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AWA Results: Podcast and Discussion


goodhelmet
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I am posting this here as a catch all for AWA results discussion as well as a discussion on the podcast...placetobenation.com/good-will-wrestling-the-best-awa-matches-of-the-1980s/

Will is joined by Dylan Hales of the Wrestling Culture podcast, wrestling statistician Chris Harrington from www.indeedwrestling.com and wrestling historian Kris Zellner to discuss the best matches of the AWA from the 1980s. Over three hours of audio enjoyment as we count down the Top 20 matches from the decade and discuss the greatness of wrestlers including Nick Bockwinkel, Stan Hansen, Curt Hennig, Rick Martel, Crusher Blackwell and Jumping Jim Brunzell!!! The matches discussed are a result of the DVDVR message board project conducted over the past year.Mookieghana will follow with complete results not discussed in the podcast.

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https://sites.google.com/site/chrisharrington/mookieghana-prowrestlingstatistics/top80s_awa_results

rank match date points

1 Nick Bockwinkel vs. Curt Hennig (11/21/86) 6002

2 Buddy Rose & Doug Somers vs. Midnight Rockers (8/30/86) 5947

3 Buddy Rose & Doug Somers vs. Midnight Rockers (Cage Match) (1/17/87) 5601

4 Nick Bockwinkel vs. Wahoo McDaniel (8/28/83) 5501

5 Stan Hansen vs. Curt Hennig (5/31/86) 5265

6 Buddy Rose & Doug Somers vs. Midnight Rockers (Cage Match) (12/25/86) 5246

7 King Tonga, Masked Superstar, & Sheik Adnan Kaissey vs. Crusher Blackwell & Sgt. Slaughter (Cage Match) (4/21/85) 5045

8 Nick Bockwinkel vs. Curt Hennig (5/2/87) 5001

9 Jerry Lawler vs. Kerry Von Erich (12/13/88) 5000

10 Nick Bockwinkel vs. Rick Martel (9/20/84) 4868

11 Tito Santana & Rick Martel vs. High Flyers (8/29/82) 4847

12 Jerry Lawler vs. Curt Hennig (7/16/88) 4774

13 Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Rick Martel (9/29/85) 4753

14 Jerry Blackwell & Sheik Adnan Al-Kaissie vs. High Flyers (Cage Match) (4/18/82) 4752

15 Buddy Rose & Doug Somers vs. Midnight Rockers (1/27/87) 4715

16 Nick Bockwinkel vs. Curt Hennig (12/25/86) 4707

17 Ken Patera, Jesse Ventura & Bobby Heenan vs. Hulk Hogan & High Flyers (3/13/83) 4670

18 Da Crusher & Greg Gagne vs. Crusher Blackwell & Sheik Adnan Kaissey (Cage Match) (3/25/84) 4543

19 Crusher Blackwell vs. Mad Dog Vachon (Algerian Death Match) (5/22/83) 4536

20 Stan Hansen vs. Crusher Blackwell (6/28/86) 4528

21 Nick Bockwinkel vs. Ric Flair (1/17/86) 4519

22 Adrian Adonis & Bob Orton Jr. vs. Midnight Rockers (January 1988) 4470

23 Mr. Saito vs. Rick Martel (4/24/85) 4455

24 Ric Flair vs. Magnum TA (9/28/85) 4368

25 Nick Bockwinkel vs. Rick Martel (3/28/85) 4359

26 Crusher Blackwell & Ken Patera vs. High Flyers (11/24/83) 4342

27 Nick Bockwinkel vs. Curt Hennig (3/7/87) 4339

28 Stan Hansen vs. Nick Bockwinkel (4/20/86) 4330

28 Nick Bockwinkel vs. Rick Martel (8/16/84) 4330

30 Stan Hansen vs. Sgt. Slaughter (2/23/86) 4311

31 Crusher Blackwell & Sheik Adnan Kaissey vs. Baron Von Raschke & Mad Dog Vachon (Taped Fist Match) (3/13/83) 4268

32 Nick Bockwinkel vs. Larry Zbyszko (7/11/87) 4220

33 East-West Connection vs. High Flyers (Cage Match) (3/22/81) 4211

34 Alexis Smirnoff, Buddy Rose & Doug Somers vs. Midnight Rockers & Curt Hennig (6/28/86) 4177

35 Buddy Rose, Doug Somers & Sherri Martel vs. Midnight Rockers & Despina Montegues (11/27/86) 4120

36 Stan Hansen vs. Leon White (3/13/86) 4038

37 Bill Dundee & Jerry Lawler vs. Original Midnight Express (10/30/87) 3979

38 Wahoo McDaniel vs. Curt Hennig (12/27/87) 3962

39 Stan Hansen vs. Sgt. Slaughter (2/2/86) 3887

40 Nick Bockwinkel & Mr. Saito vs. High Flyers (3/7/85) 3871

41 Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Rick Martel (5/13/84) 3864

42 Rick Martel vs. Harley Race (4/20/86) 3859

43 Nick Bockwinkel & Mr. Saito vs. The Fabulous Ones (9/30/84) 3824

43 Nick Bockwinkel vs. Rick Martel (7/19/85) 3824

45 Nick Bockwinkel vs. Curt Hennig (6/14/84) 3731

46 Terry Gordy vs. Rick Martel (August 1985) 3723

47 Buddy Rose & Doug Somers vs. Midnight Rockers (4/20/86) 3670

48 Wahoo McDaniel vs. Manny Fernandez (10/15/88) 3631

49 Ken Patera & Brad Rheingans vs. Badd Company (3/25/89) 3625

50 East-West Connection vs. High Flyers (3/1/81) 3563

51 Stan Hansen vs. Sgt. Slaughter (Bunkhouse Match) (3/9/86) 3545

52 Stan Hansen vs. Curt Hennig (2/1/86) 3489

53 Mr. Saito vs. Curt Hennig (3/28/85) 3483

54 Nick Bockwinkel vs. Rick Martel (3/13/83) 3451

55 Nick Bockwinkel vs. Col. DeBeers (4/17/86) 3450

56 Original Midnight Express vs. Midnight Rockers (12/27/87) 3438

57 Crusher Blackwell & Ken Patera vs. Blackjack Mulligan & Jerry Lawler (3/4/84) 3435

58 The Road Warriors vs. High Flyers (3/28/85) 3316

59 Jerry Lawler vs. Curt Hennig (2/19/88) 3280

60 Greg Gagne vs. Curt Hennig (5/30/87) 3272

60 Buddy Rose vs. Marty Jannetty (10/18/86) 3272

62 Rick Martel vs. Boris Zuhkov (Cage Match) (11/14/85) 3270

63 Nick Bockwinkel, Mr. Saito, & Bobby Heenan vs. Blackjack Lanza & The Fabulous Ones (9/9/84) 3268

64 Nick Bockwinkel & Ray Stevens vs. Greg Gagne & Curt Hennig (6/13/85) 3262

65 Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Jim Brunzell (3/15/84) 3250

66 Nick Bockwinkel vs. Rick Martel (12/8/83) 3219

67 Mike Rotundo vs. Doug Somers (5/1/86) 3201

68 Col. Debeers vs. Jerry Blackwell (Ladder Match) (11/27/86) 3173

69 Nick Bockwinkel vs. Hulk Hogan (4/24/83) 3169

70 Nick Bockwinkel vs. Larry Zbyszko (11/27/86) 3168

71 Nick Bockwinkel vs. Jim Brunzell (6/11/81) 3078

72 Greg Gagne & Super Destroyer Mark II vs. Nick Bockwinkel & Bobby Heenan (10/3/80) 2976

73 The Nasty Boys vs. Rock n Roll Express (4/16/88) 2956

74 Rick Martel vs. Brad Rheingans (9/9/84) 2949

75 Nick Bockwinkel & Ray Stevens vs. Super Ninja & Larry Zbyszko (2/21/87) 2933

76 Nick Bockwinkel & Mr. Saito vs. Verne & Greg Gagne (4/21/85) 2918

77 Big John Studd & Jerry Blackwell vs. High Flyers (2/20/81) 2891

78 Nick Bockwinkel vs. Curt Hennig (2/7/85) 2833

79 Nick Bockwinkel vs. Larry Zbyszko (2/23/86) 2810

80 Wahoo McDaniel vs. Manny Fernandez (Strap Match) (12/13/88) 2806

81 Rick Martel vs. Jimmy Garvin (3/7/85) 2774

82 Nick Bockwinkel & Mr. Saito vs. Curt & Larry Hennig (11/8/84) 2751

83 Crusher Blackwell & Sheik Adnan Kaissey vs. Verne Gagne & Mad Dog Vachon (4/24/83) 2750

84 Wahoo McDaniel vs. Curt Hennig (Indian Strap Match) (11/28/87) 2738

85 Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Billy Robinson (3/11/84) 2702

86 Adrian Adonis vs. Jim Brunzell (6/28/81) 2678

87 Paul Diamond vs. Pat Tanaka (11/18/89) 2630

88 Sgt. Slaughter vs. Boris Zuhkov (9/28/85) 2594

89 Greg Gagne vs. Super Destroyer Mark II (5/1/80) 2563

90 Wahoo McDaniel vs. Curt Hennig (9/12/87) 2556

91 Buddy Rose, Doug Somers, & Larry Zbyszko vs. Steve Pardee, Mike Rotundo, Jimmy Snuka (4/17/86) 2555

92 Col. DeBeers, Buddy Rose & Doug Somers vs. Nick Bockwinkel, Steve Pardee & Brad Rheingans (5/31/86) 2521

93 Jerry Lawler & Greg Gagne vs. Riki Choshu & Mr. Saito (5/14/88) 2512

94 Crusher Blackwell vs. Masked Superstar (3/7/85) 2510

95 Curt Hennig vs. Greg Gagne (6/12/88) 2477

96 Nick Bockwinkel vs. Hulk Hogan (4/18/82) 2414

97 Nick Bockwinkel vs. Mad Dog Vachon (11/24/83) 2386

98 Manny Fernandez, Teijho Khan & Soldat Ustinov vs. Robert Gibson & The Top Guns (6/12/88) 2348

99 Nick Bockwinkel vs. Brad Rheingans (7/3/83) 2335

100 Bobby Duncum & Billy Robinson vs. Jim Brunzell & Tonga Kid (4/21/85) 2325

101 Hulk Hogan vs. Mr. Saito (8/28/83) 2310

102 Badd Company vs. Midnight Rockers (2/19/88) 2291

103 Hulk Hogan, Buck Zumhoffe & Baron Von Raschke vs. Bobby Heenan, Ken Patera & Bobby Duncum (2/28/82) 2280

104 Greg Gagne vs. Larry Zbyszko (July 1987) 2265

105 Mando Guerrero vs. Pat Tanaka (6/12/88) 2236

106 Wahoo McDaniel vs. Curt Hennig (3/19/88) 2233

107 Buddy Rose & Doug Somers vs. Jesse Hernandez & Leon White (5/1/86) 2207

108 Wahoo McDaniel vs. Boris Zuhkov (Russian Chain Match) (8/29/87) 2204

109 Crusher Blackwell, Larry Hennig & Tom Zenk vs. The Fabulous Freebirds (8/22/85) 2103

110 Lord Alfred Hayes vs. Bobby Heenan (1/13/80) 2063

111 Buddy Rose & Doug Somers vs. Greg Gagne & Jimmy Snuka (9/20/86) 2048

112 Col. DeBeers, Larry Zbyszko & Doug Somers vs. Greg Gagne, Curt Hennig, & Jimmy Snuka (7/26/86) 2036

113 Nick Bockwinkel vs. Boris Zuhkov (8/30/86) 2024

114 Nick Bockwinkel vs. Billy Robinson (12/25/81) 2020

115 Little Tokyo & Lord Littlebrook vs. Cowboy Lang & Little Coco (7/18/85) 2018

115 Crusher Blackwell vs. Bruiser Brody (No DQ) (10/21/84) 2018

117 Buddy Rose & Doug Somers vs. Scott Hall & Curt Hennig (5/17/86) 2011

118 Crusher Blackwell & King Kong Bundy vs. The Road Warriors (11/22/84) 1990

119 Curt Hennig vs. Mitch Snow (10/30/87) 1970

120 Curt Hennig vs. DJ Petersen (8/29/87) 1966

121 Crusher Blackwell vs. Bruiser Brody (9/30/84) 1959

122 Nick Bockwinkel & Ray Stevens vs. Larry & Curt Hennig (4/24/85) 1954

123 Leon White vs. Boris Zuhkov (2/21/87) 1939

124 Mike Rotundo & Barry Windham vs. The Fabulous Ones (4/20/86) 1863

125 Larry Zbyszko vs. Nikita Koloff (11/18/89) 1815

126 Mike Rotundo & Curt Hennig vs. Mr. Go & Larry Zbyszko (5/1/86) 1810

127 Midnight Rockers vs. Kevin Kelly & Nick Kiniski (12/27/87) 1789

128 Jerry Blackwell vs. Billy Robinson (12/3/81) 1783

129 Crusher Blackwell & Ken Patera vs. Dino Bravo & Steve O (8/28/83) 1758

130 Crusher Blackwell vs. Kamala (Bodyslam Challenge) (9/28/85) 1739

131 Cactus Jack Manson & The Rock n Roll RPM's vs. Chavo, Hector, & Mando Guerrero (12/13/88) 1729

132 Sgt. Slaughter vs. Col. DeBeers (Boot Camp Match) (12/13/88) 1687

133 Crusher Blackwell & Ken Patera vs. Steve O & Buck Zumhofe (2/3 Falls) (4/15/84) 1683

134 Bobby & Jackie Fulton vs. Destruction Crew (11/18/89) 1607

135 Verne Gagne vs. Nick Bockwinkel (7/18/80) 1584

136 Bob Backlund & Brad Rheingans vs. Butch Reed & Larry Zbyszko (4/21/85) 1566

137 Ken Patera & Jesse Ventura vs. Hulk Hogan & Mad Dog Vachon (1/16/83) 1560

138 Col. DeBeers vs. Buck Zumhofe (2/23/86) 1556

139 Crusher Blackwell vs. Da Crusher (No DQ) (2/26/84) 1532

140 Larry Zbyszko vs. Ray Stevens (5/30/87) 1413

141 Col. Debeers vs. Jimmy Snuka (Glove On A Pole Match) (2/21/87) 1277

142 Jimmy Garvin & Steve Regal vs. Scott Hall & Curt Hennig (11/14/85) 1234

143 Michael Hayes & Buddy Roberts vs. High Flyers (5/23/85) 1231

144 Nick Bockwinkel vs. Pat O'Connor (3/22/81) 1203

145 Wahoo McDaniel vs. Manny Fernandez (7/6/88) 1106

146 Adrian Adonis vs. Hulk Hogan (10/17/82) 1074

147 Sherri Martel vs. Debbie the Killer Tomato (7/26/86) 841

148 Wahoo McDaniel & Tom Zenk vs. Manny Fernandez & Larry Zbyszko (2/7/89) 821

149 Michael Hayes & Buddy Roberts vs. Da Crusher & Baron Von Raschke (6/13/85) 773

150 Steve Regal vs. Buck Zumhofe (11/28/85) 530

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Cool stuff.  I didn't watch for this but will probably get this eventually since it seems a lot of the high ranking matches aren't online.  40 ballots strikes me as quite a success given the problems with the forum.

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Cool stuff.  I didn't watch for this but will probably get this eventually since it seems a lot of the high ranking matches aren't online.  40 ballots strikes me as quite a success given the problems with the forum.

Yeah, 45 ballots has been about the norm for the last three sets. It was a solid turnout.
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You guys crushed it with this podcast. The four of you had a great chemistry (although I'd be lying if I said I didn't miss Phil) and I could have honestly listened to another hour of y'all shooting the shit about AWA. It was a lot of fun and I don't think Will said "Fuck this match" even once. I of course got a kick out of my one explicit shout out for a Doug Somers set, which would be awesome, and also for the comment "I think someone had that match #1" in regards to Martel/Saito, which was me and I'm ecstatic it made the top 25. In the end 13 of my top 25 made it into the official top 25, which might not seem like a lot but with a set this contentious I'm pretty happy with. The only match i'm a little bummed about is Saito/Hennig at #53... I had that one at #18, and was my second favorite Saito match on the set. And as the podcast said, the more Saito in the top spots, the better.

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There were some questions that didn't get addressed during the podcast that I wanted to repost here for greater exposure:

 

Person1

* Was there a Ted DiBiase of this set? (Someone who did a lot of high-quality work but also had a ton of matches where they phoned it in?)
* Do we have to re-evaluate Greg Gagne’s reputation as a poor wrestler?
* Was DeBeers better than his matches on this set would have you believe (i.e. competent, could be carried, occasionally good) or worse?
* Now that you’ve seen Brody sell like a champ for Blackwell, can the healing begin and the Brody hate stop?
 
Person2
* Heel in peril sections: was this something distinctly AWA and why did it originate? Did it affect the viewing of the podcast members one way or another?
* How losing the boards changed the voting results for this set, not so much in terms of the amount of ballots but if we're seeing less "hive mind" voting?
* Rose, Somers & Sherri: just how awesome this trio was, how they came to be put together, where they rank all-time among heel tag teams, whether or not they could have made any halfway decent blowjob tag into superstars during their run together. Can we get a Doug Somers set from Will??
* Is Verne Gagne a shithead?
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* Was there a Ted DiBiase of this set? (Someone who did a lot of high-quality work but also had a ton of matches where they phoned it in?)

 

I got the feeling I was alone in this when I talked about it on PWO, but for me that guy on this set is Hennig. He had flashes of stuff where he looked great, especially the match with Hansen or any time he really had to bring it for a FIGHT. If it wasn't a really heated match though, I felt he was content to just lay in his holds when in control and not really do much from underneath either.

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* Was there a Ted DiBiase of this set? (Someone who did a lot of high-quality work but also had a ton of matches where they phoned it in?)

 

I got the feeling I was alone in this when I talked about it on PWO, but for me that guy on this set is Hennig. He had flashes of stuff where he looked great, especially the match with Hansen or any time he really had to bring it for a FIGHT. If it wasn't a really heated match though, I felt he was content to just lay in his holds when in control and not really do much from underneath either.

 

You have people like Mad Dog Vachon who was all over the place in the rankings in a single year:

 

19. Crusher Blackwell vs. Mad Dog Vachon (Algerian Death Match) (5/22/83) = 4536 points
31. Crusher Blackwell & Sheik Adnan Kaissey vs. Baron Von Raschke & Mad Dog Vachon (Taped Fist Match) (3/13/83) = 4268 points
97. Nick Bockwinkel vs. Mad Dog Vachon (11/24/83) = 2386 points
83. Crusher Blackwell & Sheik Adnan Kaissey vs. Verne Gagne & Mad Dog Vachon (4/24/83) = 2750 points
137. Ken Patera & Jesse Ventura vs. Hulk Hogan & Mad Dog Vachon (1/16/83) = 1560 points
 
But you could say similar things about other people who had both top twenty and bottom twenty entries like Crusher Blackwell, Curt Hennig, Ken Patera, Nick Bockwinkel and Wahoo McDaniel.
 
Obviously the more matches you get on a set, the more likely you're going to fare poorly at some point - so I'm not sure our impression of people like Nick Bockwinkel (38 appearances) or Curt Hennig (27 appearances) can be easily contrasted with people like Baron Von Raschke (3 matches), Sgt. Slaughter (8 matches) or Jimmy Snuka (4 matches) because we're just not getting a complete picture.  I'd love to hear what nominators thought in terms of this question.
 
All caveats aside, I did also think Curt Hennig might be a candidate for this because there were several periods where he had really highly ranked matches and not-so-highly ranked matches in the same year. 
 
The other person who might contend for the concept (though I would never consider a worker like Ted DiBiase) would be Larry Zbyszko in 1986/1987 - his five singles matches have such a spread.  
 
32. Nick Bockwinkel vs. Larry Zbyszko (7/11/87) = 4220 points
70. Nick Bockwinkel vs. Larry Zbyszko (11/27/86) = 3168 points
79. Nick Bockwinkel vs. Larry Zbyszko (2/23/86) = 2810 points
104. Greg Gagne vs. Larry Zbyszko (July 1987) = 2265 points
140. Larry Zbyszko vs. Ray Stevens (5/30/87) = 1413 points
 
 
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As promised - closest to the pin stats!

 

Four Ballots that were closest to the groupthink

o soup23 (closest)

o Masters423

o Childs

o Phil Schenider

 

Four Ballots that were most different from the group

o dave musgrave

o ironmikesharpe

o Stunning Grover

o Cowboy Wally

o Nomad (furthest)

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As promised - closest to the pin stats!

 

Four Ballots that were closest to the groupthink

o soup23 (closest)

o Masters423

o Childs

o Phil Schenider

 

Four Ballots that were most different from the group

o dave musgrave

o ironmikesharpe

o Stunning Grover

o Cowboy Wally

o Nomad (furthest)

 

Do I win anything? :P

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As promised - closest to the pin stats!

 

Four Ballots that were closest to the groupthink

o soup23 (closest)

o Masters423

o Childs

o Phil Schenider

 

Four Ballots that were most different from the group

o dave musgrave

o ironmikesharpe

o Stunning Grover

o Cowboy Wally

o Nomad (furthest)

 

Do I win anything? :P

 

 

We bought you an award but hid it in the last place that anyone from the board would normally expect to find such a thing. You, being the rebel, should have no problem finding it. 

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Despite this being the fourth set I've taken part in, it is the first I've actually completed a ballot for and I'm glad I did. The entire process was a blast, and I really loved having those wrestling party podcasts to listen to during my re-watch to motivate me to finalize my ballot.

 

Looking through the detailed stats that Chris put together is so much fun -- the Blackwell vs. Robinson match from 12/3/81 that someone had as #7 and someone else had as #150. That wide range of opinion is fantastic and part of what makes this entire process great.

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