2023 Non-Event General MMA Talk Thread

[Elsalvajeloco]

Okay, looking at Tygart's comments, yeah it looks like UFC going to be doing their own testing in addition to what's already in place with the commissions.

[Elsalvajeloco]

[twiztor]

wow, big news about USADA. it is sadly not surprising at all that the ufc picked Conor over their longtime PED testing group. i'm no usada stan, but wtf.

USADA: we gave you one exception. ONE. and you fucked it up with Brock Lesnar at ufc200. now you want us to do it again with Conor, who has put on A LOT of muscle mass. yeah, we'll pass on that.

ufc: fuck you, we'll make a shit ton of money if conor fights. so he's fighting.

[Elsalvajeloco]

Cross posting: Rumors are no longer rumors. Showtime has cancelled all combat sports on the channel (boxing and MMA) effective the end of 2023, which means Showtime Boxing comes to an end after 37 years on the channel. It also means the end of ShoBox, which also greatly saddens me. This definitely means that if Bellator is purchased and doesn't cease operations entirely, the buyer will need to look for a TV deal.

[twiztor]

2 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Cross posting: Rumors are no longer rumors. Showtime has cancelled all combat sports on the channel (boxing and MMA) effective the end of 2023, which means Showtime Boxing comes to an end after 37 years on the channel. It also means the end of ShoBox, which also greatly saddens me. This definitely means that if Bellator is purchased and doesn't cease operations entirely, the buyer will need to look for a TV deal.

big loss for boxing, especially after the demise of HBO Boxing a few years ago. 

Interesting that Bellator is officially homeless at the end of the year too. Doubly so with PFL's ESPN contact ending at the end of the year. if the seemingly inevitable rumors are true, i wonder if having both brands could lead to a stronger TV deal? honestly, i don't think i like prospects for the landscape of MMA promotions here in the US next year (excluding the UFC obviously). PFL has never caught on to any level, and Bellator has been around a long time but that has never generated big ratings, sales, or interest with the general public. But they should have a hell of a video library (Bellator has hosted 300+ events since 2008, WSOF/PFL has around 100 since 2012), so theoretically it could be leveraged into a live program + highlights/hype combo deal. i think outside of a WWE Network/UFC Fight Pass kind of deal, streaming services really don't hold much clout for sports, so that's probably not a first line ask.

i mostly feel bad for the Bellator fighters still under contract and just left out to hang in limbo. there's no events announced past Bellator 302 in mid-November. just sucks to not know what the future holds.

[Elsalvajeloco]

59 minutes ago, twiztor said:

big loss for boxing, especially after the demise of HBO Boxing a few years ago. 

Interesting that Bellator is officially homeless at the end of the year too. Doubly so with PFL's ESPN contact ending at the end of the year. if the seemingly inevitable rumors are true, i wonder if having both brands could lead to a stronger TV deal? honestly, i don't think i like prospects for the landscape of MMA promotions here in the US next year (excluding the UFC obviously). PFL has never caught on to any level, and Bellator has been around a long time but that has never generated big ratings, sales, or interest with the general public. But they should have a hell of a video library (Bellator has hosted 300+ events since 2008, WSOF/PFL has around 100 since 2012), so theoretically it could be leveraged into a live program + highlights/hype combo deal. i think outside of a WWE Network/UFC Fight Pass kind of deal, streaming services really don't hold much clout for sports, so that's probably not a first line ask.

i mostly feel bad for the Bellator fighters still under contract and just left out to hang in limbo. there's no events announced past Bellator 302 in mid-November. just sucks to not know what the future holds.

I think the death knell for Bellator (at least this iteration if it continues on in some form or fashion) is that CBS show being a stinker. Call it confirmation bias, but if the sports division was that supportive of Bellator, the show would have been hyped better going in with a much better card and main event. It felt that Bellator saw the end was coming and it being a matter of when and not if, which would explain the mediocre effort.

I thought the move back to Showtime did provide a little boost, but it felt like more of the same most of the time. They have always done tournaments so it wasn't that much of an incentive to get people watching.

Just like HBO dumping boxing, it looks like combat sports is casualty of live sports (specifically "niche" sports) being the easiest to offload to free up cash for other big projects.

[The Natural]

Big breaking news on Facebook. Dana White says Sergei Pavlovich vs. Tom Aspinall for Interim UFC Heavyweight Championship. Main event is Jiri Prochazka vs. Alex Pereira for the UFC Light Heavyweight Championship at UFC 295, MSG.

[The Natural]

3 hours ago, The Natural said:

Big breaking news on Facebook. Dana White says Sergei Pavlovich vs. Tom Aspinall for Interim UFC Heavyweight Championship. Main event is Jiri Prochazka vs. Alex Pereira for the UFC Light Heavyweight Championship at UFC 295, MSG.

Torn pectoral muscle:

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cyz1xvxLmXp/

[twiztor]

big OOOF at jones being injured and the miocic fight being off. that SUCKS

[The Natural]

27 minutes ago, twiztor said:

big OOOF at jones being injured and the miocic fight being off. that SUCKS

Apart from the new main event, Jiri Prochazka vs. Alex Pereira which is probably the fight I've most looked forward to this year, and the co main event of Sergei Pavlovich vs. Tom Aspinall (still wish it was Jon Jones vs. Stipe Miocic), this is one weak card as November 2023 marks 30 years of the UFC plus it's in MSG.

[The Natural]

Granted I'm no Jon Jones fan but I can see him calling it quits, go out as UFC Heavyweight Champion beating Ciryl Gane in May this year than come back and lose. That was his best performance in ages considering he hadn't looked good in his last few fights at Light Heavyweight. Thought Alexander Gustafsson in their first fight, Thiago Santos and Dominick Reyes all beat him especially Reyes. Feel for Reyes who has lost his last three since in a row, all by KO. Through Jones' stupidity with failed tests and legal troubles, he's lost years inside the Octagon. Injuries part of the game. Might Stipe Miocic retire as well?

Edited October 25, 2023 by The Natural

[Elsalvajeloco]

Although Stipe has been basically semi retired the last three years anyway, why would either guy officially retire just cause a fight doesn't come together one time? That makes no sense especially if you took it this far. I think Stipe is only willing to fight Jon and that's it. When Jon is healthy, they will make the fight again if possible.

As for the card, it may be disappointing that fight fell through but the real fight was the co-main to begin with. That's why they added it as the co feature. IMO I mean how many folks were honestly giving Stipe a real shot at this stage of his career and advanced age? The two guys in the interim HW title match may have given Jon a better fight. Stipe is just a name at this point.

[twiztor]

2 hours ago, The Natural said:

Granted I'm no Jon Jones fan but I can see him calling it quits, go out as UFC Heavyweight Champion beating Ciryl Gane in May this year than come back and lose. That was his best performance in ages considering he hadn't looked good in his last few fights at Light Heavyweight. Thought Alexander Gustafsson in their first fight, Thiago Santos and Dominick Reyes all beat him especially Reyes. Feel for Reyes who has lost his last three since in a row, all by KO. Through Jones' stupidity with failed tests and legal troubles, he's lost years inside the Octagon. Injuries part of the game. Might Stipe Miocic retire as well?

i think you'd be surprised if you rewatched Jones/Gus I. I remember scoring it for Jones but thought it was really close. On rewatch, it was a damn good fight, but Gus definitely didn't win.

1 hour ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Although Stipe has been basically semi retired the last three years anyway, why would either guy officially retire just cause a fight doesn't come together one time? That makes no sense especially if you took it this far. I think Stipe is only willing to fight Jon and that's it. When Jon is healthy, they will make the fight again if possible.

As for the card, it may be disappointing that fight fell through but the real fight was the co-main to begin with. That's why they added it as the co feature. IMO I mean how many folks were honestly giving Stipe a real shot at this stage of his career and advanced age? The two guys in the interim HW title match may have given Jon a better fight. Stipe is just a name at this point.

yeah 295 is now looking awfully weak outside of the top. Would be a hard sell if PPV buys still meant anything. 

i think Stipe will soft retire. Like, he won't announce that he's retired, he just won't fight again since nothing will materialize for him. Jones i think will try another comeback and maybe have a fight (if something high profile enough piques his interest) but i think he's pretty much done too. and yeah, Stipe obviously isn't the top contender that UFC is trying to present him as and i don't think many were giving him a chance anyway.

[Elsalvajeloco]

55 minutes ago, twiztor said:

yeah 295 is now looking awfully weak outside of the top. Would be a hard sell if PPV buys still meant anything. 

Most of the numbered cards have been pretty top heavy this whole year. I think it's probably a deliberate attempt to pad out some of the scant amount of ESPN cards and ESPN+ non "PPV" cards.

1 hour ago, twiztor said:

i think Stipe will soft retire. Like, he won't announce that he's retired, he just won't fight again since nothing will materialize for him. Jones i think will try another comeback and maybe have a fight (if something high profile enough piques his interest) but i think he's pretty much done too. and yeah, Stipe obviously isn't the top contender that UFC is trying to present him as and i don't think many were giving him a chance anyway.

I think eventually something always rolls around. Even if the winner of Jiri/Pereira has to move up, that would be a bankable fight. If one of the younger HWs that hasn't gotten a crack at the title cause the division has basically been on hold for five years does breakthrough, that becomes a sellable fight IMO. 

[The Natural]

3 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Although Stipe has been basically semi retired the last three years anyway, why would either guy officially retire just cause a fight doesn't come together one time? That makes no sense especially if you took it this far. I think Stipe is only willing to fight Jon and that's it. When Jon is healthy, they will make the fight again if possible.

As for the card, it may be disappointing that fight fell through but the real fight was the co-main to begin with. That's why they added it as the co feature. IMO I mean how many folks were honestly giving Stipe a real shot at this stage of his career and advanced age? The two guys in the interim HW title match may have given Jon a better fight. Stipe is just a name at this point.

 

1 hour ago, twiztor said:

i think you'd be surprised if you rewatched Jones/Gus I. I remember scoring it for Jones but thought it was really close. On rewatch, it was a damn good fight, but Gus definitely didn't win.

yeah 295 is now looking awfully weak outside of the top. Would be a hard sell if PPV buys still meant anything. 

i think Stipe will soft retire. Like, he won't announce that he's retired, he just won't fight again since nothing will materialize for him. Jones i think will try another comeback and maybe have a fight (if something high profile enough piques his interest) but i think he's pretty much done too. and yeah, Stipe obviously isn't the top contender that UFC is trying to present him as and i don't think many were giving him a chance anyway.

I tend not to watch classic fights back incase if they don't hold up whereas I do with wrestling. Jones/Gus 1 is in my top ten MMA fights ever.

This is a real disappointing line-up for UFC 295.

Third paragraph you said what I was trying to say to earlier to Elsalvajeloco but better, thank you.

Edited October 25, 2023 by The Natural

[The Natural]

1 hour ago, twiztor said:

i think you'd be surprised if you rewatched Jones/Gus I. I remember scoring it for Jones but thought it was really close. On rewatch, it was a damn good fight, but Gus definitely didn't win.

yeah 295 is now looking awfully weak outside of the top. Would be a hard sell if PPV buys still meant anything. 

i think Stipe will soft retire. Like, he won't announce that he's retired, he just won't fight again since nothing will materialize for him. Jones i think will try another comeback and maybe have a fight (if something high profile enough piques his interest) but i think he's pretty much done too. and yeah, Stipe obviously isn't the top contender that UFC is trying to present him as and i don't think many were giving him a chance anyway.

Just quoting you to say I wished you a Happy Birthday in said thread. Sorry I wasn't able to tag or embed your picture. Broken board.

[Elsalvajeloco]

Based on what I am seeing, it looks like whenever Jon heals up from the torn pec, Jon and Stipe are just going to fight on whatever date makes sense. It doesn't sound like anyone is about to retire at all. They sent Jon to Dr. Neal ElAttrache, who all the big name athletes go to. I believe of the UFC bunch, Jamahal Hill went to him for his achilles injury. So yeah, the plan is still do that fight.

[Elsalvajeloco]

Oh boy.

https://www.mmafighting.com/2023/11/2/23942754/first-major-ufc-financials-reveal-staggering-revenue-following-wwe-merger#:~:text=Now%2C the UFC's sole financial,sponsorship and consumer product licensing.

Yeah, based on these numbers I think they will be fine without Ngannou.

[The Natural]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wk3pkP9Qil4

Jiri Prochazka vs Glover Teixeira from UFC 275. In my top ten MMA fights ever. Such a shame we didn't get the rematch with Jiri injuring his shoulder.

[Elsalvajeloco]

[twiztor]

3 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

surprised that Julianna Pena isn't involved. not upset or anything, but after the Nunes fights i certainly expected her to get the shot.

[DreamBroken]

2 hours ago, twiztor said:

surprised that Julianna Pena isn't involved. not upset or anything, but after the Nunes fights i certainly expected her to get the shot.

Pena said she's injured and will fight the winner for the title, adding that she feels sorry for the fans for being "force fed this horrible fight" for the title now.

[Elsalvajeloco]

I do like the randomness of the UFC basically ignoring Mayra got suspended and the Holm win overturned into a No Contest cause she didn't report the ADHD medicine she was taking and consequently had an illegal substance she tested positive for. Very pre sport being regulated-ish.

 

[The Natural]

18 hours ago, twiztor said:

surprised that Julianna Pena isn't involved. not upset or anything, but after the Nunes fights i certainly expected her to get the shot.

 

15 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

I do like the randomness of the UFC basically ignoring Mayra got suspended and the Holm win overturned into a No Contest cause she didn't report the ADHD medicine she was taking and consequently had an illegal substance she tested positive for. Very pre sport being regulated-ish.

 

Those were the first two thoughts that came to my mind when I heard the fight announcement.

[The Natural]

Strickland vs. DDP at UFC 297, Volkanovski vs Topuria at UFC 298 and O'Malley vs. Chito at UFC 299.