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Having finished the first episode, and without spoiling anything specific: geez, this version of the Punisher just doesn't give a single fuck if he accidentally mows down entire herds of innocent people, does he? SO many of those gunshots came incredibly close to blowing civilians' heads off, and it seems like Frank's aim isn't very good in this show. So far he isn't being portrayed anywhere near as careful and disciplined as the character usually is in the comics.

This is addressed later.

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So, do we get clubs that disguise as a white cane this season? That is the #1 question I have before starting.

only on ep 4, but nothing yet. I think we may have only seen him with his regular cane once in ep1 so far.

The bully club gets a major upgrade in the final episode.

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I hope the show gets better, because that second episode was just an embarrassingly large drop-off in quality from the first season.  

 

-So, spilled blood stays bright red and fluidly liquid for multiple days in a row, huh?  Especially in "hundred degree" heat?

 

-Vicious, ill-tempered trained attack dogs just instantly calm down and befriend some total stranger within seconds if he gives them a treat?  

 

-How the hell did Matt's Magic Concussion work?  His hearing veers wackily back and forth between "Superman with a hearing aid" and total fuckin' deafness?  Uh, guys, that's not a symptom of post concussive brain damage.  

 

-I hope they don't try to claim that Castle shot Murdock in the mask specifically intending just to wound him.  That's not how armor works in real life.  No armored clothing is guaranteed to stop any particular bullet, and nobody's aim with a short-barreled pistol gives you enough pinpoint accuracy to put the bullet exactly between the eyes (instead of, more likely, in one of the eyes) from that distance.  And even if all of the above aren't true, how would Castle know that the mask's armor was just thick enough to stop a bullet from killing Daredevil, but not thick enough to let him no-sell the gunshot and keep fighting?  

 

-The cops cleared the entire Hospital, but somehow never bothered to glance at the rooftop next door?  And how the hell did Foggy get Matt down from there and all the way home, dead weight and in full devil costume the entire time?  

 

-I literally groaned out loud when the pawn shop guy suddenly, apropos of nothing, tried to sell KIDDIE PORN to the Punisher.  "Hey, this huge threatening guy who looks and acts like a cop just came in, bought a cop radio, and took the bullets out of my gun... I'd better try to offer him the most widely-loathed product which completely infuriates 99.99% of the population!"  Fuck off with that contrived horseshit, this show is better than that.  

 

-We're going with "the evil careerist bitch in heels who sanctimoniously pretends to be a crusader for law and order while actually trampling over everyone in order to further her own career" cliche?  Really?  That was annoying enough when Dexter and Sons of Anarchy did it years ago, but LaGuerta and Stahl were at least portrayed with a lot more complexity and a little sympathy.  

 

-And since when does the district attorney sit in on a SWAT team raid and give them direct orders on tactics during a firefight?  

 

-And why would someone who's portrayed as being such an image-obsessed careerist apparently not give a shit if her raid ends up killing Daredevil... who, at this point, is massively popular with the general public?  

 

-How is she not breaking EVERY law by lying to the informant about what he's supposed to do and using him as live bait to entrap a mass-murderer?  They try to hang a lampshade on this by having Foggy point it out, but that still doesn't change the blatant illegality of her actions.  

 

-How did the Punisher even know they were going to be there?  They never even tried to explain that.  

 

-And THEN, how did he somehow force that basically-unmanned semi to drive into the area... and then FUCKING TELEPORT to the top of some water tower on the other side of the lot, in the blink of an eye?  

 

-And what the hell was Daredevil SWINGING FROM when he flew in like Spider-man and dropkicked Punisher off the water tower, when it was clearly the tallest thing in the whole place?  

 

-And finally, that last fight scene was pure bullshit.  We've got an entire SWAT team with rifles all firing at Punisher and Daredevil and hitting nothing but thin air for what felt like five minutes straight.  That was a fish-in-a-barrel situation if I've ever seen one, but somehow half-a-dozen marksmen with telescopic sights are unable to shoot two guys who are right in front of them and not even trying to dodge or take cover.  Imperial fucking Stormtroopers have better aim than that.  The only shot that lands is, of course, The Standard Upper-Arm Just A Flesh Wound which makes the recipient grunt in pain and is then promptly ignored forever after and doesn't seem to even slow Castle down for the rest of the fight.

 

-And THEN, after being shot in his dominant arm and beat half to death and falling through a skylight (...a skylight on the ground?!) which should have shredded him to ribbons, how does Castle just pick himself up and pick Daredevil's unconscious body up and somehow carry them both to safety, while being surrounded by cops, without leaving a trail of blood and broken glass with every step?

 

I'll keep watching because it's fuckin' Daredevil and I know what greatness this show is capable of.  But geez that was a lot of nonsense to put up with, especially comparing that embarrassingly phony big climax at the end to the gorgeously realistic masterpiece of a claustrophobic donnybrook which ended the second episode of the last season.  

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I'm actually in agreement with Jingus that most of the early Punisher stuff is pretty dumb. It actually becomes funny, because literally everyone speaks in hushed tones about how he's this this military-caliber tactician, and that's why one man is able to take out all these gangs alone...but the show never actually demonstrates his alleged next-level tacticality. Mostly his tactics consist of either "walk in with a big gun and start shooting" or "cause a mild distraction, then start shooting."

How does he go about carrying out the assassination of the only survivor of his most recent massacre in the hospital? Mr. Great Tactician - who claims he only hurts people who deserve it - walks in the front door with a goddamn sawed-off shotgun swinging off his arm like he's the Terminator, virtually assuring that 1) there will be a panic when everybody sees the dude with the shotgun, thereby drawing countless civilians into his line of fire, 2) he will likely have to get into a gunfight when police - who are just doing their jobs and certainly don't deserve it - try to stop the guy with the shotgun invading a hospital, 3) it will actually be MORE difficult for him to kill the ONE person he's actually there to kill because of this, and 4) the police - and ultimately, the gangs once the police plaster it all over the news - will have a picture of his face from the hospital security cameras (since he made no attempt to hide it), thus making it infinitely more difficult for him to do this oh-so-important job of eliminating the mob, which he feels required to do.

The show never even established why it was so important for Punisher to kill Grado that he would risk all that going down in a hospital. It's not like Grado could ID him, or was a high-value target. He's a low-level mook. The reward was not worth the risk there. Go kill the literally hundreds of other Grados out on the streets, if you need to get your fix.

I also liked, in the second episode, when the big payoff to Mr. Great Tactician's distratction was...standing in plainly visible sight atop the highest point in the area without any cover. (Okay, and how did the police NOT secure the highest vantage point DIRECTLY OVERLOOKING their field of operations?) Dude wasn't even kneeling up there! It's like his plan was, "I'm going to make myself THE BIGGEST POSSIBLE TARGET so anyone who wants to stop me can easily do so."

They put so much effort into trying to make him look like this cool Travis Bickle-meets-the Terminator hybrid, but they spend no effort making him smart, and, as a result, everybody else looks incompetent because the dumb guy - who is definitely not an unstoppable robot killing machine - gets over on them.

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One of the answers to Jingus' questions is a spoiler for later in the series:

 

- DA Reyes needed Punisher dead to try and cover up how badly she fucked up a drug sting and authorizing it to go down in a populated park that saw innocent people and an undercover cop get killed.  

 

Also, Grado was a murderer and a member of one of the gang's involved in his family's death.  Maybe to Frank, he just needed killing. 

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How many murderers and members of the gangs involved in his family's death were NOT in hospitals surrounded by innocents at the time Frank decided to tote his scattergun up in the spot? I'm guessing "a lot."

There was no reason for him to be so fixated on Grado that he caused that scene. It was dumb.

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Foggy admitted that getting Matt home in the Daredevil costume without being noticed was pure luck. It may be a cop-out, but they did acknowledge it.

 

And I imagine Castle wears some sort of kevlar clothing, which would at least keep his torso from getting cut up.

They're explaining more of the story than some of you are willing to admit.

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Sorry Jingus, most of your complaints ignore the facts.

 

OK I will try to do them all:

 


-So, spilled blood stays bright red and fluidly liquid for multiple days in a row, huh?  Especially in "hundred degree" heat?

 


Do you mean Matt's wound?  I don't think it was multiple days.  


 


-Vicious, ill-tempered trained attack dogs just instantly calm down and befriend some total stranger within seconds if he gives them a treat?  


 


They aren't attack dogs.  The dog Punisher took in was an abused dog in a dog fighting ring.  And maybe they are trained to be afraid of and submissive to humans.  Not sure why this is such a big complaint.  Maybe Daredevil's presence isn't scary or offensive to the dog especially when he gave it food.  Also some dogs are very motivated by food as well.


 


-How the hell did Matt's Magic Concussion work?  His hearing veers wackily back and forth between "Superman with a hearing aid" and total fuckin' deafness?  Uh, guys, that's not a symptom of post concussive brain damage.  


 


Keep in mind that Daredevil has enhanced senses that he got from exposure to chemicals.  Not sure why it should work exactly like a post-concussion symptom.


 


-I hope they don't try to claim that Castle shot Murdock in the mask specifically intending just to wound him.  That's not how armor works in real life.  No armored clothing is guaranteed to stop any particular bullet, and nobody's aim with a short-barreled pistol gives you enough pinpoint accuracy to put the bullet exactly between the eyes (instead of, more likely, in one of the eyes) from that distance.  And even if all of the above aren't true, how would Castle know that the mask's armor was just thick enough to stop a bullet from killing Daredevil, but not thick enough to let him no-sell the gunshot and keep fighting?  


 


Meh, it's a fictional TV show.  It was only a suggestion.  And it was a suggestion by Melvin Potter.  Maybe in the world of the MCU, Frank Castle can be that damn good where he aimed for what he thought was Daredevil's armored mask to be his "warning shot." Or maybe he didn't care either way.  


 


-The cops cleared the entire Hospital, but somehow never bothered to glance at the rooftop next door?  And how the hell did Foggy get Matt down from there and all the way home, dead weight and in full devil costume the entire time?  


 


It might not have been the roof next door.  The fight could've taken them some buildings away.


 


-I literally groaned out loud when the pawn shop guy suddenly, apropos of nothing, tried to sell KIDDIE PORN to the Punisher.  "Hey, this huge threatening guy who looks and acts like a cop just came in, bought a cop radio, and took the bullets out of my gun... I'd better try to offer him the most widely-loathed product which completely infuriates 99.99% of the population!"  Fuck off with that contrived horseshit, this show is better than that.  


 


Did you not see the Swastika tattoo on his neck?  The man is clearly a butter knife, not exactly the sharpest one in the drawer.  Once Punisher walked in the shop, he was obviously a dead man.


 


-We're going with "the evil careerist bitch in heels who sanctimoniously pretends to be a crusader for law and order while actually trampling over everyone in order to further her own career" cliche?  Really?  That was annoying enough when Dexter and Sons of Anarchy did it years ago, but LaGuerta and Stahl were at least portrayed with a lot more complexity and a little sympathy.  


 


DA Reyes is pretty cold blooded, but her character arc isn't over yet.  You have to watch more to understand.  There is more complexity to her later on.


 


-And since when does the district attorney sit in on a SWAT team raid and give them direct orders on tactics during a firefight?  


 


Not sure if this is unrealistic are not.  Are DA's not allowed to play roles in any type of police task forces or stings?  


 


-And why would someone who's portrayed as being such an image-obsessed careerist apparently not give a shit if her raid ends up killing Daredevil... who, at this point, is massively popular with the general public?  


 


There's a specific reason for this which I explained above.


 


-How is she not breaking EVERY law by lying to the informant about what he's supposed to do and using him as live bait to entrap a mass-murderer?  They try to hang a lampshade on this by having Foggy point it out, but that still doesn't change the blatant illegality of her actions.  


 


She's a corrupt DA and there's more explanation for this.


 


-How did the Punisher even know they were going to be there?  They never even tried to explain that.  


 


He had a stolen police radio with tactical bands.  Daredevil found them because he found Punisher's hideout and heard the frequencies on the stolen radio.


 


-And THEN, how did he somehow force that basically-unmanned semi to drive into the area... and then FUCKING TELEPORT to the top of some water tower on the other side of the lot, in the blink of an eye?  


 


This I don't know, but it doesn't really bother me.  Because he's The Punisher, that's why.


 


-And what the hell was Daredevil SWINGING FROM when he flew in like Spider-man and dropkicked Punisher off the water tower, when it was clearly the tallest thing in the whole place?  


 


He didn't swing in from anything.  Watch the fight again.  He climbs up ON THE WATER TOWER, jumps and just does a drop kick.  That's it.  No swinging or jumping from a higher place.


 


-And finally, that last fight scene was pure bullshit.  We've got an entire SWAT team with rifles all firing at Punisher and Daredevil and hitting nothing but thin air for what felt like five minutes straight.  That was a fish-in-a-barrel situation if I've ever seen one, but somehow half-a-dozen marksmen with telescopic sights are unable to shoot two guys who are right in front of them and not even trying to dodge or take cover.  Imperial fucking Stormtroopers have better aim than that.  The only shot that lands is, of course, The Standard Upper-Arm Just A Flesh Wound which makes the recipient grunt in pain and is then promptly ignored forever after and doesn't seem to even slow Castle down for the rest of the fight.


 


The cops were clearly trying to avoid shooting Daredevil and didn't want to shoot him.  Plus it was raining and they were constantly moving targets.  And one was able to hit Punisher.


 


-And THEN, after being shot in his dominant arm and beat half to death and falling through a skylight (...a skylight on the ground?!) which should have shredded him to ribbons, how does Castle just pick himself up and pick Daredevil's unconscious body up and somehow carry them both to safety, while being surrounded by cops, without leaving a trail of blood and broken glass with every step?


 


He clearly wasn't beaten half to death.  This is Frank Castle.  He's not a normal dude.  There was some blood trail after the drop.  Maybe Punisher knew the area and knew how to get out without being detected. 


 


 



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How many murderers and members of the gangs involved in his family's death were NOT in hospitals surrounded by innocents at the time Frank decided to tote his scattergun up in the spot? I'm guessing "a lot."

There was no reason for him to be so fixated on Grado that he caused that scene. It was dumb.

 

Frank claims he knew what he was doing and that Karen Page was never in any danger.  I'm not saying he's right, but that's what he thinks in his warped mind.  Grado was his target and even with a shotgun, he believes he wouldn't have harmed Karen.

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How many murderers and members of the gangs involved in his family's death were NOT in hospitals surrounded by innocents at the time Frank decided to tote his scattergun up in the spot? I'm guessing "a lot."

There was no reason for him to be so fixated on Grado that he caused that scene. It was dumb.

Frank claims he knew what he was doing and that Karen Page was ever in any danger.  I'm not saying he's right, but that's what he thinks in his warped mind.  Grado was his target and even with a shotgun, he believes he wouldn't have harmed Karen.

Yeah, that was an eye-rolling attempt to explain away that scene. So bad.

But you're really missing the point I was making, which is that for a guy who's supposed to be a tactical genius, he exhibited zero tact in putting together that assassination attempt. And he did it all to get...just a guy. It would be different if Grado could ID him or had some information that could put the authorites onto him. That might've actually called for desperate action on Frank's part. It would be different if Grado was a high-value target (say, an actual gang leader) who he couldn't let escape into the system. But Grado was Just A Guy, one of hundreds of guys just like him, and it made no sense that Frank would risk so much (the lives of innocents, his own freedom) on his slapdash IMA CURRY MA SHOTGUN UP IN DUR AND GIT MA MAYUN plan.

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I don't think Frank was worried about genius tactics so much as annihilating all the gang members and perps he saw as responsible for his family's death.  He made plenty of tactical errors throughout this season.

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I don't think Frank was worried about genius tactics so much as annihilating all the gang members and perps he saw as responsible for his family's death. He made plenty of tactical errors throughout this season.

Hard to annihilate the gang members responsible for your family's death when you're in jail or dead because of your dumbass plans. FORGIVE ME FAMILY, FOR I HAVE FAILED YOU. I WAS GUNNED DOWN/ARRESTED WHILE SHOOTING UP A HOSPITAL IN AN ATTEMPT TO FINISH OFF A LOW-LEVEL MOOK WITH ONLY A TANGENTIAL RELATION TO YOUR DEATHS AND NOW THE MASTERMINDS WILL FOREVER GO UNPUNISHED! SHAME SHAME!

Go back and watch the first couple episodes, and take a shot every time somebody talks about what a tactical genius this Punisher guy is. You will be lit in a hurry. That's how the show characterizes him, in words anyway: he succeeds in his one man war because of his next-level tactics and training. But he never actually acts like a tactical genius. In fact, his plans are often quite dumb and do as much to jeopardize his war on crime as further it.

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Jesus, you're so in the tank for this, you just can't even fathom what I'm getting at here. I would try to explain it further, but I don't know how much more explicit I can make it and you wouldn't let yourself get it anyway.

You know, you can like something while acknowledging certain parts of it are dumb, right? This is far from some flawless work of art we're talking about.

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Jesus, you're so in the tank for this, you just can't even fathom what I'm getting at here. I would try to explain it further, but I don't know how much more explicit I can make it and you wouldn't let yourself get it anyway.

You know, you can like something while acknowledging certain parts of it are dumb, right? This is far from some flawless work of art we're talking about.

Is this really worth fighting over? Jesus...

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Jesus, you're so in the tank for this, you just can't even fathom what I'm getting at here. I would try to explain it further, but I don't know how much more explicit I can make it and you wouldn't let yourself get it anyway.

You know, you can like something while acknowledging certain parts of it are dumb, right? This is far from some flawless work of art we're talking about.

 

Calm down EVA.  It's just a TV show.  I thought what Castle did in the hospital was reckless and insane personally.  But I don't really care.  Even when he told that excuse ot Karen, I thought it was insane.  If he was using something without a spread radius like a shotgun, his explanation would've made more sense.  But that's what Frank said and believes.  Not saying he's right, but that's what they went with.  

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Well, it's something worth talking about, as it pertains to the quality of the show we're all here to discuss. But when one party to the conversation apparently doesn't even really know what we're talking about, then no, I guess it's really not worth continuing. That way leads the Path of Rage.

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Well, it's something worth talking about, as it pertains to the quality of the show we're all here to discuss. But when one party to the conversation apparently doesn't even really know what we're talking about, then no, I guess it's really not worth continuing. That way leads the Path of Rage.

When you start throwing around terms like "You're so in the tank", you left the realm of "discussion" behind you.

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Well, Vile has clearly been in the tank for this show for a while now. He hasn't even tried to hide it. Check his post history, if you like (but, I mean, I wouldn't). You won't have to look far to find him grandstanding for it in the lead up.

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