strictly out of wrestling but for many it's a combination of like amateur wrestling or sambo or something else and sambo. There are different institutions for combat sports whereas a guy like Fedor was like "I only train Sambo and nothing else" and be 100% telling the truth. Maybe some judo, but his base is combat sambo. I think the reason by Dagestani fighters and the new crop of ethnically Russian fighters excel compared to their Russian contemporaries of the past is because they aren't as rigid in the pro MMA ranks. Amar Suloev was one of the hardest hitters I can remember in MMA, but he didn't have everything else to go with it. He was just slightly above average everywhere else. Then, several years later, you get an Albert Tumenov who not only could replicate that success against a higher level of competition but be everything Suloev wasn't as a fighter. 

Quote

As for kickboxers entering MMA, is Saki the last high profile guy to do so?

It depends on what you mean by high profile and whether you mean part-time/fucking around with it or full time. There have been several guys who stuck their toe in the water, however, a guy like Giga Chikadze is under UFC contract. He's not doing kickboxing fights in the interim. Robin van Roosmalen and Rico will do MMA fights every blue moon, but I would not say they're fully committed. I'm sure some Thai guys do MMA bouts for ONE that I'm missing since that's not exactly my field of expertise.

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On 7/20/2020 at 12:29 AM, Elsalvajeloco said:

I would believe so considering most of them are in different disciplines as pre-teens. Zabit Magomedsharipov for example was in freestyle wrestling and sanda as a kid. Some come out just strictly out of wrestling but for many it's a combination of like amateur wrestling or sambo or something else and sambo. There are different institutions for combat sports whereas a guy like Fedor was like "I only train Sambo and nothing else" and be 100% telling the truth. Maybe some judo, but his base is combat sambo. I think the reason by Dagestani fighters and the new crop of ethnically Russian fighters excel compared to their Russian contemporaries of the past is because they aren't as rigid in the pro MMA ranks. Amar Suloev was one of the hardest hitters I can remember in MMA, but he didn't have everything else to go with it. He was just slightly above average everywhere else. Then, several years later, you get an Albert Tumenov who not only could replicate that success against a higher level of competition but be everything Suloev wasn't as a fighter. 

It depends on what you mean by high profile and whether you mean part-time/fucking around with it or full time. There have been several guys who stuck their toe in the water, however, a guy like Giga Chikadze is under UFC contract. He's not doing kickboxing fights in the interim. Robin van Roosmalen and Rico will do MMA fights every blue moon, but I would not say they're fully committed. I'm sure some Thai guys do MMA bouts for ONE that I'm missing since that's not exactly my field of expertise.

I would think it has to be Adesanya.  Again, it depends on what you call high profile, but Adesanya had fought in Glory (probably still the most recognizable org in KB despite their recent financial troubles) and was a definite top 10 (if not, top 5) fighter in his class by the time he took up MMA.  I don't think he was that well known by "casuals" but nowadays, not many kickboxers are so it is hard to make a comparison.

Edited by AA484
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Some other recent and notable kickboxers turned MMA fighters that I can think of are:

Raymond Daniels (Bellator)
Joe Schilling (Bellator)
Antonina Shevchenko

Van Roosmalen has yet to fight MMA since his recent announcement but I'd say he is probably the most significant since Izzy to make the switch.

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