Jump to content
DVDVR Message Board
Sign in to follow this  
supremebve

ATLANTA

Recommended Posts

I've never identified more with Earn than him getting dragged to something he didn't want to do,  acting like a baby, realizing he's overreacting, then doubling down. I  liked that the episode explored how mundane and goofy social functions can take on sinister overtones if someone's in the wrong headspace to be there. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This episode made me think two things.  First, Van needs better friends.  We've met a few of her friends, and they all seem to be some level of shallow, self-hating, and/or fucked up.  Does she not have a single quality friend, who actually likes her and looks out for her best interests?  Second, Ern is irredeemable.  Seriously, that woman stuck with his homeless ass through all of his struggles, and he can't do a stupid dance to make her happy.  When she confronted him about it, he threw the help he's given her in her face like a fucking jackass.  I kind of hate him for the way he acted when all he had to do was suck it up and do something she wanted to do for once.  He does realize he's a loser and she can do much better than him right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, supremebve said:

 He does realize he's a loser and she can do much better than him right?

I will ask this again....what in the hell about Van leads us to believe she can do better than Earn? I'm not talking about who she might be and what we could possibly believe happens not depicted on this show, but everything we know about her. We got the shitty bougie friends, the pothead routine, the lack of motivation and drive, and the whole strapping someone else's urine to your leg to beat a drug test and having enough guts to walk on to gov't property to do so. Based on her not being able to hold on to a teaching gig that likely didn't pay a whole hell of a lot and her current living condition, I'm guessing she is steeped in mountains of college loan debt. Add in a kid with a father still hovering around and I struggle to find a reputable dude who will be like...."you know what? This lady is a catch."

Now I know plenty of dudes who will hit it and quit it, but since that's the case, you might as well stick with Earn. Add in the fact they live in Atlanta. A lot of those baller type dudes are looking for video vixens and IG models, and the professional black dudes are looking for black Boule (or Jack and Jill of America) chicks who either are a professional or have them in their family. Van is neither the former or the latter unless her family cut her the fuck off which wouldn't make sense as Earn went to Princeton. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Elsavajelco is right, but I also wouldn't be suprised if this sets up a new boyfriend that's either a bigger loser than Ern or Van, or someone like the mayonnaise tech guys from the record label. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, (BP) said:

Elsavajelco is right, but I also wouldn't be suprised if this sets up a new boyfriend that's either a bigger loser than Ern or Van, or someone like the mayonnaise tech guys from the record label. 

I would think it would be a white dude but there is a stigma (IMO it's taboo to white men at least) around black women who have the title of baby mama. They could go that route but I would like them to dig into that since interracial relationships aren't as taboo anymore as much as the product of an interracial relationship (see that Cheerios commercial a few years ago) and/or a new age blended family. If Van ends up indeed getting with a white dude and makes a YouTube channel advocating for the Swirling movement and giving personal advice on how to get with white men like several black women her age IRL, I will truly believe this show is way ahead of its time.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

She needs to get on OK Cupid and get her life.

Joking aside, that may very well be true that unless she sorts her shit out then she's always going to be doomed to find someone like Ern or worse. It's not a female thing either. I've seen women and men do the same shit and fall into that same trap or worse and as a bystander you just sit there and wonder how. The how is that neither party goes through any kind of self-realization or discovery through therapy or psychoactive drugs (I'm just assuming here, therapy was my thing) and they have to be mature enough to seek that out that sort of help (therapists can be wonderful life coaches), then be brave enough to still seek the right help, and stick with it. Van and Ern don't strike me as those types of people. Maybe Van, but not Ern.

This is getting deeper than I thought.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

I will ask this again....what in the hell about Van leads us to believe she can do better than Earn? I'm not talking about who she might be and what we could possibly believe happens not depicted on this show, but everything we know about her. We got the shitty bougie friends, the pothead routine, the lack of motivation and drive, and the whole strapping someone else's urine to your leg to beat a drug test and having enough guts to walk on to gov't property to do so. Based on her not being able to hold on to a teaching gig that likely didn't pay a whole hell of a lot and her current living condition, I'm guessing she is steeped in mountains of college loan debt. Add in a kid with a father still hovering around and I struggle to find a reputable dude who will be like...."you know what? This lady is a catch."

Now I know plenty of dudes who will hit it and quit it, but since that's the case, you might as well stick with Earn. Add in the fact they live in Atlanta. A lot of those baller type dudes are looking for video vixens and IG models, and the professional black dudes are looking for black Boule (or Jack and Jill of America) chicks who either are a professional or have them in their family. Van is neither the former or the latter unless her family cut her the fuck off which wouldn't make sense as Earn went to Princeton. 

I guess, but she at least sleeps in a bed at night.  If Earn wants to sleep in a bed, he has to sleep in her bed.  That dude was too broke to sleep in a storage unit.  Van seems like she's going through a rough time, Earn seems like he is doomed to be a life long loser.  If he wasn't managing his cousin, what exactly would he be doing for a living?  He's a homeless dude who only has a job because his cousin hired him to manage his local rap career...and his cousin is starting to see how he's failing at that.  Van can get another job and be right back on her feet.  Earn got one break and started acting all brand new to the woman who let him sleep his homeless ass in a bed at night.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I forget, did Ern graduate from Princeton or did he only go there? What was his degree even in?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

If you managed to get into Princeton and are homeless... damn.

Not crazy though.  Where I grew up there was this crazy, old, alcoholic named Billy Barnes.  If I had to guess the person with the highest IQ I've ever met, it's probably him.  He spoke, read, and wrote in 7 different languages.  He'd go from reading a novel in German to screaming obscenities at kids riding their bikes.  He went to the military, and came back a changed person who fell into addiction and mental illness.  I guess that is kind of different than Earn, but intelligence generally does not correlate with the level of success someone achieves.  The world is set up for the average to succeed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A person slowly coming to terms with not being able to feed or house themselves on the potential they once had is a pretty common story. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, I totally know it's possible. It's just really fucking sad. 

Also, take in mind I'm coming into this season cold having not seen the first and being told some of the backgrounds is completely fresh to me and kind of shocking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Their individual fortunes have definitely reversed since the first season. Am I wrong or have they not shown Lottie at all this season? Before this episode I had gotten to the point where I thought they had retconned her like the older brother on Happy Days or the youngest sister on Family Matters. Then when they focused on the empty car seat I thought maybe something had happened to her. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, (BP) said:

Their individual fortunes have definitely reversed since the first season. Am I wrong or have they not shown Lottie at all this season? Before this episode I had gotten to the point where I thought they had retconned her like the older brother on Happy Days or the youngest sister on Family Matters. Then when they focused on the empty car seat I thought maybe something had happened to her. 

Child labor laws make putting kids in television shows very complicated.  I'm pretty sure this is a, "why bother putting a kid who won't even be doing anything on a show where you can just show a car seat and everyone will get the point?" decision.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, supremebve said:

I guess, but she at least sleeps in a bed at night. 

It's not really guessing. That's what it is. Sleeping in a bed not really a coup though (AT ALL) when you think about the widening racial wealth gap in America. She has to get out of bed eventually and then reality is going to set in. This is not an aberration for a black person her age right after college even though data shows black women typically perform better than black men in every statistical category. This is the norm and all we seem to rely on is depreciating assets like a vehicle, which she might be living in at some point.

4 hours ago, supremebve said:

If he wasn't managing his cousin, what exactly would he be doing for a living?  

I was going to make a point in reference to what Craig said, but it's not a matter of what if and living in the now. Not saying that Earn wasn't being a dick or they don't need therapy, but my point was all we're going to find out is that one person in this relationship is living momentarily through the lens of escapism and the other at least for now isn't living through that prism. I mean you can say Earn goes to the strip club, but a strip club in Atlanta might as well be another McDonald's or Starbucks down the street. I was watching a show on YouTube last night about the myth of a black patriarchy and I think it is applicable here in that Van is trying to angle this by eliminating what she sees as a gender role and what typifies a "normal" relationship between a black woman and black man. I'm not saying she doesn't have a right to chill with her friends or anything like that, but the whole problem is what goes on between two black people living paycheck to paycheck (or random wads of cash and hacked gift cards in this case) like most black couples in America (taking out the baby boomers who make up most of black wealth in America) is that you can't apply that same science as you would for a white male and white female because no real dynamic of power for the black male exists. Black men areat the very bottom and Earn's character exemplifies that even though right now he's doing slightly better than Van. His discomfort at being in a strange gathering isn't him wielding power. The other side of the coin is that finding another job is not something that really exists for young black people like that. Any spike in employment for black people is going to be likely from the gig economy meaning she can drive for Uber or Lyft. That's not really a job. So when you ask what would Earn be doing if he didn't have Al....the SAME SHIT Van would be able to do even with her slim chance of finding another teaching gig. The only hope that exists for Van is the double minority myth (meaning you can just layer the struggles of one thing on top of another w/o context to make a plight worse than it is) exists in the same realm as the black patriarchy myth. However, she seems to be in no rush to take advantage of that and that puts her in the same predicament as Earn of being a lifetime loser. The caveat for Earn is the Paper Boi thing can be his meal ticket. It's still a long shot but so is finding another teaching job for a person who seems to not care about teaching in Atlanta.

That's the thing. As someone who lived on the doorstep of poverty as a youth in an one parent black household, I can say finding a way out is going to be extremely tough and that trying to escape through relationships that clearly are not beneficial is not going to help at all. I'm not saying Van has to be my mom necessarily , but her attitude and demeanor is as problematic as Earn's is. If her trump card as a young black person w/ child with no steady income whatsoever living a city where the cost of living is high is her home, she is in DEEP shit. If she was in Cali, she would be homeless IRL. All that being said, as much she probably doesn't like hanging with Al and his crew, HER only way out is the longshot of his career. Moreover, she should see incentive being Paper Boi's publicist, social media manager, representative, or one person street team because she would have better control of what comes in and out her pockets. She has to put hanging out with her friends on the backburner until she gets her shit together or Paper Boi blows up. She would do a better job than Earn, who is clearly flying by the seat of his pants. The only conflict I see is if she is the one pushing Earn and Al, who in the world is going to push Van? Based on the show, after the first week or so of hard work developing and printing out promotional material and putting stuff on Soundcloud, Van is going to be smoking purp with Darius while Tracy is working on his wave game and watching Netflix. That's how that will devolve and we will be right back at square one.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I disagree with the fact that her only way out.  If she was a teacher, she has a degree and depending on the school, a Master's degree.  In a city like Atlanta, she can find a job.  I grew up broke in a single parent home too, and I live in one of the most expensive places in the country.  The reason it costs so much to live here is because there is enough high-paying work for anyone who is qualified.  She's qualified to do something, she just needs to find work.  I didn't graduate from college, and I've never had a hard time finding work.  I get paid fairly well, most of my friends get paid pretty well, and pretty much none of us have ever been unemployed for more than a month or so.  Atlanta is not a place where a motivated person with a college degree should be unemployed. Like I said, she is in a rough spot, but Earn seems to be unmotivated and unqualified to do anything but what he is doing.  Earn seems like the type of dude who doesn't have a marketable skill, not because he's not capable, but because he hasn't even tried to develop a skill set.  That is the difference between them, she has a safety net of skills that Earn just doesn't have.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, supremebve said:

I disagree with the fact that her only way out.  If she was a teacher, she has a degree and depending on the school, a Master's degree.  In a city like Atlanta, she can find a job.  I grew up broke in a single parent home too, and I live in one of the most expensive places in the country.  The reason it costs so much to live here is because there is enough high-paying work for anyone who is qualified.  She's qualified to do something, she just needs to find work.  I didn't graduate from college, and I've never had a hard time finding work.  I get paid fairly well, most of my friends get paid pretty well, and pretty much none of us have ever been unemployed for more than a month or so. 

But the thing is black people getting paid fairly well is not the norm. Just because me and you get paid fairly well doesn't mean your average black person gets paid fairly well with a degree or multiple degrees. There are black people with MBAs in their 20s and 30s who are on the verge of suicide if they couldn't find an IC position out there to get to the next month to pay rent. Data (more specifically every metric for black college graduates from the last five years) shows that "well, you just need to find a job" is complete bullshit (I suggest you look into Sandy Darity, Darrick Hamilton, or Dr. Tommy Curry's The Man-Not). You can't attach your (or your uncle, your homie, etc.) personal experience of how easy you found a job to the next black person because that clearly doesn't exist. To make a point, in Atlanta, there are likely more Vans sitting on their ass with teaching degree about to work retail or for Uber than qualified black people about to get a job.

Quote

Earn seems like the type of dude who doesn't have a marketable skill, not because he's not capable, but because he hasn't even tried to develop a skill set.  That is the difference between them, she has a safety net of skills that Earn just doesn't have.  

There are ton of black people sitting at the crib with skill sets. That "skill" don't mean shit.. You might as well use that teaching (or a business) degree as a welcome mat or dinner napkin especially if white teachers make up between 80 and 90 percent (closer to 90 in 24 states) in public schools.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

But the thing is black people getting paid fairly well is not the norm. Just because me and you get paid fairly well doesn't mean your average black person gets paid fairly well with a degree or multiple degrees. There are black people with MBAs in their 20s and 30s who are on the verge of suicide if they couldn't find an IC position out there to get to the next month to pay rent. Data (more specifically every metric for black college graduates from the last five years) shows that "well, you just need to find a job" is complete bullshit (I suggest you look into Sandy Darity, Darrick Hamilton, or Dr. Tommy Curry's The Man-Not). You can't attach your (or your uncle, your homie, etc.) personal experience of how easy you found a job to the next black person because that clearly doesn't exist. To make a point, in Atlanta, there are likely more Vans sitting on their ass with teaching degree about to work retail or for Uber than qualified black people about to get a job.

There are ton of black people sitting at the crib with skill sets. That "skill" don't mean shit.. You might as well use that teaching (or a business) degree as a welcome mat or dinner napkin especially if white teachers make up between 80 and 90 percent (closer to 90 in 24 states) in public schools.

I do follow most of those people, and appreciate their work, but we are talking about different things.  Van can work retail, be middle to upper management and make a living wage.  Listen, most of my friend group started working at Target as teenagers and ended up moving up to middle or upper management before we moved on to bigger and better things.  The schedule sucked and we got paid far less than we should have for the amount of work we had to do, but it was work and a paycheck.  She has a path to get out of her situation.  I'm not saying she'll get rich, or even be middle class, but she has the ability to stop sitting on the couch and improve her situation.  That is not Earn's situation.  There are plenty of black people with skills that don't necessarily mean they'll get employed, but the black unemployment rate is still less than its been since the 70s.  There is work for qualified people, even if it is lesser work than what they want.  She can work, especially in a city like Atlanta.  She's not a perfect employment candidate, but she's qualified for a job that will keep her bills paid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, supremebve said:

I do follow most of those people

Yeah I call bullshit, I doubt it because you DEFINITELY DEFINITELY would not being saying that stuff.

14 minutes ago, supremebve said:

Van can work retail, be middle to upper management and make a living wage.  

She got fired from a teaching job by basically dry snitching on her for carrying someone's piss. What have we seen on the show from Van that showcases this motivation? Shit, I was even being nice that she had motivation enough to help out Paper Boi's career.

14 minutes ago, supremebve said:

 I'm not saying she'll get rich, or even be middle class, but she has the ability to stop sitting on the couch and improve her situation.  That is not Earn's situation.  

Borderline poverty is THEIR situation. This is my whole point. Trying to crowbar one from the other defeats how realistic the show is.

14 minutes ago, supremebve said:

There are plenty of black people with skills that don't necessarily mean they'll get employed, but the black unemployment rate is still less than its been since the 70s.

That would be like saying you're in good health because you got hit by an Escalade instead a Panzer tank. It's still alarmingly high. Studies show that even with black graduation rates being at an all-time high, the growth in other areas is minimal at best compared to the late 1960s.  This further lets me know you don't follow these people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Trying to crowbar one from the other defeats how realistic the show is.

One of my favourite things about Atlanta is that you're right about the realism, but this is still the show that did the invisible car joke. 

I love it. Carry on. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

One of my favourite things about Atlanta is that you're right about the realism, but this is still the show that did the invisible car joke. 

I love it. Carry on. 

This invisible car isn't real?!

My whole life is a lie.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Yeah I call bullshit, I doubt it because you DEFINITELY DEFINITELY would not being saying that stuff.

She got fired from a teaching job by basically dry snitching on her for carrying someone's piss. What have we seen on the show from Van that showcases this motivation? Shit, I was even being nice that she had motivation enough to help out Paper Boi's career.

Borderline poverty is THEIR situation. This is my whole point. Trying to crowbar one from the other defeats how realistic the show is.

That would be like saying you're in good health because you got hit by an Escalade instead a Panzer tank. It's still alarmingly high. Studies show that even with black graduation rates being at an all-time high, the growth in other areas is minimal at best compared to the late 1960s.  This further lets me know you don't follow these people.

Yes, I do follow them.  Sandy Darity is pretty much my go-to Twitter follow for interesting economics discussion.  Darrick Hamilton is another great mind,  "Umbrellas Don't Make it Rain," is a brilliantly researched report that speaks directly to this conversation, so I understand exactly where you are coming from.  Two things.  The plight of the average black person is not just something I'm interested in, it is pretty much what has defined my entire life.  I come from a city where the median income is $16,000 per year.  It is poor, crime-ridden, and fucked up in almost every way you are describing. That is not a place where the average black person can make a decent, LEGAL, living.  I live where I live because my mom had to leave me and my sister with my grandparents and couch surf after graduating from college.  She went from Ohio, to Jersey, to Washington D.C., and eventually found a career and built a life.  It is possible to improve your life.  It can be slow, and it often is unfair, but it is possible.  Black people have multiple factors that stop them from gaining wealth, even in the best of times, but that isn't what we're talking about.  We are talking about whether or not this particular woman is employable to the point that she can do better than her homeless baby's daddy. The reason so many black people live in places like Washington D.C. and Atlanta is because it is a place where black people have been able to improve their lives.  Van is an educated black woman in one of the few cities where that matters.  She can get a job, it will probably suck, but she can find something that will pay her bills and put food in her daughter's belly.  

She got fired from her teaching job after being an idiot one day.  The entire first season she was a responsible parent trying to get Earn off her couch and to do something with his life.  She got high on the wrong day, panicked, snitched on herself and got fired.  She didn't get convicted of a felony or anything, she's employable.  My dad has been to prison multiple times and has been able to find decent work in a place where there is not much work for law-abiding citizens.  She isn't hopeless.  She can do something where she can be aight.  She's probably not going to make enough to buy a house, or even a car...but she can be aight.  

Borderline poverty is not their situation. Poverty is their situation.  Not just poverty, but borderline homelessness.  I'm not saying that this woman is about to stop the problem of generational poverty all by herself, I'm saying there is somewhere in Atlanta that will hire her to work.  I'm not saying the economy is good for black people, I'm saying that it is as good as it has been in our entire lives.  The difference between starvation and hunger may be small, but there is a difference. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, supremebve said:

 It is possible to improve your life.  It can be slow, and it often is unfair, but it is possible.  Black people have multiple factors that stop them from gaining wealth, even in the best of times, but that isn't what we're talking about.  We are talking about whether or not this particular woman is employable to the point that she can do better than her homeless baby's daddy. The reason so many black people live in places like Washington D.C. and Atlanta is because it is a place where black people have been able to improve their lives.  Van is an educated black woman in one of the few cities where that matters.  She can get a job, it will probably suck, but she can find something that will pay her bills and put food in her daughter's belly.  

The thing here is she is far from the first person with this idea to move to D.C. or Atlanta. You move to D.C. or Atlanta to find a quality opportunity, not anything. So if she is able to find a job that sucks, which she will likely subsequently quit, she can move to Toad Square, North Carolina and have LESS competition for that same type of job. What's the point of living in Atlanta, a city where people want to stunt, if you're competing with the next sister who may or may not have more advanced degree for pennies? Moreover, the amount of turnover in a particularly position would probably be crazy. That's the path she is heading down.

19 hours ago, supremebve said:

She got fired from her teaching job after being an idiot one day.  The entire first season she was a responsible parent trying to get Earn off her couch and to do something with his life.  She got high on the wrong day, panicked, snitched on herself and got fired.  She didn't get convicted of a felony or anything, she's employable. 

Isn't part of her responsibility to recognize who Earn is and that if it's not in him, then it's not in him. Moreover, also recognize that he isn't going to be the breadwinner especially immediately. Their lifestyle in a season plus doesn't resemble that of a couple who realizes that they're close to financial ruin if not already in it. I mean it would be logical if they had an entire episode dedicated to using their tax refund money for Beyonce tour tickets.

If you remember in that same episode ("Values"), her girl Jayde said Van use to be the chick that would make fun of girls like Van in her current situation all while living it up. Her situation has humbled her, but not the point it has changed the core of her being (that set in motion the drug test fiasco). We've just seen more of Earn to know there is very little to change who he is. I've never said she can't find a job, but who she is will make that tougher especially taking into account everything I've espoused earlier.

19 hours ago, supremebve said:

Borderline poverty is not their situation. Poverty is their situation.  Not just poverty, but borderline homelessness.  I'm not saying that this woman is about to stop the problem of generational poverty all by herself, I'm saying there is somewhere in Atlanta that will hire her to work.  I'm not saying the economy is good for black people, I'm saying that it is as good as it has been in our entire lives.  The difference between starvation and hunger may be small, but there is a difference. 

You understand that second part of the bold comment means nothing though? This goes especially if you're not planted in an Atlanta, New Orleans, Dallas, Nashville, and DC and/or don't have any type of connections. Then we go from the extremely tough to needle in a city full of haystacks. Keep in mind when we talk about connections, we need to think about that how none of her friends have given her the hook-up. Why? Even though we know her buddies are saditty black folks or low key escorts like Jayde, there is a morsel of truth in their interactions with her. They likely know her for leisure and not any type of work ethic that she has. If they did, she would be right under them the moment she got terminated. For god's sake, that is what living in Atlanta is for!

Van is the intelligent chick you can smoke with and listen to Lauryn Hill's one album and De La Soul/ATCQ with, but if we're being entirely honest, at her core is a person who has just enough desire to go from PT temp job to PT temp job until she is 43 years old and finally lands a decent position to have a livable wage. Earn and Van belong together for that very reason. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Van is the intelligent chick you can smoke with and listen to Lauryn Hill's one album and De La Soul/ATCQ with.

This conversation has gone on long enough, but I could have 25 post dissection of this particular woman and whether or not she's actually intelligent or just does listens to music to make people think she's intelligent.  I like Lauryn Hill a lot, but that album has become one of the most overrated pieces of music, because of that particular subgroup of women.  Go back and listen to The Carnival and Miseducation of Lauryn Hill back to back and tell me which one you like more.  I bet you it is The Carnival.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, supremebve said:

This conversation has gone on long enough, but I could have 25 post dissection of this particular woman and whether or not she's actually intelligent or just does listens to music to make people think she's intelligent.  I like Lauryn Hill a lot, but that album has become one of the most overrated pieces of music, because of that particular subgroup of women.  Go back and listen to The Carnival and Miseducation of Lauryn Hill back to back and tell me which one you like more.  I bet you it is The Carnival.

Preaching to the choir. I'm biased because I'm a Wyclef fan and Lauryn's personality and actions over the last several years has not ingratiated herself to me enough to drum up reverence for that album. Will I listen to it over Nicki Minaj or Iggy Azaela? Yes, but that's not a huge hurdle to leap. That's more like a limbo bar set six inches off the ground.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...