NoFistsJustFlips

There were some good moments this week but the one word I would use to describe this episode was FILLER.

Thank you for posting this. I love odd freak show matches you never knew happened. This was like a reverse squash. Gonzales got literally no offense besides a choke & throw. Him doing a face turn at the end there is actually pretty intriguing. Had his health & interest in wrestling not started waning I wonder if Giant Gonzales could have been an attraction as a face in this era. There's no more Hogan. No more freak body guys because of the steroid trial. I could kind of see how he could fit in. You run your Brets & Shawns in the title matches. You run your Undertaker & Papa Shangos for the occult mystical stuff. Then you run Giant Gonzales vs a low card heel factory for some freak show squashes. At the very least you run him vs Yokozuna to give Yoko a babyface monster to slay. What other weird / freak show matches are out there? I definitely watched Zeus vs Abdullah The Butcher from WWC. That's the type of shit I'm looking for lol. The match was not good at all but I couldn't look away.

I can accept the pandemic as partial reasoning. But I think the bigger reasoning is house shows in general lack a purpose. Sure taking young kids to see WWE up close definitely serves a purpose. But in 2021 when we know nothing significant is going to happen on a house show, they're kind of irrelevant. Especially in this era of overly scripted WWE. You're not gonna get a random FTR vs Roode & Gable 45 minute banger anymore. You're gonna get the same 10-12 minute match in every town from every performer on the loop. House shows in smaller markets that don't get tv tapings are still viable. But a big MSG house show is just asking for apathy. How many New York City fans are casuals that don't know these are irrelevant shows? Not a whole hell of a lot. At this point 75% of the whole audience is at least semi smart to the online discourse in wrestling. In a big market like NYC it's probably 85-90%.

This is just one man's opinion, but I agree with everyone saying Inner Circle has run it's course. I also agree with the people saying Inner Circle doesn't have to break up. Because I'm playing both sides. (Its Always Sunny is the best lol). I think it would do PnP & Sammy a world of good to stop presenting them as Inner Circle members. You don't have to break up the group. Just phase out the Inner Circle mentions. Phase out the IC leather vests. They all already have their own music. The only way there has to be an on screen break up is if you have a good story for it with a purpose. Like if all along they had a lose backbone of an idea that Sammy has a fall from grace, snaps and turns on Jericho & takes The IC away from him then cool. But if you don't have a story in mind, just phase it out. Don't erase it. Let the characters stay friends. Hell even if PnP or Sammy turn heel, down the line Jericho can still do a run in to save them. They are boys. They're friends. But on screen they don't have to be stuck in one singular story. I really do love the presentation of Hook. But it's way too early for him to jump to no selling Rikishi Drivers. Taz wasn't doing the total no sell of Bam Bam Bigelow's offense in his second match. Then again Taz was built up with dominating wins for awhile (once he went from a beast of the forest or whatever to an MMA guy). This was match two for Hook. Wayyyyyy too fucking soon to A) let anyone get offense on him and B) him to be no selling a 350 pounder's Piledriver. I don't have anything against the trope in theory, but you need to build to it for it to make sense. Just jumping from stop 1 to step 13 was jarring. You take the Piledriver no sell out and I am fine with it. Replace the Piledriver with a different move that he doesnt sell if you must. Something lower on the totem pole, like a DDT or a Back Suplex would have been fine. I like Cody winning here. And I was very surprised they did a title change on a taped show and it hadn't gotten spoiled for me. Pretty surprising in 2021.

Love me an Iron Sheik gif but good god are you a negative Nancy in this thread lol. About half way through the thead I thought to myself like yeah maybe this guy should just turn off his Disney + and put something he enjoys on. Which I can only assume is either a compilation of puppy murders, or Brakkus matches. I put off watching this because the idea of a Hawkeye show didn't get me motivated. But I'll be damned if this isn't my favorite of the D+ shows so far. Glad I binged it too. I avoided all the weekly speculation that was wildly off lol. Yelana, Kingpin, pizza dog, Echo, even Hawkeye and Kate... everything landed for me in this one. Some light and goofy moments, killer action, engaging story. Lalo from Better Call Saul being a dapper sword wielding maniac. An owl swooping away with shrunken track suit thugs. Anyone who didn't like this show is just... wrong. I don't have any knowledge of the comics. I was never a comics guy. But I sure did buy the shit out of Marvel cards. I always liked the super hero art and creativity just not really into reading the comic books. So if this wildly differs from the source material, I could see that being annoying. But this was just note perfect to me for what I want out of these Disney shows. Florence Pugh is probably my favorite actor in the MCU now. Steals ever scene she;s in with that sarcasm and amazing comedic timing, even in serious scenes.

I didn't initially realize this myself, but saw it talked about in a video on Youtube. Every single big moment of the teenage years for MJ & Ned, Peter wasn't there. He was off doing Spiderman stuff. Like at the beginning of the movie they focus on a framed picture from home coming with Ned & MJ. Peter's not there. Because he left home coming to go fight The Vulture, so he wasn't there for their big picture. If you extrapolate that a little bit more I think this outcome is pretty plausible. Like if that same picture had MJ, Ned, & Peter taken one together they'd be like who the hell is this guy with us. But he was never there initially so there's less for them to question. He missed all the big documented moments. Sure if you wanna get super deep down the rabbit hole there would be pictures of them with him on their phones or whatever. But it's gonna be like weird who is this guy I took a picture with? I don't remember him. Me neither. Whatever some weird dude at a party I guess. Delete. All those New York Post covers and the cover of Time magazine had to have been erased by the spell too, so I assume any trace of him being revealed gets erased. Peter Parker was still born. Still has an ID and a social security card. But any trace or link to him being Spiderman was dusted away. Anyone that ever met Peter Parker has those interactions erased from memory as well. He exists but is basically starting over as if he was blipped into a timeline that he never existed in. It's not as convoluted as it seems. They just didn't waste the time to explain every aspect of it.

Hell of an episode this week. I really want this to be picked up as a full series going forward regardless of the outcome. But I sense there's going to be some kind of definitive closure for the Dexter character. (Either Harrison goes full on bad guy and kills him, or Kurt takes him out leading Harrison to take Kurt out). The New Blood series could live on without him as a living character, but only if they use Michael C Hall as the Harry for Harrison. Molly is as good as dead. If this season sticks to how a lot of the originals worked, she's going to find out the truth about Dexter. But right before she's able to get the word out or show her evidence she's going to get killed. And it's usually not by Dexter. I could see her finding out, Kurt getting her, her begging to get away by telling Kurt everything. Kurt kills her anyways. But now he knows everything and uses the knowledge of it against Dexter / Harrison. Really enjoying this season. The quality that was missing without Clyde Phillips is definitely back.

That Chicago Bear making a tackle and looking at The Steeler's bench... unsportsman like taunting. Tom Brady jogging to a coach on the opposite team and saying Go Fuck Yourself... totally fine, no penalty. Proof these taunting flags are bullshit and just there for the illusion of "cleaning up the game".

NFL contracts have guaranteed money. They may cut you before you get the entirety of the deal. But you still know the floor of what you will get no matter if they cut you or not. OBJ got released by The Browns. The Browns are still on the hook for a portion of his salary this year that was guaranteed because he went unclaimed on waivers. So not exactly the same there either. All I'm saying is making 11% of what they agreed to pay you sucks. And that there's no one here that can convince me that WWE is the baby face. Y'all know what Nick Kahn's annual salary is? $1.2 million. Plus a $5 million signing bonus. Plus $15 million in stock. You know what kind of severance the former VP they fired this year gets? $750k a month for an entire year. They treat their cooperate employees real well. So don't tell me they can't do better for the boys doing all the actual bumps.

All valid points and I agree with you. Owens and the Good Brothers are clearly on different levels. Just because Vince sees value in Owens today and likes him today, doesn't mean he always will. Vince loved Braun. Even wanted to program him with Taker at Mania out of the gate if the reports are true until he was talked out of it. And eventually whatever Vince liked about him didn't matter because he was deemed to not be worth the price tag anymore. That's what I'm railing against. Not beating the drum for The Good Brothers. Just trying to point out to the corporate sympathizes that beat the drum for WWE that WWE treats their guys like shit and you shouldn't "both sides" their terrible labor practices. But your take is entirely true here. I also want to mention how much is saddens me that standout big man on the indys Josh Briggs is now just a cowboy schlub. I'm sure his paychecks are better and shit. But man, as someone who enjoyed his work on the indys... bums me out.

Just for emphasis, while clearly not apples to apples, how many people here would be happy if their place of employment only paid them 11% of the hourly rate you agreed to? Say you get hired at $20 an hour and your employer pays you $2.20 an hour instead, you cool with that? I get that our view on it changes when the numbers get significantly higher. But boil it down to your own situation. You cool with making 11% of what you were offered?

It was reported they agreed to $800k a year deals. Thier original deals were $400k. So it doubled. But it's certainly not $4.3 mil they collected. They got roughly $530k. A large sum of money. But not the $4 millionover 5 years they signd for. It's about 11% of the total value they agreed to if my math is right.

This is like the scenario of NFL players where it boggles our mind how they lose their fortune. It's a cost of living thing. If you're banking on a 3 million a year five year contract (250k a month) you probably purchase a home for your family that far exceeds what you can afford without that 250k per month. So 3 extra months of money is fine and all but not when you expect that rate going forward to sustain the cost of your current living situation. What kind of mortgage and financial security can the majority of WWE workers feel comfortable purchasing? Any of them outside of a handful can get cut whenever with ONLY 3 more months of pay. You're thinking of it like current day you. Not the you that would be making $250k a month. You aren't gonna live in an $80,000 house if you make $3 million a year.

My wrists are looking real jacked baby so I'm good with all the extra typing lol. Only quoting this to answer The Good Brothers question, because it adds context to my first posts. WWE signed them at a higher rate because they were in a bidding war with AEW. AEW actively wanted them to debut (with AJ) on the first Dynamite and form the group with Jericho that became the Inner Circle on the debut Dynamite. They even verbally agreed with AEW before WWE gave them crazy high money and they decided to stay with WWE. So they screwed themselves out of financial security by taking the higher WWE offer. AEW wouldn't have cut them 8 months in. They'd have gotten the slightly lower salary for a full 5 years vs the higher rate for 11 months.

The Good Brothers say hello. They were giving significantly higher deals to stay and didn't make it 8 months into the 5 year deals. I'm not saying you're wrong about the likelihood of Owens staying the whole deal at all. I'm just saying we can't really predict the whims of a 75 year old sociopath lol. Owens will be there as long as Vince wakes up and wants him there. The day he wakes up and decides fuck this guy has too many grey hairs in his beard or whatever, he's gone. There's legitimately no logic to who stays and who goes beyond it's what Vince wants on any given day. AEW hasn't publicly come out and said this, but the company stance is they don't release people. The notable exceptions are extreme behavior issues (speaking out), or wanting out of your deal for personal reasons (ala Kylie Rae). They adhere to the contracts they agree to thus far. There's no specific guarantee. But you are able to breathe a sigh of relief that you are going to get all the money owed to you as long as you want to be there and you keep your nose clean. You may not get used if you fall out of favor for whatever reason. But you're not going to get cut on a whim because you won't shave your sideburns Mr Burns style. This part is non-sense. Owens changed his location on Twitter to Mt. Rushmore (the name of his group with The Young Bucks & Adan Cole in PWG). He changed his bio to almost there. He's friends with them and clearly he himself entertained the idea of it. Now maybe he did it only to drive up his own price. But your fake story narrative dies a quick death because Owens himself was actively the one who started that story. Congrats? Not sure what this has to do with pro wrestling, because this is a significantly more beneficial contract that WWE offers. They can fire you for anything at anytime at any point in the contract and you get 90 days of pay. As my example above with The Good Brothers demonstrates a 5 year contract amounted to 11 months of pay (counting the 90 day no compete) vs you would get paid the full 5 years even if fired after 8 months. So what does you liking your contract have to do with WWE contracts? I'm really asking because maybe I'm being obtuse and missing an obvious correlation.

Not much to add, that match was incredible. I was struck by the entrances. Danielson got a mild reaction. But then Hangman got a big time pop. Not sure why but I had been feeling the crowd has cooled off on him, but this was my ah-ha moment that Page does need a good run here to not sour the fans' good will. Speaking of the fans, I think that audience deserves some props (no not the dipshit with the lets go brandon deal). They sat through an hour long match and they were up and reacting to all of it. It elevated the match for me, just in the same way a bad crowd can detract from a match. Big sustained reactions and investment for an hour straight is A LOT to ask for from a modern American audience. So just think they deserve some credit here.

Hopefully this doesn't startle you too bad, but you're on a wrestling message board. We talk about wrestling here and the wrestlers that wrestle. Not a single person has said hey brother just got off the phone with my boy Steen and this is why he signed with WWE. Just people making conversation and guessing motivations. Nothing to get worked up about.

After seeing some ideas here it sparked an idea for me that I think might actually be a possibility. Everyone is talking about an eventual Kenny & The Bucks vs Undisputed Era civil war. What if the split happens way sooner, while Kenny is out? Hangman loses the title tonight (which will send him into a depression spin). And when The Bucks are getting their ass kicked by UE on like the TBS debut ,out of nowhere Hangman to the rescue. You run The Elite vs The Undisputed Era. Hangman gets his friends back and has a satisfying story to build himself back up. Kenny has a story when he comes back, either joining back up for a baby face Elite reunion to vanquish heel champ Danielson or being pissed that The Bucks chose Hangman over him and feuding with them. That's where I'm leaning. You do the shock title change clean as a sheet. Hangman spirals. Danielson gets attacked by someone during his celebration and he's off to a new story (Mox, Bray, forbidden door New Japan guy, ect). In a WWE setting Hangman getting got in his first defense would spell doom, but I have enough faith in AEW booking to make it a stop on a much longer journey. Either way they go, should be fun to see what's next.

Beyond the most important part (securing as much money as possible for his family), I can't help but remember the interview he gave about almost retiring completely before WWE came calling. His knees were shot then, to the point he couldn't do cardio anymore. I wouldn't be surprised if his thought process is the less demanding WWE style is also better for his long term health. Maybe his body is more beat up than he lets on, and wasn't looking forward to the higher expectations of the AEW in ring style. Hoping he got way over paid and was smart enough to demand the no cut clause. He strikes me as an extremely intelligent guy so I'd be shocked if he didn't get one.

I caught that too. He did say he wants to hurt everyone all the time... A lot of story progression this week. Where I think the story is leading to... The one annoyance I have with this season is the exact same annoyance I had when Deb found out about Dexter. There's all this info that you'd like them to bring up and discuss and they just ignore it all. Like Deb knew Dexter was the Bay Harbor Butcher. So she had to have suspected Dexter killed Doakes somehow. But they never talk about it. So she's just gotta be okay with assuming he killed their innocent coworker. That's out of character for her. There's all these things Harrison and Dexter should be talking about. Stuff Harrison has to have questions about. But they just don't ever talk about anything. He doesn't ask. And that's not very realistic to me. He knows his mom was killed by Trinity. He's never asked Dexter why. Even if Dexter wouldn't tell him the truth, in Harrison's shoes that's the first question I'd ask.

Just to add to that, until creative & the office start doing more than the bare minimum why should anyone on the roster? We're all here because we love pro wrestling. But pro wrestling is only at it's best when everyone involved is giving equal effort. Going the extra mile by taking big dumb bumps or beating the shit out of each other when you're feuding over pies in the face seems like asking for a lot to me. When creative starts taking shit serious, then the boys should. But until then, do what's asked of you. Don't do more for them than they're willing to do for you.

Perfect post. This demonstrates what I was trying to convey way better than I could. Love it. Thank you for being better at words than I will ever be lol. That's a disingenuous way to boil down what I said. I stand by what I said. So top rope moonsault = effort in your opinion? Because in my opinion doing a moonsault can be just as lazy and going through the motions as a rest hold. Trust me. I've used moonsaults as filler. Just because it's degree of difficulty is higher than a chin lock, doesn't mean just because you're doing one you're giving your all. Charlotte can sleepwalk through moonsaults I promise you. Same with Big E's splash. A splash is a splash is a splash, apron or not. I believe lazy ass King Kong Bundy did a shit load of them. We have a difference of opinion here. And that's okay. I do see guys putting in work. But I'm just saying no one is going that extra mile anymore. AJ Style is my favorite worker in WWE. You saying he's working just as hard as he was in 2016 & 2017? Aint no way my man. And why would he. Effort, skill, connecting with the audience, moving merch... none of it matters anymore. No one is allowed to go out and get themselves over. WWE is paint by numbers with the same 10 colors in a 64 million color world.

The way I took his post is that morale is so low that a lot of the roster is just going through the motions. Dolph Ziggler used to be one of the bright spots and a dude that went way above and beyond. Now he's just cashing a check, and trying to do just enough to keep those checks coming in. It's not something to get bent out of shape over. WWE's booking is bad. Really fucking bad. Even with all these releases, there's still a ton of good workers on the roster tho. Now whether they are allowed to showcase it or not is up for debate. It's obvious dudes like Ali & Ricochet are being purposely told to scale it back and not go all out. And if people commenting on that angers you, don't know what to tell ya.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say there's a good chance Meltzer misspoke here or got something mistaken. WWE has always put over that you need to give the guys an incentive to show up and work hard, and shit talked the WCW style straight salary to death. If they go to straight salary with no bonus income, it would piss in the face of the last 30 years of them beating their chests about their way being the right way. The downside guarantee is just a guarantee that you make at least X dollars, and it can't go lower than that (but could go higher). Even if they went to straight salary there is still a downside guarantee technically, it's just you get that X amount and no more / no less. So in semantics, yes it would no longer be a DOWNSIDE guarantee. Just a guarantee. I mean it's possible they go to straight salary as a way to squeeze more profit for themselves and less for the boys. But man would that be a huge deal. That would be the biggest philosophical change in the history of the company if true. No more incentive to work house shows or sell merch or do anything above the bare minimum.

He didn't get released. His contract expired, same as Gargano's. So there isn't a no compete. NXT contract's no competes are also only 30 days. You don't get bumped up to 90 days until you get the restructured main roster contract.