Wrestling Culture Podcast

[puropotsy]

A plug from my co-host Dylan Hales:

 

"Episode 44 of the Wrestling Culture Podcast! This time Dave Musgrave and I are joined by former LONG time WWE referee Jimmy Korderas. We discuss his recent book "The Three Count: My Life In ...Stripes As A WWE Referee," growing up as a wrestling fan in Toronto, how he broke into the business, some of the ins and outs of being an in ring performer who isn't really thought of as an in ring performer, the strengths of the current WWE product and tons more. Awesome show, with one of the nicest guys in the wrestling business."

 

http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/talkCast.jsp?masterId=112658&cmd=tc

[RazorbladeKiss87]

This show sounds pretty interesting. I've got it ready for my work commute over the next few days. I've been binging on back episodes and knocked off a few on a 12 hour road trip. The Flair/Funk/Lawler episode even managed to pull in my friend and my sister, two non-fans with only a casual (at best) knowledge of wrestling.

[TerjeRUN]

Often listened to this through PWO linking, highly recommended. 

[puropotsy]

Thanks for the feedback guys!

[puropotsy]

On Episode 45 of the Wrestling Culture Podcast, Dylan and I are joined by documentary filmmaker Michael Elliott to discuss his upcoming film "Jim Crockett Promotions: The Good Old Days". Mike has produced two previous documentaries on Jimmy Valiant and the NWA so he brings a lo of experience and just as much passion into this project. We talk at length about the territory, the process of making the film and the coup of being the first person to get an on-the-record interview with Jim Crockett Jr in the almost twenty-five years since he sold his business to Ted Turner. Please listen to the show and please support the film.

 

http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/talkCast.jsp?masterId=112658&cmd=tc

 

You can pre-order the Crockett documentary at:http://www.highspots.com/p/crockett-doc.html

 

You can buy Mike's two previous documentaries together at this link:http://ellbowproductions.weebly.com/ 

[puropotsy]

On Episode 46 of The Wrestling Culture podcast, Dylan and I talk about the career and legacy of Lex Luger. We talk about his under-rated in-ring abilities, his unheralded drawing power and all coulda-beens that shoulda-been in his career if he hadn't been booked by low-functioning monkeys. We love doing career rundowns and had a blast with this one so please give it a listen.

 

http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/talkCast.jsp?masterId=112658&cmd=tc

[TimWresPowr]

To me the Luger version of the Horsemen is unnecessarily shit on/ignored.  My opinion might change if I went back & watched it but having just come back from Mid-Atlantic Fanfest, this is fresh in my mind.  Year after year, the group speak/mindset at these conventions is that the Barry version of the Horsemen was by far the best and the Ole version is revered since it is the original.  The Luger version and all post-Barry versions are written off/not discussed as if they are unimportant and/or never should have happened.  Some of this has come from the guys themselves as Tully, Flair, and Ole have all written off the Luger version in Q&As at these things.  Sure Luger was green at the time and not as good a worker as he became a couple years later but I don't remember his Horsemen days being terrible or anything.

[TimWresPowr]

More thoughts listening to the Luger show.  I totally remember the Lee Scott squash, that was one of the few squashes I kept on the "permanent tape".  If I recall Lex may have been in street clothes and pinned him with one foot on him while holding the top rope.  Total dick move on all levels.

 

Regarding the post-Bash 1988 discussion, I haven't gone looking for attendance figures but I know the Luger/Flair rematches did tremendous business, even better than the Bashes in some/most cities.  The TV after that screw job pushed that all these cities were in the bidding for THE rematch.  They played it up as one and only one rematch.  Then your localized promos tried to sell it like your city was getting the match even though it was going around the horn.  The Lex/Flair matches on this tour were accompanied by the first run Midnights/Arn & Tully feud so that may have played a part too in the boosted attendance.  I'm guessing after Luger failed yet again to capture the title that by December's Starrcade fans were kinda burnt out on being screwed out of Lex winning the belt.

 

I went to one of the Bash 89 shows with Flair/Funk and Lex/Steamboat and Lex was bumping like crazy.  He was not completely carried by Steamboat and I know hindsight is 20/20 but I see that feud as one of the in-ring highlights of Lex's career.

 

Regarding going to WBF, I'm pretty sure there was a non-compete & this was their way around it.  I think at the time everyone tried to say with a straight face that he was retiring & going into bodybuilding but at the very least he was going to be presented as a cross over star between WWF & WBF programming & eventually was expected to wrestle again once the non-compete ran out.  Someone would need to take the time to find old Observers for the full details.

[puropotsy]

On Episode 47 of The Wrestling Culture podcast, Dylan and myself come down from our recent wrestling binge-watching to talk about it...before probably going right back to it. We talk about New Japan's G1 Tournament, WWE's Summerslam, Dave's live wrestling experiences this summer, Dylan watching every match to make video in 2013 and just general wrestling geekiness.. Please listen and enjoy.

 

http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/talkCast.jsp?masterId=112658&cmd=tc

[rainmakerrtv]

Just getting caught up and listening to this one, I have missed the past few C4 shows (lack of funds) but will be going to the next one , unfortunately am now somewhat dreading it. The crowd has gotten pretty bad but it has usually been restricted to one section and they usually don't make the charity shows. Sounds like it got out of control and the in ring action was pandering to that particular lowest common denominator. I'll still try to keep going to their shows but I am hating that it is getting ruined by these pinheads.

[puropotsy]

On Episode 49 of The Wrestling Culture podcast, Dylan and I are joined by David Bixenspan to discuss the 2013 Wrestling Observer Hall of Fame Ballot, especially the North American candidates. We speak at length about Mark Lewin, Brock Lesnar, and Mr. Wrestling II and of course since Dylan and I are on the line we talk about Ken Patera and debate about Edge. Please give it a listen.

 

http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/talkCast.jsp?masterId=112658&cmd=tc

[puropotsy]

In honor of the fiftieth episode of The Wrestling Culture podcast, Dylan and I run down our Top Fifty list of the best in-ring wrestlers of all time. We ended up recording it in two parts and had a great time with the conversation. Thanks to everyone who has listened to any or all of our first fifty episodes and here's to another fifty.

 

http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/talkCast.jsp?masterId=112658&cmd=tc

[MJKostka]

Great show. Surprised to see that you (Dylan) ranked Hansen ahead of Lawler. Not really disputing it and am pleased to hear Hansen getting that kind of love, but still surprised.

[DylanWaco]

When you break down the Hansen resume it's pretty insane.  I was very close to rating him over my beloved Funk.  

[TimWresPowr]

I've only listened to part 1 so far.  I was surprised to hear Greg Valentine's name.  He was a guy I could never get into.  I always kind of thought he was "important" based on his reputation etc. but honestly never cared too much for him myself.  I guess he never showed too much personality & moved so slow. 

 

I can't imagine doing a list like this myself though.  I had no problem comparing current workers & ranking them back when I was watching enough current stuff to do it but ranking historical people over the course of time is much harder.  It would be tough to focus just on work vs. drawing power/reputation/personality/importance in the business etc. and also eliminate personal biases.  But all that said, I fully plan to revisit this thread with a handful of people (probably mostly joshi girls) I would want to add to the discussion once I finish part 2.

[TimWresPowr]

Dylan, wondering your reasoning behind Austin not making your list?

 

So I listened to part 2 and wanted to throw some names out.  Still not sure if I want to make a top 50 myself but I'm considering it. 

 

 

Names I'm glad were acknowledged & discussed even though not on lists: Arn, Race, Pillman

 

Names I'm shocked didn't make either list: DiBiase, Toyota

 

Names I'd personally heavily consider for a list: Hase, Silver King, Otani, Kanemoto, Masato Tanaka, Ultimo Dragon, Dean Malenko, Great Sasuke, Chris Daniels, AJ Styles, Kaz Hayashi, Bestia Salvaje

I guess you can tell that I rank junior heavy/moves based stuff pretty high.

[DylanWaco]

Tim, thanks for the comments as always.  Otani and Kanemoto were on my list of 107 (which looking back should have included another forty or fifty names I whiffed on) .  I think Sasuke was too.  Ohtani came fairly close.  In his best year I thought he might have been the best wrestler in the world and that was at a point when the competition was really steep.  The problem I had with him is that I really only feel like he had two or three years as an excellent worker and then a lot of decent stuff around the margins.  Tajiri is not praised as much for many reasons, but I actually think he's a stronger career performer and in some ways I think his peak was even more impressive because of what he was working with (it doesn't hurt that I saw every match of his that made tape during his ECW run and he never had a bad one).  Kanemoto didn't have the highs of Ohtani but in a way reinvented himself more successfully and has had great matches even in recent years.  But there are a lot of guys with similar resumes to Kanemoto who didn't make my list.  The other guys you mentioned I wouldn't really consider, though that's not a knock on any of them (Tanaka will probably benefit when I go back and watch some FMW).  

 

DiBiase is a fine wrestler, but I personally don't like his pre-WWF work as much as I like the pre-WWF work of guys like Martel and Hennig and those two barely made the final product (Hennig would probably drop off on a second run, because Arn should have made the list for sure).  I know that's a debatable point and I didn't get the Mid-South Set (though I've seen all the highly touted Ted stuff from there) so maybe my opinion would change if I caught that.  In any case I don't want to shit on dead.  I think he's viable for any top fifty.  

 

Toyota....you aren't going to get much from me there.  I think she's overrated.  I haven't soured on her as much as I have soured on some other people over the years (Takada, Inoki, Koshinaka), but I could live without ever seeing her wrestle again.  I felt kind of bad about my list being light on Joshi, but she wasn't someone I even thought twice about.  Nakano, Kansai, Kudo, Nagayo, Asuka, Sato, hell even Kyoko Innoue are people I would rate above Toyota.  

 

On Austin, I'm not terribly high on his pre-WWE work and his WWE work is littered with down periods from injury or sports entertainment schtick that destroyed any chance of producing.  I don't think he was bad in WCW - he had some matches there I really liked - but I don't think he was a great worker or even close to it until 96.  I'd rate his best periods pretty high (96-98, 2001) and his best matches very high (last two Mania matches v. Rock, the two best matches with Bret, Over The Edge v. Foley), but I actually don't think he has a huge, meaty, resume.  

 

Finally, Valentine is one of the guys that has benefited the most in my eyes from the 80's projects and the explosion of available footage.  I used to find him pretty boring or bland, but now I think he's easily an all timer.  The available Wahoo stuff is awesome, he was probably no worse than Backlund's second best opponent (I think it's him and Patera for one/two), I love the Garvin feud, he's got little one off matches v. guys like Owen, Steamboat and Carlos Colon that are past his prime and I feel are outstanding matches, I have grown to love the Piper Dog Collar Match over the years, I felt he did a great job carrying the Dream Team who had some really underrated matches including a match with Tito/Steamer that would rate near the top of the best tag matches the WWF ever ran, I like the available Hogan match more than most and the Tito feud...my god the Tito feud.  Aside from Colon v. Hansen there is no feud from the 80's that has slipped through the cracks as much as that.  All time great feud, with several excellent matches.  Valentine was awesome.

[TimWresPowr]

I'd like to see comps of the Tito/Valentine and Colon/Hansen feuds after hearing you talk them up.

[BillThompson]

Listened to an ep of this yesterday, very enjoyable podcast. Unfortunately something is wrong with the podcast on iTunes as it won't let me subscribe to it, hopefully that gets fixed if new episodes come out.