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2023 Non-Event General MMA Talk Thread

Elsalvajeloco

By Elsalvajeloco
in BOXING & MMA

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Elsalvajeloco

Elsalvajeloco

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This is a very strong way to finish out 2023. With the way the LHW division is kinda jacked up, Jiri vs. Alex Pereira is a welcomed sight for sore eyes.

I believe that Pantoja vs. Brandon Royval II was also announced for UFC 296.

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J.T.

J.T.

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Jones's out of ring antics have killed my interest in any of his fights.  I really don't care about the UFC Heavyweight Division unless one of the guys in the ring goes by Black Beast.

Happy for Jiri but he will be in the cage with Alex Pereira.  If Glover can chin Jiri, then Alex certainly can.

Leon Edwards vs. Colby Covington should be interesting.  Two guys that depend on high volume offense to win.  I hate to say it, but I'd have to give a slight edge to Covington as I think he's better on the ground and will just drag Leon to the mat if shit gets hairy.  Leon has respectable takedown defense, but he's no Kamaru Usman. 

If Leon keeps it standing and doesn't allow Colby to force him to fight off of his back foot, then I think Rocky wins.

 

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The Natural

The Natural

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Meltzer:

--Alistair Overeem, who is the only man to hold two major organization world heavyweight titles in MMA at the same time as well as the biggest kickboxing title (K-1 Grand Prix winner) also at the same time, announced his retirement today. Overeem said he was going into Dutch politics. He had a very storied 24-year career which also included a European championship in submission wrestling. During his career he had wins over Peter Aerts, Gokhan Saki, Tyrone Spong and Badr Hari in kickboxing and Vitor Belfort, Igor Vovchanchyn, Sergei Kharitonov, Mark Hunt, Gary Goodridge, Kazuyuki Fujita, Fabricio Werdum, Brock Lesnar, Frank Mir, Stefan Struve, Roy Nelson, Junior Dos Santos, Andrei Arovlovki, Sergei Pavlovich and Augusto Sakai in MMA.

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The Natural

The Natural

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31 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Holy shit. Alexander Volkanovski should have had an immediate rematch anyway, he beat Islam Makhachev in my opinion and it's still the Fight of the Year. If Volk won he'd have been chasing Kamaru Usman and Anderson Silva for the record of most consecutive wins. Volk would have held the UFC Lightweight and Featherweight Championship at the same time, he gets the chance again. If Volk can win on 11 days short notice, it'll be one of the biggest MMA achievements ever.

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jaedmc

jaedmc

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Holy shit. I thought Paulo Costa's elbow surgery was going to be as wacky as this show was going to get.

Now Do Bronx is out and Volk is in. Just madness.

Just the mind games of Volk accepting the fight is crazy. Like he already fought Islam, but he's so confident from that encounter that he thinks he can win at any time, any place. 11 days notice.

So much pressure just shifted onto Islam Makhachev's shoulders.

Fuuuuuuck who wants to see Alexander Volkanovski vs. Justin Gaethje in a BMF Lightweight Unification match? A fucking dream.

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The Natural

The Natural

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This is big. USADA leaves UFC.

We can confirm that Conor McGregor has re- entered the USADA testing pool as of Sunday, October 8, 2023. We have been clear and firm with the UFC that there should be no exception given by the UFC for McGregor to fight until he has returned two negative tests and been in the pool for at least six months. The rules also allow USADA to keep someone in the testing pool longer before competing based on their declarations upon entry in the pool and testing results.

Unfortunately, we do not currently know whether the UFC will ultimately honor the six-month or longer requirement because, as of January 1, 2024, USADA will no longer be involved with the UFC Anti-Doping Program. Despite a positive and productive meeting about a contract renewal in May 2023, the UFC did an about-face and informed USADA on Monday, October 9, that it was going in a different direction.

We are disappointed for UFC athletes, who are independent contractors who rely on our independent, gold-standard global program to protect their rights to a clean, safe, and fair Octagon. The UFC's move imperils the immense progress made within the sport under USADA's leadership.

The relationship between USADA and UFC became untenable given the statements made by UFC leaders and others questioning USADA's principled stance that McGregor not be allowed to fight without being in the testing pool for at least six months. One UFC commentator echoed this, recently declaring that USADA should not oversee the UFC program since we held firm to the six-month rule involving McGregor, and since we do not allow fighters without an approved medical basis to use performance-enhancing drugs like experimental, unapproved peptides or testosterone for healing or injuries simply to get back in the Octagon.

Fighters long-term health and safety - in addition to a fair and level playing field - are more important to USADA than short-term profits at the expense of clean athletes. USADA is proud of the work we've done over the past eight years to clean up the UFC, and we will continue to provide our unparalleled service to UFC athletes through the remainder of our current contract, which ends December 31, 2023. As always, we will continue to uphold the rights and voices of clean athletes in all sport."

Don't blame USADA. You can't make an exception for a fighter, should be one rule for all and someone who as his nickname says is notorious.

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The Natural

The Natural

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2 hours ago, Teflon Turtle said:

Usman/Chimaev is now apparently official, Dana White announced it on his Instagram. Kind of confusing how he worded it, but it sounds like the fight will still take place at middleweight.

Winner gets a UFC Middleweight Championship fight against UFC Middleweight Champion Sean Strickland says Dana White:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CyRf-s5SIcd/?utm_source=ig_embed&ig_rid=b4317f6d-df26-4356-b59c-a1a570e0aeb3&ig_mid=9C1BB58F-B015-47B9-8982-AB4761C54568

Least Israel Adesanya doesn't get an immediate rematch. Dricus du Plessis will be pissed.

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jaedmc

jaedmc

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LOL. Two guys not ranked at Middleweight fighting for a shot at the middleweight champion.

How much do they hate Dricus?

There is now a possible timeline where we get Israel Adesanya vs. Kamaru Usman for the Middleweight title, and Alexander Volkanovski vs. Justin Gaethje for the Lightweight title in 2024.

And even better, USADA is out and all the PEDs are back on the table BAYBAY.

2024 is gonna be wild, I can feel it. HORSE MEAT FOR EVERYONE.

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Elsalvajeloco

Elsalvajeloco

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1 hour ago, jaedmc said:

And even better, USADA is out and all the PEDs are back on the table BAYBAY.

2024 is gonna be wild, I can feel it. HORSE MEAT FOR EVERYONE.

Okay, everyone needs to hold their horses on this one.

First off, they can always go the VADA route which has always been notoriously tougher in terms of testing than USADA. The only road block is the weird dislike between Margaret Goodman and the UFC. I mean even their official twitter today comments negatively on UFC. I dunno if it's cause Goodman was the official doctor in Nevada for years and she didn't like the Fertittas/Dana when they took over UFC/when the Fertittas were on the commission in Nevada or the fact that UFC basically ignored VADA and went with USADA instead when VADA became the unofficial testing partner with most boxing outfits. If that little beef can be squashed, VADA testing is going to be even more harsher. More transparent than USADA as well, but definitely harsher.

Second, the UFC has enough money now where they can administer their own form of Olympic style testing. There is nothing in the rules of any commission AFAIK that disallows that. It would also been easier to circumvent the testing pool requirements, which has always been an issue when it came to the UFC. Moreover, regarding the aforementioned transparency, USADA has fumbled a few times especially going back to earlier in their partnership with the UFC. I can see it were the UFC no longer saw the benefit of going with USADA when it's not as respected as VADA and it's nothing the UFC couldn't do on their own.

Lastly, when did the partnership with USADA begin? Like seven or eight years ago? In that time, I am safely assuming the commissions themselves have made advancements in terms of actual testing. People are still failing commission testing regularly. You just don't hear about it because it looks like folks at the NSAC for example no longer make it about themselves and want to hold a public hearing to undress the fighters. IMO it may not be a 1:1 ratio, but if you mistime your cycle, you're as likely to fail a test administered in New York, Nevada, or New Jersey as you are a USADA test. That's what the science comes down to. USADA was around long enough where the people who were on something have either stopped doing whatever it is they were doing OR more likely, have figured out a way to game the system. However, they have to be extremely careful. It's the same way with VADA cause you still have folks in boxing looking like they're about to compete in a fitness or bodybuilding competition rather than a boxing match. Yes, folks are much smaller and softer. There are still very much exceptions to the rule. It always kills me on Twitter some random Saturday when folks who likely have never ever seen a gym are accusing fighters no matter the combat sport of being on PEDs well after the implementation of more advanced testing. The eye test is always going to form public opinion even if it's largely way off base more than the actual testing unless someone fails.

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jaedmc

jaedmc

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8 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Okay, everyone needs to hold their horses on this one.

I already said horse meat for everyone, we can't return these horses, homie.

Joe Rogan said within the last two weeks that UFC should go in house with testing, which felt like a huge red flag that the USADA/UFC relationship was about to end. I think he said it because it was already being discussed between the top brass.

I doubt they go to VADA, because in USADA's statement they imply that the lack of exemption for Connor is what soured a relationship they thought was good back in May. So if anything the UFC is probably looking for something with more wiggle room to get guys they know are using (even if just to heal up), back in the cage ASAP.

And they're probably right to move on from USADA anyway. It seems like there are a lot of problems with the testing, and getting around the tests doesn't seem very difficult according to some fighters and people I'd consider an expert on the subject. So if people are still using, then why be in a business partnership with them, right?

 

 

 

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Elsalvajeloco

Elsalvajeloco

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The thing about though is VADA is voluntary (shit it's part of the acronym) so there isn't really a year round testing pool that rolls over unless the UFC decided to implement it. What it is basically is the length of a normal training camp (eight weeks prior to the fight) and then I am assuming part of that covers immediate few days before the fight. Those results get to sent to whatever commission or sanctioning body is overseeing the fight. Then, that's it. You don't get tested again until eight weeks before your next fight. 

For a Conor McGregor or whomever, that's more desirable than covering the time before you start training. The only downside is if you're on something, it's way more thorough than typical USADA testing.

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jaedmc

jaedmc

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I wonder why Conor and UFC even bothered getting him back in the testing pool this week. (This week has been nuts.)

If they want him for UFC300 then wouldn't really need him in the pool where he could potentially get popped.

The report I read last night said UFC hasn't commented on it yet, and I haven't read anything from them. It makes me wonder if the USADA just said fuck it, and publicly announced the break up before Dana and Company were sure that's what they were going to do.

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Elsalvajeloco

Elsalvajeloco

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Probably a little from a Column A and little from Column B.

IMO I don't think Conor would have entered the testing pool unless he was good and ready. You don't go through all this and then randomly decide to do that. There is no hard deadline for him to fight, especially in light of the USADA news.

Moreover, I think after all this, I am not sure even Conor knows what the hell is left of himself when it comes to fighting. That last McGregor fight feels like it happened a decade ago and so much has happened in and around the divisions he has competed in. It's starting to be the Tyson Fury thing where it's just talk of a bunch of fights that haven't happened yet and realistically have windows closing cause folks win and lose.

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