2017 Non-Event General MMA Talk Thread

[Elsalvajeloco]

38 minutes ago, supremebve said:

If Floyd was 30 and not 40, I'd agree with you.  He's 40 and playing catch up with younger, hungrier fighters who are already much more advanced grapplers than him.  He is an elite athlete and has all of the financial advantages a fighter can have, but he's fighting against age.

That's essentially every fight after the Hatton fight really and that didn't stop him from winning.

38 minutes ago, supremebve said:

Everyone in the UFC (who will actually fight in the U.S. during their career, those Chinese dudes were only there because they were in China) can take him down and submit him.

That's some goalpost moving because those Chinese dudes (not the fighters who fought later on that card because they were actual solid prospects) are indicative of roughly 60% of the fighters who fight on the UFC prelims NOW. I'm not talking about 2007 going into 2008. I'm talking 2017 going into 2018. 

38 minutes ago, supremebve said:

He doesn't have the time it would take to make the strides he would need.    

We don't even have a fight for the dude and we're already talking how much time he has. We don't have what he would plan to accomplish or nothing. Everybody is assuming he's going to fight whomever but shit he (and Al Haymon to be fair) was/were clever enough to maneuver Floyd into fighting Conor on THEIR terms. Personally, I feel this is just a way to launch Zuffa boxing and help move along the TV contract talks. However, if this is legit, I see this as UFC basically trying to succeed where Bellator faltered at by having this biggest FA name you can find (because Floyd is the biggest name you're going to get), have him fight a few bums, and then let him lose to someone you value more.  The intrigue of Floyd fighting in MMA alone would do 1.5-2 million easy the first go round so he can fight a hot dog vendor. So when you say he ain't going to fight Houston Alexander...yeah because they're going to find someone worse than Houston Alexander.  The longer the UFC makes this charade last, the better it looks in the financial statements.

[supremebve]

6 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

That's essentially every fight after the Hatton fight really and that didn't stop him from winning.

He was fighting in a sport he's been practicing since he was in diapers.  Fighting MMA is different, especially the grappling part.

 

6 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

That's some goalpost moving because those Chinese dudes (not the fighters who fought later on that card because they were actual solid prospects) are indicative of roughly 60% of the fighters who fight on the UFC prelims NOW. I'm not talking about 2007 going into 2008. I'm talking 2017 going into 2018. 

I think the base level of skill is higher now than it was then.  Even if those fighters as a group are worse fighters than they were then, they'd be more prepared to take advantage of Floyd's inability to grapple than fighters coming up in 2007.  Seriously, the sport is finally old enough that most of these guys were probably training MMA as a discipline from a fairly young age.  They may suck at it, but they should still be able to outgrapple someone who just started grappling.  

 

12 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

We don't even have a fight for the dude and we're already talking how much time he has. We don't have what he would plan to accomplish or nothing. Everybody is assuming he's going to fight whomever but shit he (and Al Haymon to be fair) was/were clever enough to maneuver Floyd into fighting Conor on THEIR terms. Personally, I feel this is just a way to launch Zuffa boxing and help move along the TV contract talks. However, if this is legit, I see this as UFC basically trying to succeed where Bellator faltered at by having this biggest FA name you can find (because Floyd is the biggest name you're going to get), have fight a few bums, and then let him lose to someone you value more.  The intrigue of Floyd fighting in MMA alone would do 1.5-2 million easy the first go round so he can fight a hot dog vendor. So when you say he ain't going to fight Houston Alexander...yeah because they're going to find someone worse than Houston Alexander.  The longer the UFC makes this charade last, the better it looks in the financial statements.

I don't think Floyd fights MMA for anything less than the biggest fight possible.  

[Elsalvajeloco]

1 minute ago, supremebve said:

He was fighting in a sport he's been practicing since he was in diapers.  Fighting MMA is different, especially the grappling part.

A sport where it's much harder to fight as an old guy especially in the lower weight classes (see: Gonzalez, Roman). 

2 minutes ago, supremebve said:

I think the base level of skill is higher now than it was then.  Even if those fighters as a group are worse fighters than they were then, they'd be more prepared to take advantage of Floyd's inability to grapple than fighters coming up in 2007.  Seriously, the sport is finally old enough that most of these guys were probably training MMA as a discipline from a fairly young age.  They may suck at it, but they should still be able to outgrapple someone who just started grappling.  

We're watching people of a similarly athletic level fight each other, and I think that's why it's easy to overvalue fighters especially in a sport that evolves 4-5 years. However, it hasn't changed the skill level especially mid tier and lower is still not there. You know why? Because boxing's mid to lower tier isn't that high. Niche sports are always going have the people who barely qualify as athletes. Yes the Mexican journeyman from Sinaloa with a borderline .500 record is going to beat Joe Blow who isn't a boxer. Can he beat a Max Holloway or a Frankie Edgar? Yeah if he is a stubborn one who knows the tricks of the trade, but there is a good chance he loses just because there is a reason he is a journeyman. He didn't have a requisite athletic ability to make it higher than that. You see it all the time on boxing undercards where they bring in fighters from Kansas, Louisiana, West Virginia, dive bars in TJ, and all these locales where it's easily to amass a record. Those guys are on the same level as your average guy or girl on the Fight Pass and FS1 prelims. I'm not saying MMA or grappling itself is easy and anyone can do as much as the elite athlete is going to excel in times you would doubt they can succeed especially when the status of the sport isn't as protected as the NBA, NFL, and MLB. Yeah, there is a very good chance Floyd doesn't pick anything up especially since he spends most of time at the house, luxury trips, and at the roller rink/bowling alley. However, if someone has shown he still is in peak form in some way, I cannot readily dismiss him as an instant failure since I know 3/4 of the people who participate who couldn't shine his shoes in terms of athleticism.

19 minutes ago, supremebve said:

I don't think Floyd fights MMA for anything less than the biggest fight possible.  

or you can do the much smarter thing and make a fight that was the biggest fight possible into a fight that no one can ever reach in terms of PPV records boxing or MMA. Based on the white frat boy contingent, a Conor rematch in MMA would be the only thing close to the May/Pac fight if they make the boxing crowd believe Floyd has a chance the same way idiots thought Conor had a chance. Floyd and Al saw these dudes will buy ANYTHING if you sell it to them right. You drag this out and get everyone riled up. Then, hold the UFC hostage for more money. Boom, you make an ungodly amount of money.

[Elsalvajeloco]

Quote

“Exactly what I said is this: If I could make over a billion dollars before, I could do it again,” Mayweather said. “If I chose to get in the UFC and fight three fights or fight four fights and then fight Conor McGregor, I could make a billion dollars. Which I can. I could do it in three fights or even four fights — I could make a billion dollars. If I choose to get in the Octagon and fight.”

I wonder who just said that in this thread. 

Folks, I know Joanne the Scammer type shit when I see it. Floyd and Al are planning to fleece these folks for several hundred million. Haymon already did it w/ PBC.

[Guest Edwin]

3 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

ACB is like 5 or 6 free agents from having a roster comparable to what Bellator has, which is weird since Bellator had a bigger head start.

Yup...

 

[Elsalvajeloco]

 

3 hours ago, Edwin said:

Yup...

 

I wonder if Bellator is going to change stuff up with Spike rebranding at the Paramount Network because right now they need it. The product is cold and the one big thing they're hanging their hat on for the next year has very little to no buzz surrounding it. Even with the Strikeforce like entrances and video screens for some shows, it still feels like a second tier product.

[twiztor]

7 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

ACB is like 5 or 6 free agents from having a roster comparable to what Bellator has, which is weird since Bellator had a bigger head start.

is this ACB the Russian MMA league? because i just looked up their last few events and.....yeah, i'm gonna have to disagree. Zero name value. Most of their fighters don't even have wikipedia pages. I can't speak to the talent level, having never seen an ACB show, but as far as a 'roster comparable to Bellator' i don't see what you see.

[Elsalvajeloco]

1 minute ago, twiztor said:

 Most of their fighters don't even have wikipedia pages.

I don't think that the standard of which combat sports talent is evaluated on. 

1 minute ago, twiztor said:

 can't speak to the talent level, having never seen an ACB show

So yeah, you should probably watch the shows because that's how things are evaluated and not "I dunno what this is, but it's not that".  That's kinda bizarre.

6 minutes ago, twiztor said:

is this ACB the Russian MMA league?

So you could look up the results but not what the organization is? I don't think you invested a lot of effort into this.

 

 

[Guest Edwin]

1 hour ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

I wonder if Bellator is going to change stuff up with Spike rebranding at the Paramount Network because right now they need it. The product is cold and the one big thing they're hanging their hat on for the next year has very little to no buzz surrounding it. Even with the Strikeforce like entrances and video screens for some shows, it still feels like a second tier product.

Yeah, the ratings this year for the most part have been atrocious.

Even their last NYC PPV felt the same way.

I would love to catch ACB and KSW shows as they seem like orgs. I'd enjoy, but they're on on Saturday mornings or midday EST when football is on.

Here's a random question -- do you ever get bored of watching MMA or burnt out? I used to be a hardcore fan as I used to work for Tapology (covered JMMA, Latin American, Spanish and Italian MMA extensively on there for many years), but dealing with promoters and AC's wasn't easy, plus the pay was fair, but it required a lot of time put into it.

I got burnt out and now I just follow RIZIN which is must watch for me and the big UFC PPV cards like UFC 217 and I'll catch the occasional FN or FOX card if I'm at home and there's nothing else to watch or do around the house.

[twiztor]

36 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

So you could look up the results but not what the organization is? I don't think you invested a lot of effort into this.

this was me confirming we were talking about the same ACB. I had never heard of it until a week ago or whenever Amir Aliakbari signed with them.

Does ACB air on tv anywhere? Their website doesn't make any mention of television coverage. 

Has any ACB fighter beaten any fighters ranked in the top 15? Has any of them headlined a major card with worldwide appeal? 

I have nothing against the organization, but claiming that they're a step away from Bellator's roster is just ridiculous without backing that up somehow.

[Guest Edwin]

16 minutes ago, twiztor said:

Does ACB air on tv anywhere? Their website doesn't make any mention of television coverage.

FITE.

[Elsalvajeloco]

42 minutes ago, twiztor said:

this was me confirming we were talking about the same ACB. I had never heard of it until a week ago or whenever Amir Aliakbari signed with them.

Does ACB air on tv anywhere? Their website doesn't make any mention of television coverage. 

Has any ACB fighter beaten any fighters ranked in the top 15? Has any of them headlined a major card with worldwide appeal? 

I have nothing against the organization, but claiming that they're a step away from Bellator's roster is just ridiculous without backing that up somehow.

No talking about something you have no clue about is ridiculous. Just because you haven't heard of them doesn't mean shit. I have no idea what the fuck you're rambling about. None of that has anything to do with the actual roster, and you never seen the shows so it's pointless to discuss it with you. Go watch the shows, follow the product,  and then come back to me.  

47 minutes ago, Edwin said:

Yeah, the ratings this year for the most part have been atrocious.

Even their last NYC PPV felt the same way.

The death knell for the NYC show was Coker saying the MMA landscape was going to change. You can't do that with Sonnen vs. Silva as the headliner. He put too much on it.

47 minutes ago, Edwin said:

 

I would love to catch ACB and KSW shows as they seem like orgs. I'd enjoy, but they're on on Saturday mornings or midday EST when football is on.

Here's a random question -- do you ever get bored of watching MMA or burnt out? I used to be a hardcore fan as I used to work for Tapology (covered JMMA, Latin American, Spanish and Italian MMA extensively on there for many years), but dealing with promoters and AC's wasn't easy, plus the pay was fair, but it required a lot of time put into it.

I got burnt out and now I just follow RIZIN which is must watch for me and the big UFC PPV cards like UFC 217 and I'll catch the occasional FN or FOX card if I'm at home and there's nothing else to watch or do around the house.

Depends on the week because sometimes there will be like a Glory show and like one or two quality afternoon boxing cards from the UK on a Saturday. If there was like 2 or 3 consecutive weeks where the UFC had cards (which tends to happen a lot), the boxing/kickboxing will take priority over any outside MMA (meaning non UFC) I need to catch up on. That's why I use either Thursday or Friday. I just don't watch the Bellator shows from Italy, Ireland, or Israel flat out and barely watch the lower level Bellator shows. I will see the clips and that's enough. Right now, I can watch a lot more stuff from Europe and Asia because it seems like the Brazilian MMA orgs have exclusive content contracts with the channels over there. So if you don't catch the live pirated streams, then you're shit out of luck because they won't show up on Youtube. That sucks because now if someone shows up with a glossy record, you can't really determine if it' legit unless they fought in those organizations before those deals or one of the smaller regional companies that air on Combate every blue moon. Either that or you watch footage that looks like it's straight from a handheld camera in 1997 at a WWF or ECW house show.

As for Rizin and NYE, I'm probably going to do like I've done that last few years (or five to six years ago) and pick the fights I feel are worthy to watch a couple days after the fact.

[twiztor]

Please suggest some fighters to keep an eye on and/or fights to check out to experience this previously unheard of fighting org.

[supremebve]

8 hours ago, Edwin said:

Here's a random question -- do you ever get bored of watching MMA or burnt out? I used to be a hardcore fan as I used to work for Tapology (covered JMMA, Latin American, Spanish and Italian MMA extensively on there for many years), but dealing with promoters and AC's wasn't easy, plus the pay was fair, but it required a lot of time put into it.

I used to watch everything, but I just can't any more.  I would watch every UFC, Pride, Strikeforce, Dream, Sengoku, HDNet Fights, Bodog, IFL, and everything else.  I legit went about 10 years without missing a UFC event, and loved every second of it.  The sport still intrigues me, but I can't pretend like the surrounding bullshit isn't starting to get to me.  I honestly don't know how or why the UFC thinks that shitting on their champions is good business, but they keep doing it over and over again.  They continuously tell us how their best fighters are boring, not marketable, and I honestly think I'm less in love with the product.  Demetrious Johnson is awesome, Tyronn Woodley is the best welterweight in the world, not every fighter is going to be a blood and guts action fighter.  I still love the sport, but I'm so over the UFC's bullshit and it seems to be getting worse since they sold to WME.  

[Guest Edwin]

The rumor is Lombard is signing with KSW... Heard some stories about his pay during his UFC run and they're not good, but since he wanted to fight in the UFC to test himself, he stayed.

Frank Trigg will be doing commentary for RIZIN next week.

Seiichiro Ito had to pull out of his fight with Kai Asakura on the RIZIN NYE card. Kizaemon Saiga steps in as his replacement.

On the line of Marlon Sandro domestic violence @Elsalvajelocoposted about the other day -- Bob Sapp seems to have gone down that road. That seems to put an end to the talk of a retirement fight.

[Elsalvajeloco]

In my mind, Lombard could do fine in KSW but he seems like a perfect Rizin signing. Former Olympian and already fought in Japan before. He can move back and forth between WW and MW with no issues. Plus, I don't think the talent level outside the UFC in those two weight classes is such to where he wouldn't be instantly a top guy unless he got old fast.

10 hours ago, twiztor said:

Please suggest some fighters to keep an eye on and/or fights to check out to experience this previously unheard of fighting org.

You can start with ACB 51 since that was their first stateside show and has plenty of past and present UFC fighters (Terrion Ware just fought on the TUF Finale card). There are plenty of free full fights and full free shows on Youtube. 

Here is a link to the Bob Sapp story.

 

[Guest Edwin]

I'd love to see Lombard sign with RIZIN, but I think he benefits the most from signing with KSW.

KSW seems to have more money and is most likely willing to pay him more and he'll be able to fight better comp. than in RIZIN.

[Jiji]

Is there any way of watching old KSW shows or are they just on PPV and that's that? I spent a few hours last night watching some European and Asian MMA, trying to see what's out there for free and was really impressed that ACB, M-1, and Road FC seem to put everything up for free on different platforms. 

How is it KSW has better production values than UFC? 

[Guest Edwin]

7 minutes ago, Oyaji said:

Is there any way of watching old KSW shows or are they just on PPV and that's that? I spent a few hours last night watching some European and Asian MMA, trying to see what's out there for free and was really impressed that ACB, M-1, and Road FC seem to put everything up for free on different platforms. 

How is it KSW has better production values than UFC? 

There’s some KSW stuff up on YouTube.

Their production value is superior to the UFC’s because they are huge in Poland. They drew one of the biggest crowds in MMA history at one of their events this use.

I believe their events air on PPV in Poland and they get great PPV buys there.

They’re in talks with Anna Lewandowska, famous Polish Bayern Münich football player Robert Lewandowski’s wife so that should tell you how big they are in Poland.

ROAD FC is a great company. The matchmaker, Lili is awesome. She used to run mma-in-asia.com.

[Elsalvajeloco]

26 minutes ago, Edwin said:

I'd love to see Lombard sign with RIZIN, but I think he benefits the most from signing with KSW.

KSW seems to have more money and is most likely willing to pay him more and he'll be able to fight better comp. than in RIZIN.

Prob should be in the other thread but FWIW KSW has a show this Saturday if anyone wants to check it out.

20 minutes ago, Oyaji said:

Is there any way of watching old KSW shows or are they just on PPV and that's that? I spent a few hours last night watching some European and Asian MMA, trying to see what's out there for free and was really impressed that ACB, M-1, and Road FC seem to put everything up for free on different platforms. 

How is it KSW has better production values than UFC? 

It helps that KSW isn't running every week or every other week like the UFC. Plus, the folks at Zuffa decided long ago they wanted their show to be as bare bones as possible to give a more sports presentation. More importantly, at the time, they were losing money so it was necessary. However, the last ten years it's been voluntary and allows them to get the most people in the arena and get the most fights on a broadcast w/o wasting time. The person (Dana) who was championing that style is still there hence why it hasn't changed.

There was one KSW show I remember years back where a Brazilian fighter had a carnaval entrance with the rainhas w/ their headdresses and the music. It was only like the fourth or fifth fight on the card. Of course, someone also came out in a giant tank on the same card. That's why I'm not really excited by Bellator using video walls cribbed from mid 90s WWF. It's just guys walking to the cage like UFC except they have generic graphics behind them.

[Guest Edwin]

Forgot to mention — KSW is so big in Poland they even got a big name rapper called Popek Monster to fight on their cards, plus they have former strongman Mariuz Pudzianowski fighting on their cards.

KSW puts on freakshow fights with those guys as they’re big draws due to their background.

Popek is nuts. The guy got scarification on his face and tattoos on his eyes.

I remember their was talk about the UFC being interested in signing Mamed Khalidov, but he turned them down because he’s making more money with KSW than what they offered him.

[Elsalvajeloco]

1 hour ago, Edwin said:

Forgot to mention — KSW is so big in Poland they even got a big name rapper called Popek Monster to fight on their cards, plus they have former strongman Mariuz Pudzianowski fighting on their cards.

KSW puts on freakshow fights with those guys as they’re big draws due to their background.

Popek is nuts. The guy got scarification on his face and tattoos on his eyes.

I remember their was talk about the UFC being interested in signing Mamed Khalidov, but he turned them down because he’s making more money with KSW than what they offered him.

Michal Materla was going to fight Marreta on the Cerrone-Till card but re-signed with KSW instead. That's why Marreta was moved to the Sao Paulo card.

[Elsalvajeloco]

 

[Guest Edwin]

Despite the loss to Ponzi, Platinum and Till are still pushing for the fight. I don't think Till stops him, but I do see him dominating him to a decision win.

[Elsalvajeloco]

I don't know if they want to do this, but I saw give Till a showcase opponent for the London card and get a Perry a rehab opponent on the Orlando card. Then, match them up in the late spring/early summer.