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francescofuoco1998

The best wrestlers of all time - AUGUST 16, 2018

Who is a better in ring performer?  

50 members have voted

  1. 1. Who is the better wrestler, considering "in ring ability"?

  2. 2. Who is the better wrestler, considering "in ring ability"?

  3. 3. Who is the better wrestler, considering "in ring ability"?

  4. 4. Who is the better wrestler, considering "in ring ability"?

  5. 5. Who is the better wrestler, considering "in ring ability"?



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On 8/16/2018 at 11:46 PM, FlaeBlazer said:

Also y’all seem be higher on Okada than Tanahashi which REALLY surprised me.

I prefer Kazuchika Okada to Hiroshi Tanahashi. Big fan of both.

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I don't think it's reasonable to conclude how the board feels about Okada and Tanahashi, respectively, when they aren't polling against one another. Bryan's just a monster opponent in these things, whereas Kobashi's been done for a while, and (though I voted for him and don't really agree with this criticism myself) some of his stylistic excesses have either not aged well, or have been held responsible for worse wrestlers doing bad interpretations thereof.

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Maybe it's what I value in pro wrestling but I always rated Kobashi a distant third behind Kawada and Misawa (but Kawada is my #2 GOAT behind Stan Hansen and in front of Hokuto, so that's not saying much). His extreme emoting made him the perfect foil for the unflappable Misawa, the reserved fire of Kawada, and Taue's surliness but I felt he was too much in every regard even when looking back to the early-to-mid '90s golden age before all of the head dropping escalation of the latter half of the decade. Kawada, Misawa, and Jumbo were able to tell just as captivating tales in the ring by doing less. Even the constant shouts and guts poses had diminishing returns. I'm not saying Kobashi wasn't a smart wrestler, because that would be foolish if you look at how many ridiculously great matches he was in, but in my mind he was public enemy #1 in killing off the king's road style. Also, diamond head, guys. The fucking diamond head. I will say that his OTT extrovert nature lent itself well to selling. He was truly great at it and his selling of the knee injury in the June '95 tag classic along with the desperation reach to help big bro Misawa at the conclusion are some of the best shit ever.

Okada, in contrast, does little that's dangerous, is more than willing to play to his opponent's strengths and work within their styles to get something special out of them. His timing is impeccable. His selling in those long matches is pretty much note perfect for me. And while some of the Rainmaker reversal dances can be grating, I don't feel like he tends to over do it too often. Kobashi's late career miracle run with the GHC title may have been the best of the modern era up to that point, I feel like Okada exceeded it. Kobashi elevated the likes of Tamon Honda and Bison Smith to greatness if for just one night (though Honda was having a twilight renaissance himself to be fair), there were a number of really average matches in the middle of the reign against Sano, Awesome, Ogawa, and then there were the Rikio matches. Okada's weakest defence may have been against either Fale or Cody and both of those matches were really good. Li'l Kazu really grew into the best wrestler on the planet throughout his reign, which I think adds to his claim. While he was never really able to win the hearts and minds of New Japan fans like Naito or Tanahashi, his selling and emoting improved throughout the 720 days. I remember thinking he's missing a few acts of desperation and signs of humanity prior to his epic title reign and by the end he mastered that shit. The drama of him refusing to release the wrist at the very end of his matches, for instance, is such a smart, striking innovation that made for beautiful visual and mental drama. Prior to losing to Omega, it 100% meant that it was all over but the crying for his opponent. Now there's at least a glimmer of hope and that's exciting. If it were Kobashi in his place, he'd have gone on to introduce a half dozen new moves in its place. LIKE THE DIAMOND FUCKING HEAD... Ahem...

Respect to the DVDVR consensus on Bret > HBK in the ring tho. 

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I came here to vote for Stan Hansen and Terry Funk. Am leaving disappointed. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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2 hours ago, Edwin said:

I came here to vote for Stan Hansen and Terry Funk. Am leaving disappointed. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Next time I will open this kind of topic, I will put in Stan Hansen vs Terry Funk

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1 hour ago, francescofuoco1998 said:

Next time I will open this kind of topic, I will put in Stan Hansen vs Terry Funk

Not fair. They are GOAT 1a and 1b.

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6 hours ago, Edwin said:

I came here to vote for Stan Hansen and Terry Funk. Am leaving disappointed. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Second greatest seller of all time vs second greatest no-seller of all time.

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14 hours ago, Matt D said:

Second greatest seller of all time vs second greatest no-seller of all time.

Eh, I dunno, Stan Hansen's version of selling was basically getting more pissed off until he would just give out rather than no selling. It made it more shocking/mean more when he would eventually go down (like when Kobashi beat him for the first time) so I kinda like that variation on it

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20 minutes ago, CreativeControl said:

Eh, I dunno, Stan Hansen's version of selling was basically getting more pissed off until he would just give out rather than no selling. It made it more shocking/mean more when he would eventually go down (like when Kobashi beat him for the first time) so I kinda like that variation on it

Rule 1: 80s Hansen was different than 90s Hansen. 

Rule 2: 80s Hansen vs someone directly paying him was different than 80s Hansen against another opponent. 

Rule 3: To a lesser degree, 80s Hansen was different in the US than 80s Hansen in Japan.

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Japanese fans were clearly shouting at Hansen to sell a body part. That's why he charged at them.

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There needs to be some discussion of Harley Race in one of these upcoming polls. Harley might be my overall #1 like he was that time we did the GOAT poll back in the early 00s

James

 

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4 hours ago, J.H. said:

There needs to be some discussion of Harley Race in one ofthese upcoming polls. Harley might be my overall #1 like he was thst tim we did the GOAT poll back i nthe early 00s

James

 

Proto Kurt Angle? Really?

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Interesting the vote differential between Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels. Always preferred the Hitman to HBK and I like Shawn. Rivals on and off screen in the 90s.

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10 hours ago, The Natural said:

Interesting the vote differential between Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels.

I'm surprised it's as close as it is.

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