BloodyChamp

What a good basic question that I can’t believe I never asked. It’s so funny that the NWA and WCW acknowledged them so many times, and did a bunch of other lowkey stuff that was unheard of at the time. The WWF was better at timing though, when they dropped something it was a bomb not a firecracker. That’s ultimately 1 of the reason’s the WWF won the war.

I’m so glad to see that this site is still up lol! This was my go to for so many things back before the internet supplied information automatically with 1 click in 1 second.

More double posts than Flair chops in 1999

Dang I really goofed that up

I agree with the Jimmy Valiant comment. He is so underrated as an entertainer. I don’t agree with some of the stuff about Ric Flair. Ric’s prime was over by 1987. Yeah that’s right Flair/Sting, Flair/Steamboat and Flair/Luger wasn’t even prime Flair. I haven’t gotten around to seeing the older Flair/Steamboat matches but I have seen some of his older Japan stuff and older stuff vs Kerry Von Erich. Flair was totally smooth on the mat, did lots of reversals and moving around, and many more moves (not like 1000 like Chris Benoit but a bunch). His last prime years were sabotaged vs Dusty, Ronnie and old Harley. Then whenever people decide to look up an old Flair match to see what it was all about they go straight to Harley from Starrcade. Gah...that was worse than the Dusty matches tbh. Now the point of explaining all of that was not that Ric Flair fell off of some huge cliff in 1987. He was still really freaking good. He was just so good before that that he could afford to lose as many steps as he did to be as good as he was until...shit...1999. I talked about in the performances after 40 thread, that Goldberg match particularly. His matches being the same was true as he was as narrow minded near the end as he was limited but it didn’t help that he was booked for the same old shit week after week since 1987 either.

Is there a best beat downs ever thread somewhere? If not I don’t think it’s be a bad idea to move the goal posts in this thread since there are so many similarities between clobbering and beat downs. Here’s a darkhorse that has an argument for the best ever whether we like it or not IMO. https://youtu.be/VOLGJO_ZEBo

Every match from the only show ECW did in Tallahassee. There was so much more than the TV that came from that show. That was like a TV taping + an ECW Arena show in the same night. They went that hard and everybody wrestled. I also saw The Yellow Dog vs Stunning Steve (SCSA vs Pillman) time limit draw from Worldwide, which was the first time I’d ever seen the 3 count in the last 2 seconds remaining finish. That whole card was also stacked. It was the first block of competitive Worldwides after a stint of it being jobber TV.

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So that was the hot take. Down to the warm details I would have liked to have seen this. Scott pins Luger during the main event and the show goes off the air as Luger gets up furious, but not violent towards the Steiners. Sting and Ric are down exhausted and Scott is exhausted but still celebrating typical exhausted baby face style. Then as soon as the first TV show hits they announce that the match has been signed for Clash XV. Promote the heck out of it nonstop with Luger and Scott flexing their heel tendencies towards 1 another but never busting lose with them as Sting and Ric hang around but don’t interfere, occasionally commenting on backing their partner, gloves are off in the ring etc type talk. Then 2 weeks before Clash XV Sting and Ric can’t be polite anymore and start fighting on TV, which leads to Scott and Luger to break them up, while the announcers go omg they’ve been trying to keep Luger and Scott from killing each other now Luger and Scott are trying to keep them from killing each other etc etc etc and Luger and Scott manage to break them up and get them to the back. Next week they say Sting/Ric is signed. Have whoever they want Sting to feud with next attack both of them 10 minutes in. Go ahead and make it Nikita like had at Superbrawl, after Luger had beat him clean in a WCWSN main event or Omni show, ending that feud. Nikita’s justification next week on TV could be about the same as it was at Superbrawl, that he was just trying to ruin the party because he was mad lol! But anyway Luger and Scott make the save. Sting and Ric chase Nikita to the back which leaves Scott and Luger in the ring. The bell just rings and they start whaling on each other, and the match is on after this commercial break lol! This could have flew at GAB 91 also IMO. That’s changing alot of history I realize but it’s just a dream lol!

Here’s one that will sound like the same old crap, only until I explain further I hope. At Superbrawl 91 they should have had Scott pin Luger then Luger pin Scott in the singles match/rematch. That has been repeated by everybody ever since the wrestling forums were a thing. I won’t pretend it was my idea (something people have also repeated for years after they read it and thought it sounded good lol) but anyway that was just perfect. Now here’s the hot take. The tag team match should have been the Superbrawl main event. That match was an impossible dream match at the time. The adults wanted to see it and the children just wanted to comprehend it. Neither had seen anything like it except for the rare fans who watched both WCW and WWF and had saw Hogan/Warrior a year ago. Hogan/Warrior went on to overshadow it because it was turned to shit in the last minute of the match like every big match WCW ever promoted but it was that big and has remained that much of a favorite by the smarks and the people who grew up and rewatched all this stuff. Then when it was over there were so many easy ways to wrap it up and keep right on with the whole Sting/Luger/Steiners friendship story arch. You had the Hardliners messing with the Steiners which was how they originally reestablished the friendship if you remember. Flair could have been a part of it somehow, and it would have been better than that dumb stuff with Fujinami at the time. The NJPW connection could have still been utilized though. Sting was feuding with Muta over there and we all remember what the Steiners were doing over there at the time. So many possibilities.

TNA isn’t worth the dust off of a WCW master VHS tape, or the white crust off an ECW master tape. I haven’t collected a sample of the white crust myself for any tests before anybody asks but I don’t think it’s necessary. Idk...

I respect and love the shit outta those guys from the cokeheads to the steroid freaks. Now regarding this issue, my opinion isn’t quite as nice and sweet as the above statement. As a matter of fact, it’s basically socially unacceptable. The result is an epidemic of lies and denial. The truth just hurts to much and that’s how we handle it but here goes now that the disclaimer is up. Even wrestlers who admit the stuff about steroids have a “yeah but” attached to it. Dynamite Kid was like yeah I abused steroids but see the style I worked etc etc etc. Luger still tells that story about hurting his neck on the uncomfortable plain. Vickie still says Eddie died from his tough workout regime. I want to say somebody else close to him tried to say he choked on the toothbrush for a long time but I couldn’t find that just now to verify it. I swear I used to read that though. Speaking of Eddie’s, Van Halen was saying that he smoked but thinks he got cancer from keeping his spare pic in his mouth. And on and on down through society. I’m so sick of drugs. They get more free passes than Hulk Hogan and a main reason is because of our excuses.

The old standing ones? I know he still did the ones off the rope all the way until the end.

When was the last old school Frankensteiner done by the man himself Scott Steiner? And when was the last old school Frankensteiner done that wasn’t a botch? I’ve seen 2 Steiners matches from 1996 recently where he did it but it was botched, although it wasn’t his fault. One was the GAB 96 match vs Norton and Ice Train that I think everybody remembers botching bad. The other was a surprise for a few reasons. It was vs Sting and Luger on Wolrdwide. He busted it out on Sting, Rey Mysterio Jr like. He was standing flat footed and just bam with no wind up and no jogging start by Sting so he could roll through easier. That resulted in Sting botching it but that sure wasn’t because Scott didn’t nail it.

Freebirds and I hate it but the NWO for a year and a half. The Army of Darkness. And Sullivan’s Slaughterhouse ftw.

He probably had to use the bathroom. See when you get older...

Re WCW stuff Hogan had some moments in WCW before the NWO but he ultimately sucked. Add everything together and it was still pretty good. The cruiserweight matches, Savage, Sting, Pillman, Horsemen, and more. Some of it was resolved before BATB like Luger and Savage’s relationship (they made up when they were selected to represent WCW) and some of it was extended like the Sting and Luger tag team (they feuded with Hall and Nash). It wasn’t just dropped. That doesn’t mean there isn’t truth to the fact that it was better without Hogan. Look at the spring of 1999. He went down with the knee injury and low and behold it looked like they were going to actually fix the whole heap of shit. That obviously didn’t happen but it was better than it had been since the build towards Starrcade 97.

WCW was great...always. I mean dang we’re never not talking about it to this day. It’s a shame how it ended, and how as great as it was it never reached it’s potential most of the time. That’s what all the tweezer picked complaints we have about this match and that match and this decision and that decision boil down to.

Most Nitros had anywhere from 9,000 to 15,400 employees in the building. There were enough dumbasses under the roof to die for WCW let alone fight and win tbh.

I actually think WCW had the best bite on this. Obviously WCW was before social media the phenom but all that Yahoo, AOL, and dare I say the DVDVR was what blazed that trail. WCW would throw 1 hardball straight at the head of that snake every week then run the rest of their show as usual. Sometimes it hit and and sometimes it missed but it never made or broke anything.

I said my hot take about Luger on page 1 and have since posted alot but only in response to stuff. Here’s 1 that will make you...well...I don’t know what it’ll make you think lol but here goes. WCW always had the ballsiest, most original, and best ideas. They also had the worst problem of abandoning them at the first sign of trouble or backlash. That was the difference between them and the WWF, never the original idea. Here’s a short list of things that they either did or considered, that went down as alltime Wrestlecrap, that could have went down as alltime great. The Ric Flair heart attack angle - Flair deserved an Emmy for that. A dang movie star couldn’t have done it better. It was so perfectly timed to. For the last like year every Flair promo, the casuals would watch and be like, he’s going to have a heart attack 1 day. They should have revealed that he was poisoned then promoted it the same way the WWF promoted the Higher Power angle. It could have been that big of an angle. The Black Scorpion - we talked about this recently. It was a great idea until about halfway through when he started doing magic tricks. Brian Pillman The Loose Canon - I guess technically they didn’t abandon this idea but they probably would have and he would have been back in tiger striped tights getting cheated out of the TV Title on Worldwide if he’d have came back to work like he was supposed to. The Giant falling off a building - if he would have walked into that ring, chokeslammed Hogan, and won that match we all would have bought it. Those of us who wouldn’t have bought it would have f*cking loved it more than the people who bought it loved it. And no doubt they would have loved it.

I think alot of people forget he had 2 short hair haircuts between his long hair and his last haircut in his 50s. The first haircut in 1991 was some toadstool looking nonsense. When it grew back and little that’s how he kept it and that was ok. They pulled it off for a long time, even with the TV title. Prince Iaukea vs Savage for the title was epic, not really for the match but for the heat. It didn’t get much hotter than that for the last 10 minutes of a Monday night at the time. This is the main reason I’m responding to this post. I just figured I’d respond to the rest of it since I’m here. The NWO’s gimmick wasn’t to be cool during their good run. When they tried to make it their gimmick it was such a joke though. They first “took over” claiming to be mad at all the old people in WCW. Then in 1998ish they tried to act cool and people hated them for being old more than they ever hated a Ric Flair or Arn Anderson. Lies Not lies but not appropriate right under Midsouth is overrated

He’d have joined them and it would have been a much bigger blow than him leaving as Hardcore Champion lol ugh

Also 1 thing I left out about Dusty is that people rooted for him the way they rooted for SCSA. Sounds crazy now but it’s true. They had opposite looks but SCSA could have been the worst looking guy ever and people would have rooted for him because of his other qualities. Dusty is proof of that lol! The middle class working people loved SCSA and everything he did just like they did Dusty.

I always thought a postprime Brett Favre sort of gimmick would have been great in wrestling. Obviously a Brett Favre gimmick could mean many things lol but in this case I mean something like you mentioned with Peyton. For the last 3 years of Favre’s career people thought he could die every time he got hit. And by 2010 it wasn’t just a meme. People really thought he was going to die lol! This was flirted with in Foley’s last days but they never ran with it.