The Natural Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 Surprised Robert Whittaker will be back so soon as his staph illness sounded fucking awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 44 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said: Apparently Till was ill at some point with sinus infection and just recovered. Borrachinha just tore his biceps. He was gonna fight Uriah Hall in Atlantic City, but the bicep tear put him back six weeks. You have to follow the news cycle, bro. You just can't complain for no reason. Just like you're tired of people not having fights, I'm tired of reiterating why these people don't have fights. Google and Twitter search are your friends. Dern is getting this fight because she drew a good rating for a prelim fight and Rio show needs help. She's already a proven draw. Till having a sinus infection is not the reason he hasn't fought since October. A sinus infection sucks, but that is not a reason to not have a fight scheduled after your biggest win. I've had some terrible sinus infections. You're fucking miserable for a week, sluggish for another week, and pretty much good after that except for a extremely runny nose. They take forever to go away, but it's not something you can't work through after a week or so. You can't tell me that is an excuse for not having a fight on the radar at all since October. I understand why Amanda Nunes didn't fight with one, I don't understand someone not fighting for months because they had one. 24 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said: Perry also established a name and separated himself from the pack. Perry's problem is more or less a training issue. This is a morsel of truth in Covington's craziness and insanity. You can't just train with anybody. The UFC gym tidbit was fun at the beginning of UFC run but he has to get with a real team. It can't be him, his girlfriend, Alex Nicholson and his girlfriend, and a few other people. If you're going to fight several times a year in the UFC, you cannot regress as a fighter. Someone like a Mackenzie Dern on the other hand at least has an actual infrastructure where she can at least develop training at MMA Lab. Mike Perry believes his success is just doing whatever he likes. That's going to become a much bigger issue if it continues that way. So that's on him and not the UFC. Perry is on a different plan than Dern, but in some ways in the same boat as Dern. Both of them have a potentially elite skill, but neither of them have a fully formed process that will allow them to take best advantage of their potentially elite skill. I don't know if a super active fight schedule is helping them develop the processes they are going to need to reach their full potential. Perry lost to Ponzinibio, because Ponzinibio has a process, he knows what he's good at and how to put himself in a position to maximize his skillset. Perry is a dude who punches really hard with a basic level of how to set those punches up. He has no idea how to cut off the cage or what strikes to throw early in a fight to set up the strikes he wants to throw later. That takes gym time, and to your point, good training. Perry has the potential to be a title contender. He's tough as nails, hits like a ton of bricks, and is about as colorful of a personality as exists in the sport. Putting him in back to back fights is promotionally irresponsible for someone they may be able to make money with in the future. Mackenzie Dern just pulled in a surprisingly high television rating, which is great, but that doesn't mean you disregard all the improvements she needs to make. It is short term thinking that is going to cost them if she gets brained because she hasn't had the time to develop her takedown game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted March 15, 2018 Author Share Posted March 15, 2018 1 hour ago, supremebve said: Till having a sinus infection is not the reason he hasn't fought since October. A sinus infection sucks, but that is not a reason to not have a fight scheduled after your biggest win. I've had some terrible sinus infections. You're fucking miserable for a week, sluggish for another week, and pretty much good after that except for a extremely runny nose. They take forever to go away, but it's not something you can't work through after a week or so. You can't tell me that is an excuse for not having a fight on the radar at all since October. Yes, it is. They wanted him to fight in London. His coach said that's a no go. Now, the UFC is trying to get the Dublin show to be moved to later in the year so they can go to Liverpool in May instead. Quote Till revealed that he has suffered with sinusitis since 2015 and that the infection flared up again over Christmas. When UFC inquired about his availability for UFC Fight Night 127 in London, his coach Colin Heron told him that he wouldn’t be as ready as he would like him to be going into the event. Till explained: “(Heron) said, ‘When you’re coming back to fight in this division you’re coming in to knock someone out. You’re not going to fight a three-round, five-round fight that goes to decision. It’s not like that. I need 10 to 12 weeks to work on you.’” Take that up with his coaches, not the UFC. In addition, I already went over this before. He really didn't have anyone to fight (you had a bunch of people who were injured, had just fought, and were lined up to fight) and no one was lining up to face him. We already been over this. 1 hour ago, supremebve said: Perry is on a different plan than Dern, but in some ways in the same boat as Dern. Both of them have a potentially elite skill, but neither of them have a fully formed process that will allow them to take best advantage of their potentially elite skill. Dern...I dunno. I would say 65-35 because there are no really elite grapplers but it's going to be an uphill climb. Strawweight is not bantamweight/featherweight in 2010-2012, a virtual wasteland for talent. She has a good shot but I am going to wait before I make another assessment. She needs the fights as result of strawweight having talent because facing can after can isn't going to do anything for her. I think Valentina became a better fighter in UFC because she was going to donkey kong everyone in Legacy (before it merged w/ RFA). She came right in and decisively beat Sarah Kaufman. Dern is going to have to fight people have who at least a modicum of skill. Medeiros was a good win in Invicta, but she definitely needs more of that. I don't think Mike Perry is ever going to be an elite fighter, and I would've said that before the Jouban, Ponzinibbio, and Griffin losses. He has to overcome so much (ego, training, overall talent, discipline, etc) to become an elite welterweight, and right now, the only person to hold Mike Perry is accountable is Mike Perry. 1 hour ago, supremebve said: Putting him in back to back fights is promotionally irresponsible for someone they may be able to make money with in the future. See above as to why it's not, but you can say the same if they did it for Darren Till. Till can actually be a bigger draw, but you want to guy to fight anyone whether he is ill or not. I understood why they booked Perry. Local guy and reliably entertaining fighter. Besides Niko Price (who was already booked for the Charlotte card), they don't really have a ton of Central Florida fighters. They were angling to make a potential fight with Till, and Griffin edged him out to win. He still had a chance to win that fight. Mike Perry is basically a better version of Chris Leben, and they never really made a bunch of money off Leben. He headlined a few cards here and there, but he was there to take fights on short notice and have slugfests. That was his job. That is also Perry's duty. If your girlfriend is your chief second, I don't expect you to be the next P4P stalwart. I like Mike Perry, but I at least have a realistic expectation of what he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 The sinus thing is not an argument worth having, but trust me I've had sinus issues for my entire life. I once had a doctor tell me that my sinus issues were so bad, I probably don't know what it means to feel well. Thankfully, those issues have been cleared up, but we aren't talking about something that is debilitating. I wouldn't fight while I had a sinus infection, but it wouldn't take much time from my training schedule. 12 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said: See above as to why it's not, but you can say the same if they did it for Darren Till. Till can actually be a bigger draw, but you want to guy to fight anyone whether he is ill or not. I understood why they booked Perry. Local guy and reliably entertaining fighter. Besides Niko Price (who was already booked for the Charlotte card), they don't really have a ton of Central Florida fighters. They were angling to make a potential fight with Till, and Griffin edged him out to win. He still had a chance to win that fight. Mike Perry is basically a better version of Chris Leben, and they never really made a bunch of money off Leben. He headlined a few cards here and there, but he was there to take fights on short notice and have slugfests. That was his job. That is also Perry's duty. If your girlfriend is your chief second, I don't expect you to be the next P4P stalwart. I like Mike Perry, but I at least have a realistic expectation of what he is. The difference is that Mike Perry has fought almost exclusively on free television, while Till has pretty much never fought on a card that anyone has watched. He's the best fighter no one has ever seen. Till needs to fight, because people need to see him. We've seen Perry, we're intrigued by Perry, and we can wait to see him again. With that said, I couldn't disagree with you more about Perry's potential. That dude is 26 years old and is incredibly skilled for a guy who got dropped off at a UFC gym on his way home from jail and lets his girlfriend train him. He is playing with athletic tools that most fighters just plain don't have, and he's young enough, and seems to learn fast enough to take full advantage of those gifts. He's a crazy person, so there is no telling what will actually happen, but he can be something special if they don't run him into the ground. He's been in fights with some really skilled fighters and none of them have blown his doors off. All of his UFC loses seems like fights young fighters lose, because they haven't had the time to build a toolbox diverse enough to win. He's out there trying to hammer in screws and screw in nails when his opponents are hammering nails, screwing screws, and wrenching on nuts and bolts. All of those loses are because of issues that are fixable with time and training, except he's fighting so often he isn't developing those little skills that separate good young fighters from great veteran fighters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted March 15, 2018 Author Share Posted March 15, 2018 19 hours ago, supremebve said: That dude is 26 years old and is incredibly skilled for a guy who got dropped off at a UFC gym on his way home from jail and lets his girlfriend train him. But we have to understand that there is a cap there. In the same way Till beating Cerrone hurts his opponent options, Perry coming out of the gate being Lim and Danny Roberts puts him at a level beyond where prospects should be. It is comparable to Sokoudjou beating Arona and Minotoro and Houston Alexander beating Jardine and Alessio Sakara. You're beating flawed opponents (although Minotoro was still a great win imo), but they're 200% better than anyone you're going to see on a regional level. I mean Roberts and Perry probably would have fought in Titan FC due to the Florida connection but that would have been a regional title fight at worst. He had 3 UFC fights in 2016. Three in 2017 and one time in 2018. That's not a Neil Magny or Cerrone type schedule. There are boxing prospects who fight like once a month still in an era where many other prospects go whole years without fights due to outside issues and promoters not having a ton of confidence in them. Plus, the guy had SIX fights in 2015. If a guy is facing handicap in that on the regional scene in he didn't face a ton of great opponents, you need to see what you have in the guy. Moreover, I think everyone of his opponents made sense for his skill level. Jouban is a very fun fighter to watch, but he has shown to be very beatable. He had veteran saavy to beat Perry, but I think that fight showed that Perry doesn't really know how to fight outside of brawls he can end at any given point. At least in the Roberts fight, he showed he didn't have to panick because he knew Roberts would fade (the same thing almost happened against Griffin). Ponzi is a tough customer and that's the thing...a fighter like Mike Perry has to win that fight at some point without being down on the cards. He's going to be facing other fighters who are super tough at 170. His strategy is a giant detriment to being in a loaded weight class. I'll use Arthur Abraham as example. When Arthur Abraham was at middleweight fighting at home in Germany and IBF champ, they found low level middleweights who would take the first few rounds off Abraham because all he would do is shell up. The next three rounds or so, he would finally start throwing punches and probably take 1 or 2 out of 3 or 4 rounds. The next two rounds, his opponents would start fading bad because hey, they're lower level middleweights. Every round after that, Abraham was eligible to score a stoppage win since his opponents would basically be clinging to life. He jumped to 168, and it worked against a faded Jermain Taylor. Got a brutal 11th round KO IIRC. Then, he fought skilled dudes who didn't get tired at the halfway mark and boy did Arthur Abraham look putrid. He never changed how he fought because he was so reliant on that style. Giving away rounds is not practical. It works when you're facing a Danny Roberts who is vulnerable. But against fringe contenders like Max Griffin who find a way to stay up to the very last second and top tier welterweights, that shit isn't going to play. Perry buys too much into that gimmick of having to be the knockout artist, and it doesn't help he doesn't have the infrastructure to disrupt that. Moreover, I think the UFC did themselves and Perry a service because him fighting nobody after nobody like an MVP does him no justice. Besides Ponzi, I would have picked him against everyone of those opponents. Hell, I would pick still against Jouban because Alan is still hitable as all hell. However, I don't have faith in Mike Perry beating any top welterweight. He has a decent puncher's chance against a few (Colby got wobbled a little by Maia FWIW), but most of them exude the qualities of being a top welterweight. Mike Perry is the guy you run to the microwave and warm up some leftover pizza because he's about to fight. He may not win, but it's going to be damn entertaining. And I think (hell, I would prob say I'm sure) the UFC is perfectly fine with him being a serviceable welterweight. There is nothing wrong with that. He's the break glass in case of emergency fighter. Hence, why he appears on TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 13 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said: Besides Ponzi, I would have picked him against everyone of those opponents. Hell, I would pick still against Jouban because Alan is still hitable as all hell. However, I don't have faith in Mike Perry beating any top welterweight. He has a decent puncher's chance against a few (Colby got wobbled a little by Maia FWIW), but most of them exude the qualities of being a top welterweight. Mike Perry is the guy you run to the microwave and warm up some leftover pizza because he's about to fight. This is also my argument for how he could be better. He's physically more talented than most of that division and is young enough to make huge skill improvements. All of the other stuff can be taught, his physical abilities are something you either have or you don't. If I had a choice, I'd always take the young guy with the overwhelming physical talent than someone who has the technical skills. He is competitive with fighters much more skilled than him. They have technical advantages that should be able to overwhelm him, but his physical ability evens the playing field. Imagine what will happen when he starts bridging that skill gap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted March 16, 2018 Author Share Posted March 16, 2018 4 hours ago, supremebve said: This is also my argument for how he could be better. He's physically more talented than most of that division and is young enough to make huge skill improvements. All of the other stuff can be taught, his physical abilities are something you either have or you don't. If I had a choice, I'd always take the young guy with the overwhelming physical talent than someone who has the technical skills. He is competitive with fighters much more skilled than him. They have technical advantages that should be able to overwhelm him, but his physical ability evens the playing field. Imagine what will happen when he starts bridging that skill gap. How many guys can you say that for though? I mean Brandon Thatch beat another (at that time) good prospect in Mike Rhodes in RFA and looked straight deadly in his first two UFC fights. He even showed potential in the Benson Henderson fight. However, once he took John Hathaway's spot against Gunnar Nelson, it was all downhill from there. Physically, Thatch was everything you wanted out of a welterweight. However, once he got exposed, people saw the easy avenue to beat him. Erick Silva, who eerily was once set to fight Thatch on the Cyborg vs. Lansberg card, was suppose to be a critical part of the next wave of great Brazilian fighters. He had a good team around him with legends in the sport. You can even forgive the loss to Fitch because Fitch was still a top guy at that point. However, at some point, you had the sinking feeling that Erick Silva was destined to be guy to never put it together even with all the great physical attributes. We gave those guys the benefit of the doubt because of the physicality. Once you evaluate the talent it takes to consistently be a top welterweight, that benefit of the doubt doesn't really line up with elite status unless you notice marked improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted March 16, 2018 Author Share Posted March 16, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 16 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said: How many guys can you say that for though? I mean Brandon Thatch beat another (at that time) good prospect in Mike Rhodes in RFA and looked straight deadly in his first two UFC fights. He even showed potential in the Benson Henderson fight. However, once he took John Hathaway's spot against Gunnar Nelson, it was all downhill from there. Physically, Thatch was everything you wanted out of a welterweight. However, once he got exposed, people saw the easy avenue to beat him. Erick Silva, who eerily was once set to fight Thatch on the Cyborg vs. Lansberg card, was suppose to be a critical part of the next wave of great Brazilian fighters. He had a good team around him with legends in the sport. You can even forgive the loss to Fitch because Fitch was still a top guy at that point. However, at some point, you had the sinking feeling that Erick Silva was destined to be guy to never put it together even with all the great physical attributes. We gave those guys the benefit of the doubt because of the physicality. Once you evaluate the talent it takes to consistently be a top welterweight, that benefit of the doubt doesn't really line up with elite status unless you notice marked improvement. I'm not saying he's a GSP after smashing Jay Hieron and Karo Parisyan sure thing, but he has shown to have a solid chin, solid defensive wrestling, and dynamic stopping power. Thatch couldn't stop a takedown from me, let alone a UFC level fighter, Silva's jaw is suspect at best, glassy at worst. Perry is a rich man's Matt Brown. Brown was a blood and guts brawler who developed into a skilled contender. Brown is not nearly the athlete that Perry is, he's just tough as nails and figured out how he fit into the sport. That's what I want for Perry. One of my favorite parts of being an MMA fan is rooting for prospects to reach their potential. I pretty much started my MMA fandom as GSP was beating the breaks off of the aforementioned Jay Hieron and Karo Parisyan. Watching some dude lay the beat down on some poor chump who has no idea who he is in the ring with is one of my greatest joys in life. So, Till is on for Liverpool right? Any idea who he's going to fight. I think Masvidal could be fun, I'd keep him away from Magny (I think Masvidal is better, but Magny has a way of making everyone he fights look horrible) and Usman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted March 16, 2018 Author Share Posted March 16, 2018 I don't see Masvidal getting that fight coming off two losses. Magny is angling to fight Ponzinibbio in Chile so I guess Usman is the guy. Looking at the rankings, the next WW down coming off a win who isn't booked or hasn't fought Till yet is Belal Muhammad. After Belal, it's Alan Jouban who has a H2H win over Belal Muhammad. Title fight wise, Usman is the only choice. He beats Usman, he can fight for the title. Till vs. Muhammad or Jouban would be more entertaining but it's several steps back from Cerrone. Maybe they can coax Covington into taking the fight, but a win over Usman puts Till in the driver's seat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted March 16, 2018 Author Share Posted March 16, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Just now, Elsalvajeloco said: I don't see Masvidal getting that fight coming off two losses. Magny is angling to fight Ponzinibbio in Chile so I guess Usman is the guy. Looking at the rankings, the next WW down coming off a win who isn't booked or hasn't fought Till yet is Belal Muhammad. After Belal, it's Alan Jouban who has a H2H win over Belal Muhammad. Title fight wise, Usman is the only choice. He beats Usman, he can fight for the title. Till vs. Muhammad or Jouban would be more entertaining but it's several steps back from Cerrone. Maybe they can coax Covington into taking the fight, but a win over Usman puts Till in the driver's seat. I wouldn't want to fight Usman under any circumstances. That dude looks like he goes around grabbing women's booties, just to see if their boyfriends are man enough to do something about it. The answer is no, they aren't. Could Stephen Thompson be the fight to make? He's a really tricky fight style, but he's a name who means something. Till vs. Usman seems like two no-named dudes beating the shit out each other in front of a audience who doesn't know who the hell they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted March 16, 2018 Author Share Posted March 16, 2018 2 hours ago, supremebve said: I wouldn't want to fight Usman under any circumstances. That dude looks like he goes around grabbing women's booties, just to see if their boyfriends are man enough to do something about it. The answer is no, they aren't. Could Stephen Thompson be the fight to make? He's a really tricky fight style, but he's a name who means something. Till vs. Usman seems like two no-named dudes beating the shit out each other in front of a audience who doesn't know who the hell they are. The Liverpool show is going to sell out in minutes (it only seats 11k) so I would not worry about that. Wonderboy's side has implied that the UFC hasn't asked them to fight Till on the Liverpool card. However, that certainly doesn't mean he will take it. I think that would be great fight to make, but I think it will come down ultimately to who decides to take it. Usman tried to start shit with Till not too long ago so I mean that may be the direction to go in if Wonderboy balks on the Till fight again. Helwani tweeted that there was a report out of Brazil that it was going to be Masvidal, but it's not true and Masvidal wanted that fight later in the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxB Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 I guess Chris Fishgold's debut will be on the Liverpool show as well. Although technically he's still in Cage Warriors at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted March 19, 2018 Author Share Posted March 19, 2018 On 3/17/2018 at 10:03 AM, AxB said: I guess Chris Fishgold's debut will be on the Liverpool show as well. Although technically he's still in Cage Warriors at the moment. I know Pimblett signed a new deal with Cage Warriors but I wonder if he ends up on that card. They needs fighters for women's 125 so I imagine Molly McCann would interest them as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twiztor Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 didn't see it mentioned before: Andrei Arlovski is facing Tuivasa @ UFC 225. i think i'm gonna have to make the trek to Chicago for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted March 19, 2018 Author Share Posted March 19, 2018 40 minutes ago, twiztor said: didn't see it mentioned before: Andrei Arlovski is facing Tuivasa @ UFC 225. i think i'm gonna have to make the trek to Chicago for this. We're going to find out a lot about Tuivasa. It's a big leap up in competition. Another notable fight that is in the process of being finalized is Jose Aldo facing Jeremy Stephens on a card in Singapore on 6/23 instead on the 5/12 Rio card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hail Sabin Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 On 3/14/2018 at 9:35 PM, Elsalvajeloco said: This should be a interesting fight for Dern since Copper will be a tough out. I did get it right that she should would face a TUF fighter but I thought a TUF 20 alumni. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 Check this out! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 I don't think this was posted till now, Paige VanZant talks about her eating disorder: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-43442629 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted March 20, 2018 Author Share Posted March 20, 2018 UFC is working a fight between Cub Swanson and Frankie Edgar for the 4/21 Atlantic City card. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted March 21, 2018 Author Share Posted March 21, 2018 Warlley Alves is fighting the returning Sultan Aliev, who I forgot was still on the roster and has only two fights three years into his UFC run, at UFC 224. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 18 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said: UFC is working a fight between Cub Swanson and Frankie Edgar for the 4/21 Atlantic City card. Quick turnaround for the Answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVileOne Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 20 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said: UFC is working a fight between Cub Swanson and Frankie Edgar for the 4/21 Atlantic City card. So I guess that means Cub Swanson got a new deal? I heard his contract expired and he was looking elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted March 21, 2018 Author Share Posted March 21, 2018 1 hour ago, TheVileOne said: So I guess that means Cub Swanson got a new deal? I heard his contract expired and he was looking elsewhere. Yeah, his last deal was done and he was briefly removed from the official UFC rankings. IMO, his options were very limited unless he wanted to do the PFL $1million tournament up a weight class. I believe Chris Wade and Will Brooks are in that as participants. Swanson can win that, but with the track record of that company prior to the name change, who knows how that will ultimately pan out? I don't think Bellator would be willing to give him anything more than what the UFC would give him if Bellator decided to give him an offer at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts