Hooker Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Turning Reigns heel and basically giving him the Lesnar push between now and Mania is so obvious and easy but they just won't do it. They think an endless midcard feud with Bray Wyatt is going to have people clamoring for Roman to be their hero. The way to make Reigns a babyface is to make him such a bad ass heel that people have no choice but to respect him. And not the Authority heel in a suit either. Just one man, on his own, destroying everyone in his path with violence and rage. You think the problem is they're not pushing the unstoppable action hero narrative hard enough? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie M. Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Turning Reigns heel and basically giving him the Lesnar push between now and Mania is so obvious and easy but they just won't do it. They think an endless midcard feud with Bray Wyatt is going to have people clamoring for Roman to be their hero. The way to make Reigns a babyface is to make him such a bad ass heel that people have no choice but to respect him. And not the Authority heel in a suit either. Just one man, on his own, destroying everyone in his path with violence and rage. You think the problem is they're not pushing the unstoppable action hero narrative hard enough? It's not being an action hero. It's being a bad ass. There's a difference. It's why everyone got so high on him in The Shield in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiji Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Even without the sufferin' succotash promos, people would've still rejected him. Brock Lesnar is a special entity. Roman Reigns is not Brock Lesnar and I think the fans would shit on him if they pushed him as a silent bad ass that rarely loses regardless if he's face or heel. I think most wrestling fans over the age of 13-15 are weary of supermen rasslers. Plus, it's easy getting "he's a badass!" vibe when you're a midcard act that isn't being overexposed on 5 hours of weekly TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie M. Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 So run with a heel who people are shitting on for a good six months and stick with it. What's the alternative? A meaningless Seth Rollins title reign that has accomplished absolutely nothing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiji Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 (edited) So run with a heel who people are shitting on for a good six months and stick with it. What's the alternative? A meaningless Seth Rollins title reign that has accomplished absolutely nothing? I would've stuck with Brock annihilating people. If the audience starts to turn him, have him destroy their favourites (Dean [that match would've made Ambrose], Ziggler, Bryan before his injury). Edit: for the months between visits to Suplex City, have the US title act as a makeshift main event title. Have Roman beat Cena for it and test the waters with Roman in that capacity before pushing him all the way. Shit, have him turn heel on Cena and then the neckbeards would get off his back. Edited August 12, 2015 by Oyaji Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie M. Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 I'm still not convinced the neckbeards being on his back is a bad thing. You just gotta pull their strings a bit and use that reaction. If Reigns is a heel getting all that heat, most casual fans won't know the difference when they're watching. They haven't really even tried it. They can't with Cena because he's in too deep with the kids. They can try with Reigns and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiji Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 I get that Cena has a bond with kids. But not only would that make his heel turn so, so much more awesome, don't you think the li'l ones would just hook on with the next babyface de jour? Just give them new, bright shirts every other week and a strong push. It's not like Cena represents something other than generic whitebread Americana/traditional babyface ideals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 What is the point of a John Cena heel turn? How do you make money off it? You kill your #1 merchandise seller for what exactly? He isn't going to suddenly get unified crowd reactions because the people booing him because they hate Super Cena are just going to turn around and immediately start cheering him the second he turns heel. Without buying a bunch of his t-shirts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eivion Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 You do realize that the current feud with Bray actually has seen Reigns getting more over with the audience? In what way? At the PPV, Bray was pretty much the babyface in the match. Don't confuse when Roman hangs out with Ambrose with Roman being over and liked. He got more cheers and boos & that was more the older male hardcores who go to ppvs which he is pretty much fucked there anyways at this point. On regular shows he is mostly cheered, and its not just the Ambrose factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiji Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 What is the point of a John Cena heel turn? How do you make money off it? You kill your #1 merchandise seller for what exactly? He isn't going to suddenly get unified crowd reactions because the people booing him because they hate Super Cena are just going to turn around and immediately start cheering him the second he turns heel. Without buying a bunch of his t-shirts. I was speaking hypothetically. It would make him an interesting character for the first time in I don't know how long and I'd love to see where they go with it and how he pulls it off. Cena's merchandise monopoly is so overblown by people. Punk outsold his merchandise for a short period of time without pandering to children and that's with stories of his merchandise being printed in limited quantities compared to Cena's (intentionally or not, who knows or cares). Haven't we heard stories just recently of wrestlers like Samoa Joe and Kevin Owens selling a tonne of t-shirts? Who's buying those shirts? Would those people buy heel Cena shirts? Would a Cena heel turn pop the TV ratings? Could you offset the money lost of merchandise by increased ad revenue/network subscriptions over a significant period of time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 No they don't get more money if their ratings go up, not unless they sustain them all the way until their next TV deal. USA gets all the sponsorship money now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiji Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 No they don't get more money if their ratings go up, not unless they sustain them all the way until their next TV deal. USA gets all the sponsorship money now. Wow, that's remarkable. Then I guess you'd look to Network subscriptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cole Miner Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Turning Cena is questionable but Cena was over with the people that boo him in a big way at one point. Very often he has them into him by the end of a great match. Its like they forget they are supposed to hate him right up until the bell rings at the end of the match. Meltzer was saying there is a big merchandise drop when he losses though. So it seems unlikely they would risk it unless they have someone strong in position to replace him. They typically just build heels up to that level now for some reason. Rollins as centerpiece of the show for so long is just an odd and surprising choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brysynner Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 So run with a heel who people are shitting on for a good six months and stick with it. What's the alternative? A meaningless Seth Rollins title reign that has accomplished absolutely nothing? Peoplet are still surprised that everything since Mania has been a holding pattern until the Rumble when Brock wins the belt and Reigns wins the Rumble Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turk128 Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Rollins getting the belt was the better move with the options they got. Brock holding the belt the entire time would just mean feeding the whole roster to a part timer. Or making up BS excuse not to feed said monster. With Rollins holding the belt, Brock's 'special attraction' quota isn't used up. Because the best monsters are the ones that have a frequency rating of very rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brysynner Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 I think a Reigns run as champion would have been better than what we have now with Rollins. Reigns vs. Big Show at Extreme Rules (Rollins cashes in after Reigns barely wins, Big Show accidentally costs Rollins the match) Reigns vs. Rollins at Payback (Reigns wins after Rollins tells the Authority to stay out of the match) Reigns vs. Ambrose vs. Rollins vs. Sheamus vs. Neville vs. King Barrett at Elimination Chamber (Ambrose has Reigns pinned but Rollins beats up Ambrose because he wants to pin Reigns. Reigns sill ends up winning the match) Reigns vs. Ambrose at Money in the Bank (Ambrose beats Rollins on RAW to get #1 contender spot) Reigns vs. Lesnar at Battleground (Same finish as Rollins/Lesnar) Reigns vs. Cena at SummerSlam (Have Cena comment on how he's upset that people think that Reigns is taking Cena's spot) At the same time I think WWE is building up Reigns to set up Reigns/Lesnar 2 at Mania 32. This time Vince is going to stick to his guns and have Reigns be the one to beat Lesnar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FluffSnackwell Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 If and when 'Taker gets his win back at Summerslam, I could easily see Lesnar winning the Royal Rumble but then pulling an HBK blowing off the Wrestlemania title shot to get his rubber match with 'Taker; however the mechanics of such bumblefuckery would even work I have no Earthly idea. It would be an end-around putting Lesnar in the title picture so Reigns could have his no fuss, no muss coronation. That's taking for granted neckbeards would back Reigns' play against Cena. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FluffSnackwell Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Other possible foolishness that has been set up by trends at the last couple of 'Manias.....Brock pulls a "two-fer" at WrestleMania. Brock only agrees do "what's best for business" by accepting his mandatory title shot at 'Mania if head jackwagon Triple H also grants him his chance to settle the score with 'Taker. To further heighten the drama, there will be a Championship Triple Threat match early in the show between Cena, Rollins and Reigns to determine Lesnar's opponent in the main event. This way Brock can finally put over Reigns cleanly for the belt with the caveat that he was already spent from his war with 'Taker. The most farfetched part of all of this will be that Brock has to struggle all the way through next year's WrestleMania just to finally dispatch of this geriatric necromancer motherfucker known as The Undertaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go2Sleep Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 If they want Reigns/Lesnar 2 next year, Roman should win the belt at Survivor Series and Brock should win the Rumble. Also, they need to dispose of Sheamus at some point so that there's a guarantee of no Mania 31 repeat. I'm not convinced at all that it's a given Brock is losing at Summer Slam either. He's on a new deal and should be protected way more than Taker. Taker's entrance and presence will always pop the crowd and get attention. He doesn't need a win here to stay over, and Brock's holding the biggest "rub card" in the company right now. Spending that on a guy who probably has less than 5 matches left in his career would be horrible even by "WWE blown opportunity" standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirSmUgly Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 They should be putting the gold on Reigns at Summerslam. Just go with it and have Lesnar win the Rumble, then have Reigns win at WM in the rematch. If they want to push the dude, push him already. No need to get cute about it. It's not like anyone gives a shit about Rollins anyway. Actually, what I'd do is have Ambrose beat Rollins and have Reigns beat Cena. You can build to Ambrose/Reigns at WM or let Lesnar destroy Ambrose (who would look stronger after a loss to Lesnar with his ability to sell a beating) at the Rumble and do Champ vs. Champ at WM. I think Reigns beating Cena and then beating Lesnar will get Reigns cemented as an elite-level talent the way they want him to be perceived as. /fantasy booking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eivion Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 That seems like a good waste of a future Wrestlemania/Summerslam main event (Cena/Reigns I mean). Reigns should win the belt at the RR while Brock wins the Rumble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirSmUgly Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 You could have done Cena/Reigns at SummerSlam for the U.S. Championship, which I think would be a fitting end to Cena's run, and run the rematch any time you want and it would be just as big. Just up the stakes and have it for the WWE Championship. Not a waste at all, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooker Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Turning Reigns heel and basically giving him the Lesnar push between now and Mania is so obvious and easy but they just won't do it. They think an endless midcard feud with Bray Wyatt is going to have people clamoring for Roman to be their hero. The way to make Reigns a babyface is to make him such a bad ass heel that people have no choice but to respect him. And not the Authority heel in a suit either. Just one man, on his own, destroying everyone in his path with violence and rage. You think the problem is they're not pushing the unstoppable action hero narrative hard enough? It's not being an action hero. It's being a bad ass. There's a difference. It's why everyone got so high on him in The Shield in the first place. I don't think "people," assuming that means the audience, were high on him during The Shield. They were high on The Shield, which was a faction that Rollins did the wrestling in and Ambrose did the talking in. That's like saying people were high on Ryback, and later Tarver, because The Nexus was a hot angle. Besides which, when has "bad ass" ever been a drawing act, outside of Austin (granted that he was the highest drawing act ever) and Goldberg? At least half the roster are badasses, but you go down the list of the greats and bad asses are far and few between. Hart (hard working perfectionist), Cena (squeaky-clean superhero), Hogan (squeaky-clean superhero), Flair (vain cheater), Sting (squeaky-clean superhero / silent mystical figure), Rhodes (everyman), Funk (maybe, although I would sooner call him a cartoon character), CM Punk (angry youth), The Rock (maybe, although arrogant jock fits way better), Mankind (insecure loser), Savage (maybe, but I don't even think you can classify Savage), Undertaker (sort-of, but that's clearly not the thrust of the character). I think you have to go all the way back to Sammartino, and now we're getting into territory drawing vs broad appeal. Even the ones that it does sort-of fit (Rock, Savage, Funk), it was a small aspect of a much better gimmick / character. Meanwhile, wrestling is littered with Diesels and Scott Steiners that audiences hate when they were on top. It's really hard to relate to a "bad ass," and Reigns clearly does not have the charisma to pull it off. Doubling down on it is such a terrible idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie M. Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Go back and read the threads here and the March Madness stuff. There are respected members of this board talking about how Reigns is the best guy in the Shield. When I say "bad ass," I mostly mean that even though he'd be a jerk heel who is an arrogant prick, he can still actually fight and fans believe he can win without cheating. There can be more to his character as it evolves. He obviously does have charisma and he's better than Diesel and Steiner in the ring during their runs as champs. Reigns might flop but going all-in on someone might also work. Instead of that they're just treading water with Seth as champion and going back to Undertaker to try and get people to care about their second biggest show of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooker Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Sure, there were lots of people here talking about how great Reigns is before the Shield broke up, but here and wrestling audiences are two very different things. The past month or so, Paul Heyman has come out and killed the crowds dead, and then DVDVRers came on here and gushed about what a great promo it was (and I say this as someone who fucking loves Heyman). If you're saying that people here were getting very keen on Reigns, I won't disagree with you. But I don't see how much that accounts for. WWE makes very little money on this forum. They need to win over the people who are going to boo the shit out of Reigns at Wrestlemania 32 and possibly whoever wins the Rumble, regardless of if it's Reigns or Lesnar, if they telegraph their plans clearly enough. EDIT: But I totally disagree with you on charisma. Heath Slater has 20 times the charisma of Roman Reigns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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