WWE Network Conversation

[GuerrillaMonsoon]

2 hours ago, Cobra Commander said:

was this episode before Scorpio debuted and surpassed a bunch of those guys on his first night?

Haha, I believe it is. The really awkward Tony Atlas racist promo that almost certainly was written by Bill Watts saying that Ron Simmons should be working in a cotton field, the Robbie Walker beatdown and I assume Scorpio debuts at Clash as Simmons partner

[Cobra Commander]

17 minutes ago, GuerrillaMonsoon said:

Haha, I believe it is. The really awkward Tony Atlas racist promo that almost certainly was written by Bill Watts saying that Ron Simmons should be working in a cotton field, the Robbie Walker beatdown and I assume Scorpio debuts at Clash as Simmons partner

yeah, Scorpio replaces Robbie Walker at the Clash.

Watts' time in WCW was probably a ticking timebomb all along but i've always heard that he was figuring out which guys didn't suck the longer he spent there so if not for him saying things in print that got him fired, he probably would have had a better group of cheap talent than all the crap they signed for cheap in 1990/later 1993.

[GuerrillaMonsoon]

Speaking of bad Dusty impersonations. Johnny B Badd vs Scotty Flamingo in a battle for who is the prettiest man in WCW with dueling bad Dusty promos is.......yeah, look, it doesn't age well.

[Cobra Commander]

The huge news out of Survivor Series was, of course, Gunther. So I figured out a card to watch which is on the network for whatever reason.

WXW 21st Anniversary (12/18/2021) [most of it, at least]

It's been 649 days since they've been in their home and in celebration, WALTER will presumably beat some ass.

Compared to other shows, the comments here will be condensed since I haven't seen much/any of most of these wrestlers.

Match 1: Stephanie Maze and Fast Time Moodo vs Arrows of Hungary (Icarus and Dover). It's a tale as old as time, a man and woman teaming up to take on two bald Hungarians that wear animalheads to the ring. This was interesting. I actually remember more of what Maze did than what Moodo did. Maze hit some strikes and sold her knee. At one point, the ref actually told the Arrows to not do their doubleteam since one of them had been in the ring for too long. Arrows retain after hitting their double kneestrike Crossfire finisher on Maze.

One of the people in tonight's ladder match got hurt last night. These two dudes speaking German and looking like Sami Zayn have differing opinions if they're gonna work together in this ladder match.

Match 2: Michael Knight vs Bobby Gunns. I remember seeing Gunns from the WXW show I watched awhile ago from Toronto. Knight sorta looks like if CM Punk was more dedicates to getting tattoos. This is a fun matchup if your interests are strikes and suplexes. Appears that WXW takes the 1992 Bill Watts approach to ringside mats. This one ends with a double countout. Meanwhile Bobby Gunns is unhappy tthat he was able to beat Michael Knight on a night where "everybody is watching, including WALTER". Just gonna imagine WALTER watching all these matches and judging people accordingly. It appears that there will be a future match between these two.

Meanwhile Norman Harras makes his entrance just in time to taunt Michael Knight as Harris beat Knight for the Shotgun title recently. If his look and the closed captions are any indicator, Harras is probably a heel. Okay, he's saying the fans are unfamiliar with the concept of Art annd shows them a photto of himself with the title. This art will be auctioned off. Presumably the promoters don't rig the mid-show raffles in Germany too. Anyways, Harras doesn't know who he's gonna face tonight.

Match 3: Norman Harras vs Absolute Andy. Andy just died a few days ago (which may have been an added influence on show choice, which made it harder with what's on the Network being very post-2019). In this match he's making his return after 14 months. 15 minute time limit so the counter on the screen counts down instead of up. The crowd is pumped up for Andy tonight. Andy wins the Shotgun title in under 3 minutes with a facebuster to become a Grand Slam champion. There would be just one more Andy match before he gave up the title and never wrestled again. Andy helps ruin the art auction by hitting Harras with the photo of Harras holding the title.

Looking at Wikipedia:

Quote

"The next notable interaction Andy had with Harras came at Silvester Spezial, even though in storyline, he was out of the country attending a fitness camp. At the event, Metehan was set to face an unknown challenger for the Shotgun Championship. Harras hacked into Andy's iPad, and sent a e-mail to the board of directors, booking himself as the challenger. Andy soon learnt that his iPad had been hacked, and interrupted the match by video, to add a stipulation that the loser would be fined €5,000. With that threat looming over them, Harras eventually defeated Metehan."

Sounds Amazing. RIP.

Previously on WXW NOW, amazing looking stuff in clipped form which is building our next match.

Match 4: Adbert "Coach" Dreissker vs Vincent Heisenberg. Guessing that Heisenberg is the evil one since he has 2 people with him. These two just immediately start clubbing each other as it's a battle of big dudes. This feels like a match that would inspire claims that the ring was reinforced for this match. Heisenberg appears to enjoy hiptossing opponents. Dreissker fires up after hitting a fallaway slam. Can't say i've seen too many back body drops where the guy just drops his opponent to the side instead of taking him over his shoulder. Heisenberg's gothic lady friend gives him a toolbox that he uses to hit Dreissker for the DQ. Okay, she's named Baby Allison and she hit a Spear (kinda) to Dreissker's buddy. Total chaos happens after this one. The ring announcer declares that the brawl has to end or else there will be suspensions. Very German to end a postmatch brawl with an official announcement from the office to "knock it off already"

Upon checking, one of Baby Allison's nicknames is "Witch Bitch" which.. yeah, that fits.

An announcement for 2022 16 Karat Gold including such luminaries as ROH World Champion Jonathan Gresham (hey remember that guy?). 4 days of nonstop action in Oberhausen.

Match 5: Cara Noir vs WALTER. Cara Noir certainly has a unique look. Walter is at 870 days as NXT UK champion by this time in history. This is Walter's first WXW match since March 2020. If you just looked at the two competitors, you'd probably suspect this match is one where Walter just beats the ass of this skinner dude with chalky facepaint which means it's an accomplishment when Noir successfully does stuff to Walter. Feels like Walter/Gunther has done countless matches where he's basically a bear mauling smaller challengers where the challengers get some hope spots in on Walter. Stuff like Noir hitting Walter in the chest multiple times and then Noir goes down after one chop. It's like German Vader (yes I'm aware of one of Walter's former ring names). Not sure if Walter would hit you harder or softer if you didn't lay it in on him. It took about 18 minutes for Walter to discard honor and stomp this barefoot dude on his barefeet. Walter hit Noir with a Tombstone for a 2 count which feels like a move the WWE might one day let Gunther use in public in a big match. Noir gets some extra hope with his sleeper finisher (The Black Swan) but in the end, Walter beats him with the Fire Thunder Driver. Walter has some words for the crowd postmatch. That was a fun war of a 20+ minute match. Walter reminds us of the 3 categories of wrestlers (like, neutral, and detest).

There's 3 more matches, but it's close to 2am here so...

Edited November 29, 2023 by Cobra Commander

[Cobra Commander]

Just when you think you're out of 1987 WCW, you get pulled back in...

Hey, since it's wrestling that happened on November 28th.

World Championship Wrestling (11/28/1987)

Tony with some big announcements, there's a new Junior Heavyweight Champion. Also, Ric Flair won the title at Starrcade, along with Dusty winning the US title. David Crockett is still missing.

Nikita Koloff shows up wearing an Adidas jersey with both TV title belts. The Bunkhouse Stampede is coming up.

Match 1: Rock'n'Roll Express vs Trent Knight and Larry Stephens. There'll be a six man tag with Barry Windham and the Mighty Wilbur later. Rick Steiner takes on Ron Simmons tonight. Just bringing out all the big matches that they didn't run for the last 2 months. Rock'n'Rolls win with a double dropkick.

Jim Cornette and the Midnights show up at the podium. Stan is in an Adidas jacket too. The Bunkhouse Stampede is coming up. Also Big Bubba won the most money last time they ran Bunkhouse Stampedes. Hey, Cornette makes the fried chicken/Ethiopia joke that would get him fired from a job in 2019. Good times!

Match 2: Michael Hayes and Jimmy Garvin vs Gladiator 1 & 2. One could only imagine how long the smell lasted from Precious spraying perfume at Techwood. Jimmy Garvin's pants are very shiny. Hayes and Garvin win after a Garvin brainbuster.

Let's take a look at one of the classic matches in all of wrestling history, Dusty vs Luger from Starrcade (hey, most of the country couldn't see this card, so..). JJ just barely got that chair into the cage.

Tony says we'll see a side of Dusty Rhodes we've never seen before during his postmatch press conference (hey they did that in 1987 too!)

Dusty is surrounded by 5 dudes for his "press conference". He's wearing a Zambuie Express camo cap. Dusty's tired and he's thinking about retirement (he goes for another 3 years). 

Match 3: Larry Zbyszko vs Bob Riddle. Larry stalls for a few moments. The fan chant "Larry's a wimp" which makes me wonder "hey what if Larry got to work the Sportatorium in front of rabid teen fans a few years before. Larry wins with a swinging neckbreaker.

Larry has some words postmatch for Barry Windham and Dusty Rhodes. Meanwhile here's footage of Larry hitting Barry Windham with a foreign object. Noted snitch Tim Horner comes out to tell the referee about this and the referee reverses himself so that Larry doesn't win the Western States Heritage. Larry Zbyszko yells some more.

Ric Flair joins us in front of an applauding studio audience for his victory speech. Let's take a look at Flair/Garvin from Starrcade. Man Flair really tapped an artery for this one. I don't know what would have been a good finish for this match but this felt sudden. But the fans loved it nonetheless. Ric declares he's gonna make us all learn to love it even more after all this.

Match 4: Sting vs David Isley. Sting finally perfects his squash formula as he wins with a Stinger Splash and the Scorpion Deathlock.

We have reached the second hour and Sting is with Tony Schiavone. Sting is aiming for Ric Flair now. Which is a bit of a swing for this promotion in 1988 after 1987. Also the Bunkhouse Stampede is coming and it's a good tension release for Sting.

Jim Crockett shows up to talk about Dusty Rhodes. The Bunkhouse Stampede is coming and Dusty will defend his title there.

Match 5: Midnight Express vs Thunderfoot 1/2. Jim Cornette declares he doesn't hate David Crockett, just the guy who turns David's mic on. Midnights win with a double flapjack.

Jim Cornette gets more time to talk postmatch. The Bunkhouse Stampede is coming up. 

JJ and Lex Luger take the podium. It looks like Lex Luger and Stan Lane are sharing sunglasses and hairstyles this week. Starrcade 87 was more intense than all the football playoff games that Lex totally played in. Lex takes off two shirts to make his point.

Match 6: Dr. Death Steve Williams vs Tommy Angel. Dr. Death wins with the Oklahoma Stampede.

Dr. Death gets a postmatch interview. The UWF title still exists for another month, for the record. The Bunkhouse Stampede is coming up. Dr. Death thinks this will involve 30-35 men in the same ring. "I'm the fossil of the UWF".. yeah, I guess.

Ronnie Garvin is here in a Canadian Tuxedo and a trucker gap. For the record, Quebec-born Ronnie Garvin is wearing an "American by Birth, Southern by the Grace of God" cap with a Stars and Bars. Ronnie declares he's coming back to win the title again (he did not come back). Meanwhile Michael Hayes and Jimmy Garvin come out to totally not interrupt this promo. Hayes and Garvin say Ronnie's still the champ in their heart. They should have turned Ronnie sooner than they did.

Match 7: Ron Simmons vs Rick Steiner. A match that won't be a squash! That backdrop from Steiner was as crisp as you'd expect. Kevin Sullivan appears and he appears to be appears to want to guide Rick Steiner. Steiner powerslams Simmons but gets distracted by Sullivan. Ron Simmons wins by DQ after Rick Steiner throws him over the top rope. A special challenge match to nudge a storyline forward.

THE SPAM SLAM OF THE WEEK is Dr. Death Steve Williams slamming a masked jobber (one of the Gladiators). If Dr. Death ate spam, he'd talk about OU Football while eating it.

Match 8: Arn and Tully vs Rocky King and Chance McQuade. Tully gets the pin by hitting the Slingshot Suplex on McQuade.

The Four Horsemen get podium-time postmatch to remind us that they rule things.

A bit of a changeover from the Horsemen to a Mike Rotundo interview. Rotunda says he could beat anybody who worked at Starrcade.

Natch 9: The Mighty Wilbur, Barry Windham and Ricky Santana vs Ivan Koloff, The Warlord and The Barbarian. Everybody brawls to start this one off. It's just like the Bunkhouse Stampede, which is coming up. Wilbur with some of the gentler looking choking you'll ever see on Ivan Koloff. Kinda feels like Barry Windham is slumming it by being in this match. Missy Hyatt will be on the Sunday Edition, which isn't on the Network. Wilbur goes out to the floor and takes some blows from Paul Jones. Wilbur does an elbowdrop in an interesting way (trying to drop the point like he's Bret Hart, instead of the traditional fatboy elbowdrop). Wilbur gets a chain but Teddy Long gets it away from him before he's disqualified. For some reason this match makes me think that Barry Windham vs Koloff, Warlord or Barbarian would be better than expected. And this show ends with the match in progress.

Well... that's one way to shake off the last few months of programming. The Bunkhouse Stampede is coming up. There is some light at the end of the tunnel though, although i'm sure people didn't realize that Sting was about to become the biggest babyface in the company.

[Cobra Commander]

I decided to watch the rest of WXW 21st Anniversary so that I wouldn't miss out on anything in the last hour of a 3 hour show.

I'll start by rewatching WALTER vs Cara Noir.  Cara Noir hasn't worked anything on Cagematch since April so I don't know what's going on there. He has never worked in this country but he has enough of a look to either stand out, or sink because we're not ready for "dude doing the gimmick of being expelled from the Ballet Academy" in America or because we'll compare him to guys in this country who aren't as good at working. Cara Noir looks like the grownup version of the Turtles Kid meme from the 2000s but he throws some good kicks and he's not totally skinny. I'm gonna imagine it's more terrifying to face Walter in this tinyass WXW ring. Nice dive by Noir into a sleeper which is a cool looking spot that could cross over. Takes 6 minutes for Walter to chop this guy. Anticipation! Cara throws some loud chops because as noted before, if you don't lay into Walter, he loses respect for you. For all the "what if Gunther worked Mid-Atlantic in the 1970s" hypotheticals... if Gunther worked Boogie Woogie Man Jimmy Valiant in the 1980s, Boogie would be convulsing on the floor after like 2 minutes. Walter is also pretty good at selling for a monster, which can be another comp to Vader. Also the lighting of this arena makes the Cara Noir dives look like he's diving directly into darkness. There are way too many mid-match commercial breaks on Peacock for this card. I can buy the concept that Walter could lose to a sleeper because presumably Walter can be choked out until he goes to sleep. Sucks that "This Is Awesome" chants migrated to Germany. The marks on Cara Noir's chest from those chops is a visual. Walter's Tombstone Piledriver is a little bit faster than most of the Tombstone's we see. Walter's casual kicks make me wonder how much of a fun assbeating Gunther vs Orange Cassidy would be. Just imagine a world where Gunther could have a first blood match that ends with the ref deciding "yeah, this guy is bleeding from the chest, the match is over now". Despite being listed at around 6'0/190 and the facial chalk, Cara Noir doesn't look small next a monster like Walter. After all the teases of the Black Swan, Walter just decides "fuck this" and ends it with the Fire Thunder (Emerald Erosion?)

I should probably see more than one Cara Noir match before typing this but I think he could hang if he came across the pond to work in the US. Maybe there's an opening for a guy who on first glance looks like an indy doof, but who can actually kick some ass. Especially since he's probably a little bit taller/larger than some of the guys over here.

The way the crowd popped for "There are three categories of wrestlers" makes me think that this is WALTER's Ian Rotten speech.

The ring announcer has news about Dreissker and Heisenberg. They will face each other on January 15th, 2022 in a 2 on 3 match (Dreissker and his buddy vs Heisenberg and his 2 buddies). IN A STEEL CAGE. Oh man, that sounds like it should be fun if that one on one big dude fight is any indicator.

For future ladder matches, I will refer to the ladder as the necessary tool to end a ladder match. Thanks subtitles!

This five man ladder match will be a little different to follow because I don't know these guys. One of the dudes is wearing a Brian Urlacher jersey. Urlacher thinks he has a friend but he doesn't. This dude Levaniel is apparently the Prince of the Stars. He is also the most cosmically beautiful star. But he is not here to monologue, he is here to win. He yells in German that he's different from his opponents because the fans love him. Apparently Oberhausen is the city of love, at least tonight. It feels like there's some interesting German micwork that i've missed out on because I don't know German nor regularly watch this promotion. The winner of this match gets a title match. The ladder starts the night on the stage. The masked guy decides "let me jump off this ladder while it's at ringside onto the other 4", which is his opening to make an attempt at winning (he doesn't win). They've combined the smallest ring with the largest ladder. Urlacher and his his friend start hitting double team moves (the Hart Attack, The 3-D, the Twist of Fate/Swanton). Urlacher looks Sami Zayn-ish. Nice discus lariat from Levaniel, who looks like he could be a Von Erich who found out relation through 23 and Me. Masked guy hits a 450 onto a guy who was on the ladder which looks cool. Urlacher could get the contract but he decides he wants his partner to join him. Invictus and Urlacher don't simultaneously grab the contract and they get dumped off. Archer uses the ladder as a platform for a suplex off the top which looks crazy. Archer grabs the ladder to block a suplex. Archer looks like a star during this but Levaniel wins this match.

Looking at the list of competitors if you need any help to sort out who the hell i'm typing about... Dennis Dullnig is the guy I called Urlacher due to his prematch attire. Aigle Blanc was the masked guy. Hektor Invictus was Dennis' partner. Tristan Archer looked like an asskicker even in defeat.

This backstage interviewer reminds me of the Emcee who works at baseball games. He interviews a guy who looks like bald Aaron Judge facially.

Next up is a match for the WXW Women's Title. Skye Smithson is called the Villainess, so I guess I know which wrestler is the heel. Her opponent is Iva Kolasky, she is from Hungary. Is there a bunch of Hungarian pro wrestling somewhere on YouTube that nobody in this country is searching for? gotta love this announcer describing Smithson as a misanthrope, which is why she's evil here. The name "Fisherwoman's Suplex" sounds clever. Kolasky wins suddenly with her Moonsault finisher. So that was a fun-ish several minutes.

Our main event is for the WXW Title. The challenger (who I compared to Aaron Judge facially) is The Marquee Player Jurn Simmons. The champion is The Axeman Axel Tischer. When the Axeman's testifying, a faithless man believes, he can take you to paradise, he can bring you to your knees. This ring announcer sure does get a lot of screen time (he's good too). Some nice beefy action in this one. I liked the dropkick to the leg to end a strike exchange. Nice press slam and standing moonsault combo from Simmons. Upon further reflection, Jurn Simmons looks like if Low-Ki ended up getting toxic waste on him, causing him to become larger while still being bald. There's some real fun action in this one. Simmons goes for a moonsault, with a look in his eyes like he's about to do something crazy (that might just be how he looks all the time, Mr. Announcer), he misses and Tischer gets 2 with a powerbomb. Simmons really does move for a guy his size. Tischer wins with a second Ligerbomb.

Well, there were certainly some beefy Germans (and beefy people working in Germany) on this card. The main event was pretty good. Walter's match was the match of the night. The beefy dude brawl (Heisenberg/Dreissker) was a surprise. I'm not sure if "The Prince of the Stars" is a cool wrestling nickname or the name of a film mocked on MST3K.

Edited November 29, 2023 by Cobra Commander

[Cobra Commander]

watched the November 1989 SNME

Mainly watched it because of the whole claim that they inserted a fall into Rockers/Brainbusters to make it a 2-1 finish instead of 2-0. From what I can see, I think I spotted the same fans in the front row during the alleged "inserted" fall that were there for the other two falls. I think some wires were crossed and it made it into print in the Observer. There was literally a SNME banner in sight a second before the fall alleged to have been taped in a different building (which if you wanna persist, is not necessarily proof that it's not the Kansas Coliseum in Wichita instead of whatever Topeka's building is called)

Also, what a hilariously complex threat from Mr. Perfect to destroy every Hulk Hogan title belt he can until he gets a title match. No wonder this feud drew so many fans.

I had seen Genius/Hogan before and it's really an enjoyable match.

Also if you've ever wondered "where are The Main Event episodes on the Network"... they're grouped with the SNME episodes.

edit: now i'm watching Clash 18 because it's also from Topeka and Steiners vs Vader/Hughes is a great "Steiners flinging large dudes" match

edit2: Young Pistol Tracy Smothers and The Taylor Made Man vs Brian Pillman and Marcus Alexander Bagwell? was this match booked by the Battlebowl Machine?

edit3: you can tell that the Kansas City Chiefs improved a bit from October 31st, 1989 (SNME in Topeka) to January 21st, 1992 (CotC in Topeka) because multiple Topeka fans are wearing Chiefs gear by early 1992.

To be more specific, the 1989 Chiefs were 3-5 through the end of October after being inept for most of the time post Christmas 1971. But by January 1992, the Chiefs were coming off of a 10-6 season where they won a playoff game for the first time since Super Bowl 4 and they had lost to the defending Super Bowl champs a few weeks before the Clash. So fans were feeling Chiefs fever because they stopped sucking by early 1992.

Also, Smothers/Taylor vs Pillman/Bagwell was a fun one. Smothers and Pillman is an amazing matchup of mullets.

edit4: Cactus vs Van Hammer ruled, as I had read for years. I probably saw this match before. Jack takes his trademark lunatic bumps in the process.. I'd imagine this match was not a good viewing experience for the live audience because it was 1992 and big screens didn't exist yet.

edit5: man Bobby Eaton is bumping for two in this awesome six-man tag (Arn/Eaton/Zbyszko vs Windham/Dustin/Ron Simmons)

edit6: Jim Ross' football anecdotes went to a whole new level when he mentioned Steve Austin's father played for Rice in the Cotton Bowl (his stepfather scored a touchdown for Rice in the Cotton Bowl, this claim was too specific to be made up)

edit7: love that they had an amazing "babyfaces win via bullshit" finish for the Jesse match so that he could be mad that the babyfaces quite obviously won through bullshit

Edited November 29, 2023 by Cobra Commander

[SirSmUgly]

Steiners against Vader/Hughes is legit one of my favorite matches ever. They caber toss Vader and back bodydrop Hughes into the lights. That is the best possible form of pro wrestling, IMO.

[Cobra Commander]

extra stuff from those cards I forgot to mention:

Bobby Heenan's belt shot where he was swinging the main plate at Warrior. Although they hadn't really invented belt shots by this time.

Tully seemed to be the more face-ish of the Tully/Arn team as they argued with Heenan which is sorta unexpected since Tully never really had any sort of face stint in the 80s. Then they fired Tully before his time came up and that sabotaged his effort to go south with Arn.

naturally the Vinnie Vegas debut was Kevin Nash doing an Italian-ish voice against "Thomas" Rich who would go on to be a Full-Blooded Italian. They had 3 separate matches with former York Foundation members like they just dumped that entire stable off on the side of the road to end it.

I guess Roman Reigns is doing the 1992 Lex Luger Champion's Prerogative for most of his 2023?

[clintthecrippler]

7 hours ago, Cobra Commander said:

watched the November 1989 SNME

Mainly watched it because of the whole claim that they inserted a fall into Rockers/Brainbusters to make it a 2-1 finish instead of 2-0. From what I can see, I think I spotted the same fans in the front row during the alleged "inserted" fall that were there for the other two falls. I think some wires were crossed and it made it into print in the Observer. There was literally a SNME banner in sight a second before the fall alleged to have been taped in a different building (which if you wanna persist, is not necessarily proof that it's not the Kansas Coliseum in Wichita instead of whatever Topeka's building is called)

 

Haha I literally did the same thing after listening to this week's Between The Sheets. I am with you on that, it definitely seemed like somehow Dave got some major wires crossed or straight up got bad intel, it looked like same banners and same front row crowd for the entire match. 

Me and a friend have been geeking out recently over odd late 80s/early 90s WWF marathon TV taping timeline quirks, notably the lengths they would go to run "live crowd only" angles to get the belt around the waist of someone that wasn't going to officially win the belt until a PPV after that night's taping.

Though I think my favorite one that I became aware of recently was finding out that a first round match for the 1990 Intercontinental Championship tournament was taped during Hour One of a Wrestling Challenge taping...the night AFTER the tournament final with Mr. Perfect winning was taped during Hour Three of a Superstars taping!

[Cobra Commander]

even if they switched footage after one of the cutaways to Heenan, they still have a 3rd fall that starts after a commercial break with Michaels on the mat after the end of the 2nd fall. So, yeah. Someone got confused.

Also, gonna note how much more lit up the Expocentre was for Clash in 1992 than SNME in 1989. WCW actually had a fully lit building and it didn't look depressing! (5500 fans, they also let 2 kids get in free for every adult, if AEW needs any BOGO ideas)

5 minutes ago, clintthecrippler said:

Me and a friend have been geeking out recently over odd late 80s/early 90s WWF marathon TV taping timeline quirks

WWF taped SNMEs before Survivor Series which aired post-Survivor Series in multiple years. 1988: SNME taped on November 16th and aired on November 26th, Survivor Series on 11/24. 1989: SNME taped on October 31st and aired on November 25th, Survivor Series on 11/23. Guess you could do that with Survivor Series due to the lack of singles matches.

WWF seemed to bounce around from "let's tape SNME a week or two out" to "let's tape SNME a month before it airs". They also waited until 1989 to actually air a SNME during the summer, for a show that was in the SNL timeslot for most of it's run.

Looking at Tatanka's end of 1993

• September 28th: loss to Borga taped, Tatanka gets stretchered out
• October 18th: Tatanka beats Mike Sharpe on a live RAW
• October 20th: taping of Undertaker taking Tatanka's place at the Survivor Series
• October 30th: Borga match airs on Superstars
• November 9th: taping of Tatanka winning a squash over Reno Riggins
• November 10th: taping of Tatanka winning a squash over Brooklyn Brawler
• November 13th: Undertaker taking Tatanka's place airs on Superstars
• November 24th: Survivor Series 93 happens
• December 11th: Tatanka/Brawler airs on Superstars
• December 12th: Tatanka/Riggins airs on Challenge

So i'm guessing there's some 30 year old piece of information that I didn't know about Tatanka pissing hot and getting suspended during this time or something, right?

No wonder Tatanka turned heel on Luger. Lex dumps him at the first opportunity to get the Undertaker.

[SirSmUgly]

IIRC, Tatanka caught a DV case and stepped away.

[Cobra Commander]

27 minutes ago, SirSmUgly said:

IIRC, Tatanka caught a DV case and stepped away.

searching for "Tatanka 1993 domestic violence" takes me to the TheSmartMarks forum, which is still online, somefuckinghow... and that thread mentions the Tatanka/Jimmy Del Ray accusations from 1995 that got JDR shitcanned and Tatanka kiboshed until he came back early in 1996

also mentions a rumor about Paul Diamond sleeping with Tatanka's wife, so they had to keep Tatanka away from Max Moon during the 1993 Rumble. Nothing about domestic violence in 1993 though.

[Cobra Commander]

watching "Rowdy Roddy Piper's Greatest Hits" and the scene where Piper/Orton/Orndorff toss Gene out of their gym and then beat up a random "bystander" on the streets is such an amazing 1980s New York scene

Also, Andre the Giant looking terrifying as he comes out with parts of a bandage over his head wound during the Andre/Snuka vs Piper/Schultz match

edit: man that Hamburg arena looked like a hangar once the Piper's Pit set went down during the Piper/Snuka coconut angle

Edited November 30, 2023 by Cobra Commander

[SirSmUgly]

I've bounced back to 1992 Superstars. One week out from SummerSlam, Vinnie Jr. claims that fans had hoped for "a scientific matchup" in Warrior/Savage, which is an absurd thing to say even for pastel-suited, bombastic color commentator Vinnie Jr. 

Though I've written about SummerSlam 1992, the final SNME for about fifteen years (on FOX, no less), and the 1993 Royal Rumble elsewhere in this thread, I think it might be worth stopping to write about Survivor Series 1992 when I get there. 

I think I might run through this six seasons of Superstars off and on over the next couple of years. I have weird nostalgia for 1995 WWF, so a year of TL Hopper and Salvatore Sincere squashes won't be a deterrent to me!

[Cobra Commander]

despite the fact that I only really started watching wrestling in late 1997, there's some mid-90s stuff that is in a weird nostalgic spot since it was the wrestling available to rent from Blockbuster/Movie Gallery when I started watching wrestling

stuff like 1993 WWF or 1995 WCW is oddly familiar to me even I wasn't watching it at the time it happened

[porksweats]

2 hours ago, SirSmUgly said:

I've bounced back to 1992 Superstars. One week out from SummerSlam, Vinnie Jr. claims that fans had hoped for "a scientific matchup" in Warrior/Savage, which is an absurd thing to say even for pastel-suited, bombastic color commentator Vinnie Jr. 

Though I've written about SummerSlam 1992, the final SNME for about fifteen years (on FOX, no less), and the 1993 Royal Rumble elsewhere in this thread, I think it might be worth stopping to write about Survivor Series 1992 when I get there. 

I think I might run through this six seasons of Superstars off and on over the next couple of years. I have weird nostalgia for 1995 WWF, so a year of TL Hopper and Salvatore Sincere squashes won't be a deterrent to me!

You've got some Rad Radford to look forward to!

[SirSmUgly]

3 hours ago, porksweats said:

You've got some Rad Radford to look forward to!

Rad Radford, Man Mountain Rock, Freddie Joe Floyd, Waylon Mercy's two-month reign of terror...'95 WWF was sweet.

[Cobra Commander]

Time for some..

Mid-South Wrestling (11/26/1983)

Krusher Darsow thinks Nikolai will defeat JYD when they wrestle.

Nikolai beats a jobber (Joshua Stroud) with a good physique who doesn't seem to know what to do out there. Darsow is scouting Nikolai because he wants to learn from him. Nikolai Volkoff as a serious threat is a bit of a trip compared to most of his WWF run.

Jim Neidhart actually looks like more of a maniac with a full beard and he beats a jobber (Tony Torres) who looks a bit shaky at times.

JYD goes for a few minutes with Tonga, who is from Tonga. Tonga would be The Barbarian, who was working as Tonga John from Samoa in World Class around this time. Tonga headbutts JYD and both sell it because this is 80s wrestling involving an Islander and a Black guy. Barbarian and JYD weren't on the same wave-length at times so we're 3 for 3 in enhancement matches where guys weren't exactly smoothly working.

Boyd Pierce putting the work in to talk about the confidence of Jim Cornette and the Midnight Express in their debut vs Rick Rood and Mike Jackson. I'm sure i've typed this but does Mike Jackson look like David Crockett or what. Express win with a double team as Dennis lifts up Mike Jackson and Bobby hits him with an elbow off the 2nd turnbuckle.

Dr. Death looks puffy compared to what he would be later. His opponent Frank Levert is also a big boy. Bill Watts loves to shoutout the important people that he spends time with. Doc hates Russians and one of them forfeited instead of facing him. Doc wins with the Stampede, which is one of the moves he can do well in 1983.

Wrestling 2 is in a Fred Rogers-esque outfit today next to Magnum TA and Lanny Poffo. Wrestling 2 notes that Lanny Poffo comes from a bad family and that he doesn't want TA in tag team action.

Meanwhile in the TA/Poffo vs Doug Vines/Karl Fergie match, Bill Watts flat out saying that Randy Savage is in the Poffo family. Magnum and Randy Savage would tag with each other at the Omni for Thanksgiving 1983. Of course, Bill Dundee coming in to book Mid-South would quickly end the idea of Lanny or Randy working in Mid-South. Randy Savage in 1984 Mid-South is one of those what-ifs, although his Memphis run was pretty good too.

Ted DiBiase is sending a warning to Jim Duggan from the set of Georgia/World Championship Wrestling that he's coming back (in like 9 months, IIRC)

Hacksaw Doogan is taking out Larry Higgins to end the show. Tom Lintz is standing by just in case they have the time for him. 

They have enough time to talk to Tom Lintz. He's 6'4/275 and he played a little football too. He's losing to Duggan next week.

and let's do another week!

Mid-South Wrestling (12/3/1983)

Krusher Darsow with hair is also a bit trippy since he spent a bunch of time either bald or with facepaint. Darsow at this time looks a little like Bron Breakker. Darsow's also working in jean shorts around this time. Bill Watts blames the Russians for Ken Patera losing at the Olympics because they got him drunk.

The Russians have been saying a lot of things about Dr. Death Steve Williams. Nikolai really enjoying using hairpulls to force Dr. Death to the mat. Ref taking a hell of a bump from Dr. Death. Darsow attacks Dr. Death on the outside and puts him in the backbreaker. Not sure that Nikolai came close to making contact on his running stomps. Darsow congratulates Nikolai in face Darsow attacking Dr. Death wasn't enough of a hint for you.

Lanny Poffo goes from tagging with Magnum TA last week to tagging with Joshua Stroud this week. Jim Cornette has two different suits for this TV taping. Bill Watts refers to Jimmy Hart as "a man named Hart, not Gary Hart". Joshua Stroud almost falls on his head taking a gutwrench suplex. Stroud takes the same doubleteam move from the first match for the loss.

Leaping Lanny Poffo is commentating this Magnum TA/Frank Lavert match instead of Bill Watts. Wrestling 2 is in a chair writing on a yellow legal pad for this one. Lanny says he's making his own name but Wrestling 2 is making that difficult. Yeah if Jim and Brian don't know when Bill Dundee became the booker, I'd guess Dundee isn't quite here yet considering all the Poffo talk.

The Missing Link still has a first name as of December 1983. Bill Watts is back so that Boyd doesn't have to talk anymore. Bill comparing Wrestling 2's kneelift to tennis players having specialized skills or knuckleball pitchers. Bill notes that Skandor Akbar has been absent from Mid-South lately because he's busy in World Class with the Von Erichs. Bill noting 2's rubbery way of getting out of moves (why yes, Wrestling 2 used to work as Rubberman Johnny Walker). Link teases the concept of headbutting Mid-South's ringpost of death but doesn't. Wrestling 2 wins with the kneelift after Link misses a move off the top rope.

Bill Watts saw a dude from the Hope Arkansas Watermelon Festival while Lanny Poffo was commentating TA/Lavert. Duggan wins with his Spear. Jim Ross talks to Duggan postmatch and Duggan's mad about what Krusher Darsow did.

Jim Ross interviews Krusher Darsow because Bill Watts couldn't possibly interview Darsow after what he did to Dr. Death. Darsow says he helped JYD but JYD didn't help him out. He also trained with Nikolai Volkoff and he's sick of seeing Dr. Death in the big matches instead of him.

Tonga from Tonga and King Carl Fergie are taking on Mike Jackson and Rick Rood in a true "who in the hell is gonna win this matchup". Two of these guys were stars in 1992 WCW. Jerry Lawler is making an appearance next week. Mike Jackson and Carl Fergie are putting work in together. Bill Watts talking about wrestling luring in warrior-like tribes from the Pacific Islands to the USA. Carl Fergie gets 2 trying to do a Jerry Lawler fistdrop. TV time runs out and this match ends without a winner.

This is a promotion in some active transition towards being awesome.

[clintthecrippler]

Darsow's heel turn was so fascinating to watch during the 1983 portion of my Mid-South watch project. Ultimately after the turn the turncoat gimmick veers more into generic "American turned Commie!" vibes, but I love that the start of it isn't Darsow being won over by any political ideology, but simply Darsow being a white meat babyface that had been on a winning streak and then finds himself in awe of how dominant Volkoff was in defeating him, and finding himself wanting to learn what the Russians are doing to attain that type of power in the ring.

Oh man, Joshua Stroud, they kept trotting him out for job duty for about a solid year and he never picked up the mechanical aspect of what to do out there. You could tell they thought there might be potential with him as he had a great build but the bell-to-bell never really clicked with him. There's a match in late 84/early 85 with John Nord The Barbarian where Nord is in his first few weeks in the company and still super green and clumsy that may be the worst actual in-ring match of the entire run of Mid-South that's on Peacock.

And yeah, early Dr. Death, some of the pieces are there but it's still very much a work-in-progress. He doesn't really become DR. DEATH until summer 1984 when he turns heel and starts getting himself into magnificent shape after graduating college and becoming full-time with Mid-South.

[SirSmUgly]

That 12/10/83 Mid-South having Ross and Lawler on PBP/color is quite the look into the future.

A bad future, mind you, as Lawler is actually decent on commentary in MSW rather than always shrieking or shrilly talking about "puppies" as from the Attitude Era on.

Edited December 1, 2023 by SirSmUgly

[twiztor]

i watched WCW Battlebowl '93 today. wow, that was a mistake. what a dud of a PPV overall. almost all of the random draw tag matches went around 15:00 minutes, which was WAY too long for a show with no storyline emotional beats to hit. 

the battle royal at the end was decent enough, but definitely nothing special. I did like how they ended up "eliminating" Flair from the final 4 due to injury on the rampway. then again, i just really like sets that use a ramp all the way to the ring apron, so maybe it's preference bias.

[Cobra Commander]

Guessing it’s a better idea to give Ric Flair/Steve Austin vs Scorpio/Maxx Payne nearly 15 minutes than Rick Rude/Shanghai Pierce vs Tex Slazenger/Marcus Bagwell?

[twiztor]

29 minutes ago, Cobra Commander said:

Guessing it’s a better idea to give Ric Flair/Steve Austin vs Scorpio/Maxx Payne nearly 15 minutes than Rick Rude/Shanghai Pierce vs Tex Slazenger/Marcus Bagwell?

yeah no surprise that Flair/Austin could work in a heatless format (also Scorpio is over with the crowd, which helps a bunch). the Austin-Flair interactions were among the best stuff on the card.

i like Tex/Shanghai, but they hadn't been on tv in months and there was no investment 

[Cobra Commander]

9 minutes ago, twiztor said:

yeah no surprise that Flair/Austin could work in a heatless format (also Scorpio is over with the crowd, which helps a bunch). the Austin-Flair interactions were among the best stuff on the card.

i like Tex/Shanghai, but they hadn't been on tv in months and there was no investment 

Not sure which two wrestlers were the last two in because they were sorta false advertising Arn and Sid up until the day of the PPV despite the stabbing/suspensions. Guessing that Keith Cole or Charlie Norris was on the threshold of being left off the PPV and that someone had to be stabbed to get Rip Rogers on a PPV in 1993.

I guess if you’re gonna have TV that was taped 6+ weeks before airing, Battlebowl was their best hope of not spoiling future storylines with their advanced taping schedule.