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Joshi Puroresu Discussion Thread

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He was replying to one of my comments so I know about that.

Toni winning both big singles tournament this year is interesting. Makes me wonder if she isn't quite heading to WWE within a year like many guessed even before the tournament. She won't win the red belt unless they are holding off on her and Mayu's title match until December. I can't see them having Mayu lose it before then and another title defense or two.

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Does anyone have an archive of 2011-2015 Stardom? That Drive doesn't have Stardom anymore, fair enough, but the archive of their old shows on Stardom World feels non-existent.

I really want to see more of Act Yasukawa's work, but finding a lot of it seems impossible.

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Syuri won her UFC fight tonight. Really happy for her, don't know what this means for her future but she has stated before that fighting in UFC was her dream. Syuri is easily the most legit fighter in Joshi history, I don't think she gets enough credit for it as most of her wrestling career since becoming more full time was in smaller promotions like REINA so she was a bit under the radar for more casual viewers.

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So Mayu unfortunately was injured very early into the red belt match with Toni and had to forfeit the title. No idea how long she will be out.

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hen you say forfeit the title does that mean Toni is the champion or the belt is vacated?

James

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Toni is the champ now.  It's be interesting to know if she was planned to win the title or not booking wise going forward.

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Other Io, Hiroyo Matsumoto is a good choice for a challenger to Toni since they went to a draw early in the year. 

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Has Hiroyo lost the Oz belt yet? If not I doubt she will take a direct loss in Stardom.

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On 9/28/2017 at 4:57 PM, JML said:

Other Io, Hiroyo Matsumoto is a good choice for a challenger to Toni since they went to a draw early in the year. 

I am not sure if there is a reason, but Hiroyo has only had one match in Stardom since June, which was to drop the trios title. They tend to phase Freelancers in and out so it doesn't mean she won't be back soon, but they seem to be going towards cheaper Freelancers (Konami and Tam) as Hiroyo's price probably has gone up the last two years with all the success she has had.

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Stardom World has posted the Mayu/Toni Storm match and it's pretty gruesome injury for Mayu.  Her arm bends the complete opposite direction when she landed on a missed dropkick on the ropes.   Hopefully she isn't out for too long.

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On 9/29/2017 at 9:09 PM, Kevin Wilson said:

I am not sure if there is a reason, but Hiroyo has only had one match in Stardom since June, which was to drop the trios title. They tend to phase Freelancers in and out so it doesn't mean she won't be back soon, but they seem to be going towards cheaper Freelancers (Konami and Tam) as Hiroyo's price probably has gone up the last two years with all the success she has had.

Or it could be that Hiroyo is more dedicated to other promotions and booking her isn't the easiest since she is top level.

EDIT: Just to follow this up Hiroyo is apparently scheduled for a show they are running in Taiwan later this month. Toni was just added as well which makes me think even more they had no intentions of her beating Mayu.

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I fully recommend the Chihiro Hashimoto/Meiko Satomura rematch. It might be the joshi MOTY. I loved it so much cause Chihiro isn't green like last year. Thought they built a great story with Chihiro solidifying herself as the ace of Sendai. Better to me than how Reigns and Cena told that story. I freaked out when Chihiro kicked out of the Scorpion Rising/DVD combo.

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I am starting my Joshi catch-up weekend, watching WAVE 8/12 and 10/9 first. I never heard a backstory on how/why ASUKA was in the main event of their big anniversary show over the title match, but I thought she did well for an 18 year old two year pro. Top to bottom it wasn't a great card, WAVE simply doesn't have a lot of high end wrestlers so their shows are pretty top heavy. But worth the watch.

Stardom 10/17 and Sendai Girls 9/24 both have a few matches I am looking forward to and some matches I'd rather skip, but we'll see.

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Tam and Kagestu are full time with Stardom now but they've been full time with Stardom anyway this year since they rejoined. 

 

https://twitter.com/we_are_stardom/status/925945144813035520

 

Also Nanae Takahashi is teaming with TARU against Chigusa Nagayo and Masato Tanaka in an exploding barbwire deathmatch which I think is Nanae's first ever. 

 

https://twitter.com/nanaracka/status/925982766121938945

 

I'm still behind on Stardom but I saw the Iroha/Bito match and I didn't feel the MOTY that I saw on Twitter. Meiko/Hashimoto is still the best joshi match I've seen this year. 

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Happy for Kagetsu and Tam, I just hope this means Oedo Tai merch will finally be online to buy, I love their shirts but since they were their own thing they aren't for sale in Stardom's online shop.

I am not the biggest Bito fan so there wasn't any way that match was going to be a MOTYC for me. I do love Iroha and I thought the match was entertaining (I don't really do star ratings but ***1/2 feels right). I'm not all up on social media anymore so I dunno who would have called that match a MOTY. A perfectly good main event for a smaller Korakuen Hall show, but not on the level of Mayu/Io, Satomura/Hashimoto, Best Friends/Avid Rival, Hiroyo/Hashimoto, Io/Kairi, or uh many other matches.

Course sometimes it feels like me and that crazy Joshi dude that sometimes posts here are the only two that watch a variety of promotions. I guess if someone only watched Stardom, and felt it was 'different' than Io matches, that they may have liked it better than other Joshi matches they have seen. But in the scope of Joshi (or any wrestling) its not a MOTYC.

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Not sure if watching a variety of stuff would make the difference. I liked the match fine, but I didn't think it was a MOTYC either, and I'm way behind on anything everything non Stardom joshi wise. Bito is getting better, but she really doesn't have enough there yet to be having a great 30 min. draw.

I'm pleased Kagetsu and Tam joined Stardom. I figured Kagetsu might with how things changed when she came back from her short hiatus, wasn't sure on Tam. Its good for Stardom to increase the size of their official roster. Hopefully this means a red belt reign isn't too far off in the future for Kagetsu.

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15 hours ago, Kevin Wilson said:

Happy for Kagetsu and Tam, I just hope this means Oedo Tai merch will finally be online to buy, I love their shirts but since they were their own thing they aren't for sale in Stardom's online shop.

I am not the biggest Bito fan so there wasn't any way that match was going to be a MOTYC for me. I do love Iroha and I thought the match was entertaining (I don't really do star ratings but ***1/2 feels right). I'm not all up on social media anymore so I dunno who would have called that match a MOTY. A perfectly good main event for a smaller Korakuen Hall show, but not on the level of Mayu/Io, Satomura/Hashimoto, Best Friends/Avid Rival, Hiroyo/Hashimoto, Io/Kairi, or uh many other matches.

Course sometimes it feels like me and that crazy Joshi dude that sometimes posts here are the only two that watch a variety of promotions. I guess if someone only watched Stardom, and felt it was 'different' than Io matches, that they may have liked it better than other Joshi matches they have seen. But in the scope of Joshi (or any wrestling) its not a MOTYC.

Who is the crazy Joshi dude?

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1 hour ago, JML said:

Who is the crazy Joshi dude?

Ha I forgot his screen name, I just remember someone in here was pro-Yoshiko and seemed to watch a wide variety of promotions. But I mostly was calling him crazy for watching as much Joshi as I do, I don't recommend it.

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I'm watching a bunch of older Kana matches as part of a project for my site, and man she was always so good. The DVDs start in early 2008, soon after she recovered from her health issue. But she must have been training, not a ton of her matches from 2004 to 2006 made tape since AtoZ either didn't film or didn't release a lot of their events from that time period, but from what I have seen she was much better after her return. Her move set is much deeper (she does a cross-legged Cutie Special, more hip attack variations, a modified STF, etc.), since it was before she really had her set style she was just throwing out more of a variety.

I mean she already was one of my favorite wrestlers so I probably went in with a slight bias, but I expected a slower rise to her getting good, not to be immediately impressed.

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hey guys i got an old won from 1987 when dave meltzer went to japan and this is what he said about ajw

 

Trying to describe ALL Japan womens's promotion won't be easy. We saw a sunday matinee show on 12/1 at korauken hall in tokyo with about 2,400 

teenage girls log-jammed in 1,800 seat building breaking every fire law known to mankind.  It was the best live card i've ever seen in the last three years and the main event

was by far the greatest match i've ever seen live.  In fact i'd say without question it was better than any match ever held in the usa in the history of this business. 

It was a 12 girl tag team match went 50 min of nothing but high spots and he crowd was screaming at about double the level of hulk hogan posing routine for the entire time.

 When chigusa nagayo was squaring off against lioness asuka,  the roar was louder than you'd here in the 7th game of an nba champinship series with 18 sec left and the home

team down by 1  i've never experienced anything like the energy that comes out of the crowd,  and the girls in the ring worked every bit as hard as the crowd 

the girls are on tv on the fuji network and while they consistently draw 7s plus on saturday afternoons , the week we were there they drew  an 11.3 rating

to give you an example of the popularity of this group in japan that rating for 1 show is higher than the rating of all mcmahon's syndicated shows in the usa

put together in fact it's roughly the same as the rating for mcmahon's best snme nbc special drew.  So when i compare the importance of chigusa with hogan

it is not an outlandish statement at all even though the girls put on the most entertaining card you will ever see as mentioned before  the crowd is almost all

teen girls who live and die with every move made by chigusa .  The place was packed with members of the many chigusa fan clubs and also lioness asuka fan clubs

wearing their fan clubs jackets Im not sure of the customs, but the girls wear the jackets into the buildings, then take them off when the matches start then whenever

chigusa is about to come out the girls all rush and put on their jackets it's an amazing sight although the most amazing sight is the heat when chigsusa either sings or wrestles

The people who watch men's matches do not watch women's matches in japan it is a completely different audience and in fact the japanese fans and reporters 

that we met couldn't even understand why we were so interested in the girls card there is definite negative stigma about the girls , at least among wrestling fans probably

because the show is so obviously designed at mainly teen girls .  About 15 min before the show started there were maybe 150 fans in the building and since we

knew the show would sellout we were shocked one of the guys i was traveling with told me to look in the lobby it was jammed with about 1,500 girls buying more souvenirs

chigusa merchandise dump matsumota gym shorts and programs and streamers. 

There were a lot of american fans at the girls show which is something you don't see at men cards

while the u.s. fans seemed enjoyed the show there is know doubt to the americans the show would revolve around dump matsumota.  If dump was to tour the u.s.a 

and be let loose and have good opponents  to work with like the JB ANGELS with no push are getting over in the usa she would make women's wrestling in america

matches between dump and chigusa in the past have drawn gates well over $200,000 i'd go so far to say within 3 months dump would be in newsweek magazine 

and in 6 months a famlliar figure on t.v. commercials .  Dump wrestled yukari omori on the card we saw and it was  17 min of non-stop brawling all over the building

with juice on omori's part ,  tons of outside interference , and heat like you will never see in this country. 

Even though reality dump, 27 is actully nice and mild-mannered from all accounts her tv and ring persona is so strong that even when she walks down a street away from

the ring fans get scared and run away screaming. 

Sorry guys but I need to take a break ill finish the article later

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OK HERE'S SOME MORE

The main attraction of the card was the retirement of tenjin "Devil Masami, who will thurn 26 on january 7th was basically forced out by the mandate retirement rule the promotion has. It's something that culturally can't be  understood by u.s. fans although dump was made an exception to the rule because dump can't be replaced, however Jaguar Yokota who is acknowledged by many as the greatest women wrestler of all time was not made exception and retired in late 1985.

Im not sure the reason why some would say they want the girls young and cute but since this promotion doesn't even try to appeal to a male audience i don't see that as a reason as mentioned earlier, the japanese  culture is known for pushing teenage girls as superstars in movies and music and discarding them when they hit 20 , and i suppose it is thought that schoolgirls can more easily relate to wrestling idols who are just a few years older then they are.

Masami's finale match was a 5 min exhibition against chigusa , who is the world champion of the group unlike other matches you could have heard a pin drop at certain points of the match yet as some old-time wrestler's who remmber the old days will tell you the best heat is often silent heat because it shows fans are so into the match that don't cheer and boo they weren't making noise because it was boring although in reality i was kind of disappointed  with the match as the only highlight was masami doing a suplex on chigusa 

with both girls standing on the top rope. Mainly chigusa just took bumps for masami to make her look good in the finale match and was basically beaten when the exhibition ended another problem with the match is the last 30 to 45 seconds when they should have turned it on they instead both broke down and started crying and would you believe it by the the time the bell rang i'll bet half the audience was crying to .

It's just another sight i won't soon forget masami wants to continue wrestling and will probably work some in calgary next year and possibly the wwf while masami is a good worker she doesn't have the potential to get over in the u.s. like the JB angels have because she's basically unspectacular in the ring and in my mind the only way for a girl wrestler to get over is for her to be able to do things in the ring that the men can't which is why the JB angels are  doing so well and why dump would be such an attraction.

In fact even though the show is japanese my impression is this promotion is such a novelty that with the correct promoting it could deliver a sizable cult audience and get a lot of media publicity in the u.s. like vince attempted and failed to do with wendi richter (and as bad as wendi work was in the u.s. as wwf champ she would of gotten over pretty well if she had dump and not moolah to feud with)

OK TIME TO TAKE ANOTHER BREAK

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THIS IS THE LAST PART Of The ARTICLE 

From a marketing standpoint , the age rule has its benefits as well probably the biggest failure in pro wrestling is they don’t understand pop culture that they are part of while some musical groups have long runs like the roiling stones the hot groups usually skyrocket to the top and often fizzle down to nothing just a fast

The average run for pop stardom teenage heartthrobs like David cassidy or Bobby Sherman is two years let’s face it hogan no longer can sellout buildings just by showing up any more and the rock & roll express and road warriors can’t even draw fans anymore (although the latter case I think there is still tons of unutilized potential but ricky and Robert are dead as draws)

By getting the baby faces out by 25 you don’t create a dusty Rhodes who is still popular, but in the real world turn people off your product the age rule forces this promotion to consistently develop new and better talent and push them to the top instead of getting stale and relying on acts that where once draws but no longer are

Now I’m not at all in favour of this rule or any sort of mandatory retirement age for wrestlers if I had it my way I’d just watch nick bockwinkel five nights a week or masa Saito but in many ways this business has been hurt badly for decades by guys past there prime, promotions don’t  realize you have to take the business down at times to rebuild and push new talent in the long run 

Besides Chigusa who just turned 23 this past week has been wrestling for this group since she was 15 in mid 1980 and became a pop superstar in 1983 while still a teenager the other top babyfaces are lioness Asuka the other half of the crush girls tag team which peaked this groups popularity about two years back Asuka now 24 has been a pro since just before her 17th birthday 

During there heyday of the crush girls Asuka was actually every bit as popular as Chigusa and the better worker but Chigusa has improved incredibly in the last year while Asuka has been played by injuries (the injure rate in this promotion is very high kyoko aso broke her neck getting a tombstone piledriver of the top rope that move is now longer done because of that)

The Jb angels are Itzuki Yamazaki & noriyo tateno are both 21 but never made it to the top in Japan because they are to girly (the same reason why they made it in the USA and why the crush girls wouldn’t have made it big) the other top babyface tag team is kazure nagahori,19 and yumi ogura, 20 two very pretty and very small girls-and yukari omori who turns 26 shortly 

Omori was world champ before Chigusa and will probably retire early next year the heels are real heels led by kuaro dump Matsumoto who has been around for eight years at about 220 pounds with a punk rock hair Style dyed  several different colours kendo stick biker outfit and swastika tattooed on her forehead presents a picture you wouldn’t believe 

Her partners in crime are Bull Nakano 19 who began wrestling at 15 in 1983 and rose to the top rather quickly bull has hair on only one side of her head dyed all different colours and face paint as well the third member is condor saito 20 who came from the class of 184 and known for her wild screams is smaller than dump and bull and often injured because of her all out style 

The girls they are pushing right now to eventually be on top are Yumiko Hotta 20 who uses lots of karate kicks similar to the uwf wrestlers, yasuko ishiguro 20 and mika Suzuki 18 .

MORE TOMORROW 

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Ogawa was asked about the mandatory retirement age during and a series of short interviews for Stardom World. Apparently it was more because of health than anything else since many had been working for a decade at that point. He also mentioned AJW trying to get some to stay past it.

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2 hours ago, Eivion said:

Ogawa was asked about the mandatory retirement age during and a series of short interviews for Stardom World. Apparently it was more because of health than anything else since many had been working for a decade at that point. He also mentioned AJW trying to get some to stay past it.

I know he said that but it doesn't ring true at all. I mean male wrestlers in Japan worked over a decade and weren't forced into retirement for "health reasons", and since many of the women continued wrestling in other promotions down the line it clearly wasn't some of their preferences either. Even currently in Japan, Joshi wrestlers tend to retire early to start families when they get married, I can accept their culture is different but it comes more across as AJW being old fashion (JWP didn't do it) or thinking it was what the fan's wanted (fresh young faces) than being concerned for the wrestler's well-being. And I think that's just about what everyone has said, aside from Ogawa recently. Like I said, I'm not judging them, but it is what it is.

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